General Sports Talk
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69 members have voted
Quote: lilredroosterare you sure that the reason you've heard of Kuzma is not because he was a Laker?
many, especially on the West Coast and really all over the country tend to follow the Lakers closely
you're not on the West Coast but you're close
have you heard of Lauri Markkanen for the Chicago Bulls who has very similar stats?
I could be wrong but I doubt it - if I am wrong - sorry
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I watch very few NBA games but I watch the standings and stats almost daily. of course I know Markkanen. I remember being excited when Arizona was recruiting him for college. i watch quite a bit of college basketball. i think it was milwaukee or Minnesota that drafted him and then traded him to Chicago.
Quote: DRichI watch very few NBA games but I watch the standings and stats almost daily. of course I know Markkanen. I remember being excited when Arizona was recruiting him for college. i watch quite a bit of college basketball. i think it was milwaukee or Minnesota that drafted him and then traded him to Chicago.
Correct. Zach Lavine and #7 pick (Markkanen) for Jimmy Butler.
UFC fighter Sean Strickland said he'd love to kill somebody in the ring
he's a wonderful human being
a fine representative of a fine sport
prolly 90% of the sport's participants will end up brain damaged
from the article:
"I would love nothing more than to kill somebody in the ring. Nothing more. It would make me super happy.
"I would own that ----, too. I don't know if it would make me liable, I might have to say, 'I'm sorry,' if the cops came, but I would own that ---. Own it. Be a psychopath, it's ******* fun!"
https://www.insider.com/ufc-fighter-sean-strickland-said-he-wants-to-kill-somebody-2021-8
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7 foot tall Toyota bot nails a 3 and and another one from half court
lacking a little in quickness
guess that in 10 years there will be games - one team of bots against another
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Champion Sydney McLaughlin broke her own world record in the 400 meter hurdles
she just edged out fellow American Dalilah Muhammad who because of this race has run the 2nd fastest time in history
there are reports that many track records are being broken because of a "springy track" manufactured with certain different substances
the race is so very exciting..........enjoy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdjBR_LeZCM
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Quote: lilredrooster..............
Champion Sydney McLaughlin broke her own world record in the 400 meter hurdles
she just edged out fellow American Dalilah Muhammad who because of this race has run the 2nd fastest time in history
there are reports that many track records are being broken because of a "springy track" manufactured with certain different substances
the race is so very exciting..........enjoy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdjBR_LeZCM
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Springy track and new technology shoe studs. Usain Bolt called it a joke. I guess he doesn’t want HIS records broken.
Quote: DRichToday starts the 2021 NFL season with the Hall of Fame Game. Dallas Cowboys vs Pittsburgh Steelers. Only 23 more days until good football starts. There are four televised college games on August 28th.
And ALSO good football on that day? Nice!
Tyler Gilbert threw a no hitter in his first MLB start
his Dad was there to watch the game in person
the MLB batting average is .242 - the lowest since 1968
prolly due to the no substance enforcement thing
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32024755/arizona-diamondbacks-tyler-gilbert-tosses-mlb-eighth-no-hitter-first-start
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Quote: lilredrooster___________
Tyler Gilbert threw a no hitter in his first MLB start
his Dad was there to watch the game in person
the MLB batting average is .242 - the lowest since 1968
prolly due to the no substance enforcement thing
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32024755/arizona-diamondbacks-tyler-gilbert-tosses-mlb-eighth-no-hitter-first-start
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Homeruns and scoring in general are still up. Batting average once was the paramount statistic for baseball fans but todays geeks want more esoteric ones. Being .300 hitter or a .220 hitter no longer matters.
Quote: billryanBeing .300 hitter or a .220 hitter no longer matters.
impossible
from the article:
"Is batting average irrelevant?
Without a doubt, batting average is important.
It shows a hitters ability to reach base on a swing, a vital part of baseball."
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/40132-on-base-percentage-vs-batting-average-which-is-more-important
"In modern times, on base percentage (OBP) and on base plus slugging percentage (OBPS) have taken on a more prevalent position, although batting averages are still considered an important measuring stick."
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/783219-batting-average-we-dont-need-no-stinking-batting-average
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Quote: lilredroosterimpossible
from the article:
"Is batting average irrelevant?
