Best Slot AP opportunities

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Seedvalue

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Seedvalue

I will follow up that many new guys (and some older well known guys here ) are using lazy runners. So lazy they can’t manage to move one seat over to a different machine when conducting business. Then people want to complain about things getting locked. Maybe act like a professional, and conduct your business respecting the other side. They guys who get paid to stop us. Yeah they do exist
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I understand what you say. But my experience is most casinos don't check for that. It would be very difficult because legit players may use their Freeplay and then get up and be followed by another legit player who downloads their Freeplay.

My experience is if they are checking at all it's for a ratio of Freeplay to ADT.

Also, it's almost never surveillance. It's usually caught by remote computer. For example I was caught one time in AC. Security notified me they were fully aware that I was using 21 cards. They practically boasted about it

Problem was I had 23 cards. The two cards that they didn't notice was because I had messed up on a multiplier day and earned half offers (my employees mistake but I forgot to warn them). As a result the offers were half the other cards.

Clearly they were not following which cards were used by eye. It also let me know I could beat them by going lower and avoiding their software.

But I always say it's actually security and surveillance that talks too much. They gave up so much info with that one brag.
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Well let me clue you in on what the local hustlers are doing who are against cards. These guys are so delusional they believe they are making less money because of guys like you. Classic need to blame others for their shortcomings. So these guys are spending a good portion of their day snapping photos of anyone they think is redeeming or building. Then they forward this information to security. So they are in essence working for the casino for free lol. So if I was you I would make an effort not to do what I Eluded to above. Inform your people to be more discreet. I have invested some Time, and money into counter surveillance of these losers so if you would like to know who they are I can can share on signal. Trust me they are in many casinos in your area. Real pieces of work these guys lol. You probably don’t care nor do I as nothing they do will ever disrupt something I want or need to get done. If anything it will make me go harder in the areas they are defending.
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The average gambler sits at a slot for some period of time. IMO it actually would look more suspicious if you have 100 cards and switched seats 100 times.

These guys you are mentioning would have to be staring at someone redeeming their Freeplay literally just sitting watching each "suspect" for ten minutes until they went through one card and switched to another.

I'm not trying to say it's not something suspicious going on but there is something suspect about what you claim
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Listen if you don’t believe that’s fine. If you would like me to provide proof I can on signal. Believe me or not that’s up to you. The information I provided is 100 percent fact. I can even name and provide pictures myself of the people doing it.
Redeeming multiple offers on the same machine on the same ticket is not wise when they are doing exactly what I said. Including snapping photos of suspected builders. It’s their way to defend what they think is home turf. I’m just trying to give you a heads up my Friend. Just be aware

Quote: sevencard2003

Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg and that whole area of Mississippi have nobody working it. Except Biloxi has the Asians in the Buffalo room.

Sorry I’m trying to help out others.
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anyone ever take into account it could be the reason they arent many aps visible there is the casino is immediately banning anyone checking machines who appears to be an ap?
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This was not my experience in tunica during December and January. I stayed there for two months finishing up business before the MGM sale

Quote: Dobrij

If you want to prevent people from talking on the Internet, especially on forums dedicated to this, you are either a complete loser or an idiot.

Laugh, laugh, what else can you do.
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In this game not much I can’t do my friend.

I win at your “Real Life” also using the money I made from gambling. To easy my friend to easy

Quote: Seedvalue

Listen if you don’t believe that’s fine. If you would like me to provide proof I can on signal. Believe me or not that’s up to you. The information I provided is 100 percent fact. I can even name and provide pictures myself of the people doing it.
Redeeming multiple offers on the same machine on the same ticket is not wise when they are doing exactly what I said. Including snapping photos of suspected builders. It’s their way to defend what they think is home turf. I’m just trying to give you a heads up my Friend. Just be aware
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Some casinos have software to flag player cards that are being used with a voucher that was cashed out from play on a different card. Security can use this for finding stolen vouchers quickly. They can also use this to look for money laundering patterns. They could easily use this program/data to identify any player using multiple cards with the same funds. I have never run cards, so I cannot say from experience whether they do this. Casino Royale on the Strip sent a manager to check on us when my son and I were swapping cards back and forth every 3 minutes on one machine. He told us software alerted him.

Quote: Mental

Some casinos have software to flag player cards that are being used with a voucher that was cashed out from play on a different card.

I haven't seen software that did that but it is a good idea. Do you know which player tracking system they are using?

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental

Some casinos have software to flag player cards that are being used with a voucher that was cashed out from play on a different card.

I haven't seen software that did that but it is a good idea. Do you know which player tracking system they are using?
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Twenty years ago, I heard about an experimental program at CZR called raptor that would mine the TITO data and try to find relationships between players using different cards but sharing vouchers. This could be used for FinCEN compliance, but also to generate marketing data.

One casino (that has since changed ownership and player tracking system) used to treat me like a criminal for creating large vouchers at one machine and playing them in another machine. This was done to alert security to possible bill stuffing. They would send someone out to see what was going on. Sometimes they would be real dicks about it. The system would trigger an alert if any machine took in too much cash without any play.

