Remember When
Quote: rxwineI thought "skimming" or extortion was the business end of the mob? A real business was used for money laundering.
Times change. Once upon a time, the numbers were a large source of income, but that is almost non-existent these days. The businesses like newsstands and pizza parlors used to bring in a lot of cash, but who reads magazines and with America's love affair with plastic, you have to adapt. When I started in the bar business, hardly anyone took credit cards, and cigarette sales were a substantial source of revenue, as were video games and the jukebox. Most jukeboxes don't use cash these days, cigarettes are banned and coin video games aren't all that popular.
Quote: AZDuffmanEveryone you work with is trying to rip everyone they work with off.
Very few of these guys have money at any given time. It is not an easy life.
I have a friend in his mid 80's who
has a ton of Mob stories from the
50's. He lived in Brooklyn and bought
porn from Mob guys to sell in his
school. In his early 20's they let him
hang with them and run errands,
like fencing stuff at pawn shops. He
was Jewish and a kid so he always
got away with it.
He says most of the guys he knew
were not HS dropouts, they were
grade school dropouts. They would
sit around in the back room playing
cards all day, dressed in $500 suits,
concocting plans to make money that
were 95% totally ridiculous. Once in
a while they had a good idea.
My friend found them interesting for
awhile, but eventually their incredible
stupidity drove him away. For instance,
they would tell the same jokes over
and over, and always laugh at them.
They were so dumb they thought
they were geniuses. Like AZD said,
they mostly were always broke, they would
spend the money as fast as it came
in so they were always looking for
new ways to commit crimes.
Quote: EvenBob
He says most of the guys he knew
were not HS dropouts, they were
grade school dropouts. They would
sit around in the back room playing
cards all day, dressed in $500 suits,
concocting plans to make money that
were 95% totally ridiculous. Once in
a while they had a good idea.
I have heard that when you get these guys out of the social club they are very shy and reserved. They know they are uneducated and not very smart. This is why the ones who are intelligent get pulled from the muscle end and get put in charge of the rackets. Almost anyone can stick a gun in someone's face. It takes intelligence and personality to both corrupt a union and keep them in order after control has been gained. You do not have to be a genius to take bets over the phone but you do have to be one to make sure the action is balanced and settle up with your layoffs. And of course to either front or deal with the front man in a business you had better at least be literate and know the basics.
Quote: rxwineI thought “skimming” or extortion was the business end of the mob? A real business was used for money laundering.
There are all kinds of ways the mob makes money. A real business is needed to launder money which I will refer you to Saul Goodman for explanation of placement, layering, and integration. But some mobsters are too cheap to launder money. Why pay 30-40% to launder the remaining of what you had to kick up 50% of in the first place?
Laundering is another reason you need some smart guys hanging around. Although if you are running the laundromat do not expect to be invited to the social club. If I were laundering I would stay as far from it as possible. Just lead a quiet life and hope the feds never notice you.
Quote: AZDuffmanI have heard that when you get these guys out of the social club they are very shy and reserved. They know they are uneducated and not very smart.
I read a book in the 80's by a
former FBI agent who was deep
undercover in the NY Mafia for
years. He said the absolute
worst part was dealing with cretins
every day and pretending you
were as stupid as they were. He
was even suicidal at times, it got
so bad. They were not just dumb,
they were incredibly dumb. Most,
if they could read, it was at a 3rd
grade level.
I was on the Nancy Sinatra forum
20 years ago for a few years. Had
lots of conversations with her.
She knew a lot of Mob people in
the 60's because Frank was in
tight with them. I mentioned the
FBI book once and she was offended.
She had a totally different experience.
But she only dealt with the top guys,
the smart ones. She had no idea what
the lower ranks were like. And frankly,
she's not the sharpest knife in the
drawer herself..
https://youtu.be/RjwnDF2dRgI
This one seems cruel
https://youtu.be/qdcaBLUsgGQ
We have had a lot of gang members work for us. Sometimes , they don't have any record. There has been a 35 year rumor my dad is a drug dealer. Untrue. The cops had my chicken cutter in and out of court for years. The judge exploded and said "why is the case taking so long." The chicken cutter told us that they want his drug source. Which isn't us. He finally went to prison for a few years and tried to come back to work for us. We denied hiring him because he was one of the gang members that stole food from us. We had numerous gang members steal food from us. The others were fired or quit. One M13 member /ex worker sued us for a fight he started. He didn't suffer any injury. During the discovery we gave them all the witnesses and ppl on duty during the fight. About 40 ppl are going to tell the other lawyer what he doesn't want to hear. We actually have a case against him for attacking our worker. Another gang member tried a fake lawsuit. We took to our insurance carrier. Havn't heard from him in half a year. Another gang member /ex worker came to our store and attacked our worker bc she thought she slept with her bf. Turned out she didn't . Now , worker on duty is suing us for failing to protect her. Company Health insurance denies her claim and liability carrier is all over this case. Ex worker is facing assault charges. And may lose custody of children.
