Obamacare
for her usual appointment and he gave her a form to fill
out first. It was asking all kinds of intrusive questions,
like her age, weight, blood pressure, drugs she takes,
education level, marriage status, all kinds of stuff. But
what really got her going were the race and religion
questions.
What race was she, what was her religious affiliation.
What was her ethnicity. In other words, if she put down
white for race, where were her 'people' from. Poland?
Russia? England? If Asian, are you Chinese, Vietmese,
etc. My wife works for an incurance company and they
can't ask any of these type of questions.
She gave the form back and said she wouldn't do it. Thats
when the nurse said it was an Obamacare form and she
has to fill it out, if she doesn't they can refuse to treat her.
So she did it, gritting her teeth. The doctor told her he can
get in big trouble if everybody doesn't fill out these forms.
He said its their way of tracking everybody, of getting every
person in the country into the 'system' and pigeonholing
them. He hates it, but what can he do.
Welcome to Socialism, and this is just the start.
I highly doubt that a form with those questions is a required federal government form for any kind of medical or chiropractic care. I think your wife should ask for a copy of her submitted form for her her own records and check for the OMB/HHS/other form number. If you could post that, it would give us more basis for a good conversation here.
Quote: DocI have never seen that form, so this post is strictly an uninformed opinion.
I highly doubt that a form with those questions is a required federal government form for any kind of medical or chiropractic care.
Yes, my wife was lying to me, thats what happened.
Thats why she was so pissed, it was a government
form asking questions that are supposed to be just
between her and her doctor. And what does a bone
crunching doctor need with all that info. Its because
he's included in Obamacare, thats why. My wife said
he was very upset and had lost a few patients already
because they refused to fill it out and went to find
another doctor.
This is a very touchy subject with a lot of people. Here's just
one comment from an article on race I was reading.
"I am personally so offended by the very question of "RACE/ETHNICITY" because it's roots were birthed in ignorance & produced discriminatory practices & segregation. EVERY time I'm questioned about the race of myself or my children (even those foreign born) I ALWAYS write in the MARGIN that I am refusing to answer the question on the basis that "WE ARE ALL OF ONE HUMAN RACE"--their?'s are ignorant & baseless except to keep us pigeonholed & to perpetuate the separateness that continues to divide us a people!"
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethnicity_vs_Race
One thing, though; ethnicity can be important in treatment.
Quote: MoscaI just filled out a form for a new doctor, and there were none of those questions. I believe the receptionist was lying about the form being required.
So this doctor, who my wife has been seeing for 15+
years, is lying about a new form he has patients filling
out. What could possibly be his motive. He told her
specifically that if he didn't get every patient to comply,
he would be penalized by the gov't. The forms were
mandatory, not optional. And he was real sick of explaining
it to people.
Quote: EvenBobYes, my wife was lying to me, thats what happened.
No, I am not suggesting that your wife was lying to you or that you are lying to the forum. I just highly doubt that this was really a required government form. Someone may even have supplied it to the chiropractor, saying that he needed to have his patients fill it out. But that doesn't make it a required government form. That's why I would be very interested in knowing the agency that provided the form and the form number.
Quote: EvenBobHe told her
specifically that if he didn't get every patient to comply,
he would be penalized by the gov't. The forms were
mandatory, not optional. And he was real sick of explaining
it to people.
It would still be useful to know WHAT government agency was "requiring" this and would be penalizing the chiropractor.
Quote: DocNo, I am not suggesting that your wife was lying to you or that you are lying to the forum. I just highly doubt that this was really a required government form. .
I just asked and the doctor said he got a whole
packet of stuff from Obamacare and the form
is just the first of many to come. He said if you
don't fill out the form he'll get paid a fraction of
what he gets paid if you do fill it out. Its so little
that he couldn't treat the patient for that small
an amount and would have to let them go. But
I'm sure he's lying, doctors love to spring practical
jokes on their patients.
Quote: EvenBobI just asked and the doctor said he got a whole
packet of stuff from Obamacare and the form
is just the first of many to come. He said if you
don't fill out the form he'll get paid a fraction of
what he gets paid if you do fill it out. Its so little
that he couldn't treat the patient for that small
an amount and would have to let them go. But
I'm sure he's lying, doctors love to spring practical
jokes on their patients.