Without a doubt, batting average is important.
It shows a hitters ability to reach base on a swing, a vital part of baseball."
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I think Bill was exaggerating. Today a .220 hitter could be more valuable than a .300 hitter. In the old days no one would have believed that. More power hitting has changed the game drastically.
Rafael Devers is a power hitter with 29 homers and leading the league with 89 RBIs making him on track for 115 RBIs
he can't show all that power - RBIs - without lots of singles hitters getting on base
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I heard a stunning stat the other day. Yankee centerfielders are batting .197 for the season, yet there was another team whose centerfielders were doing even worse. An outfielder who couldn't keep a .250 average in the 1980s would be out of a job.
Ask a player going into free agency if he'd rather hit .320 or hit 40 homeruns. I suspect few would say hit .320
In the 1960s, Pete Rose said something about home run hitters drive Cadillac's. It's even more true today.
When there are men on second and third, no one out, who did a better job?
The guy who drew a walk or a guy who hits a sac fly and advances both batters?
Quote: gordonm888Dave Kingman was a man before his time.
He'd be batting leadoff just to get him more at bats.
Joey Gallo for the year is batting .214 and has 28 homers and 61 RBIs
he has 2.18 times as many RBIs as he does homers
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is batting .314 and has 35 homers and 88 RBIs
he has 2.52 times as many RBIs as he does homers
the difference in batting averages hardly seems irrelevant
unless maybe you'd like to make the claim that RBIs are irrelevant too
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Quote: lilredrooster__________
Joey Gallo for the year is batting .214 and has 28 homers and 61 RBIs
he has 2.18 times as many RBIs as he does homers
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is batting .314 and has 35 homers and 88 RBIs
he has 2.52 times as many RBIs as he does homers
the difference in batting averages hardly seems irrelevant
unless maybe you'd like to make the claim that RBIs are irrelevant too
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For the most part, RBIs come as a result of what the batters in front of you do. If the guys in front of you get on base, you have many more opportunities. If you get on base, the players behind you get more opportunities. Baseball has changed. They put more value on the homerun than a slap single.
Runs are paramount.
Perhaps you can explain why you think a guys batting average is more important than his OPS, or even just his On Base percentage. Is a guy who hit .290 but rarely walks better than a guy who hit .270 but walked 100 times?
Quote: billryanFor the most part, RBIs come as a result of what the batters in front of you do. If the guys in front of you get on base, you have many more opportunities. If you get on base, the players behind you get more opportunities. Baseball has changed. They put more value on the homerun than a slap single.
Runs are paramount.
Perhaps you can explain why you think a guys batting average is more important than his OPS, or even just his On Base percentage. Is a guy who hit .290 but rarely walks better than a guy who hit .270 but walked 100 times?
again, you're misquoting me as you have done before
I never said those things
my only point was that batting average is not irrelevant as you were suggesting it is
comparing a base hit to a walk - you can't cause a run to score from a runner on 2nd or 1st base with a walk
and you can't cause a runner to score from 3rd base with a walk unless the bases are loaded
edit: I just played with some stats to satisfy my own curiosity
I could provide you with all the data but I doubt you're going to think that I made this up or that the data is false
it doesn't provide absolute proof - but to me it's meaningful
I randomly selected 20 players who start - out of each team picking those with the most plate appearances
then I looked at the 5 with the lowest batting averages and the 5 with the highest batting averages
the 5 with the lowest batting averages averaged hitting an RBI one of every 9.72 plate appearances
the 5 with the highest batting averages averaged hitting an RBI one of every 7.8 plate appearances
if you consider 4 plate appearances as being one game - the ones with the lowest batting averages hit an RBI on average once every 2.43 games
the ones with the highest batting averages hit an RBI on average once every 1.95 games
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I agree that OPS is more meaningful than batting average
neither consider RBIs which are very important
RBIs indicate, at least partly, clutch hitting - how well he hits when it is most important
of course, the OBP of players batting before him effect this
there is no stat - and it would be an interesting one - to consider RBIs as well as the OBP of the 4 players batting before him
clutch shooting is not measured in any way in basketball - it's only commented upon using anecdotes
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I feel the same way about “momentum.” It can’t ever be quantified other than after the fact, there’s really no sort of predictability about a “momentum turning play/moment” other than analyzing and saying “this is where momentum turned” after the fact. I think “momentum” is very similar to the feeling you can get gambling where your emotions make you feel as if you will will or lose but has little to do with the results of the game played.