Our ex maintenance man is a gang member. He was the dumbest one ever, maybe the drugs fried his brain. His twin got out of prison for drug dealing.
We had an ex drug dealer work for us 12 years ago. He got his act together and now doing trade work. I still keep in contact with him.
maybe 85% of the movies made feature some kind of criminality
to some extent at some times criminals are considered heroes
a lot of people criticize some rap music for glorifying criminality
but it was happening way before that
John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heroes
and many others, if not heroes, were not so secretly admired
maybe many Americans secretly wish or dream of living that lifestyle even if they wouldn't seriously consider it
Quote: lilredroosterAmericans, and other countries and cultures have a fascination with crime and criminals
maybe 85% of the movies made feature some kind of criminality
to some extent at some times criminals are considered heroes
a lot of people criticize some rap music for glorifying criminality
but it was happening way before that
John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heroes
and many others, if not heroes, were not so secretly admired
maybe many Americans secretly wish or dream of living that lifestyle even if they wouldn't seriously consider it
America has "liked" outlaws for years. Before "The Godfather" it was westerns, which usually had a good guy/bad guy theme.
When it comes to the mafia IMHO the fascination is with the fact that the crime is organized. Like you have a structure at work they have one on the street. And they moved in on so many things.
Quote: EvenBobI read a book in the 80's by a
former FBI agent who was deep
undercover in the NY Mafia for
years. He said the absolute
worst part was dealing with cretins
every day and pretending you
were as stupid as they were. He
was even suicidal at times, it got
so bad. They were not just dumb,
they were incredibly dumb. Most,
if they could read, it was at a 3rd
grade level.
In "Boss of Bosses" they speculated that some of the top level guys would actually talk to the FBI just to have an intelligent conversation where you could follow a line of logic. Not that they gave them anything, but the FBI talks to these guys sometimes. I had a 1%er biker doing some work for me and he confirmed the FBI will alert them if a hit has been greenlighted for example. They also talk just to let these guys know they have someone to approach if they ever flip. A name to call who they have some sort of relationship with no matter how weird.
But they said the upper level guys when they deal with the lower level guys it is just "go here, do this. See this guy. Collect that." And of course they will screw it up half the time. When I had entry level people working for me in the legit world it was bad enough. I cannot imagine how it is in OC. No wonder those high level guys are always in a bad mood.
Quote: lilredroosterAmericans, and other countries and cultures have a fascination with crime and criminals
maybe 85% of the movies made feature some kind of criminality
to some extent at some times criminals are considered heroes
a lot of people criticize some rap music for glorifying criminality
but it was happening way before that
John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heroes
and many others, if not heroes, were not so secretly admired
maybe many Americans secretly wish or dream of living that lifestyle even if they wouldn't seriously consider it
Dillenger and Bonnie and Clyde were robbing banks at a time when banks were using every excuse possible to legally take away people's homes and farms. Many perceived them as modern-day Robin Hoods.
Woody Guthrie, who also wrote This Land is Your Land wrote the following ditty:
Was in Oklahoma City and on a Christmas Day, came a wagon full of groceries and a message that did say
Some say that I'm an outlaw, some say that I'm a thief, well here are some Christmas dinners for the families on relief.
Thru this world, we'll ramble, and thru this world, we'll roam
But you'll but never find an outlaw drive a family from their home.
Compared to the modern day crooks who sell poison to our kids and extort hard working citizens, maybe those bank robbers were heroes.
Nope. They’re both crooks. A crook doesn’t become a hero because Billryan found a worse crook. Though I get why some like to make things sound simple an black and white.Quote: billryan
Compared to the modern day crooks who sell poison to our kids and extort hard working citizens, maybe those bank robbers were heroes.
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/24/nyregion/for-gotti-s-supporters-disbelief-and-anger.html
Quote: lilredroosterstory about the tremendous support for John Gotti from NYC's Italian American community at the time of his trial:
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/24/nyregion/for-gotti-s-supporters-disbelief-and-anger.html
Gotti's crew paid hundreds of young wannabes to "demonstrate". I wouldn't read that as tremendous support from the Italian community. Compare a dozen busloads of demonstrators to the hundred thousand Haitians who protested not being able to donate blood around the same time.
