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SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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November 12th, 2019 at 1:34:41 PM permalink
I recently read about Micky Crimm. I had never heard his name before, so I Googled him and found his interview on Bob Dancer's radio show. In this interview, he describes making money playing advantage slots and keno games in Montana. Having recently made a trip to Montana, this interested me. All the VP games I saw in Montana were class II.

Mickey states that he finds advantage opportunities when a progressive is large enough to overcome a 5% house edge. I have never seen progressives like he describes in this Interview. It seems to me a progressive would have to be very large to make a game like that positive. The video poker games I play are 97%. How big does a royal progressive have to be to overcome a 3% house advantage? Can anyone make a profit playing slots and Keno today?
Last edited by: SingleCoinVP on Nov 12, 2019
tringlomane
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CrystalMath
November 12th, 2019 at 1:48:04 PM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

I recently read about Micky Crimm. I had never heard his name before, so I Googled him and found his interview on Bob Dancer's radio show. In this interview, he describes making money playing advantage slots and keno games in Montana. Having recently made a trip to Montana, this interested me. All the VP I found in Montana was class II.

Mickey states that he finds advantage opportunities when a progressive is large enough to overcome a 5% house edge. I have never seen progressives like he describes in this Interview. It seems to me a progressive would have to be very large to make a game like that positive. The video poker games I play are 97%. How big does a progressive have to be to overcome a 3% house advantage?



VP in Montana is definitely NOT Class II!
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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November 12th, 2019 at 1:57:58 PM permalink
We drove from Seattle to Denver on vacation. When we found a casino, we stopped to check out the games. Montana was full of tiny casinos. It seemed there was one on every block. We walked into two of them. The video poker machines we found were definitely class II machines. The cards were automatically held. That's not my question. Can a progressive ever get large enough to overcome a 3-5% house edge? Could an AP make a living playing games like that?
DRich
DRich
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November 12th, 2019 at 2:03:18 PM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

We drove from Seattle to Denver on vacation. When we found a casino, we stopped to check out the games. Montana was full of tiny casinos. It seemed there was one on every block. We walked into two of them. The video poker machines we found were definitely class II machines. The cards were automatically held. That's not my question. Can a progressive ever get large enough to overcome a 3-5% house edge? Could an AP make a living playing games like that?



Yes, continue reading all of the posts and articles from Mickey Crimm and he explains exactly what he does. It is a lot of work and a lot of travel scouting locations, and you won't get rich but you could probably make a good living doing it ($50,000 to $100,000).

I believe most of his plays in Montana are on video keno.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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November 12th, 2019 at 2:06:17 PM permalink
I am struggling with what constitutes an advantage game. I can see how you can tell the odds on a video poker machine. How can anyone tell the odds on a slot machine? If you have two slot machines side by side and one has a bigger progressive, is that machine better? How about Keno? I never though Keno was beatable.
AxelWolf
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November 12th, 2019 at 2:36:34 PM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

I am struggling with what constitutes an advantage game. I can see how you can tell the odds on a video poker machine. How can anyone tell the odds on a slot machine? If you have two slot machines side by side and one has a bigger progressive, is that machine better? How about Keno? I never though Keno was beatable.

That's because you're too busy obsessing over Bob Dancer and defending your one coin video poker play.
I can't say for sure, but if Mickey has been reading all your posts here, I have a feeling you're the type of guy he would want to curb stomp.

And no, I don't advocate or wish anybody to be curb-stomped.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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November 12th, 2019 at 2:51:28 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

That's because you're too busy obsessing over Bob Dancer and defending your one coin video poker play.
I can't say for sure, but if Mickey has been reading all your posts here, I have a feeling you're the type of guy he would want to curb stomp.

And no, I don't advocate or wish anybody to be curb-stomped.

Over the years I have been playing VP, I have been told many times that I have advantage games available to me but I refuse to play them. When I ask sincere questions, I get answers like that above. I would play advantage games if I found one. So far, I haven't found one. Perhaps I don't know what an advantage game is?

This makes we wonder why these forums exist? Are they here to provide a place where players can brag about their accomplishments or a place where people are taught to be better players? Micky Crimm seems like an interesting fellow. He doesn't play mega expensive games. He doesn't live in Vegas. He claims to win playing games that Bob Dancer never talks about. If he can make money in Montana of all places, perhaps someone can do the same in Florida?
Mission146
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November 12th, 2019 at 3:05:12 PM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

I am struggling with what constitutes an advantage game. I can see how you can tell the odds on a video poker machine. How can anyone tell the odds on a slot machine? If you have two slot machines side by side and one has a bigger progressive, is that machine better? How about Keno? I never though Keno was beatable.



The odds on Keno are not only as easy to determine as they are on Video Poker, but unlike Video Poker, there is no, "Optimal," strategy which also makes the odds/probabilities of the base game constant. In other words, you hit the button and there is no mathematically correct decision to make other than whether or not you should play.

The keno plays in Montana are predicated upon this concept, and without giving away too much information, positive situations can often be found on higher probability events as opposed to low probability ones. If you don't understand the meaning of the previous sentence, PM me.

In any case, a 'straight up' Keno game is extremely easy to determine. You use the Keno Calculator on Wizard of Odds and plug in the pays appropriately. Other Keno games may have situations or 'Special' numbers where you have to determine the probability (and value) of different results in order to determine the overall value of the base game as well as the added value of the Progressive. Rarer are Keno games where the probability of certain events cannot be known without a ton of observation, and even then, only a highly educated guess can be made.
Vultures can't be choosers.
smurgerburger
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ForagerRS
November 12th, 2019 at 3:08:26 PM permalink
For such an authority on the unbeatableness of machines your knowledge of the subject suffers some remarkable lacunae.
DRich
DRich
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November 12th, 2019 at 3:21:23 PM permalink
After you read all of Mickey's posts you will understand. He even shows the math in many of them.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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