Discussion about the Suspension List
I woulld love to read the insulting PM which led to 30 days of silence....
Quote: WongBoI like the links to the offending posts that lead to suspension.
I woulld love to read the insulting PM which led to 30 days of silence....
Same. 3 to 30 skipped a bunch of steps. Nareed, while not one to back down, rarely loses control in such manner.
I haven't had television service since May. Haven't missed it a day, thanks to WoV.
Quote: FaceSame. 3 to 30 skipped a bunch of steps. .
Made me think of the Jerry Reed song, "when you're hot, you're hot" because I thought the lyrics included "getting 30 days " as in
"Thirty days, Jerry, when you hot, you hot" but it turns out it's 90 days he gets.
Looking up the lyrics, turns out I also forgot it pretty much is a Craps playing song,
"Had a big crap game goin' back in the alley
And I kept rollin' them sevens, winnin' all them pots...
I jest kept on rollin' and controllin' them bones"
"Put all the money in and let's roll 'em again
When you're hot, you're hot...
Well, now every time I rolled them dice I'd win..."
http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/reed-jerry/when-youre-hot-youre-hot-19135.html
Quote: odiousgambitLooking up the lyrics, turns out I also forgot it pretty much is a Craps playing song
Yup. All about street craps in the alley and getting pinched by the rozzers.
Huge Jerry Reed fan here =)
Also, being into the many political threads here, I thought the ending of Reed's song was interesting, too. After the singing ends and he's bitching at the judge for throwing him in the clink, he makes the comment that if he's in the clink "who's gonna pick up my welfare check, (and) pay for my Cadillac". I thought it an interesting sociological observation, Reed poking fun at people, in the 70's, mind you, using welfare for luxuries. Seems there's still a lot of bitching about that today.
Quote: WizardMultiple identities is normally a serious offense, worthy of a direct nuke. However, usually those who did it deserve to be nuked anyway.
However, I'm going to give ahigh/aahigh just 14 days, to be served consecutively with his 3-day ban for a personal insult. The reason I'm not going to nuke him is the quality of his writing is pretty good and I think if he behaved could be a decent forum member. Hopefully he will see this, just read the forum while he is banned, and come back with a better understanding of the forum rules and expectations. My finger will not be far from the ban button come Sept 13.
I still don't know how this board operates in general.
Last time I looked my name was still in red letters. Does that mean I can still no longer post? What does it mean?
Can you collapse both my accounts into one account? I prefer Ahigh and I only use Aahigh when Ahigh is not available. I do not believe I intentionally created two accounts knowing that I already had an account.
Quote: AhighCan you collapse both my accounts into one account? I prefer Ahigh and I only use Aahigh when Ahigh is not available. I do not believe I intentionally created two accounts knowing that I already had an account.
No, the accounts cannot be combined. Consider yourself Ahigh, as AAhigh has been permanently banned. I can forgive accidentally creating two accounts, as long as one is dormant. However, using a second account, to get around a ban, will not be tolerated.
http://www.pulcinientertainment.com/info/1-blocked-1ass.jpg
Here's a link to the original post where I personally felt insulted by 7 craps:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/11010-what-is-the-probability-of-someone-rolling-17-fours-and-18-tens-in-one-hand-of-craps/2/
After I was banned, he continued to post inflammatory messages. I'm pretty sure that he skirts the rules as closely as possible in order to achieve whatever objectives he wants to achieve.
I'm pretty sure that one of his objectives is to create problems on your board, such as this particular problem with me. I could be wrong about that, but it's a pretty firm belief of mine.
I don't honestly believe that you have spent the time to truly understand the conflict between me and 7 craps. There has certainly been no authority figure to correct him on any points where he has been wrong in my absence, or to correct me if I am wrong.
Just apply the rules in a relatively blind fashion, and let those more experienced with the rules be entitled to insulting people within the rules is what I observed personally.
I had a problem similar to this years ago on this forum, and I was invited to join other craps boards where there was more tolerance and less bickering about details that many already know and so on. Even though I think everyone important to me personally knows all these answers in general (edges and so on), it seems a focus of your forums to obsess over this stage of learning about games: the numbers and edges.
There are much more things to learn about many of the games that you cover that will never be learned by your members so long as everyone is hung up condemning each other over things like edge per roll versus edge per bet versus edge per resolved bet-combination and/or strategy.
I find such topics drole to bicker over myself. And I find those who insult me over it as petty and argumentative. This is a general statement and I am not insulting anyone in particular, just to be careful of the rules over here.