I can absolutely believe the government is requiring collection of racial information. The US Government is fixated on collecting such info. Given how Obamacare was passed I would not be suprised if a motive is to sue someone, somewhere because "minorities are being discriminated against in medical care." Just watch!
Quote: FinsRuleI can guarantee you the government doesn't require you to state your religion in order for doctors to receive payment. I'm sure there is a "prefer not to state" option.
The religion question I don't know about. But
on the race and ethnicity, she was specifically
told those questions had to be answered, there
wasn't a leave it blank option. All doctors aren't
doing this yet, most are waiting till after the
election. None of this goes into effect till next
year. There was White, African American, Asian,
Native American, and Other. And then the ethnicity
question. None of this is allowed where my wife
works, they can't ask these questions and indeed,
cannot even mention race in any way while at work.
They had a problem a few months ago when a black
guy stole a delivery truck. When the police arrived,
they asked my wife for a description and she said
a tall guy with black hair and brown eyes. When
they asked his race, my wife said she couldn't say.
Later she asked HR if she did the right thing, and
they said she did it perfectly. I'm not joking.
The other health questions seem like things a doctor should know.
Quote: FinsRuleThe race question should have an answer that says "two or more races". If you ever felt like you didn't want to answer, you could always put that down.
If you were born here the correct answer should be "Native American," shouldn't it?
Quote: FinsRuleThe race question should have an answer that says "two or more races". If you ever felt like you didn't want to answer, you could always put that down.
The other health questions seem like things a doctor should know.
Is it 'race' or 'ethinicity'? One is quite different from the other... medially race might be useful (though for the areas where it'd be useful, genetic screening is becoming cheap enough to deal with it) while the 'ethinicity' tells you nothing about the biology of a person.
Quote: FinsRule
The other health questions seem like things a doctor should know.
But that form is going to the GOV'T, not your
doctor. He already has that info. Now the gov't
wants the health info that up to now was just
between you and your doctor. Starting to 'get it'?
How else can they decide who to discriminate
against? 320 pounds with high BP? We ain't paying
your bills, fatty.
Quote: thecesspitIs it 'race' or 'ethinicity'? One is quite different from the other... medially race might be useful (though for the areas where it'd be useful, genetic screening is becoming cheap enough to deal with it) while the 'ethinicity' tells you nothing about the biology of a person.
Its all about pigeon holing you. Obamacare is about
the gov't controlling us, getting info, keeping tabs on
us. What better way to do that than under the guise
of healthcare. And of course all gov't agencies share
info, so they all will have access to it.
I personally don't see the point to the martial status question that's on every single new patient form. Why should my dentist care if I'm married, single, divorced or widowed? Do divorced people have more, less, or different teeth than single people? If you are not married now does it matter that you might have been married before at one time, and if the marriage was dissolved does it matter in which way?
Quote: tsmith
I personally don't see the point to the martial status question that's on every single new patient form. Why should my dentist care if I'm married, single, divorced or widowed? Do divorced people have more, less, or different teeth than single people? If you are not married now does it matter that you might have been married before at one time, and if the marriage was dissolved does it matter in which way?
Marital status could possibly be relevant in case of an emergency where a life decision had to be made. This is a SWAG, but the only reason I can think of, but is a logical reason.
Quote: EvenBobI just asked and the doctor said he got a whole
packet of stuff from Obamacare and the form
is just the first of many to come.
Just exactly who is Obamacare? Are they a specific federal department or agency? To they number their forms? Which form requires that these questions be answered in order for the provider to be paid?
As for answering race/ethnicity questions that you feel are too intrusive, I think that "Don't know" or "Not sure" is a reasonable answer. Personally, I've only heard rumors from my parents and made guesses on my own -- surely they don't want official government forms filled out with rumors and guesses.
Quote: DocJust exactly who is Obamacare? Are they a specific federal department or agency? To they number their forms? Which form requires that these questions be answered in order for the provider to be paid?
These are fair questions. I don't think anyone is calling you or your wife a liar EvenBob, but it should be pretty easy for you to substantiate the claims you've made. Then, and likely only then, can the conversation proceed to discussing the implications of such forms.