Quote: billryanGotti's crew paid hundreds of young wannabes to "demonstrate".
how is it that you were able to uncover that information but the NY Times couldn't?
I googled and found nothing about that
what is your source?
did you pal around in Little Italy with the Underboss, Sammy the Bull .....................................(-:\
Never met Sammy, but his son and Gotti Jr were big on the NY nitelife scene while I was working it. One of my friend's fathers was mobbed up but he couldn't be because his mom was Irish. Hid dad just disappeared one day.
Personally, I think the Irish mob was bigger in NYC but they are a much more secretive group. They all folded like cheap suits when the Russians hit town.
Quote: gamerfreakI’ve watched all of sopranos at least 3 times
I still have not watched a single episode of Sopranos, and it sounds like something that I would enjoy. It is so many seasons that I am a little bit intimidated to start it.
Quote: billryan
Personally, I think the Irish mob was bigger in NYC but they are a much more secretive group. They all folded like cheap suits when the Russians hit town.
The Westies were one of the few groups that the mafia could not totally dominate. Paul Castellano made them a deal, went partners. I doubt the Irish were "bigger" though.
Quote: billryanNot too long ago, I binge-watched the Sopranos over the course of about a week. It stood up better than I expected, and the last couple of seasons weren't as long and drawn out as I'd recalled. It's worth watching.
The show was very well done for many reasons. It did show the dreary life that the rank and file member or associate lives. How what happens to you if they get their hooks into you. Richie and Davey is still one of my favorite storylines.
9ne case l know involvéd every witness's lying but I truly thiñk justice was done.
after serving time for that, he was later, in 2001, sentenced to 20 years for drug dealing. he served about 15 and got out in 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sammy_Gravano
80 to 83. Mine was a 67, but
it's the same car. Best car I
ever owned, period. It was
like riding on a cloud and
it had unreal power. And
maybe 12 miles to the gallon.
A Gay guy customer in the
bar lived with his mother and
she bought it new in 67.
He wanted a grand for it and
I told him I would tear up
his $600 bar tab in exchange
for the car. So I actually paid
about $60 in cash because
my liquor was marked up
1000%. lol
It lasted me 3 years because
I never used the heat, air, and
never put the top down. That's
where all the problems were
in these cars.
I was young, 21, and a little bit naive
I was shocked to see the regulars, alcoholics, boozing it up every single day
most of them started around 5:30 p.m. and continued boozing until close to closing time after midnight
the owner probably bought the bar so he could booze up every day at a huge discount
he started every single day at 11 a.m. with Canadian Club and water and continued boozing all the way until midnight
he had about 11 or 12 shots every single day
I never saw him eat anything - somebody told me that the alcohol acted as food for him
he died at age 43
*
Quote: billryanThings have changed a bit with the DWI laws, but it was sad watching some people drink themselves to death.
It's sad at first, then it's just irritating.
You stop feeling sorry for them and
start resenting them. At least I did.
I was fast becoming them, driving
home every night drunk. Got out of
the biz and haven't been in a bar
since 83.. MADD was born at the
same time I left the industry.
Quote: EvenBob
It lasted me 3 years because
I never used the heat, air, and
never put the top down. That's
where all the problems were
in these cars.
Watched the rest of the video. Like
the expert says, the mid and late
60's Lincoln's were the finest luxury
cars Detroit ever produced. For 3
years it was a joy to drive this
land yacht around Santa Barbara.
When I moved back to MI I had to
get rid of it, a sad day. If you've never
ridden in one, there is no car experience
like it. 5000 pounds absorbing every
bump in the road. Floating on air.
It's like driving your living room couch
around town.
Quote: lilredroostermy very first job out of college was as a bartender in DC - not a swinging disco but a neighborhood bar
I was young, 21, and a little bit naive
I was shocked to see the regulars, alcoholics, boozing it up every single day
most of them started around 5:30 p.m. and continued boozing until close to closing time after midnight
the owner probably bought the bar so he could booze up every day at a huge discount
he started every single day at 11 a.m. with Canadian Club and water and continued boozing all the way until midnight
he had about 11 or 12 shots every single day
I never saw him eat anything - somebody told me that the alcohol acted as food for him
he died at age 43
*
I met a guy on a cruise ship owned 6 bars in different cities. He was in AA. He said if you buy a bar you must never, ever drink there. Said it is impossible not to become a full blown drunk if you do. The bar version of "don't get high on your own supply." Same cruise (it was a singles cruise so you buddied up with the same group) a doctor said that is what alcoholics do, they drink their calories. Also said look at the soft part your hand makes between your thumb and index finger. When that is no longer soft and fatty you probably are seeing an alcoholic.
