General Sports Talk
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69 members have voted
Quote: DRichQuote: billryanDoes LJ make the NBA if he was 6-3 and not 6-9?
I would assume so because when he was younger he played a lot of bringing the ball up like a point guard.
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He certainly wouldn't have made the leap from HS to the pros if he was 6-3. I'd wager few would ever have heard of him if he were that height.
You can argue that motorsports is not athletics and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree. A large part of being a successful race car driver is opportunity. I might possess the talent to be a top open wheel driver. How would I know?
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichExactly, what is elite? Bobby/Brett Hull seems close to me but I never thought of Brett in the same category as Gretzky, LeMieux, or Orr. I am probably closed minded but I am literally trying to think of pairs who were likely some of the best to ever play. I definitely wouldn't put Petr Korda and Nelly Korda in that conversation. Which are the Winfield's you are referring to?
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Antoine and his son. I guess you don’t pay any attention to the NFL. If you don’t call Bobby and Brett Hull ‘elite’ then nothing worth discussing with you on the subject.
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I don't disagree that Brett Hull was not elite but I would not put him in the same category as the best to ever play. Remember this thread was comparing Lebron James and his son, I would put Lebron in the category of one of the best to ever play but I realize that is subjective.
. You are right (snicker). There were 4 guys who scored more goals than Brett Hull so he wasn’t elite enough. Gotta be top 4?Quote: DRichQuote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichExactly, what is elite? Bobby/Brett Hull seems close to me but I never thought of Brett in the same category as Gretzky, LeMieux, or Orr. I am probably closed minded but I am literally trying to think of pairs who were likely some of the best to ever play. I definitely wouldn't put Petr Korda and Nelly Korda in that conversation. Which are the Winfield's you are referring to?
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Antoine and his son. I guess you don’t pay any attention to the NFL. If you don’t call Bobby and Brett Hull ‘elite’ then nothing worth discussing with you on the subject.
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I don't disagree that Brett Hull was not elite but I would not put him in the same category as the best to ever play. Remember this thread was comparing Lebron James and his son, I would put Lebron in the category of one of the best to ever play but I realize that is subjective.
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The whole mess of this conversation depends on your definition of elite. If you watch televised sports the word elite is tossed around frequently. ‘He’s an elite pass rusher’. ‘He’s an elite cornerback’. ‘He’s an elite skater’. ‘He’s an elite curve ball hitter’.
HE’S AN ELITE ROULETTE PLAYER!
the Astro pitchers combined - Christian Javier - and 3 relievers - for the 2nd no hitter in World Series history - pretty cool
Don Larsen threw one for the Yankees in 1956
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Quote: SOOPOO
HE’S AN ELITE ROULETTE PLAYER!
Nobody would dispute that. Probably the best roulette player ever.
Quote: lilredrooster_____________
the Astro pitchers combined - Christian Javier - and 3 relievers - for the 2nd no hitter in World Series history - pretty cool
Don Larsen threw one for the Yankees in 1956
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Combined no-hitters don't do much for me. A complete-game no-hitter tells me the pitcher had a great outing. A three or four-pitcher no-hitter tells me the batters were having a bad night.
No one pitcher has no-hit the Yankees in my lifetime, while I think teams have tossed two or three combined ones. I think the Strohs no-hit them with six pitchers twenty years ago.
Great series so far.
Quote: billryanQuote: lilredrooster_____________
the Astro pitchers combined - Christian Javier - and 3 relievers - for the 2nd no hitter in World Series history - pretty cool
Don Larsen threw one for the Yankees in 1956
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Combined no-hitters don't do much for me. A complete-game no-hitter tells me the pitcher had a great outing.
Javier threw 6 no hit innings and struck out 9 batters - he was described as being unhittable
pretty damn impressive to me - not sure why he was pulled - don't really care - I guess I'm not as difficult to impress as you are
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I wonder which one Philly and Houston fans will be watching? :)
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryanQuote: lilredrooster_____________
the Astro pitchers combined - Christian Javier - and 3 relievers - for the 2nd no hitter in World Series history - pretty cool
Don Larsen threw one for the Yankees in 1956
.