In short, there's a lot of good stuff going on here, and one man's noise is another man's signal, keep that in mind. If you see a post in which nobody has any interest whatsoever, then the OP will get no replies.
There's also an open door, here. I'm not saying you're not valuable, because you are. You're clearly an intelligent guy, you love gaming, and you have a lot of great stuff that you use to put a lot of work into it. I think almost everyone here can respect that, the effort, if absolutely nothing else.
This is a message board, though, and The Wizard (who owns it) occasionally has to make a call. The party against whom a call is made is often the party to believe they got the short end of the stick. I like you and I like 7Craps, but I imagine that many share in my opinion that I don't care what you think of 7Craps personally, nor do I care what he thinks of you personally. If I thought I might have an on-going problem with someone, I'd block them, I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
You know you are free to leave at anytime. I hope you don't, really. But it is your choice.
Quote: Mission146The Wizard is a gambling mathematician, I'm assuming that you are aware of that. This is The Wizard's Forum comprised significantly of people who are fans of the WoO site and enjoy reading The Wizard's gaming Math. It is also a general gambling forum, but there should be no surprise if it takes a bit of a Math turn. I also believe (and could be wrong) that this, more than any other Forum, is frequented by bona fide game designers who are personal friends with The Wizard.
In short, there's a lot of good stuff going on here, and one man's noise is another man's signal, keep that in mind. If you see a post in which nobody has any interest whatsoever, then the OP will get no replies.
There's also an open door, here. I'm not saying you're not valuable, because you are. You're clearly an intelligent guy, you love gaming, and you have a lot of great stuff that you use to put a lot of work into it. I think almost everyone here can respect that, the effort, if absolutely nothing else.
This is a message board, though, and The Wizard (who owns it) occasionally has to make a call. The party against whom a call is made is often the party to believe they got the short end of the stick. I like you and I like 7Craps, but I imagine that many share in my opinion that I don't care what you think of 7Craps personally, nor do I care what he thinks of you personally. If I thought I might have an on-going problem with someone, I'd block them, I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
There is always "if you can't beat 'em join 'em." If insulting people in a way that doesn't violate the rules is what I have learned people are encouraged to do around here by the way in which the rules are enforced, I can in fact play that game. I'm just waiting for the answer that what 7 craps is doing to insult me is encouraged by the board, and how I responded by insulting him violated the board's policies. I can insult people the way that he insulted me if that is what the Wizard wants is a big drama-filled insult-fest where we try to avoid breaking the rules and get others to break the rules as the result of our insults that abide by the rules.
So far, nobody has even ACKNOWLEDGED that I was insulted by 7 craps. So maybe I IMAGINED it? Possibly? The whole point of the rules is to prevent this from happening. If the rules were working, I would not have been insulted by him. But apparently they do NOT work.
Quote: AhighThere is always "if you can't beat 'em join 'em." If insulting people in a way that doesn't violate the rules is what I have learned people are encouraged to do around here by the way in which the rules are enforced, I can in fact play that game. I'm just waiting for the answer that what 7 craps is doing to insult me is encouraged by the board, and how I responded by insulting him violated the board's policies. I can insult people the way that he insulted me if that is what the Wizard wants is a big drama-filled insult-fest where we try to avoid breaking the rules and get others to break the rules as the result of our insults that abide by the rules.
So far, nobody has even ACKNOWLEDGED that I was insulted by 7 craps. So maybe I IMAGINED it? Possibly? The whole point of the rules is to prevent this from happening. If the rules were working, I would not have been insulted by him. But apparently they do NOT work.
Let me be REALLY specific. Why was he ALLOWED to post a URL to an image that called me an ASS? Why was that okay?
Quote: AhighSo far, nobody has even ACKNOWLEDGED that I was insulted by 7 craps. So maybe I IMAGINED it? Possibly? The whole point of the rules is to prevent this from happening. If the rules were working, I would not have been insulted by him. But apparently they do NOT work.
Ahigh - Isn't it time to let go of this? I have no doubt that you are well credentialed and are more than competent to write about a variety of gaming related topics, but this petty arguement is getting old. As my sister-in-law says, "Build a bridge, cross over it, and move along"
Feel better ?
Quote: buzzpaff"So far, nobody has even ACKNOWLEDGED that I was insulted by 7 craps." There, I acknowledge he insulted you !
Feel better ?
Yes, actually and thank you.