Quote: EvenBobI had this exact same car from
80 to 83. Mine was a 67, but
it's the same car. Best car I
ever owned, period. It was
like riding on a cloud and
it had unreal power. And
maybe 12 miles to the gallon.
A Gay guy customer in the
bar lived with his mother and
she bought it new in 67.
He wanted a grand for it and
I told him I would tear up
his $600 bar tab in exchange
for the car. So I actually paid
about $60 in cash because
my liquor was marked up
1000%. lol
It lasted me 3 years because
I never used the heat, air, and
never put the top down. That's
where all the problems were
in these cars.
Saw this video some time back. There will be a loss when that mechanic retires or dies. These are very sharp cars, very clean lines. And from a time when Detroit thought it could do anything. A car worthy of Don Draper.
Quote: AZDuffmanHe said if you buy a bar you must never, ever drink there. Said it is impossible not to become a full blown drunk if you do.
Truth. I was told that when I got
the bar and thought, not me. But
I was 30 years old and still a kid
when it came to life experiences.
You are under huge pressure to
drink because customers are
always buying them for you and
get insulted if you say no. But
I really started drinking a lot to
deal with the job. Being around
alcoholics 7 days a week wears
you down, so you join them
and give up fighting them.
I was told all you needed was 10
regular dedicated daily customers
to make the bar successful. It
had been there since 1947 when
I got it, we had 35-40 full time
drunks, and dozens of part timers.
Quote: AZDuffmanSaw this video some time back. There will be a loss when that mechanic retires or dies. These are very sharp cars, very clean lines. And from a time when Detroit thought it could do anything. A car worthy of Don Draper.
Fully restored they bring $100,000 today.
I paid $60 and sold it for $300 in 1983.
Sigh. New they were $7000 loaded.
You could get a loaded Impala for
$2500.
Quote: EvenBobTruth. I was told that when I got
the bar and thought, not me. But
I was 30 years old and still a kid
when it came to life experiences.
You are under huge pressure to
drink because customers are
always buying them for you and
get insulted if you say no. But
I really started drinking a lot to
deal with the job. Being around
alcoholics 7 days a week wears
you down, so you join them
and give up fighting them.
I was told all you needed was 10
regular dedicated daily customers
to make the bar successful. It
had been there since 1947 when
I got it, we had 35-40 full time
drunks, and dozens of part timers.
Along those lines, I tried to stress to my bartenders how important those regulars were to them. Piss off a regular customer and you lose about $2,000 in annual tips. Some of it will be replaced, but not most of it.
Quote: AZDuffmanAlso said look at the soft part your hand makes between your thumb and index finger. When that is no longer soft and fatty you probably are seeing an alcoholic.
another tell of an alcy is a red nose - usually on the very tip of the nose - sometimes it gets bulbous
*
Quote: EvenBobTruth. I was told that when I got
the bar and thought, not me. But
I was 30 years old and still a kid
when it came to life experiences.
You are under huge pressure to
drink because customers are
always buying them for you and
get insulted if you say no. But
I really started drinking a lot to
deal with the job. Being around
alcoholics 7 days a week wears
you down, so you join them
and give up fighting them.
I was told all you needed was 10
regular dedicated daily customers
to make the bar successful. It
had been there since 1947 when
I got it, we had 35-40 full time
drunks, and dozens of part timers.
Out with my brother once and they had those shot girls selling test tubes of whatever for a couple or three bucks. Dudes bought her one which she dumped when they downed theirs. She saw him see it but gave a kind of a wink. No surprise even then. I have never offered because I know a bartender is not supposed to have one. I was told a bartender in PA is (or was) not allowed to have a drink behind the bar. Just from working the dealing gigs I get offered time to time.
10 customers sounds a tad light but I buy it at 20. I see owning a small bar as a thing for a sociable person with no real family and thus their life IS the bar. Bar I used to hang out it was open Christmas Eve and Day. Was talking to the owner and he said he and his partner had no family so nowhere to go. And they knew about a dozen regulars who were in the same boat.
