Discussion III about the Suspension List
since coachbelly is no longer a member of good standing on this site, does that mean Terapine (or anyone else) can insult him now?Quote: terapinedQuote: coachbellyQuote: terapinedNobody cares
You takin to me?
I chased you off this site at least 6 months ago...this is what inspired your return?
Thanks
This pretty much sums up your addiction to this site. Not adding content. Just looking to chase people off
A very sad addiction
You need help.
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No. of course not.Quote: 100xOddssince coachbelly is no longer a member of good standing on this site, does that mean Terapine (or anyone else) can insult him now?
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For example, would I get suspended for saying that non-members Johnny Depp and Amber Heard come off looking like complete idiots for doing their dirty laundry in public?
Not that I WOULD ever say such a thing...
For celebrities/public figures that are not members (which is just about all celebrities, lol) you are free to comment on them personally -just as you would be on any site. However, stay away from politics or other controversial social topics.
Quote: gordonm888Regarding members who are temporarily suspended or who have been nuked, they are not able to defend themselves on this forum -so we don't allow saying negative things about them here.
For celebrities/public figures that are not members (which is just about all celebrities, lol) you are free to comment on them personally -just as you would be on any site. However, stay away from politics or other controversial social topics.
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I'm pretty sure it's always been members of this forum receive insult protection. Non members do not.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Quote: gordonm888Regarding members who are temporarily suspended or who have been nuked, they are not able to defend themselves on this forum -so we don't allow saying negative things about them here.
For celebrities/public figures that are not members (which is just about all celebrities, lol) you are free to comment on them personally -just as you would be on any site. However, stay away from politics or other controversial social topics.
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I'm pretty sure it's always been members of this forum receive insult protection. Non members do not.
ZCore13
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Actually I specifically recall this subject being raised in the past and the answer from the Wizard was insults are not allowed period.
Insults are hurtful. This forum doesn't want that regardless of members status.
The same goes for doxxing of members versus non-members.
Quote: darkozActually I specifically recall this subject being raised in the past and the answer from the Wizard was insults are not allowed period.
Insults are hurtful. This forum doesn't want that regardless of members status.
The same goes for doxxing of members versus non-members.
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I don't remember everything I've said, but that is more or less my position. Members and former members have greater protection than public figures, but I've never had the need to elaborate on that. Nuked members have the same protection as members in good standing, as I don't believe in kicking a man when he's down.
Most forum rules boil down to simply, "be nice."
Quote: SeedvalueWhy are you on me ? I didn’t threaten anyone I said I’m willing to die because of a cause and I don’t care about the consequences? You already suspended me for a personal insult even tho I didn’t insult anyone it was just a general statement about people sucking at things for free. Do you have some personal problem with me we can debate here in the open ? I’m very confused:
Secondly I have a open question maybe we can discuss like civilized men.
Do you think the over moderation of This board has contributed to the overall decline in traffic and the open sharing of ideas among advantage players here ?
I respect the right for private business to have rules and standards but it would seem to me that some of these rules are being arbitrarily applied thus contributing to the slow decline of daily traffic and engagement. This is my opinion when looking at the sites overall traffic.
Not many people will stay after even one suspension. Let alone two. At least not anyone who has valuable information to share IMO
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You're splitting hairs. Offering to refer the phone numbers of the scammers to "made men" certainly sounds like it could turn violent, especially when you mention that your friends are ready to die as a matter of principal. Threats of violence on the forum are not acceptable.
You could have been more oblique in your offer. As you stated it, it's just barely acceptable. Take a step back from the cliff's edge, maybe.
As to traffic decline, "Over-moderation" is but one factor. Cautious AP's are, in my experience, hesitant to share live detailed information on an open forum. There are now numerous other venues for online AP networking that did not exist at peak traffic.
As to the "insult", it was a clear dig at a fellow forum member in good standing. Did you leave the address label blurry? Maybe. Does it rise to the level of insult? Maybe. Was it attacking the author, not the post? Definitely. Was the personal attack off topic and out of line for the forum? Yes.
Do I have a personal grudge against you? Not particularly; nothing comes to mind.
Quote: DieterQuote: SeedvalueWhy are you on me ? I didn’t threaten anyone I said I’m willing to die because of a cause and I don’t care about the consequences? You already suspended me for a personal insult even tho I didn’t insult anyone it was just a general statement about people sucking at things for free. Do you have some personal problem with me we can debate here in the open ? I’m very confused:
Secondly I have a open question maybe we can discuss like civilized men.
Do you think the over moderation of This board has contributed to the overall decline in traffic and the open sharing of ideas among advantage players here ?
