Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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December 9th, 2014 at 5:10:54 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

If you believe america torturing "terrorists" will save lives, is it really hard to fathom that these "terrorists" believe that torturing america soldiers will help save lives? Afterall were the terrorists in their eyes.



Again they do believe it, and they already are, so its a mute point.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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December 9th, 2014 at 5:43:03 PM permalink
Here is a video from TYT (not a group I usually like) but its an excellent interview with Sam Harris.

Sam Harris TYT Interview, location of torture discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU#t=9930


Sam Harris is extremely liberal and a secularist (he came to fame by controversially criticizing most mainstream religions, very popular amongst the "New Atheists" ). One of the last people who could be labelled a "NeoCon" or a "Christian Crusader", but he has a logical way of looking at the world and understands the morality of things most people are afraid to admit do to political correctness.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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December 9th, 2014 at 5:47:14 PM permalink
I'm not even going to read the posts
in this thread. None of what's happening
matters. Govt's under stress have always
tortured and always will, when needed.
They do it because it works. Always has,
always will.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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December 9th, 2014 at 5:47:50 PM permalink
My definition of torture:

Let Cheney or Bush administer the same treatment to their wives or a loved one. When they are ready to call it quits, anything beyond that point will be torture.

Anything before it is not torture and can be allowed.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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December 9th, 2014 at 5:54:47 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Here is a video from TYT (not a group I usually like) but its an excellent interview with Sam Harris.

Sam Harris TYT Interview, location of torture discussion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU#t=9930


Sam Harris is extremely liberal and a secularist (he came to fame by controversially criticizing most mainstream religions, very popular amongst the "New Atheists" ). One of the last people who could be labelled a "NeoCon" or a "Christian Crusader", but he has a logical way of looking at the world and understands the morality of things most people are afraid to admit do to political correctness.



How about listening to Republican John McCain.
He speaks from experience. John McCain knows torture
John McCain is the real deal. Combat pilot. American Hero. American Senator. Won the 2008 Republican nomination to run for President.
Against torture.
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Zcore13
Zcore13
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December 9th, 2014 at 5:55:48 PM permalink
I'm all for everything that was done. It helped get info on Bin Laden and I'm sure much more. Pretending this will cause others to do the same thing is ridiculous. They be ahead our citizens. They would prefer every American dead.

Terrorists should know there will be severe penalties for their actions.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
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December 9th, 2014 at 6:00:52 PM permalink
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2014/05/20/cheneys-confronted-about-imprisoned-torture-whistleblower-john-kiriakou/#.U3u4NEEH68D.twitter

This is from 6months ago. Dick Cheney just sits there in silence. The girl that asked the question is a journalist for thefreethoughtproject now.
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
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December 9th, 2014 at 6:00:58 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I'm not even going to read the posts
in this thread. None of what's happening
matters. Govt's under stress have always
tortured and always will, when needed.
They do it because it works. Always has,
always will.



One of the most sane posts here. Everybody here would be willing to torture when necessary even if they don't admit. The government's job is to take action for individuals.



Quote: rxwine

My definition of torture:

Let Cheney or Bush administer the same treatment to their wives or a loved one. When they are ready to call it quits, anything beyond that point will be torture.

Anything before it is not torture and can be allowed.



You have to understand, a lot of what people consider "torture", is wrong. The physically worst things we (Americans, allies) do is Sleep Deprivation and Waterboarding. Everything else is simply ways to make people uncomfortable. For example if I dip a Koran pig blood it would make a fundamentalist go insane. But there is no rational reason to feel that way, so that is just using a fundamentalists fundamentals against him to gain information from him. No sane person would call desecrating a Koran in front of somebody as torture.

By that logic we should not put people with fears of closed spaces in prison as that would be horrendous torture for them... Its just a crazy path to go down.

And the only people who get waterboarding and sleep deprivation are known terrorist. America does not just kidnap hundreds of Muslims in case they are guilty. This has been done to a handful of known high level terrorists, and for the most part I have no problem with this.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine
Twirdman
Twirdman
Joined: Jun 5, 2013
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December 9th, 2014 at 6:04:47 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I'm all for everything that was done. It helped get info on Bin Laden and I'm sure much more. Pretending this will cause others to do the same thing is ridiculous. They be ahead our citizens. They would prefer every American dead.

Terrorists should know there will be severe penalties for their actions.


ZCore13



Here is a report on the effect of torture in getting Bin Laden http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/09/369646177/torture-report-did-harsh-interrogations-help-catch-osama-bin-laden . Most of the information came before torture was used and of what was obtained after torture large portions of it were found to be fabricated leading us to waste time on wild goose chases.

Also where do we draw the line with what is acceptable? Torture including threatening of the family is acceptable so what about killing the family after all it could save American lives and that's all people seem to care about. So if we can kill them what about other people in the area who are unrelated I mean we could save many lives by saying screw a ground campaign and just carpet bombing the country after all.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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December 9th, 2014 at 6:10:02 PM permalink
Quote: Twirdman

Here is a report on the effect of torture in getting Bin Laden http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/09/369646177/torture-report-did-harsh-interrogations-help-catch-osama-bin-laden . Most of the information came before torture was used and of what was obtained after torture large portions of it were found to be fabricated leading us to waste time on wild goose chases.

Also where do we draw the line with what is acceptable? Torture including threatening of the family is acceptable so what about killing the family after all it could save American lives and that's all people seem to care about. So if we can kill them what about other people in the area who are unrelated I mean we could save many lives by saying screw a ground campaign and just carpet bombing the country after all.



You site one opinion. I've seen others. I'll stay with my opinion that it was needed with the situation at hand.

If family members of the terrorist in question are not part of it, do don't involve them, but you definitely threaten the terrorist to.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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