Quote: Mental

The system would trigger an alert if any machine took in too much cash without any play.

Most of the player tracking systems I worked on had that feature. When I was teaching the FinCEN/AML classes to casinos I always worked with their auditing departments on that feature. We never used it in real-time, but the auditors would file SARS the next day on players who showed up on that report too often.

Resorts world aqueduct installed a system if a voucher was not cashed out but a players card was removed and then a new one inserted then the machine would lock up on the next wager.

When a slot tech would be called he would notify security. Several people were surrounded by security and told either they presented ID (to be expelled from the casino since they already had proof they used someone else's players card) or they would have to forfeit their cash because the slot tech would not repair the machine without the ID of the player (ostensibly for the protection of whoever inserted the money what chutzpah).

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

Golden Nugget if you had a voucher over $3000 (and it's probably true for all AC but definitely the nugget) And you took it to the cashier they could tell if it was associated with a players card. They would ask then for ID and why that person was cashing out for someone else. They would refuse to cash the voucher without that person present. I don't believe they confiscated it. Just refused to honor it without the person coming themselves. Once they scanned it the voucher was unplayable in the slots so you had little choice if you wanted your money.

Resorts International in AC will recognize if you won a jackpot using another person's card. If there are offers the card is toast by the next day (however not if significant play is on the card for that day so it seems they take that into account. There are legit players who may win a jackpot and not realize someone else's card was left in.)

Taj Mahal if you downloaded your Freeplay, removed the card and tried to insert someone else's card the machine would lock both player's cards. However they would lift the lock if both people went to customer service with a warning not to do it again.

Other than that I have never seen it. It would become a nightmare in my opinion. Plenty of legit people forget their cards in the slots and someone else plays behind them. They would end up evicting innocent old ladies and have a lot of bad PR just my take.

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
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Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC.

They actually violate several laws with seeming impunity.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
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Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC.

They actually violate several laws with seeming impunity.
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Sorry, I thought you only played in AC.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
link to original post

Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC.

They actually violate several laws with seeming impunity.
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I am curious which laws you think this violates?

People often sit in my seat while I am waiting for a hand pay. The casino is allowed and perhaps required to have procedures to make sure they are paying the right person especially when the person does not match the card in the machine.

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
link to original post

Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC.

They actually violate several laws with seeming impunity.
link to original post

I am curious which laws you think this violates?

People often sit in my seat while I am waiting for a hand pay. The casino is allowed and perhaps required to have procedures to make sure they are paying the right person especially when the person does not match the card in the machine.
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We aren't talking about a hand pay. We are talking about anti-card flipping (my term) or anti-card dipping (their term as used in a lawsuit I had against them for backrooming me)

The machine locks up as soon as you make the wager on someone else's card. Like even a $30 pass line bet would make it freeze

Naturally you call the attendant who understands why it locked and calls security.

Security would then demand ID or you don't get the machine fixed and your money.

Obviously this isn't an issue of who the money belongs to. They could just check the camera. They already have checked the cameras and tell you they caught you using other players cards

It's illegal for them to withhold YOUR money. And I had a casino try that and called gaming which ordered them to pay me. So yes that tactic is against the law

When the casino refuses to pay you they are trying to keep your money. They have a word for it. Theft!

Quote: Wizard

Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here. He himself has been doing around a monthly ‘reveal’ of a slot play.

I am an example of someone who ONLY because of this forum now makes a little $$ on some of these slot plays. That is basically why this forum was started!
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Thank you! This sums up my position well.

Outing plays is absolutely allowed here. My goal is to make people better gamblers. Hiding information on how to do that is contrary to my mission.
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I do not operate in an Administrative capacity here, but I share Wizard's position.

In my writings, I always tend to be more concerned with casual gamblers than I am with AP's...especially specific classes of AP's whose only motivation to not wanting machine plays discussed is that they don't want the competition. The card runners don't even need the +EV plays in order to be net profitable; they're just greedy---which is fine. (I'm just calling it what it is)

Also, there's nothing I could write about that most AP's wouldn't already know. The only machine AP's my stuff is even remotely helpful to are relatively new guys or totally new guys trying to get some early info that they might have to work harder to come by otherwise. I consider it a privilege to be able to help such people out a little bit if they come seeking me out...at least, as my time permits as I do not, and would not, accept money for this.

Quote: Mental

Some casinos have software to flag player cards that are being used with a voucher that was cashed out from play on a different card. Security can use this for finding stolen vouchers quickly. They can also use this to look for money laundering patterns. They could easily use this program/data to identify any player using multiple cards with the same funds. I have never run cards, so I cannot say from experience whether they do this. Casino Royale on the Strip sent a manager to check on us when my son and I were swapping cards back and forth every 3 minutes on one machine. He told us software alerted him.
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That's my own stupidity for not realizing such a thing, but it makes sense. Knowing that might have saved me a backrooming on one occasion.

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
link to original post

They do nothing when casinos confiscate a player's slot vouchers, so I don't suspect they care. This has been my personal experience.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
link to original post

Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC.