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Combined no-hitters don't do much for me. A complete-game no-hitter tells me the pitcher had a great outing.
Javier threw 6 no hit innings and struck out 9 batters - he was described as being unhittable
He was very impressive, as was his start against the Yankees. He was taken out because he gave them what they needed, and they might need him later in game 6 or 7 I'm just not excited about the no-hitter. To me a no-hitter is a complete game, preferably a shut out.
A generation ago, a Yankee threw a no-hitter and lost 4-0. Because it was on the road, he only pitched eight innings but got credit for a complete game no-hitter. It was a farce and led to some rule changes.The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
You can rank teams based on performance, in which TCU has clearly outperformed Alabama. Or you can rank them based on which team would be favored to win by oddsmakers on a neutral field. But the rankings often deviate from the odds. The rankings are arbitrary, they should determine nothing, and they should stop being displayed on games and sports shows.
Quote: DRichJavier threw 97 pitches in 6 innings. The last World Series no hitter by Don Larsen he threw 97 pitches for the whole game.
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Larsen threw a perfect game. Far more complicated than a no-hitter.
There have been approx. 325 no-hitters in MLB, less than 25 were perfect games. I believe Paul O'Neill is the only player to have been on the field for three perfect games.
Quote: billryanQuote: DRichJavier threw 97 pitches in 6 innings. The last World Series no hitter by Don Larsen he threw 97 pitches for the whole game.
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Larsen threw a perfect game. Far more complicated than a no-hitter.
There have been approx. 325 no-hitters in MLB, less than 25 were perfect games. I believe Paul O'Neill is the only player to have been on the field for three perfect games.
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I have been to probably 40 MLB games but I did see a perfect game by Len Barker of the Cleveland Indians in 1981.
Quote: JimRockfordI understand why Houston went to the bullpen after Javier threw 97 pitches. But 20 years ago I don’t think any manager would dare replace a pitcher who hadn’t allowed a hit unless he was showing signs of fatigue or he had completely lost the strike zone or something.
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It had been changing, but I think what happened to Johann Santana sealed the deal.
Quote: JimRockfordI understand why Houston went to the bullpen after Javier threw 97 pitches. But 20 years ago I don’t think any manager would dare replace a pitcher who hadn’t allowed a hit unless he was showing signs of fatigue or he had completely lost the strike zone or something.
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The trend now is to get six or seven innings from your starter, get 1 or 2 from your middle reliever, then go to your closer, That's what the Sabremetrics folks say to do now. Manager would've been hung in effigy 20 years ago. Houston won. And in a World Series, that's what counts.
Gene
Quote: JackSpadeThe AP top 25 rankings are a sham and always have been. Alabama (7-1) is ranked higher than TCU (8-0) even though TCU has beaten 4 top-25 teams while Alabama has beaten only 2.
You can rank teams based on performance, in which TCU has clearly outperformed Alabama. Or you can rank them based on which team would be favored to win by oddsmakers on a neutral field. But the rankings often deviate from the odds. The rankings are arbitrary, they should determine nothing, and they should stop being displayed on games and sports shows.