I respect the right for private business to have rules and standards but it would seem to me that some of these rules are being arbitrarily applied thus contributing to the slow decline of daily traffic and engagement. This is my opinion when looking at the sites overall traffic.
Not many people will stay after even one suspension. Let alone two. At least not anyone who has valuable information to share IMO
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You're splitting hairs. Offering to refer the phone numbers of the scammers to "made men" certainly sounds like it could turn violent, especially when you mention that your friends are ready to die as a matter of principal. Threats of violence on the forum are not acceptable.
You could have been more oblique in your offer. As you stated it, it's just barely acceptable. Take a step back from the cliff's edge, maybe.
As to traffic decline, "Over-moderation" is but one factor. Cautious AP's are, in my experience, hesitant to share live detailed information on an open forum. There are now numerous other venues for online AP networking that did not exist at peak traffic.
As to the "insult", it was a clear dig at a fellow forum member in good standing. Did you leave the address label blurry? Maybe. Does it rise to the level of insult? Maybe. Was it attacking the author, not the post? Definitely. Was the personal attack off topic and out of line for the forum? Yes.
Do I have a personal grudge against you? Not particularly; nothing comes to mind.
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Fair enough I appreciate your response
Quote: SeedvalueFair enough I appreciate your response
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The rumors of my psychopathy have been somewhat exaggerated.
There are no hard feelings on my end.
Best of luck; enjoy the day.
Just curious.
Dog Hand
Quote: DogHandSpeaking of MDawg, why is he now restricted?
Just curious.
Dog Hand
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Wizard explains it here: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/34418-mdawgs-investments/35/#post857925
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
Quote: 100xOddslilredrooster got suspended because of this post in mdawg thread:
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
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Is it insulting to question the seriousness of an insult?
I hope I didn't insult anyone for asking.
ABC - Vanity Kills (USA Version) (1985) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJOYTZ6kr8M
There's also a mix version: ABC - Vanity kills (1985 The Mendelsohn mix) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTt-Q8ICj78
ABC - How To Be A Zillionaire (Wall Street Mix) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT_AqOcodKA
Quote: ChumpChangeOn heavy rotation on my phone music app in my car this past 3 months.
My AM radio doesn't have a rotation.
Quote: 100xOddslilredrooster got suspended because of this post in mdawg thread:
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
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How would you feel if I called you a narcissist?
Simple. Yes.Quote: 100xOddslilredrooster got suspended because of this post in mdawg thread:
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
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Quote: WizardQuote: 100xOddslilredrooster got suspended because of this post in mdawg thread:
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
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How would you feel if I called you a narcissist?
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Moving the goalposts. A narcissist lacks empathy. It’s also a psychological disorder. Rooster said neither of those things.
I’d posit that the vast majority of people very deeply loves themselves.
There are many things posted here that you wouldn't say at a dinner party.
Are you writing something in your post with the intent of insulting another forum member? If you are, then don't be surprised if you get suspended for insulting someone.
Quote: AlanMendelson
There are many things posted here that you wouldn't say at a dinner party.
I don't think I would be inviting many of these people to a dinner party.
Quote: gordonm888Here's a simple common-sense standard:
Are you writing something in your post with the intent of insulting another forum member? If you are, then don't be surprised if you get suspended for insulting someone.
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There are "insults," and there is sarcasm. It seems that some mods cannot differentiate between the two.
Some mods must believe that the affected party is spineless, intellectually unable to rebut, lacks the courage to stand up, etc. That, to me, is the ultimate "insult."
So, if one were to say of another that "you have a self-esteem problem," is that an "insult" or that just a permissible way of saying "you love yourself"? Let me know on that one so I can post that, when appropriate, in the future.
tuttigym
Quote: WizardQuote: 100xOddslilredrooster got suspended because of this post in mdawg thread:
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
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How would you feel if I called you a narcissist?
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First, I would consider the source. Second, I would respond in kind. Third, my skin is not so thin that I would be "offended." Fourth, if you were to go back to my first thread, you would see real insults against me which you somehow seem to let slide.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: gordonm888Here's a simple common-sense standard:
Are you writing something in your post with the intent of insulting another forum member? If you are, then don't be surprised if you get suspended for insulting someone.
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There are "insults," and there is sarcasm. It seems that some mods cannot differentiate between the two.
Some mods must believe that the affected party is spineless, intellectually unable to rebut, lacks the courage to stand up, etc. That, to me, is the ultimate "insult."