They actually violate several laws with seeming impunity.
link to original post

I am curious which laws you think this violates?

People often sit in my seat while I am waiting for a hand pay. The casino is allowed and perhaps required to have procedures to make sure they are paying the right person especially when the person does not match the card in the machine.
link to original post

We aren't talking about a hand pay. We are talking about anti-card flipping (my term) or anti-card dipping (their term as used in a lawsuit I had against them for backrooming me)

The machine locks up as soon as you make the wager on someone else's card. Like even a $30 pass line bet would make it freeze

Naturally you call the attendant who understands why it locked and calls security.

Security would then demand ID or you don't get the machine fixed and your money.

Obviously this isn't an issue of who the money belongs to. They could just check the camera. They already have checked the cameras and tell you they caught you using other players cards

It's illegal for them to withhold YOUR money. And I had a casino try that and called gaming which ordered them to pay me. So yes that tactic is against the law

When the casino refuses to pay you they are trying to keep your money. They have a word for it. Theft!
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Technically, it is not money. It is a token or a credit they are withholding. You voluntarily exchanged money for these tokens or credits, so the laws regarding money are no longer in effect.

Gaming can prevent casinos from doing many things that are not against any law. You said several laws were violated, but I am not clear that any law was violated

Winning a civil suit does not prove that a law was violated.

Quote: Mental

. Casino Royale on the Strip sent a manager to check on us when my son and I were swapping cards back and forth every 3 minutes on one machine. He told us software alerted him.
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I can probably describe guy who came. That particular guy is all over that.

Quote: Mission146

They do nothing when casinos confiscate a player's slot vouchers, so I don't suspect they care. This has been my personal experience.
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I suspect they would care greatly if the casino refused to give you your money.

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

I would be very surprised if the New Jersey CCC allowed that if they were involved.
link to original post

Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC.

They actually violate several laws with seeming impunity.
link to original post

I am curious which laws you think this violates?

People often sit in my seat while I am waiting for a hand pay. The casino is allowed and perhaps required to have procedures to make sure they are paying the right person especially when the person does not match the card in the machine.
link to original post

We aren't talking about a hand pay. We are talking about anti-card flipping (my term) or anti-card dipping (their term as used in a lawsuit I had against them for backrooming me)

The machine locks up as soon as you make the wager on someone else's card. Like even a $30 pass line bet would make it freeze

Naturally you call the attendant who understands why it locked and calls security.

Security would then demand ID or you don't get the machine fixed and your money.

Obviously this isn't an issue of who the money belongs to. They could just check the camera. They already have checked the cameras and tell you they caught you using other players cards

It's illegal for them to withhold YOUR money. And I had a casino try that and called gaming which ordered them to pay me. So yes that tactic is against the law

When the casino refuses to pay you they are trying to keep your money. They have a word for it. Theft!
link to original post

Technically, it is not money. It is a token or a credit they are withholding. You voluntarily exchanged money for these tokens or credits, so the laws regarding money are no longer in effect.

Gaming can prevent casinos from doing many things that are not against any law. You said several laws were violated, but I am not clear that any law was violated

Winning a civil suit does not prove that a law was violated.
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Lol, that is EXACTLY what the security guard at the Golden Nugget told me when they refused to cash my vouchers.

He changed his mind when the gaming police ordered him to cash out.

You know why they did that? Because it is my money.

Not sure about your weird theory. You believe your bank isn't holding your money because all you have is a bank book and an ATM card?

Quote: darkoz

Not sure about your weird theory. You believe your bank isn't holding your money because all you have is a bank book and an ATM card?

Your bank is not holding your money for you. They pay you back with someone else's money.

Quote: darkoz

Not sure about your weird theory. You believe your bank isn't holding your money because all you have is a bank book and an ATM card?
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My bank will absolutely not give me 'my' money on demand. They must be violating the law!

I gave a $100 bill to a cashier at the convenience store. She took it and wen to the manager in the back office. Again, a clear violation of the law.

In your view, a business has no legal right to establish reasonable procedures regarding a customer who enters the premises voluntarily.

Yes, you have rights to seek an equitable resolution with regard to their procedures. Again, which statute do you believe was violated?

I am sorry, but I have a weird theory that a law cannot be violated if the law only exists in your mind.

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Not sure about your weird theory. You believe your bank isn't holding your money because all you have is a bank book and an ATM card?
link to original post

My bank will absolutely not give me 'my' money on demand. They must be violating the law!

I gave a $100 bill to a cashier at the convenience store. She took it and wen to the manager in the back office. Again, a clear violation of the law.

In your view, a business has no legal right to establish reasonable procedures regarding a customer who enters the premises voluntarily.

Yes, you have rights to seek an equitable resolution with regard to their procedures. Again, which statute do you believe was violated?

I am sorry, but I have a weird theory that a law cannot be violated if the law only exists in your mind.
link to original post

I have already told you that the law was enforced when it actually was attempted by a casino which made the precise false assumptions you did.

Even DRich is stating that gaming enforcement will get involved and have a say.