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D1 college football absolutely refuses to go to a meaningful playoff system, so we get what we get,
Gene
Chas McCormick's fabulous catch against the outfield wall in the bottom of the 9th helped helped give the Astros a 3-2 lead in the series
Justin Verlander was the winning pitcher for the Astros. Before last night he was 0-6 with a 6.07 era in 8 previous World Series starts
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Flghtline is the odds on morning line fave in the Breeders Cup Classic at 3/5. his live odds are currently 1/9
some are calling Flightline one of the fastest horses ever - his name is being mentioned with the all time greats such as Secretariat and Man O War and Citation
only one horse ever got a Beyer speed figure better than his 126 in the Pacific Classic
none have ever had - according to the article - a 5 race string of Beyers like this:
105, 114, 118, 112 and 126
he has won his 5 races by a combined 63 lengths and all but one race was won by more than 11 lengths - and 3 of them were high level Grade 1 races
he didn't run in TC events so he's not all that famous
the race is scheduled for 5:40 ET today and will be televised by NBC
the vid is Flightline's incredible 20 length win in the Pacific Classic - at 1 and one quarter miles - the farthest horses ever race on dirt:
https://theathletic.com/3755295/2022/11/04/breeders-cup-favorite-flightline-fastest-ever/
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Quote: DRichI was supposed to be at the Alabama-LSU game tonight in Baton Rouge. Sadly, I had to cancel because I missed too much time from work during the hurricane. I have always wanted to go to a college game in Baton Rouge. One of the very few stadiums that I would like to see and never have.
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That is too bad but you will have other opportunities. I assume you were driving but that is quite a drive from your area.
Quote: vegasQuote: DRichI was supposed to be at the Alabama-LSU game tonight in Baton Rouge. Sadly, I had to cancel because I missed too much time from work during the hurricane. I have always wanted to go to a college game in Baton Rouge. One of the very few stadiums that I would like to see and never have.
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That is too bad but you will have other opportunities. I assume you were driving but that is quite a drive from your area.
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Sadly, I had non-refundable airline tickets that are going to waste. It would have been a 12 hour drive and i tend to prefer flying if over 4 hours away. I try to take one football trip a year to see a campus that I haven't been to before.
Top row endzone: $670
Best seats (highest asking prices): $5,000
Quote: vegasRaces horses like this don't come around very often. I will be watching.
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I had him to win at 2/5 - and no I'm not bragging - the pick was so very obvious
I just about never bet horses bet down that low
I was shocked that they let him off that high - I thought he couldn't possibly go off at higher than 1/5
on paper he was so much faster than his rivals
that's the affect of the soft money on the big race days - the big race only bettors love the shots
he paid back $2.88 to win - normally a 2/5 shot would pay back $2.80
a while ago the Kentucky tracks went to penny breakage
a very good thing - hopefully it will put pressure on all the tracks to do that
because of that - in this instance - the profit increased by 10%
.
Quote: GenoDRPhQuote: JackSpadeThe AP top 25 rankings are a sham and always have been. Alabama (7-1) is ranked higher than TCU (8-0) even though TCU has beaten 4 top-25 teams while Alabama has beaten only 2.
You can rank teams based on performance, in which TCU has clearly outperformed Alabama. Or you can rank them based on which team would be favored to win by oddsmakers on a neutral field. But the rankings often deviate from the odds. The rankings are arbitrary, they should determine nothing, and they should stop being displayed on games and sports shows.
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D1 college football absolutely refuses to go to a meaningful playoff system, so we get what we get,
Gene
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TCU wins again to stay undefeated, Tennessee loses, but I guess TCU won't rise in the rankings until a team ranked above them incurs 2 losses. Maybe LSU will help them out.
Quote: JackSpadeQuote: GenoDRPhQuote: JackSpadeThe AP top 25 rankings are a sham and always have been. Alabama (7-1) is ranked higher than TCU (8-0) even though TCU has beaten 4 top-25 teams while Alabama has beaten only 2.
You can rank teams based on performance, in which TCU has clearly outperformed Alabama. Or you can rank them based on which team would be favored to win by oddsmakers on a neutral field. But the rankings often deviate from the odds. The rankings are arbitrary, they should determine nothing, and they should stop being displayed on games and sports shows.
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D1 college football absolutely refuses to go to a meaningful playoff system, so we get what we get,
Gene
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TCU wins again to stay undefeated, Tennessee loses, but I guess TCU won't rise in the rankings until a team ranked above them incurs 2 losses. Maybe LSU will help them out.
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Based on the games that I have watched I don't think TCU is better than the teams ranked ahead of them. I would make TCU a 9 point underdog to Alabama on a neutral site. I rooted for TCU for many years because I liked coach Patterson and followed him since he was at New Mexico.