So, if one were to say of another that "you have a self-esteem problem," is that an "insult" or that just a permissible way of saying "you love yourself"? Let me know on that one so I can post that, when appropriate, in the future.
tuttigym
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Briefly, the idea is that we are not supposed to be discussing each other. We are not supposed to be making personal comments. Rather, you may discuss the post itself: the ideas, the tone, the language, etc. Not whether you think the poster has psychological problems such as 'self-esteem' issues, or narcissism (that he loves himself.)
We try to apply this rule evenly and inevitably we are not perfect. If you think you have been insulted, and your truly feel injured, you are free to post some examples or send a private message with the specific example to a moderator.
For example what led to the suspension of Ace2 with regards to me were:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/math/34502-easy-math-puzzles/51/#post839488
Directed to ThatDonGuy: "So your reading comprehension skills have lots of room for improvement"
Jan 28, 2022
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/34418-mdawgs-investments/34/#post853196
"I suggest you take a reading comprehension course and read them again"
June 14, 2022
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/34418-mdawgs-investments/35/#post857846
"Are you able to read and comprehend English at an adult level?"
Aug 8, 2022
and what led to my suspension with regards to Ace2 were:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/34418-mdawgs-investments/35/#post857656
“I've been doing this for a long time. Before you question me, you had first better learn how to read a stock chart.”
Aug 6, 2022
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/34418-mdawgs-investments/35/#post857655
“ Ace2, it seems like you are asking 'how to be a trader.' To start with, have to be able to read a chart correctly. ”
” Just takes time to get to my level. It's no shame that you can't understand what is going on, or why. ”
Aug 6, 2022
I like Ace2 and we have got along fine in the past, so I'm sorry that I started down that path of implied or open insults.
Quote: gordon888Briefly, the idea is that we are not supposed to be discussing each other. We are not supposed to be making personal comments. Rather, you may discuss the post itself: the ideas, the tone, the language, etc. Not whether you think the poster has psychological problems such as 'self-esteem' issues, or narcissism (that he loves himself.)
Often times posters talk about themselves which leads to comparisons on a personal level. The posts are expressions of who we are, our intellect, our experiences, our prejudices, and our shortcomings. So, when we engage in various conversations, we expose not only information but opinions that are not necessarily based on fact. Eventually, hopefully, we move on to the next conversation. I have learned that if someone is "unhappy" with another individual or idea, it is THEIR problem.
tuttigym
If a post riles you take a short break before responding; chill out; then post.
If you still feel compelled to flame and are willing to take a bullet, so be it.
Wiz's house, Wiz's rules.
Quote: MrVSure, but every once in awhile somebody posts something so stupid, so unbelievable, that they deserve a sound bitch-slap: but is a suspension worth the satisfaction of saying what you felt needed to be said?
If a post riles you take a short break before responding; chill out; then post.
If you still feel compelled to flame and are willing to take a bullet, so be it.
Wiz's house, Wiz's rules.
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(emphasis added)
The emphasized phrase really encapsulates the essential spirit.
My daughter chewed me out after I got into a rather emphatic disagreement with my mother in law at the last thing that could vaguely count as a "dinner party". I absolutely agreed with my suspension (I might get out when two weeks are up, Sunday-ish), but it was worth it, and I'll take my lumps.
Since some people prefer to have fun at a "dinner party", I don't think many would want to attend the type of dinner party he's talking about.Quote: DRichQuote: AlanMendelson
There are many things posted here that you wouldn't say at a dinner party.
I don't think I would be inviting many of these people to a dinner party.
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I can't think of anything I have said on the forums that I wouldn't say IRL.
If the shoe fit...Quote: WizardQuote: 100xOddslilredrooster got suspended because of this post in mdawg thread:
"this thread is a really long story about a man who is very deeply in love
with himself"
That's an insult?!?
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How would you feel if I called you a narcissist?
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Quote: AxelWolfIf the shoe fit...
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Just because an insult may be true, doesn't give it an exemption to the rule against personal insults.
For example, my history in Wordle plainly shows I suck at the game, but it doesn't mean anybody, except me, can say that.
Given that I don't see him in red, well then I assume that the "If the shoe fit" [sic] comment made by AWolf must refer to himself?
Yes, we all know this, however, he didn't call anyone that, heck, he didn't even mention anyone's name.Quote: WizardQuote: AxelWolfIf the shoe fit...
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Just because an insult may be true, doesn't give it an exemption to the rule against personal insults.
For example, my history in Wordle plainly shows I suck at the game, but it doesn't mean anybody, except me, can say that.
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Amazing.
Personally, for fairly mild insults I try to take into account
- whether the thread is becoming contentious with two or more members feuding
- whether the comment seems intended to be humorous
- whether the recipient seems to be offended
- whether the mild insult is a reasonable response to a claim of personal "exceptionalism"
e.g., if Wizard posted on the Wordle thread a boast that he was an exceptionally good Wordle player, I would understand if someone responded with "based on your record in this thread, my opinion is that you suck a little bit at this game."