The fact that you would allow a cashier to steal your hundred dollar bill is on you.

What makes you believe casinos have a legal right to keep money that belongs to you? I'm talking about after it's verified that it belongs to you.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Not sure about your weird theory. You believe your bank isn't holding your money because all you have is a bank book and an ATM card?
link to original post

My bank will absolutely not give me 'my' money on demand. They must be violating the law!

I gave a $100 bill to a cashier at the convenience store. She took it and wen to the manager in the back office. Again, a clear violation of the law.

In your view, a business has no legal right to establish reasonable procedures regarding a customer who enters the premises voluntarily.

Yes, you have rights to seek an equitable resolution with regard to their procedures. Again, which statute do you believe was violated?

I am sorry, but I have a weird theory that a law cannot be violated if the law only exists in your mind.
link to original post

I have already told you that the law was enforced when it actually was attempted by a casino which made the precise false assumptions you did.

Even DRich is stating that gaming enforcement will get involved and have a say.

The fact that you would allow a cashier to steal your hundred dollar bill is on you.

What makes you believe casinos have a legal right to keep money that belongs to you? I'm talking about after it's verified that it belongs to you.
link to original post

Do chips and slot vouchers belong to you? I want to say yes. Do they have to redeem them and give you cash for those things? They should have to, however, I can think of a situations where they legally(I think it's legal) for them to not give you the money for those things. At least in Nevada.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mental

Quote: darkoz

Not sure about your weird theory. You believe your bank isn't holding your money because all you have is a bank book and an ATM card?
link to original post

My bank will absolutely not give me 'my' money on demand. They must be violating the law!

I gave a $100 bill to a cashier at the convenience store. She took it and wen to the manager in the back office. Again, a clear violation of the law.

In your view, a business has no legal right to establish reasonable procedures regarding a customer who enters the premises voluntarily.

Yes, you have rights to seek an equitable resolution with regard to their procedures. Again, which statute do you believe was violated?

I am sorry, but I have a weird theory that a law cannot be violated if the law only exists in your mind.
link to original post

I have already told you that the law was enforced when it actually was attempted by a casino which made the precise false assumptions you did.

Even DRich is stating that gaming enforcement will get involved and have a say.

The fact that you would allow a cashier to steal your hundred dollar bill is on you.

What makes you believe casinos have a legal right to keep money that belongs to you? I'm talking about after it's verified that it belongs to you.
link to original post

Do chips and slot vouchers belong to you? I want to say yes. Do they have to redeem them and give you cash for those things? They should have to, however, I can think of a situations where they legally(I think it's legal) for them to not give you the money for those things. At least in Nevada.
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Define situations.

Of course there are times the casino can withhold the money. But within strict rules. Simply arguing that casinos have an utter right to withhold someone's money doesn't cut it nor does it make sense.

What business has the right to steal customer cash?

Quote: darkoz

What business has the right to steal customer cash?
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... I mean, as designed and legally licensed, casinos are supposed to be -ev...

Quote: Talldude90

Quote: darkoz

What business has the right to steal customer cash?
link to original post

... I mean, as designed and legally licensed, casinos are supposed to be -ev...
link to original post

Hypothetical:
A casinos offers free slot play to dozens of patrons. The FSP still belongs to the casino at that point. A card runner shows up on a day when none of these cardholders are in the casino. Does the FSP ever become property of the legitimate card holders? Or does the FSP immediately become property of the card runner the moment it is offered to a third party? Does any delay by the casino in converting said FSP to cash constitute a crime? If the legitimate cardholder changes their pin, is this also a crime against the card runner?

Just asking.

Quote: Mental

Quote: Talldude90

Quote: darkoz

What business has the right to steal customer cash?
link to original post

... I mean, as designed and legally licensed, casinos are supposed to be -ev...
link to original post

Hypothetical:
A casinos offers free slot play to dozens of patrons. The FSP still belongs to the casino at that point. A card runner shows up on a day when none of these cardholders are in the casino. Does the FSP ever become property of the legitimate card holders? Or does the FSP immediately become property of the card runner the moment it is offered to a third party? Does any delay by the casino in converting said FSP to cash constitute a crime? If the legitimate cardholder changes their pin, is this also a crime against the card runner?

Just asking.
link to original post

I don't know the actual law however if you picked up free play on someone else's card and they detained you and confiscated the slot tickets I'm fairly sure the casino could keep that and you are not getting it back. Even if you cashed the tickets and they confiscated the money I don't think gaming would force them to give it back. Even if what they did wasn't lawful, good luck in court.

Quote: Mental

Quote: Talldude90

Quote: darkoz

What business has the right to steal customer cash?
link to original post

... I mean, as designed and legally licensed, casinos are supposed to be -ev...
link to original post

Hypothetical:
A casinos offers free slot play to dozens of patrons. The FSP still belongs to the casino at that point. A card runner shows up on a day when none of these cardholders are in the casino. Does the FSP ever become property of the legitimate card holders? Or does the FSP immediately become property of the card runner the moment it is offered to a third party? Does any delay by the casino in converting said FSP to cash constitute a crime? If the legitimate cardholder changes their pin, is this also a crime against the card runner?