I appreciate all the comments, and I absolutely am a sensitive guy who does not like to be insulted.
The only real power people have over you is the power you give them.
Never be afraid of anybody who goes to sleep or turns their back.
Perhaps because nobody noticed it? Now that you mention it, I still didn't see it. Just WHERE did this occur? Note: Find the post in question, right click on the "Permalink" in the top right, then paste the link here with your clain.Quote: AhighLet me be REALLY specific. Why was he ALLOWED to post a URL to an image that called me an ASS? Why was that okay?
For the record, the Wiz has stated on more than one occasion that he reads about 10% of the posts. Whatever you find offensive, he may have not seen.
http://www.pulcinientertainment.com/info/1-blocked-1ass.jpg
Link to the post:
Including the image that puts me in a list of people that he apparently thinks are asses:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/11010-what-is-the-probability-of-someone-rolling-17-fours-and-18-tens-in-one-hand-of-craps/2/#post175084
Quote: DJTeddyBearPerhaps because nobody noticed it? Now that you mention it, I still didn't see it. Just WHERE did this occur? Note: Find the post in question, right click on the "Permalink" in the top right, then paste the link here with your clain.
For the record, the Wiz has stated on more than one occasion that he reads about 10% of the posts. Whatever you find offensive, he may have not seen.
Quote: Ahigh
So far, nobody has even ACKNOWLEDGED that I was insulted by 7 craps.
I would guess nobody cares. I've been suspended, Buzz has
been suspended, they person with the most posts, over 8000,
in on suspension for 30 days. So I'm afraid the only one that
feels sorry for you, is you. Stuff happens around here, oh well.
Quote: EvenBobI would guess nobody cares. I've been suspended, Buzz has
been suspended, they person with the most posts, over 8000,
in on suspension for 30 days. So I'm afraid the only one that
feels sorry for you, is you. Stuff happens around here, oh well.
I'm not even asking for someone to fell SORRY for me. I am asking for confirmation that the application of the rules did not work in this case.
I got insulted with no action being taken.
Then when I broke the rules, I was suspended.
If the rules were working, and if they were applied in a meaningful way, I would never have insulted anyone, and 7 craps comments that insulted me would have been removed. And people would have verified whether the statement that I made was correct or if in fact, 7 craps statements that I was incorrect would have been verified.
Generally none of this happened.
Nobody weighed in on the original statements that I made about edges. It was just all left out there with no resolution, and I was banned for two weeks, and 7 craps continued to talk poorly about me after I was unable to post due to my being banned.
I'm not asking anyone to _care_.
I am pointing out a problem with how things are run around here. And I'm wondering if it's actually sort of "okay" with everyone that this sort of thing happens so much.
It's interesting that so many people get banned and that so much activity is about who did what to who and why and what was the punishment.
But really, is that what this board has for it's goals. To sort of be a little schoolyard full of tattletales and bullies and name calling and so on?
Quote: Ahigh
But really, is that what this board has for it's goals. To sort of be a little schoolyard full of tattletales and bullies and name calling and so on?
Thats right, keep insulting us and see where it gets
you.
Quote: AhighThis is the link in question:
http://www.pulcinientertainment.com/info/1-blocked-1ass.jpg
Link to the post:
Including the image that puts me in a list of people that he apparently thinks are asses:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/11010-what-is-the-probability-of-someone-rolling-17-fours-and-18-tens-in-one-hand-of-craps/2/#post175084
Ahigh, As one of the people blocked by 7craps, trust me when I say he has done you a favor by blocking you. Just let it go. This forum has a lot of good people on it. Don't risk alienating yourself trying to get even with someone who took a cheap shot.
Quote: buzzpaff" It's up to you to express the problem to the teacher. " tattletale..
You say it like it's a bad thing to point out where someone's actions negatively affect you.
Is someone who reports a robbery on their house to the police a "tattletale"?
Quote: AhighI am asking for confirmation that the application of the rules did not work in this case. I got insulted with no action being taken. Then when I broke the rules, I was suspended.
That is just the way it is. Lots of posts are never read by any of the admins. It is like speeding. Sometimes when you do it you get caught and sometimes you don't.
Furthermore, you're expecting an admin to actually check what an embedded image is titled? It is trouble enough to read what is said openly.
Finally, the post in question was written on August 26. Granted you were suspended much of the time since then, but if you felt so strongly about it then you can always Email the complaint in. I don't like to ban people for old stuff.