kinna interesting - to me anyway - if it is believed that clutch isn't a real thing - as you do - then that would mean that RBIs are meaningless
OPS considers everything important
the only thing that effects RBIs is the OBP of the players batting before him - it has nothing to do with clutch hitting
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Quote: lilredrooster___________
kinna interesting - to me anyway - if it is believed that clutch isn't a real thing - as you do - then that would mean that RBIs are meaningless
OPS considers everything important
the only thing that effects RBIs is the OBP of the players batting before him - it has nothing to do with clutch hitting
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Yes that is the theory. It would be very difficult to tell, and might be inconclusive and subject to prior bias, no matter how much you tried to test it, whether or not clutch is real. I could see it likely it’s pseudo real or does have minimal to moderate impact but just at a fraction of the level we perceive it to be a thing after the fact.
Or am I thinking about it wrong?
Quote: lilredroosteragain, you're misquoting me as you have done before
I never said those things
my only point was that batting average is not irrelevant as you were suggesting it is
comparing a base hit to a walk - you can't cause a run to score from a runner on 2nd or 1st base with a walk
and you can't cause a runner to score from 3rd base with a walk unless the bases are loaded
edit: I just played with some stats to satisfy my own curiosity
I could provide you with all the data but I doubt you're going to think that I made this up or that the data is false
it doesn't provide absolute proof - but to me it's meaningful
I randomly selected 20 players who start - out of each team picking those with the most plate appearances
then I looked at the 5 with the lowest batting averages and the 5 with the highest batting averages
the 5 with the lowest batting averages averaged hitting an RBI one of every 9.72 plate appearances
the 5 with the highest batting averages averaged hitting an RBI one of every 7.8 plate appearances
if you consider 4 plate appearances as being one game - the ones with the lowest batting averages hit an RBI on average once every 2.43 games
the ones with the highest batting averages hit an RBI on average once every 1.95 games
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I didn't quote you at all.
In any event...
Banks leads off the inning with a walk. Santos follows up with a single, Banks to second. Seaver bunts and advances both runners. Jones hits a sac fly and Banks scores. Robinson strikes out.
Which player got the best results? Banks walked and scored, Santos got a single, Seaver advanced two runners and Jones made an out but drove in the only run. Santos has the best BA but was possibly the weakest link in the chain. Seaver, Jones and Robinson all made outs, but two of the outs were productive.
OPS - considered the best metric for a batter isn't as good as it could be IMO
it considers a walk the same as a single
that's not right
a single has more value than a walk
a single can drive a runner home from 2nd - a walk can't do that
or to 3rd from 2nd - a walk can't do that unless there was already a runner on 1st
or to 3rd from 1st - a walk can't do that either
a single will drive a player home from 3rd - a walk will only do that if the bases are loaded
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One HUGE factor not discussed is the effect of the batter AFTER you in the line up. If Babe Ruth is batting after you, no way they walk you with runners on second and third and two outs. If Joe Schmo is up next, you ain’t seeing a pitch worth hitting.
A weakness in ‘batting average’ is NOT counting a sacrifice fly as an at bat. Not saying it is not a valuable at bat, but it allows for a WAY higher average if you are in that position to get a sac fly more often.
Too many other easy thoughts but not enough time…
That's how we were raised. Jhonny Plank was a God because he drove in 107 runs, but we barely considered that the three guys in front of him were batting .335. Meanwhile Pete Wart is a scrub because he only drove in 92 runs on a team where no one hit .250.
Is a run scored less valuable than a run driven in? Is a run scored on a sac fly less valuable than a run driven in by a hit? Is the two out single that got the runner from first to third less valuable than the next single that scores the runner.
Quote: billryan
Is a run scored less valuable than a run driven in? Is a run scored on a sac fly less valuable than a run driven in by a hit? Is the two out single that got the runner from first to third less valuable than the next single that scores the runner.
ALL depends on exact situation. Down 4 runs in bottom of ninth a lead off walk is nearly as valuable as a home run.
A one out sac fly in bottom of ninth in tie game is exactly equal to a home run in the same situation.