Just asking.
link to original post

Asking nationally about questions that probably have state laws is difficult to answer. So let me say that I will answer your questions with utmost confidence for the states I have operated AND been detained at using FSP including confiscation of vouchers

Atlantic City - Backroomed at the Golden Nugget. Used 8 players cards. They confiscated my vouchers and refused to cash out. They contacted gaming enforcement. They notified gaming enforcement I was using other players cards and they confiscated the vouchers obtained.

Gaming enforcement refused to press charges for the use of the cards. In addition they ordered the casino to cash out my vouchers and give me the cash. That's personal experience not hypothetical example.

Resorts world aqueduct queens NYC -. Backroomed for using 9 other players cards. Forcibly had pockets searched. They did cash out my vouchers willingly. I did have a lawsuit against them for illegal backrooming.

Because of the lawsuit they changed their backroom policies. I know because I still had a crew in there for years and when they caught my people security would just walk the people out and even mentioned to them they were free to leave (not getting Backroomed) since they didn't want a lawsuit.

Valley Forge Casino Pennsylvania -. Surrounded by state troopers inside casino using 28 players cards and Backroomed. Troopers verified by phone that the players gave me permission to use them. State troopers then released me with no charges.

I returned using the same 28 cards for three weeks before they surrounded me again. This time the casino chose to evict me. State troopers (the same ones in fact) files absolutely zero charges. AND ordered the casino to cash out thousands of dollars in vouchers I obtained from the Freeplay. Again this isn't in dispute. This isn't hypothetical what if. This is actual experience.

Biloxi Mississippi. I think it was the IP. It was my employee doing pickups so can't remember the casino. She won a jackpot ON Freeplay from someone else's card. Security came. She told them she had permission to use it. They contacted the person who confirmed.

Security then ordered the jackpot TO BE PAID!!!!

They did deactivate the card next day

Harrah's Biloxi Mississippi -. Same worker again won a jackpot on someone else's card and Freeplay. Again surrounded by security. This time admonished not to use another person's card and security again ORDERED the jackpot to be paid.

Next day my worker returned but with the actual player. They took the Freeplay. The card was flagged obviously because when they finished security surrounded them. They informed her they warned her not to use someone else card. That person standing right next to her pulled out her ID and said I am right here what is the problem. Security apologized and didn't evict her.

Those are all firsthand (or in the case of Mississippi employee told) events

So please stop with the BS like you believe the casinos can confiscate money and Freeplay that's already played still belongs to them.

I speak from experience in multiple states. Is every state like that? I suspect probably but I haven't tested them. I don't need to test all fifty states to find out. It's clearly pretty established in the states I hit that the law is on my side when it comes to using other players cards and getting MY money!!!

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

They do nothing when casinos confiscate a player's slot vouchers, so I don't suspect they care. This has been my personal experience.
link to original post

I suspect they would care greatly if the casino refused to give you your money.
link to original post

The casino did refuse to give me my money. I contacted Gaming. After promising to get back to me after their monthly meeting wherein these things are discussed, they did not do so and subsequently ignored every single one of my phone messages.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know the actual law however if you picked up free play on someone else's card and they detained you and confiscated the slot tickets I'm fairly sure the casino could keep that and you are not getting it back. Even if you cashed the tickets and they confiscated the money I don't think gaming would force them to give it back. Even if what they did wasn't lawful, good luck in court.
link to original post

Yeah, but one of the cards was my own card.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

They do nothing when casinos confiscate a player's slot vouchers, so I don't suspect they care. This has been my personal experience.
link to original post

I suspect they would care greatly if the casino refused to give you your money.
link to original post

The casino did refuse to give me my money. I contacted Gaming. After promising to get back to me after their monthly meeting wherein these things are discussed, they did not do so and subsequently ignored every single one of my phone messages.
link to original post

You have to be adamant that gaming comes immediately. In Atlantic City for example you have to state that this is a customer dispute and you want gaming to be involved and to contact the onsite gaming officer which by law they have to do.

Refuse to leave the casino until they give you the money. All they will do is say you are trespassing and call precisely the person you want to come settle the dispute and get you your money.

Quote: darkoz

You have to be adamant that gaming comes immediately. In Atlantic City for example you have to state that this is a customer dispute and you want gaming to be involved and to contact the onsite gaming officer which by law they have to do.

Refuse to leave the casino until they give you the money. All they will do is say you are trespassing and call precisely the person you want to come settle the dispute and get you your money.
link to original post

Good deal and thanks for the tips! I have no real plans to multi-card AC, or anywhere else, ever again, but I'll keep that in mind in the unlikely event that I do. Honestly, I just don't find it worth all the hassle and money itself really doesn't mean that much to me, in general terms.

Quote: darkoz

You have to be adamant that gaming comes immediately. In Atlantic City for example you have to state that this is a customer dispute and you want gaming to be involved and to contact the onsite gaming officer which by law they have to do.