I will grant you that you got insulted, but I don't concede that the system failed. The system only promises a certain probability of being banned if you break the rules. My advice -- just get over it.
Quote: thecesspitIf your are insulted, and yet you don't point it out, there's every chance that the moderators will not see it. It's up to you to express the problem to the teacher.
That does not guarantee that any action will be taken even when there is no question that an insult was made.
Quote: 1BBThat does not guarantee that any action will be taken even when there is no question that an insult was made.
Well, that's the same as the robbery case as well.
Quote: thecesspitYou say it like it's a bad thing to point out where someone's actions negatively affect you.
Is someone who reports a robbery on their house to the police a "tattletale"?
If calling someone an ASS was equivalent to robbing a house ,I would be serving 1, 345, 767 years in jail as a burglar.
Quote: AhighI am pointing out a problem with how things are run around here. And I'm wondering if it's actually sort of "okay" with everyone that this sort of thing happens so much.
It's interesting that so many people get banned and that so much activity is about who did what to who and why and what was the punishment.
But really, is that what this board has for it's goals. To sort of be a little schoolyard full of tattletales and bullies and name calling and so on?
Ahigh, there are some people on this board who hang out just to cause problems, and see how close they can get to a suspension without receiving one. I can only assume it is sport to them. But even the worst of them sometimes have an interesting point to make. That is why I have not blocked anyone. Most of the time, I skim read their posts, but I have no intentions of getting into a war of words with them. What's the point? What is the best that can come out of arguing with a fool?
You either look like a fool too, or, you win, and you get to proclaim you won an argument against a fool. That will get you far. LOL
There are plenty of other people on here who have great info, occasionally they may get into a spat, but by and large they stay on topic. And the wealth of math people is fantastic. I consider their input to be well worth the noise that the few others put out.
I think it is time for you to choose. Do you want to become part of the first group, or be more productive as a part of the second group? You will get out of this site what you put into it! Best wishes.
PS. Hang out here for a year and I think you will see the suspensions are, by and large, mostly fair. People that have been here a long time probably do get a bit more leniency then a newcomer, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Quote: 24BingoI will say this - you were right. Once that point has come up, the EV of the bet, even though you can't do anything about it, is 10/11 of its value. If 7craps ran some simulations, and only counted those bets on which sixes and eights came up on the point, he would see that. Of course, there's no real importance to that fact, since the odds bet is totally separate, and there's no way to control where the point will land, so only the initial edge really matters. But his "insult" isn't, not really, not by the standards I've seen. It looks to me like you've got to be pretty direct to get mods' attention. Likewise, unless it's very direct, it's best not to worry them about what is and isn't an insult. The board is being dismissive of this complaint because it's what the complaint merits.
My complaint isn't even about 7 craps specifically. The complaint is that the rule-based system is short-sighted and focused on the rules and enforcement of the rules above and beyond addressing the conflicts that led up to flinging of insults back and forth.
And I have to be careful, because while I have read the rules this time around, I'm sure I'm still treading on dangerous territory in criticizing how this forum is run in such a way as to actually encourage this type of behavior rather than try to control it.
I would very much like it if the Wizard himself reviewed everything that I and 7 craps said on that particular thread and corrected me and corrected 7 craps on each and every point with a response rather than just banning me for calling him a name.
It's just a matter of what is more important: who is right and wrong about the facts versus who got caught calling the other person a name, especially in the light of I didn't start this; and I had no idea about any rules about name calling when I called him a name in response to him putting me on his list of "asses."
And so far, it seems the name calling is more worthy of attention, which is why I am talking about that instead of discussing the details of how the edges work in craps. If people wanted to talk about those details of the edges that led up to the conflict (such as the Wizard), there would have been discussions about exactly HOW I was wrong instead of just categorizing me as someone to ignore and clumping me in with a list of people in an image labelled with the word "ass."
I will probably continue to talk only about these insults and so forth and so on until I am satisfied that anyone with the authority to resolve the original conflict cares about the original content for which I was insulted rather than the insults themselves. This isn't what I want to talk about, but as long as what I say doesn't agree with someone and they continue to be given the free pass to insult me as a result of what I say, there is no motivation for me to contribute anything technical. Especially something that doesn't fit in with what has already been talked about and all the existing personalities on this board have no frame of reference for how to accept or reject the notions that I am proposing for contemplation.
There are plenty of other places for me to post my information. And in fact, I have posted information to many of these other places after being banned from here. I think it would have been cooler to share what I'm learning on this forum. But instead we got into discussions about personal insults and violating rules and so on and so forth.