Overview of Section 4302 of the Affordable Care Act
The Affordable Care Act (ACA) includes several provisions aimed at eliminating health disparities in America. Section 4302 (Understanding health disparities: data collection and analysis) of the ACA focuses on the standardization, collection, analysis, and reporting of health disparities data. While data alone will not reduce disparities, it can be foundational to our efforts to understand the causes, design effective responses, and evaluate our progress.
Section 4302 requires the Secretary of DHHS to establish data collection standards for race, ethnicity, sex, primary language, and disability status. The law requires that, once established, these data collection standards be used, to the extent practicable, in all national population health surveys.
Health 'disparities', this means info that only your
doctor was privy to before. Now any gov't flunky
can see it without a warrant, without even asking.
Feel better now? And we still don't have Bill Clinton
or Obama's health records. No, those are private.
But not our health info, no no, thats soon to be a
matter of public record.
Quote: EvenBobHealth 'disparities', this means info that only your
doctor was privy to before. Now any gov't flunky
can see it without a warrant, without even asking.
Feel better now?
I still don't see any compelling reason for you to answer truthfully, if you don't want to. I feel fine, thankyou.
Quote: rxwineI still don't see any compelling reason for you to answer truthfully, if you don't want to. I feel fine, thankyou.
Whats answering truthfully got to do with anything?
This is a major invasion of our privacy, its none of
the gov't goddam business what my BP or weight
or race is. Good grief, what a bunch of sheep some
of you are, just line up let them stick a chip in your
neck so they know what you're doing all the time.
Thats whats next.
Quote: rxwineI still don't see any compelling reason for you to answer truthfully, if you don't want to. I feel fine, thankyou.
Why should EB or anyone have to lie on a health form to protect their privacy. EB did the research, but it is as I thought--affirmitive action for medical care.
"I need an MRI"
"Sorry, sir, we have taken our quota of <insert ethnic group, sex, sexual orientation, or whatever else the government wants> this week. Try again next month."
THANKS, OBAMA!
Now, provided that the Secretary of DHHS has established these standards, some of the relevant questions that arise might be (1) Was your wife participating in a national population health survey? (2) Does she have to participate in the survey? (3) Does some other provision say that the service provider won't be paid if (s)he doesn't collect the answers from everyone?
There are probably a lot more questions, but if this applies to every patient/health-care-provider relationship, then that alone should be sufficient basis for repealing the act.
Quote: Doc
(1) Was your wife participating in a national population health survey? (2) Does she have to participate in the survey? (3) Does some other provision say that the service provider won't be paid if (s)he doesn't collect the answers from everyone?
I already answered all this. She doesn't have
to answer the questions, and the doctor doesn't have to
give her the form. And when he goes to file an Obamacare
invoice to get paid for treating her, because no form was
filled out, he will get pennies on the dollar, so little that
he's almost treating her for nothing.
Its insideous. Nobody HAS to do anything, but if you don't,
you get punished by being left out in the cold.
Quote: EvenBobI already answered all this. She doesn't have
to answer the questions, and the doctor doesn't have to
give her the form. And when he goes to file an Obamacare
invoice to get paid for treating her, because no form was
filled out, he will get pennies on the dollar, so little that
he's almost treating her for nothing.
Its insideous. Nobody HAS to do anything, but if you don't,
you get punished by being left out in the cold.
Sounds like "Animal Farm" where the animals were offered voluntary work but any animal who did not do it had his or her food rations cut in half.
Data_Gathering
Quote: EvenBobAnd when he goes to file an Obamacare
invoice to get paid for treating her, because no form was
filled out, he will get pennies on the dollar, so little that
he's almost treating her for nothing.
On Medicare and on the private insurance programs that I am familiar with, the fact that those programs won't pay the full amount charged by the service provider does not mean that the provider has to accept what the programs will pay. If the provider doesn't agree to accept the reduced amount, they just say so and collect from the patient. Most every time I see a physician (I don't use a chiropractor), I sign an agreement to pay whatever my insurance doesn't pay. Under the new program, is the provider required to accept the lower amount that might be offered for their services, or is it still the provider's choice?