That is exactly what I was going to say. In Nevada if a dispute is over $500 the casino is required to call Nevada Gaming out to the site to try and resolve it. The casinos get very large fines if they don't report a dispute over $500.

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

You have to be adamant that gaming comes immediately. In Atlantic City for example you have to state that this is a customer dispute and you want gaming to be involved and to contact the onsite gaming officer which by law they have to do.

That is exactly what I was going to say. In Nevada if a dispute is over $500 the casino is required to call Nevada Gaming out to the site to try and resolve it. The casinos get very large fines if they don't report a dispute over $500.
link to original post

Yes it's very similar in AC. They get fined for not calling gaming if a customer requests it due to a payment dispute. I don't know what the minimum amount is.

I suspect it's that way for most territories (aside from Indian gaming) because most states actually study the gaming laws of Nevada with it's history of gaming and try to mimic them

Call it laziness or a reliance on what has come before but most gaming laws are not only very similar but even worded similar from state to state.

Quote: darkoz

Resorts world aqueduct installed a system if a voucher was not cashed out but a players card was removed and then a new one inserted then the machine would lock up on the next wager.

When a slot tech would be called he would notify security. Several people were surrounded by security and told either they presented ID (to be expelled from the casino since they already had proof they used someone else's players card) or they would have to forfeit their cash because the slot tech would not repair the machine without the ID of the player (ostensibly for the protection of whoever inserted the money what chutzpah).

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

Golden Nugget if you had a voucher over $3000 (and it's probably true for all AC but definitely the nugget) And you took it to the cashier they could tell if it was associated with a players card. They would ask then for ID and why that person was cashing out for someone else. They would refuse to cash the voucher without that person present. I don't believe they confiscated it. Just refused to honor it without the person coming themselves. Once they scanned it the voucher was unplayable in the slots so you had little choice if you wanted your money.

Resorts International in AC will recognize if you won a jackpot using another person's card. If there are offers the card is toast by the next day (however not if significant play is on the card for that day so it seems they take that into account. There are legit players who may win a jackpot and not realize someone else's card was left in.)

Taj Mahal if you downloaded your Freeplay, removed the card and tried to insert someone else's card the machine would lock both player's cards. However they would lift the lock if both people went to customer service with a warning not to do it again.

Other than that I have never seen it. It would become a nightmare in my opinion. Plenty of legit people forget their cards in the slots and someone else plays behind them. They would end up evicting innocent old ladies and have a lot of bad PR just my take.
link to original post

The above post is a perfect example of something that should never be posted. You are literally posting something that is currently being used in real time to circumvent different systems.

Just because the process you posted is slightly off and you think it’s outdated doesn’t mean it’s not being used.

You have openly stated that you are not a millionaire after all these years with all these cards and all this knowledge. Why would you continue to post things above ? Are you in on developing software to stop APs or something?

I can understand why the forum owners want everyone to post things. It’s good for businesses. I had comments removed for alluding to a factual play that I know someone is utilizing in Vegas to play backjack. Without giving the knowledge of what the play is and I would never out the play she, he, they, or them is using. I find it amusing. More evidence that these sites don’t really have active players. Mostly retired guys talking shop about past plays. Most never achieving their full potential, and using the information to data base real players. That’s my opinion of these forums. No real loyalty to the game against the casino Industry.

All these sites are Fantastic honey traps for the other side.

Please deactivate my account wizard thanks

Quote: Seedvalue

Quote: darkoz

Resorts world aqueduct installed a system if a voucher was not cashed out but a players card was removed and then a new one inserted then the machine would lock up on the next wager.

When a slot tech would be called he would notify security. Several people were surrounded by security and told either they presented ID (to be expelled from the casino since they already had proof they used someone else's players card) or they would have to forfeit their cash because the slot tech would not repair the machine without the ID of the player (ostensibly for the protection of whoever inserted the money what chutzpah).

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

Golden Nugget if you had a voucher over $3000 (and it's probably true for all AC but definitely the nugget) And you took it to the cashier they could tell if it was associated with a players card. They would ask then for ID and why that person was cashing out for someone else. They would refuse to cash the voucher without that person present. I don't believe they confiscated it. Just refused to honor it without the person coming themselves. Once they scanned it the voucher was unplayable in the slots so you had little choice if you wanted your money.

Resorts International in AC will recognize if you won a jackpot using another person's card. If there are offers the card is toast by the next day (however not if significant play is on the card for that day so it seems they take that into account. There are legit players who may win a jackpot and not realize someone else's card was left in.)

Taj Mahal if you downloaded your Freeplay, removed the card and tried to insert someone else's card the machine would lock both player's cards. However they would lift the lock if both people went to customer service with a warning not to do it again.

Other than that I have never seen it. It would become a nightmare in my opinion. Plenty of legit people forget their cards in the slots and someone else plays behind them. They would end up evicting innocent old ladies and have a lot of bad PR just my take.
link to original post

The above post is a perfect example of something that should never be posted. You are literally posting something that is currently being used in real time to circumvent different systems.