Alabama won at Texas earlier this year by only 1 point. Next week TCU plays at Texas - which has lost to 2 teams that TCU defeated (Texas Tech and Oklahoma State).
Quote: JackSpadeI'd take TCU over Bama if you gave me 9 points.
Alabama won at Texas earlier this year by only 1 point. Next week TCU plays at Texas - which has lost to 2 teams that TCU defeated (Texas Tech and Oklahoma State).
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If TCU wins out they will have a real chance to make the playoff. If they lose a single game they will be out because the Big 12 is so weak this year.
Quote: lilredrooster_________________
Flghtline is the odds on morning line fave in the Breeders Cup Classic at 3/5. his live odds are currently 1/9
some are calling Flightline one of the fastest horses ever - his name is being mentioned with the all time greats such as Secretariat and Man O War and Citation
only one horse ever got a Beyer speed figure better than his 126 in the Pacific Classic
none have ever had - according to the article - a 5 race string of Beyers like this:
105, 114, 118, 112 and 126
he has won his 5 races by a combined 63 lengths and all but one race was won by more than 11 lengths - and 3 of them were high level Grade 1 races
he didn't run in TC events so he's not all that famous
the race is scheduled for 5:40 ET today and will be televised by NBC
the vid is Flightline's incredible 20 length win in the Pacific Classic - at 1 and one quarter miles - the farthest horses ever race on dirt:
https://theathletic.com/3755295/2022/11/04/breeders-cup-favorite-flightline-fastest-ever/
.
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Not the longest race on dirt. Not even close. Belmont Stakes 1.5 miles, a full quarter mile longer.
Quote: JackSpadeClemson is getting blown out by Notre Dame, which will leave TCU and only 3 other teams undefeated. Ohio State and Michigan still have to play each other, so at least one more will go down.
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They won’t be able to keep an undefeated TCU team out if the final 4. Georgia, TCU, winner of Mich/Ohio St, and….???
Mississippi? Tennessee? USC? Loser of OSU/Mich? Oregon? UCLA?
I think TCU get #4 ranking from ‘the committee’ this week, even with so so performance against Texas Tech.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: JackSpadeClemson is getting blown out by Notre Dame, which will leave TCU and only 3 other teams undefeated. Ohio State and Michigan still have to play each other, so at least one more will go down.
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They won’t be able to keep an undefeated TCU team out if the final 4. Georgia, TCU, winner of Mich/Ohio St, and….???
Mississippi? Tennessee? USC? Loser of OSU/Mich? Oregon? UCLA?
I think TCU get #4 ranking from ‘the committee’ this week, even with so so performance against Texas Tech.
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Yup. AP should be Georgia, OSU, Mich, TCU.
The frogs are also being priced as underdogs in their upcoming game at Texas.
I think TCU is still getting no respect because it has given up 27.3 points per game - far more than other top 10 teams. The pressure is always on the offense to put up big numbers to compensate for a weak defense. Everyone assumes that TCU would get run over by a well balanced team that has both strong offense and strong defense. But so far it has been unprofitable to wager any money on that assumption.
Texas is notorious for underperforming expectations (i.e., being overrated). I'd bet on TCU to outperform once again.
Quote: SOOPOO
They won’t be able to keep an undefeated TCU team out if the final 4. Georgia, TCU, winner of Mich/Ohio St, and….???
I am not as sure about that as you are. I would think they would make it but it wouldn't shock me if a one loss Tennessee (losing to Georgia) or a one loss Ohio State or Michigan (losing to Ohio State or Michigan) would jump them. Remember 2014 when a number 3 TCU won their last game 55-3 and fell to number 6 in the polls.
Sadly, the Big 12 doesn't get a lot of consideration unless it is Oklahoma or Texas because they draw the fans.
‘Mattress Mack’ wins record $72.6M in World Series wagers on Astros
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: vegasRaces horses like this don't come around very often. I will be watching.