Quote: AZDuffmanWhy should EB or anyone have to lie on a health form to protect their privacy. EB did the research, but it is as I thought--affirmitive action for medical care.
"I need an MRI"
"Sorry, sir, we have taken our quota of <insert ethnic group, sex, sexual orientation, or whatever else the government wants> this week. Try again next month."
THANKS, OBAMA!
Well, you guys who worry so much about other people who might be getting health care at tax payer expense, it's hard for me to care much about your miniscule complaints.
Quote: EvenBobMy wife is irate. She went to her chiropractor last week
for her usual appointment and he gave her a form to fill
out first. It was asking all kinds of intrusive questions,
like her age, weight, blood pressure, drugs she takes,
education level, marriage status, all kinds of stuff. But
what really got her going were the race and religion
questions.
What race was she, what was her religious affiliation.
What was her ethnicity. In other words, if she put down
white for race, where were her 'people' from. Poland?
Russia? England? If Asian, are you Chinese, Vietmese,
etc. My wife works for an incurance company and they
can't ask any of these type of questions.
She gave the form back and said she wouldn't do it. Thats
when the nurse said it was an Obamacare form and she
has to fill it out, if she doesn't they can refuse to treat her.
So she did it, gritting her teeth. The doctor told her he can
get in big trouble if everybody doesn't fill out these forms.
He said its their way of tracking everybody, of getting every
person in the country into the 'system' and pigeonholing
them. He hates it, but what can he do.
Welcome to Socialism, and this is just the start.
Really? Your wife's chiro made her fill out a government form even though she's privately insured? That's not right......
Quote: ParadigmI think EB is right and this is a bit scary!
Data_Gathering
This is just like so many gov't info gathering programs.
They say its for one thing, but its really for a whole
umbrella of things. Its a foot in the door, its one step
closer to them controlling everything we do. But a lot
of people don't mind that, they love being told what to
do, they have no idea how to do it on their own.
You're probably fine with that when you agree with what's trying to be done.
Here's a little violin playing for your misery.
"CMS only specifies that the provider MUST
collect the information — we’re not asking
the provider to share that information with
CMS.”
So he must collect it if he wants to get paid.
They're not asking the provider to share the
info, not yet. The program doesn't go into
effect till next year. The provider can refuse
to collect any info, and they will refuse to
pay him.
http://www.eye.md/library/AreaPatientsRecoilFromRaceQuestion.pdf?s=12698962
Quote: rxwineA lot of Repubicans want to interfere in our healthcare whether it's stem cell research, or making women jump through hoops to get abortions.
You're probably fine with that when you agree with what's trying to be done.
Here's a little violin playing for your misery.
Well, Democrats like regulation on everything from making parents jump through hoops to pack their childrens lunch instead of buying to allowing a law-abiding citizen to purchase a gun.
Here is a little violin playing for your misery.
When you cannot get to see a doctor because your skin color is not right or you do not date someone of the right sex, be sure to behappy because at least the rascally Republicans could not defeat Obamacare.
And before you say that cannot happen, remember our government already thinks skin color should play a part in college admissions and who they procure goods and services from. To allocate health care on such a basis is no stretch.
Quote: EvenBobAnd when he goes to file an Obamacare
invoice to get paid for treating her, because no form was
filled out, he will get pennies on the dollar, so little that
he's almost treating her for nothing.
Why would your wife's private insurance company pay pennies on the dollar? Even if the government were eventually to be involved in the payments between your wife's chiro and her private insurer (it isn't), wouldn't that probably only happen after Obamacare actually takes effect in 2 years?
I love socialism! It's the best. Bring it on!!Quote: EvenBobWelcome to Socialism, and this is just the start.
Quote: AZDuffman
remember our government already thinks skin color should play a part...To allocate health care on such a basis is no stretch.
Indeed...it happened for a couple hundred years. And that surely wasn't the liberals fault...
Quote: rdw4potusWhy would your wife's private insurance company pay pennies on the dollar?
There will eventually be no private companies,
thats rather the point of Obamacare. To put
the private companies out of business by
undercutting them at every turn. Somebody
hasn't been paying attention.