Just because the process you posted is slightly off and you think it’s outdated doesn’t mean it’s not being used.

You have openly stated that you are not a millionaire after all these years with all these cards and all this knowledge. Why would you continue to post things above ? Are you in on developing software to stop APs or something?

I can understand why the forum owners want everyone to post things. It’s good for businesses. I had comments removed for alluding to a factual play that I know someone is utilizing in Vegas to play backjack. Without giving the knowledge of what the play is and I would never out the play she, he, they, or them is using. I find it amusing. More evidence that these sites don’t really have active players. Mostly retired guys talking shop about past plays. Most never achieving their full potential, and using the information to data base real players. That’s my opinion of these forums. No real loyalty to the game against the casino Industry.

All these sites are Fantastic honey traps for the other side.

Please deactivate my account wizard thanks
link to original post

Lol makes no sense to me. The systems by the casinos are being used but let's not let the casinos know about their own systems.

Sorry to see you go.

Quote: Seedvalue

Quote: darkoz

Resorts world aqueduct installed a system if a voucher was not cashed out but a players card was removed and then a new one inserted then the machine would lock up on the next wager.

When a slot tech would be called he would notify security. Several people were surrounded by security and told either they presented ID (to be expelled from the casino since they already had proof they used someone else's players card) or they would have to forfeit their cash because the slot tech would not repair the machine without the ID of the player (ostensibly for the protection of whoever inserted the money what chutzpah).

From what I heard everyone gave up their ID and got evicted so they could retain their cash. Personally that all sounds illegal and this is circa 2014.

Golden Nugget if you had a voucher over $3000 (and it's probably true for all AC but definitely the nugget) And you took it to the cashier they could tell if it was associated with a players card. They would ask then for ID and why that person was cashing out for someone else. They would refuse to cash the voucher without that person present. I don't believe they confiscated it. Just refused to honor it without the person coming themselves. Once they scanned it the voucher was unplayable in the slots so you had little choice if you wanted your money.

Resorts International in AC will recognize if you won a jackpot using another person's card. If there are offers the card is toast by the next day (however not if significant play is on the card for that day so it seems they take that into account. There are legit players who may win a jackpot and not realize someone else's card was left in.)

Taj Mahal if you downloaded your Freeplay, removed the card and tried to insert someone else's card the machine would lock both player's cards. However they would lift the lock if both people went to customer service with a warning not to do it again.

Other than that I have never seen it. It would become a nightmare in my opinion. Plenty of legit people forget their cards in the slots and someone else plays behind them. They would end up evicting innocent old ladies and have a lot of bad PR just my take.
link to original post

The above post is a perfect example of something that should never be posted. You are literally posting something that is currently being used in real time to circumvent different systems.

Just because the process you posted is slightly off and you think it’s outdated doesn’t mean it’s not being used.

You have openly stated that you are not a millionaire after all these years with all these cards and all this knowledge. Why would you continue to post things above ? Are you in on developing software to stop APs or something?

I can understand why the forum owners want everyone to post things. It’s good for businesses. I had comments removed for alluding to a factual play that I know someone is utilizing in Vegas to play backjack. Without giving the knowledge of what the play is and I would never out the play she, he, they, or them is using. I find it amusing. More evidence that these sites don’t really have active players. Mostly retired guys talking shop about past plays. Most never achieving their full potential, and using the information to data base real players. That’s my opinion of these forums. No real loyalty to the game against the casino Industry.

All these sites are Fantastic honey traps for the other side.

Please deactivate my account wizard thanks
link to original post

If you are still here…. Why would you possibly need the Wizard to deactivate your account? You can’t just not click on Wizardofvegas.com ?
I think you added to the forum. Sorry to see you go. Good luck!

This lawyer has some interesting info about a player's right to cash out chips, the legality of being back-roomed, etc. He says that even though the chips are owned by the casino, the issue is who currently has the right to possession of them. And the player has the right to possession unless the casino has reasonable suspicion he has gotten them through dishonest means, and in order to regain possession, the casino must pay the player for the value.

(Starting at 13:55)

I’m just commenting on AC because I had a card counting dispute where they backed me off without backing me off. They use to have a gaming agent on the floor of every AC casino. But when Governor Christie made cuts to the budget they got rid of that (rightfully so).

The process for Atlantic City is you go to security desk and tell them you want to make a “Gaming Complaint.” Then they decide if they should call the NJ gaming enforcement division/state police. If it’s not urgent it’ll get forwarded to the NJ Gaming Control board and they will follow up with you.

FWIW my complaint wasn’t deemed urgent, but it did makes its way to a gaming agent who called me and was attentive.

Back on topic- the Mississippi casinos will also give you better bounce back offers if you have local addresses. Such as an address linked in Jackson, MS. If you want the best offers give a passport, or say that’s an old address and when signing up cards (or multiple cards) give a Mississippi address closer to the casino.