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I had him to win at 2/5 - and no I'm not bragging - the pick was so very obvious
I just about never bet horses bet down that low
I was shocked that they let him off that high - I thought he couldn't possibly go off at higher than 1/5
on paper he was so much faster than his rivals
that's the affect of the soft money on the big race days - the big race only bettors love the shots
he paid back $2.88 to win - normally a 2/5 shot would pay back $2.80
a while ago the Kentucky tracks went to penny breakage
a very good thing - hopefully it will put pressure on all the tracks to do that
because of that - in this instance - the profit increased by 10%
.
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You are not the only one who was surprised he paid that much to win. Many people who go to big races are not the average bettor and they get a big thrill out of betting longshots.
My biggest problem with racing today is when a legit superstar emerges he only races a few times and then retires to stud. The public gets no thrill from a horse that only races 6 or 7 times. When a horse keeps racing everyone starts to take notice and it is great for racing as people flock to whatever track the horse is at.
Maybe the best standard bred to ever race was Niatross. He was unbeaten as a two year old 13-0. He came back as a three year old and everywhere he raced the crowds show up. He finished his career at 37 wins in 39 starts. The best thing that could happen to racing was him returning to race as a three year old.
Secretariat raced 21 times and was known all over the world unlike horses of today. Flighline made more in one race than Secretariat made in his lifetime.
Quote: vegas
Secretariat raced 21 times and was known all over the world unlike horses of today. Flighline made more in one race than Secretariat made in his lifetime.
Does that include Secretariats stud fees?
Quote: vegas
My biggest problem with racing today is when a legit superstar emerges he only races a few times and then retires to stud. The public gets no thrill from a horse that only races 6 or 7 times. When a horse keeps racing everyone starts to take notice and it is great for racing as people flock to whatever track the horse is at.
yes, it is a very big problem
of course, they're worth much more as studs then they are on the track
the owners of superstar stallions can command more than $100K for every live foal that stands and nurses at birth
stallions can mate with more than 100 mares per year
on the track, not only would they make less, there is a considerable risk of injury serious enough that they would have to be put down
racing has a lot of problems
animal rights groups are talking down the sport
competition from casinos and the legalization of sports books in the U.S. is crushing racing too
a lot of people think of racing as only attracting fans who are geezers - which has some truth to it but not on the big days such as yesterday
some news stories say that it's dying
I don't think it's going to die - not anytime soon - but the business model will contract
I don't know how all of these little tracks with tiny money in the pools are still surviving
I'm not sure that they can last much longer
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Quote: mcallister3200Bama eliminated from title contention the first week of November for once, you love to see it.
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I agree, nice to see some new teams get involved.
1 Georgia; 2 Michigan; 3 Ohio State; 4 TCU; 5 Tennessee; 6 Oregon
However, the AP and Coaches poll will probably have 2 Ohio State and 3 Michigan
Quote: DRichQuote: mcallister3200Bama eliminated from title contention the first week of November for once, you love to see it.
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I agree, nice to see some new teams get involved.
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"New teams" would be Iowa State, New Mexico, Rutgers, and Georgia Tech not Ohio State, Georgia, Michigan.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: DRichQuote: mcallister3200Bama eliminated from title contention the first week of November for once, you love to see it.
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I agree, nice to see some new teams get involved.
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"New teams" would be Iowa State, New Mexico, Rutgers, and Georgia Tech not Ohio State, Georgia, Michigan.
tuttigym
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I would be very happy to see just one new team a year. TCU could be that team. I would also consider Tennessee a new teams as they have never been in the playoff. I fondly remember the last national championship they won as I was watching it with a very wealthy man who happened to be a Florida State alum.
Bernhard Langer just won a senior tournament at age 65, by SIX strokes! He is now the oldest to ever win a PGA tour sanctioned tournament….. (you have to be 50 or older to play in senior event). He needs one more win to tie Hale Irwin for most wins after 50.
He’s freaking 65 and shot a 63 in the second round….