Quote: Ahigh
I will probably continue to talk only about these insults and so forth and so on until I am satisfied that anyone with the authority to resolve the original conflict cares
That would be the Wiz and he just told you to
'get over it'. He's not going to do anything and
its his site, there's nobody above him.
Quote: EvenBobThat would be the Wiz and he just told you to
'get over it'. He's not going to do anything and
its his site, there's nobody above him.
No, so far, the Wizard hasn't made any comments about my original post that inflamed 7 craps.
As far as I know, the Wizard has not taken the time to read the original comments from which 7 craps took issue with and subsequently decided to label me as an ass.
Quote: AhighNo, so far, the Wizard hasn't made any comments about my original post that inflamed 7 craps.
An hour ago the Wiz said:
"I will grant you that you got insulted, but I
don't concede that the system failed. The
system only promises a certain probability
of being banned if you break the rules.
My advice -- just get over it."
Thats it, he ain't gonna do any more on this.
Quote: AhighNo, so far, the Wizard hasn't made any comments about my original post that inflamed 7 craps.
As far as I know, the Wizard has not taken the time to read the original comments from which 7 craps took issue with and subsequently decided to label me as an ass.
Normally, multiple accounts leads to a permanent ban. The fact that you weren't nuked caused a member to leave and she hasn't returned since. I really think you are pushing it insisting the Wizard go back over your spat with 7craps.
Let it go.
by that 3rd definition you are proving yourself to be an ASS !
Quote: EvenBobAn hour ago the Wiz said:
"I will grant you that you got insulted, but I
don't concede that the system failed. The
system only promises a certain probability
of being banned if you break the rules.
My advice -- just get over it."
Thats it, he ain't gonna do any more on this.
Sorry. I didn't read his comment. After you specifically mentioned it, I went back and saw it.
Quote: buzzpaffASS : a stupid, foolish, or stubborn person.
by that 3rd definition you are proving yourself to be an ASS !
AWESOME. LOL.
Alright, unless Mr Wizard bans you for calling me names, I guess we can move on having gone full circle.
Quote: AhighSorry. I didn't read his comment. After you specifically mentioned it, I went back and saw it.
I'm glad that you saw his acknowledgement.
I will say that the "statute of limitations" on a perceived offense is defined by the administrator and owner of this board, and it's his call to make. When he makes a call, we all should say "fine, so be it," and not resent it, and get on with new, more positive things.
Quote: buzzpaffASS : a stupid, foolish, or stubborn person.
by that 3rd definition you are proving yourself to be an ASS !
I'm going to let this go with an on the record warning that it comes close to crossing the line.
Quote: WizardI'm going to let this go with an on the record warning that it comes close to crossing the line.
I will consider myself properly chastised. Once again I have fallen victim to temptation.
And yes, I am aware this will go on my permanent record.
.
Quote: buzzpaff
And yes, I am aware this will go on my permanent record.
.
If you apply for a firearm license, or try and adopt
a child, this could hurt you.
Quote: AhighSorry. I didn't read his comment. After you specifically mentioned it, I went back and saw it.
I think you should stop and take a good look at this statement.
You are accusing the administrators of failing to notice some obscure comment. Yet you have failed to read the Wizard's direct response to your inquiry.
Frankly, if I were the Wiz, I would take that as an insult in itself.
Note: If you had said you failed to notice his comment, it would change nothing. It's kinda hard to not notice the Wizard's posts when his name appears in green. And it's particularly hard to not notice when you were demanding a response from him.
Quote: DJTeddyBearI think you should stop and take a good look at this statement.
You are accusing the administrators of failing to notice some obscure comment. Yet you have failed to read the Wizard's direct response to your inquiry.
.
I even pointed out to him that the Wiz said 'get over it'.
He still didn't get it, and I had to lead him by the nose
to the Wiz's post. And he wonder's why nobody saw
the huge insult against him and why the world didn't
come to a halt because the other guy wasn't punished.
The irony!
It was an honest mistake.
Quote: 24BingoAlthough - I'd forgotten the post that actually got you suspended. Regardless of what 7craps said, it was way out of line to export that kind of drama to another thread, let alone that belligerently. It's pretty tacky to export it here, really, although I guess here it's sort of on topic.
If you read far enough back in this thread, you will see I did not instigate bringing this issue to this thread. I merely was unable to comment on it for a couple of weeks.