Stealing 3rd base with two outs is worth very little. Stealing 3rd base with one out is worth a lot.
Etc….
Baseball is a very complex game with thousands of interwoven intricacies. Before we all had computers, simple formulas like batting averages and ERA were about as much math as fans wanted to do. Today I can easily see how left handed batters do against a particular pitcher their third time around in a game.
Quote: lilredrooster__________
OPS - considered the best metric for a batter isn't as good as it could be IMO
it considers a walk the same as a single
that's not right
a single has more value than a walk
a single can drive a runner home from 2nd - a walk can't do that
or to 3rd from 2nd - a walk can't do that unless there was already a runner on 1st
or to 3rd from 1st - a walk can't do that either
a single will drive a player home from 3rd - a walk will only do that if the bases are loaded
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You are not technically correct. OPS does gives more value to a single than a walk. OPS is On-base Plus Slugging Average. On-Base Average does indeed treat a walk and single as equal, but Slugging Average treats a single as having value but a walk as having no value. So, a single will increase a batters OPS more than a walk.
Quote: gordonm888You are not technically correct. OPS does gives more value to a single than a walk. OPS is On-base Plus Slugging Average. On-Base Average does indeed treat a walk and single as equal, but Slugging Average treats a single as having value but a walk as having no value. So, a single will increase a batters OPS more than a walk.
you're right - my bad - it's not the first time I've been wrong
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Quote: lilredroosteryou're right - my bad - it's not the first time I've been wrong
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What is wrong with you? You are on an anonymous internet forum, no one ever admits to being wrong.
Quote: DRichWhat is wrong with you? You are on an anonymous internet forum, no one ever admits to being wrong.
that's funny - I don't really feel anonymous - I've revealed a lot of personal stuff here - I feel like I know some of the guys here - although I guess I really don't
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the sports chatterboxes are chattering away comparing Ohtani to The Babe - some suggesting he may be the next Babe
Ohtani - lifetime batting average_________.270
The Babe___________________________________________.342
Ohtani lifetime SLG__________.637
The Babe______________________________.690
Ohtani lifetime OPS______1.003
The Babe_________________________________________________1.164
seriously
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Saturday is the opening for college football this year. Nebraska vs Illinois at 1pm Eastern. I think there are only 5 games, but I will watch every one of them that is on TV.
It is gonna be fun. I was reading this article recently about rule changes for this season:Quote: DRichI am so excited!!!!
Saturday is the opening for college football this year. Nebraska vs Illinois at 1pm Eastern. I think there are only 5 games, but I will watch every one of them that is on TV.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/2021-new-college-football-rules-changes/
This section was interesting:
Speaking of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, video board and audio and lighting operators may now not create any distraction that obstructs play this year. If they are found guilty, the team will receive an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
I wonder what triggered this rule being added?
Quote: grooveknappyI think this is a great time to talk about sports. Recently watch basketball more and more often and sometimes I get upset when my favorite team loses. After that, you have to play the 1974 world series of poker to improve your mood.
What are your thoughts on the Turing Test?
I wonder how they define "distraction that obstructs play." Also, for neutral site games, which team gets the penalty?Quote: KeeneoneSpeaking of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, video board and audio and lighting operators may now not create any distraction that obstructs play this year. If they are found guilty, the team will receive an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
Plus, if this happens twice in a game, will the video board operator be ejected from the game and the video board turned off?
Maybe this?Quote:I wonder what triggered this rule being added?
UCLA running back looked good against an overmatched Rainbow defense. DTR played pretty well for the Bruins but will be challenged by LSU next week. I think this bruin team may be a real Top 25 team.
Alcorn State marches the field on their first possession for a TD, I don't expect much of NCC in this game. It is hard not to root for the Braves and coach Mcnair after the tragic death of his brother Steve.
Quote: mcallister3200Nebraska can’t recruit anymore, none of these kids care how they were in the early 90’s. No kid wants to go to Lincoln, Nebraska. Their expectations are completely delusional now. I don’t think it’s inexplicable, there is no talent there.
Nebraska will never be back to where they were, but they should be able to have a competitive top 25 team. Look at Iowa, they were never great but are almost always good. If Iowa can do it Nebraska should be able to be decent.