Quote: WABJ11

Back on topic- the Mississippi casinos will also give you better bounce back offers if you have local addresses. Such as an address linked in Jackson, MS. If you want the best offers give a passport, or say that’s an old address and when signing up cards (or multiple cards) give a Mississippi address closer to the casino.
link to original post

You certain you aren't getting mixed up with Louisiana?

Nope. If anyone ended up going out to VIcksburg, or Tunica they can attest to the greatness of the opportunities. I think obviously after this post is won't be as good as it once was.

Did anyone end up going here and what the current conditions are?

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mission146

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

They do nothing when casinos confiscate a player's slot vouchers, so I don't suspect they care. This has been my personal experience.
link to original post

I suspect they would care greatly if the casino refused to give you your money.
link to original post

The casino did refuse to give me my money. I contacted Gaming. After promising to get back to me after their monthly meeting wherein these things are discussed, they did not do so and subsequently ignored every single one of my phone messages.
link to original post

You have to be adamant that gaming comes immediately. In Atlantic City for example you have to state that this is a customer dispute and you want gaming to be involved and to contact the onsite gaming officer which by law they have to do.

Refuse to leave the casino until they give you the money. All they will do is say you are trespassing and call precisely the person you want to come settle the dispute and get you your money.
link to original post

Your experience is vastly different than mine. I had a sportsbook in AC lock my tickets and refuse to pay me until I gave ID. I asked where it said in their rules I was required. They didn’t answer that and threw my tickets back and said you don’t want to give ID, we’re not cashing these (it was about $3000). I asked how do I contact gaming. He said slightly sarcastically ok you go out here you go down to Tennesse Ave and gaming is there. I went there cause I just wanted to talk to someone. They wouldn’t even open the door or let me in. You can’t call anyone. They just handed me a clipboard and said fill this out.

A couple months later they did sent a very thorough and professional investigation letter. Basically they said they can’t make the casino do anything they just give an opinion as to whether they are violating the law. In my case they said they were entitled to not cash the vouchers because the sportsbook lied to them that they had told me not to make multiple bets at the kiosk even though this was the first bet I’d ever made at the place.

I don’t believe your widespread experience with law enforcement and regulators. They don’t care. Right off the bat if they are called to a situation they are going to assume the customer is causing a disturbance, probably cause that’s what the casino told them. They will not care about your legal arguments. This happened to me in AC, perhaps the most player protected gaming jurisdiction. I didn’t want to call gaming. I’m not there to prove a point.

Reason 1,000,000 AC is circling the drain

Quote: mcallister3200

Reason 1,000,000 AC is circling the drain
link to original post

LOL

Lol Biloxi has 1200 slot checker each casino very bad whoever said that is woefully misinformed.

Quote: Mathodds123

Lol Biloxi has 1200 slot checker each casino very bad whoever said that is woefully misinformed.
link to original post

Biloxi has a team of Asians running the floor.

But Vicksburg has nobody and Tunics was decent.

Quote: Sandybestdog

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mission146

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

They do nothing when casinos confiscate a player's slot vouchers, so I don't suspect they care. This has been my personal experience.
link to original post

I suspect they would care greatly if the casino refused to give you your money.
link to original post

The casino did refuse to give me my money. I contacted Gaming. After promising to get back to me after their monthly meeting wherein these things are discussed, they did not do so and subsequently ignored every single one of my phone messages.
link to original post

You have to be adamant that gaming comes immediately. In Atlantic City for example you have to state that this is a customer dispute and you want gaming to be involved and to contact the onsite gaming officer which by law they have to do.

Refuse to leave the casino until they give you the money. All they will do is say you are trespassing and call precisely the person you want to come settle the dispute and get you your money.
link to original post

Your experience is vastly different than mine. I had a sportsbook in AC lock my tickets and refuse to pay me until I gave ID. I asked where it said in their rules I was required. They didn’t answer that and threw my tickets back and said you don’t want to give ID, we’re not cashing these (it was about $3000). I asked how do I contact gaming. He said slightly sarcastically ok you go out here you go down to Tennesse Ave and gaming is there. I went there cause I just wanted to talk to someone. They wouldn’t even open the door or let me in. You can’t call anyone. They just handed me a clipboard and said fill this out.

A couple months later they did sent a very thorough and professional investigation letter. Basically they said they can’t make the casino do anything they just give an opinion as to whether they are violating the law. In my case they said they were entitled to not cash the vouchers because the sportsbook lied to them that they had told me not to make multiple bets at the kiosk even though this was the first bet I’d ever made at the place.

I don’t believe your widespread experience with law enforcement and regulators. They don’t care. Right off the bat if they are called to a situation they are going to assume the customer is causing a disturbance, probably cause that’s what the casino told them. They will not care about your legal arguments. This happened to me in AC, perhaps the most player protected gaming jurisdiction. I didn’t want to call gaming. I’m not there to prove a point.
link to original post

I'm sorry you had that experience.

I should point out I haven't had a run-in with security since before the pandemic. It's possible they've changed their face to face procedures as quite a few markets and businesses have.

I don't understand why you didn't just supply your ID? Certainly you had to identify yourself to gaming in order to make the complaint. I guarantee the casino has your information now as well.