I used to go there a bit too often, that life is addicting. When I moved to AZ there were no "corner bars" of any sort. It broke me of the habit and I just never picked it up again as now all but one place in my town is grandfathered smoking.
Quote: AZDuffman
I used to go there a bit too often, that life is addicting.
The show Cheers tried to capture
that but totally played down
the drinking part. My daytime
bartender did his shift and then
got shitfaced every night on
the customer side. You didn't
see that on Cheers. He lived
above the bar and the place
was literally his home. I really
disliked him but customers
loved him.
Quote: EvenBob
It lasted me 3 years because
I never used the heat, air, and
never put the top down.
Blasphemous!!!
People that own convertibles should be forced to sell them if their top isn't down at least 40% of the time.
Quote: DRichBlasphemous!!!
People that own convertibles should be forced to sell them if their top isn't down at least 40% of the time.
Always loved convertibles probably because the first family car I remember was a 66 Newport convertible. Finally got one in 95 thought it ended up being the biggest piece of junk I ever owned. But the top went down.
Office politics meant that the service manager disliked me. Wasn't total hate but a kind of office cold war. He comes in one day in probably February. One of those "nice" days with "nice" being about 50F but clear and dry. Comes in talking about "some nut" in a convertible. Says, "his windows were up and wearing a heavy coat but his top was down. What kind of.........(sees me).......let me guess, you would do that?!"
Thanksgiving a couple years back I forgot some old football cards a surprise to my niece and nephew who like collecting them, a short story in itself. At my mother's I take my old man's convertible out. Top down of course. At the traffic light some black guy in a SUV looks over and shakes his head. I can imagine him telling his family about some crazy white dude driving with the top down in November.
If I had the money the one convertible I want is the Mercedes SL. $140k is quite out of my budget now.
I owned a Jensen-Healy for a short time, but it never ran when I had it.
One couple had a great big wheel of hay stolen from their pick up truck while grocery shopping, so how safe is a convertible?
Quote: DRichI have had at least one convertible at all times for the last 30 years until this year. I am definitely starting to miss it.
If I had the money the one convertible I want is the Mercedes SL. $140k is quite out of my budget now.
I'd like to have one modern one, 2000 or newer, for regular use but one of those monsters from the early 70s to take out just a couple times a year. Used to love them when I was still into cars and today think they are an important part of history, They show just how excessive the USA had gotten by 1970. Then the oil shock came along with other things that killed old school cars and old school life in the USA in so many ways.
Nothing like one on the highway. Ride on a cloud and feel you control the world.
Quote: AZDuffmanI'd like to have one modern one, 2000 or newer, for regular use but one of those monsters from the early 70s to take out just a couple times a year. Used to love them when I was still into cars and today think they are an important part of history, They show just how excessive the USA had gotten by 1970. Then the oil shock came along with other things that killed old school cars and old school life in the USA in so many ways.
Nothing like one on the highway. Ride on a cloud and feel you control the world.
I am not a car guy but I do love a convertible. The worst car I have ever owned was my Cadillac Allante. I bought it new in 1990 for $53,000. It was a piece of crap. That was the car GM was trying to use for all of their new technology. That thing was in the shop so much. GM was trying to compete with the Mercedes SLand failed miserably. One time that car was in the shop for 5 straight months and they wouldn't even give me a loaner.
Quote: DRichI am not a car guy but I do love a convertible. The worst car I have ever owned was my Cadillac Allante. I bought it new in 1990 for $53,000. It was a piece of crap. That was the car GM was trying to use for all of their new technology. That thing was in the shop so much. GM was trying to compete with the Mercedes SLand failed miserably. One time that car was in the shop for 5 straight months and they wouldn't even give me a loaner.
Quality issues aside I always liked the Allante. People get hung up on "performance" of many of these cars too much. The last Thunderbird had the same issue. Because it is a convertible the press and enthusiasts think it has to have 400 bhp and a race car stiff ride. I want something that looks decent, easy to drive, smooth ride. A "cruiser." An "old man ride" if you must.
To me the Allante had clean styling even if the top was way too complex to operate. No need for the removable hard roof. That is one of those ideas that sounds great until you have to store the thing. I had an uncle had a makeshift crane in his garage to remove the top from his Excalibur. How they mess up top operation is beyond me. My dad had a '47 Cadillac convertible that was simple, one latch and hit the switch. 60's cars flip two latches hit the switch. Nothing needs invented, just do what they always did. But on some cars they simply make a mess of an easy thing.