Quote: EvenBobThere will eventually be no private companies,
thats rather the point of Obamacare. To put
the private companies out of business by
undercutting them at every turn. Somebody
hasn't been paying attention.
Is there no oxygen inside your tinfoil hat?
Quote: rdw4potusIs there no oxygen inside your tinfoil hat?
Is their not enough cyanide in the KoolAid
you're drinking?
Life and health are a human right and shouldn't be dependent on how rich you are. The NHS prioritises by need, the US health system seems to prioritise by the wealth of the patient which is wrong is my opinion.
Quote: estebanreyI also don't understand why the word 'socialism' is used as an pejorative word in the States either; where I'm from it's just a political viewpoint you can either agree or disagree with. Nor is it an all or nothing like a lot of [paranoid] Americans seem to be (from reading this thread), you can have 'soccialised' healthcare alongside private healthcare, nor does having national healthcare mean you're suddenly going to turn into communist China.
Fear is the only device by which they have any chance in hell of winning the argument, so they try to use it.
Quote: DocOn Medicare and on the private insurance programs that I am familiar with, the fact that those programs won't pay the full amount charged by the service provider does not mean that the provider has to accept what the programs will pay. If the provider doesn't agree to accept the reduced amount, they just say so and collect from the patient. Most every time I see a physician (I don't use a chiropractor), I sign an agreement to pay whatever my insurance doesn't pay. Under the new program, is the provider required to accept the lower amount that might be offered for their services, or is it still the provider's choice?
Doc.... you know that if you accept Medicare you only get paid 80% of the fee from the government and have to go after the remaining 20% from the patient... If you accept Medicaid, which now pays me FOURTEEN PERCENT of what real insurance pays, you are legally prevented from billing the difference. The same holds true for other government run 'insurances', like No Fault and Workman's Comp. They pay me around 30% of what real insurance pays, and I am forbidden from billing the patient the difference.
As far as the main premise of this thread, a good physician always gets that information from a patient, as there are significant differences amongst races (high blood pressure, kidney disease) and religions (Tay sachs), and even hair color (redheads and anesthesia requirement). Whether that information should be 'centralized' by the federal government is obviously up for debate.
Medicare (essentially the Federal Government) has over the past few years 'encouraged' us to keep certain data on things we do, like timing of antibiotics, use of a patient warming device, etc.. and if we hit certain benchmarks we would get a 'bonus' from medicare. The 'bonus' was so low it was laughable (around $100 per anesthesiologist per YEAR) and the secretarial requirement was around one full time equivalent, so it would cost around $35,000 to get or 12 $100 bonuses. Of course now the Feds have switched it around.... there is no bonus.... but there is a PENALTY if you don't provide them with the data....
Quote: rdw4potusWhy would your wife's private insurance company pay pennies on the dollar? Even if the government were eventually to be involved in the payments between your wife's chiro and her private insurer (it isn't), wouldn't that probably only happen after Obamacare actually takes effect in 2 years?
Parts of "Obamacare" already are in effect, the more costly aspects were carefully planned to not take effect until after the election. The part that everyone seemed to agree with, the coverage of children to age 26, has already taken place.
I received a letter from our hospital from CMS (The Feds) that warned against 'upcoding'. This letter was sent because as practices now start using an EMR (Electronic Medical Record) it was noticed how much larger the bills being sent to Medicare are. Since every diagnosis is now easily found in the computer and they are less likely to be missed by a secretary scouring a large paper chart, the EMR technology has allowed doctors and hospitals to miss far fewer diagnosis so they are billing for them. And the Feds, who have trumpeted the 'cost savings' of EMR, now are of course noticing after the fact how much MORE it will be costing the Feds...
Quote: SOOPOO
Doc.... you know that if you accept Medicare you only get paid 80% of the fee from the government and have to go after the remaining 20% from the patient...
Is that different from how private insurance plans work? Most of those don't cover 100% of costs either.
Quote: SOOPOOhow much MORE it will be costing the Feds Taxpayers...
FTFY:-)
Quote: rdw4potusIs that different from how private insurance plans work? Most of those don't cover 100% of costs either.
It depends.... for big ticket items (like me!) most insurance companies pay me in full, and a small percentage require a copay. But, the percentage of 'copay' type plans is increasing....