Again, your mileage may vary with different moderators. We all understand the concept of over-moderation and we try to strike a reasonable balance.
*Although, the moderators tend to swap their viewpoints with each other on specific cases, via PMs.
We have this alleged high-rolling Jetsetting multimillionaire who felt insulted when someone pointed out what many already believe. Apparently, he felt so insulted that he had to run and rat to The Wizard.
Quote: AxelWolfThe funny thing is...
We have this alleged high-rolling Jetsetting multimillionaire who felt insulted when someone pointed out what many already believe. Apparently, he felt so insulted that he had to run and rat to The Wizard.
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Indeed.
Sometimes I think that certain threads in this forum should be renamed "Fantasy Island."
It's frustrating when you can just tell someone is lying through their teeth yet the rules prohibit you from saying so, indeed they protect the claimant.
I guess false speech qualifies as free speech.
Quote: MrV
Indeed.
Sometimes I think that certain threads in this forum should be renamed "Fantasy Island."
It's frustrating when you can just tell someone is lying through their teeth yet the rules prohibit you from saying so, indeed they protect the claimant.
I guess false speech qualifies as free speech.
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I don't think it's against the rules of this forum to just say you don't believe what someone is claiming. It just depends on how you say it.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: MrV
Indeed.
Sometimes I think that certain threads in this forum should be renamed "Fantasy Island."
It's frustrating when you can just tell someone is lying through their teeth yet the rules prohibit you from saying so, indeed they protect the claimant.
I guess false speech qualifies as free speech.
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I don't think it's against the rules of this forum to just say you don't believe what someone is claiming. It just depends on how you say it.
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How about: That statement/post is hard to believe?
tuttigym
It's just that untrammeled zeal often leads to a respondent crossing the line and getting suspended.
It would be prudent to learn where the line is and how to get close to it without crossing over.
Quote: MrVYes, that would work.
It's just that untrammeled zeal often leads to a respondent crossing the line and getting suspended.
It would be prudent to learn where the line is and how to get close to it without crossing over.
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This gif is always a good response:
Quote: TigerWu
I don't think it's against the rules of this forum to just say you don't believe what someone is claiming. It just depends on how you say it.
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That is correct!
If one posts "I cannot believe what xxx has posted" or "I do not believe that xxx did that", then that is a statement of your own inability to believe, or an assertion that you are not yet persuaded.
Moderators are judged to a higher standard and we are not allowed to use such a get out.
Also, if the claim being contested is particularly defamatory or constitutes an allegation of criminality, then that is likely to be deemed a slur or insult.
E.g. If someone were to say "I don't believe you are a doctor", then the accusatory nature of that post would likely get the poster suspended.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: MrVYes, that would work.
It's just that untrammeled zeal often leads to a respondent crossing the line and getting suspended.
It would be prudent to learn where the line is and how to get close to it without crossing over.
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This gif is always a good response:
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Quote: OnceDearQuote: TigerWu
I don't think it's against the rules of this forum to just say you don't believe what someone is claiming. It just depends on how you say it.
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That is correct!
If one posts "I cannot believe what xxx has posted" or "I do not believe that xxx did that", then that is a statement of your own inability to believe, or an assertion that you are not yet persuaded.
Moderators are judged to a higher standard and we are not allowed to use such a get out.
Also, if the claim being contested is particularly defamatory or constitutes an allegation of criminality, then that is likely to be deemed a slur or insult.
E.g. If someone were to say "I don't believe you are a doctor", then the accusatory nature of that post would likely get the poster suspended.
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Thanks, clear as mud now…!
Quote: AxelWolfThe funny thing is...
We have this alleged high-rolling Jetsetting multimillionaire who felt insulted
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Quote: AxelWolfIt has nothing to do with being rich or poor.
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Is it possible to take someone seriously who appears to be talking out of both sides of his mouth? I just found one example, but I'd say there are many others I could bring up if requested.
Quote: MDawgAxelWolf - the UNadmitted arbiter of the set.
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Why is there a need to take me seriously regarding that post? ? Was there something I said in that post that was incorrect?Quote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfThe funny thing is...
We have this alleged high-rolling Jetsetting multimillionaire who felt insulted
link to original postQuote: AxelWolfIt has nothing to do with being rich or poor.
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Is it possible to take someone seriously who appears to be talking out of both sides of his mouth? I just found one example, but I'd say there are many others I could bring up if requested.Quote: MDawgAxelWolf - the UNadmitted arbiter of the set.
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