Thread Rating:

ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
• Threads: 6
• Posts: 860
November 12th, 2019 at 8:30:10 PM permalink
Quote: BlueEagle

Speaking of a progressive question, hopefully I can interject my own (silly newbie) questions. Does a progressive video poker machine have the same odds of winning as a non-progressive machine? Does a certain portion of the bet go to the progressive? I know a place that starts the 25-cent progressive at \$1500 and wondered if the machines could be set by the house to pay out less often in order to pay for the progressive...

Is the paytable the only factor that determines the house edge? Or can houses adjust how loose or tight the machines are without changing the paytables. I've heard "rumors" that machines tend to pay out more at the end of a period to meet the required payouts.

Yes, for a video poker machine, the pay table is the only factor that determines the house edge. That's because the machine's virtual deck matches a real deck. (For example, the probability of making a flush by drawing to four-to-a-flush is 9/47 for a jacks-or-better video poker machine and for a real deck.) As the Wizard writes on https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/video-poker/, "Video poker is a fair video representation of a single-player draw poker game."

The NJ Gaming Enforcement regulations state the above this way:
Quote: N.J.A.C. 13:69E-1.28A

... (g) A slot machine game that requires strategy choices, such as video poker, shall:
1. Have its theoretical RTP calculated based upon the player exercising optimal strategy during game play;
2. Disclose optimal strategy to achieve the highest theoretical RTP; or
3. Provide mathematically sufficient information for the patron to derive optimal strategy in order to achieve the highest theoretical RTP. ...

MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
• Threads: 13
• Posts: 3634
November 12th, 2019 at 9:03:18 PM permalink
Quote: vegas

2.5 times the normal royal. Wow. Guess I have to travel around a bit more on my next visit.

Have fun playing 6/5 JoB
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
• Threads: 24
• Posts: 1077
November 12th, 2019 at 11:02:18 PM permalink
My memory is outdated but a bank of dollar VP machines that has a Jackpot that goes up from \$4,000 on max coin and may not hit for awhile (months?) would be positive EV with a Jackpot of \$8,666 (?) on an 8/5 JoB machine; or a Jackpot of \$4880 (?) on a bank of 9/6 JoB machines. So teams of players would be on the lookout for progressives above certain amounts on certain machines, and casinos hated it and would ban teams from the casinos. Go figure!

PROGRESSIVE VS NON-PROGRESSIVE VIDEO POKER JACKPOTS
https://www.realmoneyaction.com/video-poker/progressive-vs-non-progressive-video-poker-jackpots/
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
• Threads: 165
• Posts: 9600
November 12th, 2019 at 11:08:15 PM permalink
Are any of the progressive kenos in Montana new? I don't see anyone making them anymore.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
• Threads: 124
• Posts: 2542
November 13th, 2019 at 12:09:47 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Have fun playing 6/5 JoB

6-5 DDB with a 2500 reset is fairly common in bars around town. There's a lot of progressives for quarters that reset above \$1000. Some are not bad, some are never playable. I'm not going to comment on the decent ones I have found. The blisters on my feet, I earned them myself. The info stays where it should, in my own personal notes.

(I'm not talking to you, Max, I suspect you already know more than I do anyway.)*

ssshhhhh, be very very quiet, Axel might be listening.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
• Threads: 10
• Posts: 253
November 13th, 2019 at 3:51:09 AM permalink
Thanks for the information. I have only played Keno a few times. I have never seen a Keno progressive. Is this a Montana thing or do they have them elsewhere? What I have seen are video poker progressives. I can clearly understand that a progressive can grow large enough to make it an advantage game. Where we play the casinos reduce the odds on the progressive machines. The Tampa Hard Rock has a 97% dollar royal progressive. I check it once in a while and have never seen it over \$5,000. I always wonder how large it would have to be before this games turns positive?

Where we play video poker advantage games are extinct. There may be a few still lurking somewhere. This does not keep me from playing video poker. The vast majority of the time I play max coins. I do this for two reasons, I like the comps and I like hitting \$1,000 royals. I do play a small amount of dollar video poker. I do this at the end of the day, so I don't feed my winnings back into the machines. I can't change the games at the Hard Rock, but I can hold my cost to play to a reasonable level.

None of what I do has anything whatsoever to do with making a profit. There is no possible way anyone can beat the games we play long term. I don't get paid for playing advantage games computer perfect. When I get paid, it's for being lucky.
Last edited by: SingleCoinVP on Nov 13, 2019
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
• Threads: 108
• Posts: 6846
November 13th, 2019 at 4:06:28 AM permalink
By definition, every game that has a progressive has an exact amount that turns the game from -EV to +EV. Assuming you are also figuring comps/ free play/tier value/taxes into it, it is not as simple o figure out. If you are just using the base game + the progressive, it's pretty easy to figure when it turns positive. How positive it has to get to make it worthwhile is a personal decision, also factoring in your bankroll, and the opportunity cost that you are losing by not doing something better.
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
• Threads: 10
• Posts: 253
November 13th, 2019 at 4:18:12 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

How positive it has to get to make it worthwhile is a personal decision, also factoring in your bankroll, and the opportunity cost that you are losing by not doing something better.

Not everyone can accept the same level of risk. A progressive may be a winner on paper and a loser in reality. Professional gamblers take those risks all the time. Personally, I would rather risk my money where I have more control over the result and the profits are more than a few percent. Some people believe the stock market is a casino. If it is, I have been beating that casino for years. Many of you have as well. Like video poker, there are proven strategies. They don't involve the whims of a RNG and you never get banned or your comps downgraded. Gambling to me is entertainment and nothing else.
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
• Threads: 144
• Posts: 18133
Thanks for this post from:
November 13th, 2019 at 4:31:26 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

Not everyone can accept the same level of risk. A progressive may be a winner on paper and a loser in reality. Professional gamblers take those risks all the time. Personally, I would rather risk my money where I have more control over the result and the profits are more than a few percent. Some people believe the stock market is a casino. If it is, I have been beating that casino for years. Many of you have as well. Like video poker, there are proven strategies. They don't involve the whims of a RNG and you never get banned or your comps downgraded. Gambling to me is entertainment and nothing else.

So basically you were just trying to call in to question Mickey Crimm's claims in a coy way.

That's kind of what I assumed in the first place.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
• Threads: 10
• Posts: 253
November 13th, 2019 at 5:50:48 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

So basically you were just trying to call in to question Mickey Crimm's claims in a coy way.

That's kind of what I assumed in the first place.

Not true. I'm am curious about Mickey Crimm and what he does in a casino. Here is a guy that doesn't require taking huge risks to beat the casino. I can get behind that concept. Compare that with telling people \$5 games are more profitable than playing quarters. Even if it's true, someone is going to get hurt and it's not going to be a casino.

I am not a crusader for or against APs, professional gamblers or anyone who posts on this website. Most of the casino goers that I know enjoy a day at the casino as an escape not a job. None of them have positive games to play. All of them pay to play. I want these players to be part of the discussion.

• Jump to: