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WABJ11
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calwatch
March 11th, 2023 at 3:17:03 PM permalink
Vicksburg Mississippi, Tunica, and to a lesser extent Biloxi have some of the best slot AP opportunities. Thereís no AP slot players in Vicksburg. They have hexbreaker, and there are great opportunities on cash falls, piggies, youíre competing with nobody.
AxelWolf
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HunterhillRomes
March 11th, 2023 at 4:00:42 PM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg Mississippi, Tunica, and to a lesser extent Biloxi have some of the best slot AP opportunities. Thereís no AP slot players in Vicksburg. They have hexbreaker, and there are great opportunities on cash falls, piggies, youíre competing with nobody.
link to original post

LOL.

There will be soon, but the cynical part of me, makes me believe that's your intention with this post.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WABJ11
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March 11th, 2023 at 4:06:59 PM permalink
Itís done for me. Feast your eyes out.
AxelWolf
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ALGmcallister3200NathanVRomes
March 11th, 2023 at 5:25:51 PM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Itís done for me. Feast your eyes out.
link to original post

Not my type of gig, but thanx. It doesn't affect me either way. Regardless, I don't understand the reason for public outing plays that somome may be working. I feel bad for those who might be.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WABJ11
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calwatchWizard
March 11th, 2023 at 11:19:32 PM permalink
Just trying to give an opportunity to others. Donít think giving back to the community would be a bad thing.
TheCapitalShip
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NathanVAxelWolfHunterhillALGRomes
March 12th, 2023 at 2:52:28 PM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Just trying to give an opportunity to others. Donít think giving back to the community would be a bad thing.
link to original post



You may be well intentioned but announcing something like this hurts way more than it helps.

Imagine if you are the only person doing this in this area, and then all of the sudden someone announces with a gigantic megaphone that there is money to be made here, and instead of just one person checking all these machines, it's 5-6, and when you have that many people all doing this at the same time? You're basically cutting the profit for all involved into peanuts.

And even if there is nobody doing it, well, announcing this on a public forum, you're gonna have multiple people now converge on it, and again, when you have to many people doing this at the same time, you're cutting up any potential profit into peanuts.

And what if so many people start checking to the point these casinos might remove these machines? Which kills the opportunities completely.

I used to think when I first started doing this that free information is helpful (and let's be fair eventually any opportunity will become public knowledge at some point, it's just a matter of when), but ultimately when you just out juicy opportunities like this out in the open, you are doing more damage than you think. Or killing said opportunity way sooner than otherwise.
AxelWolf
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UsernameRemorse
March 12th, 2023 at 4:33:25 PM permalink
Quote: TheCapitalShip

Quote: WABJ11

Just trying to give an opportunity to others. Donít think giving back to the community would be a bad thing.
link to original post



You may be well intentioned but announcing something like this hurts way more than it helps.

Imagine if you are the only person doing this in this area, and then all of the sudden someone announces with a gigantic megaphone that there is money to be made here, and instead of just one person checking all these machines, it's 5-6, and when you have that many people all doing this at the same time? You're basically cutting the profit for all involved into peanuts.

And even if there is nobody doing it, well, announcing this on a public forum, you're gonna have multiple people now converge on it, and again, when you have to many people doing this at the same time, you're cutting up any potential profit into peanuts.

And what if so many people start checking to the point these casinos might remove these machines? Which kills the opportunities completely.

I used to think when I first started doing this that free information is helpful (and let's be fair eventually any opportunity will become public knowledge at some point, it's just a matter of when), but ultimately when you just out juicy opportunities like this out in the open, you are doing more damage than you think. Or killing said opportunity way sooner than otherwise.
link to original post

Well said.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WABJ11
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calwatch
March 12th, 2023 at 6:12:33 PM permalink
Vicksburg and that whole area of Mississippi have nobody working it. Except Biloxi has the Asians in the Buffalo room.

Sorry Iím trying to help out others.
AxelWolf
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March 12th, 2023 at 10:15:31 PM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg and that whole area of Mississippi have nobody working it. Except Biloxi has the Asians in the Buffalo room.

Sorry Iím trying to help out others.
link to original post

Someone might have the argument that it doesn't matter how money is distributed among APs.

A)A few people can potentially split up $2000 over a few days and it's worthwhile.
B)8000 people potentially pick twenty-five cents over a few days, that's probably not worth it especially if you were to include the costs of picking it up.

Is A or B better?

Someone could argue both sides I guess.

It's almost certain that the more people who are involved the quicker something will end cutting down that potential 2k drastically.

Let's not forget, there are always Darksiders out there taking in free information and using that Against Advantage Players.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WABJ11
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calwatch
March 12th, 2023 at 10:28:26 PM permalink
Whatever you say. Iím leaving the country and wanted to help out slot players. Vicksburg has the best slot opportunities in the country and no competition. Tunica is the same.
calwatch
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rawtuffDobrijWABJ11
March 13th, 2023 at 2:30:04 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

[
A)A few people can potentially split up $2000 over a few days and it's worthwhile.
B)8000 people potentially pick twenty-five cents over a few days, that's probably not worth it especially if you were to include the costs of picking it up.
link to original post



I would argue B.
If someone has no connections or network, then posting it on a public forum rather than seeing the opportunity die is preferable in my opinion. Assuming the information was obtained on their own and there were no conditions when they received the information, it is their business whether or not they want to share. I hate it when advantage players try to shame people who find things out on their own from sharing openly. No one is entitled to play at an advantage. If you can make it, great, but don't cry when it goes away. Find another advantage elsewhere and keep it to yourself then.

Now, if a play was shared with someone in confidence then it would not be appropriate to broadcast it openly, but I find promotions that I can't take advantage of that may be +EV at my local casinos and, if it seems that people can take advantage of them, I will broadcast them on this forum, which is fine.
SOOPOO
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calwatchDobrij
March 13th, 2023 at 7:32:29 AM permalink
This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here. He himself has been doing around a monthly Ďrevealí of a slot play.

I am an example of someone who ONLY because of this forum now makes a little $$ on some of these slot plays. That is basically why this forum was started!
gamerfreak
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March 13th, 2023 at 7:42:43 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here. He himself has been doing around a monthly Ďrevealí of a slot play.

I am an example of someone who ONLY because of this forum now makes a little $$ on some of these slot plays. That is basically why this forum was started!
link to original post


Yea I agree. These things arenít that easy to figure out on your own, or at least I donít have the time or inclination.
mcallister3200
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March 13th, 2023 at 8:11:52 AM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg and that whole area of Mississippi have nobody working it. Except Biloxi has the Asians in the Buffalo room.

Sorry Iím trying to help out others.
link to original post



This is simply factually incorrect, just because you didnít happen to see it while you were there doesnít mean it doesnít exist.

Iím not going to debate back and forth with you if itís true you were there, but I have firsthand knowledge itís not. Biloxi comments are way, way off.

It is true that this is settled policy on this forum as SooPoo pointed out, and it is also true that many or most APís that participated years ago either chose to leave, not actively participate or were run off as a result, depending on your interpretation of all of it.

The run off interpretation would be it was the exodus was knowingly and willingly caused. Thereís a very vague rule here (they most are) about controversial topics off limit, and when we had what by response happened to be the most controversial thread Iíve ever seen on this forum, it was sanctioned by the person creating that rule. Huh?

Trying to change anyoneís mind on the subject is a fools errand and a lesson in accepting things you canít change imo, some will change their mind with experience but no one is changing it for them.
Last edited by: mcallister3200 on Mar 13, 2023
Mental
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March 13th, 2023 at 8:49:16 AM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg Mississippi, Tunica, and to a lesser extent Biloxi have some of the best slot AP opportunities. Thereís no AP slot players in Vicksburg. They have hexbreaker, and there are great opportunities on cash falls, piggies, youíre competing with nobody.
link to original post

I have been to all three of these cities. I consider Vicksburg and Tunica to be too remote to attract fly-in players and I haven't gone there in five years.. If you are already local, you already know the scene. Otherwise, how does this help? I have been to Biloxi more often recently and I think it is laughable that you think there is no competition for slot plays. NOLA is better than Biloxi due to the surplus of drunk tourists leaving games.

Why not mention also Mardi Gras Casino in Cross Lanes, WV? I am sure many of us will be flying there tomorrow.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
mcallister3200
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March 13th, 2023 at 9:05:46 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg Mississippi, Tunica, and to a lesser extent Biloxi have some of the best slot AP opportunities. Thereís no AP slot players in Vicksburg. They have hexbreaker, and there are great opportunities on cash falls, piggies, youíre competing with nobody.
link to original post

I have been to all three of these cities. I consider Vicksburg and Tunica to be too remote to attract fly-in players and I haven't gone there in five years.. If you are already local, you already know the scene. Otherwise, how does this help? .
link to original post



If it was all currently true, with something easy thatís any good, by the time someone gets there it will no longer be true or will no longer be true in a matter of days.

So yes, it really isnít even helpful if trying to help in that sense. It seems like this wasnít as true to the extent it is today in early forum days.
Dieter
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March 13th, 2023 at 10:33:55 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200


Thereís a very vague rule here (they most are) about controversial topics off limit, and when we had what by response happened to be the most controversial thread Iíve ever seen on this forum, it was sanctioned by the person creating that rule. Huh?
link to original post



{Heavily truncated}


My personal understanding of the rule is that controversial topics not directly related to the forum's core of gambling, math, and Vegas are to be avoided.

My official understanding can accept correction as needed.

My unrelated understanding is that most of the moderators can hold two or more simultaneous contrary opinions on many subjects.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AxelWolf
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March 13th, 2023 at 12:03:30 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here.

Not so fast buco. IIRC Mike was not on board with some aspects. I can't remember his wording on the exact timeframe, or circumstances, but something along the lines of not outing plays that will cause Advadage Players(or members here) financial harm. Something like that. DarkOz might remember.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DRich
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:17:06 PM permalink
Quote: Mental



Why not mention also Mardi Gras Casino in Cross Lanes, WV? I am sure many of us will be flying there tomorrow.



If there is enough money to be made I think many of us will go there.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
AxelWolf
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:38:50 PM permalink
An anonymous source clued me in on something that might lead to some insight as to what's going on here.

Colin from BJA may have interviewed the OP and someone else regarding some backroomings and settlements. This may be a ... let's punish casinos for their transgressions situation.

I will let people do their own research investigation if they care to do so.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
calwatch
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:45:44 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here.

Not so fast buco. IIRC Mike was not on board with some aspects. I can't remember his wording on the exact timeframe, or circumstances, but something along the lines of not outing plays that will cause Advadage Players(or members here) financial harm. Something like that. DarkOz might remember.
link to original post



I've been a forum member here for some time and I don't recall that. The only one I remember was to respect the source of the info. If something was shared to you in confidence, you should not broadcast it further. But when I tried to slightly obfuscate a +EV play at Morongo, the Wiz helpfully linked to it, exposing it further. I commented on the Gambling with an Edge podcast that I had no issue with it being broadcast, although it may have attracted players from outside the immediate region, like the Triple Down promo at Mohegan Sun back in the day. No one is entitled to make money from a casino. People should communicate with their trusted networks, should they exist, and use their own judgment as what is appropriate to reveal, but I would be opposed to any policy barring reveals.
LESLOSACKETT
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:52:13 PM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Just trying to give an opportunity to others. Donít think giving back to the community would be a bad thing.
link to original post[/



If you want to give back to the community, tithe 10% of your winnings to Gamblers Anonymous. No, I am not in favor of banning casinos . Just seen too many lives and families destroyed by gambling addiction. Harder in most cases than drug addiction. Nobody likes a guy high on drugs, but everybody loves a WINNER !

AxelWolf
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March 13th, 2023 at 1:55:56 PM permalink
Quote: calwatch

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here.

Not so fast buco. IIRC Mike was not on board with some aspects. I can't remember his wording on the exact timeframe, or circumstances, but something along the lines of not outing plays that will cause Advadage Players(or members here) financial harm. Something like that. DarkOz might remember.
link to original post



I've been a forum member here for some time and I don't recall that. The only one I remember was to respect the source of the info. If something was shared to you in confidence, you should not broadcast it further. But when I tried to slightly obfuscate a +EV play at Morongo, the Wiz helpfully linked to it, exposing it further. I commented on the Gambling with an Edge podcast that I had no issue with it being broadcast, although it may have attracted players from outside the immediate region, like the Triple Down promo at Mohegan Sun back in the day. No one is entitled to make money from a casino. People should communicate with their trusted networks, should they exist, and use their own judgment as what is appropriate to reveal, but I would be opposed to any policy barring reveals.
link to original post

FYI I dont think that the OP was or is doing anything that rises to any serious level, information isn't specific enough.

As I said, I dont recall exactly was what said or how things went down, it was more than one situation, but it seemed to me that Mike had changed his views on certain aspects regarding all that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
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March 13th, 2023 at 2:00:01 PM permalink
There have been a few incidents (involving myself) that have led to these issues.

First up was the tax day offer at some casino in Vegas. Every jackpot won on tax day had some highly valuable bonus cash. Don't remember the exact details.

What I do remember is this. Living on the East Coast I had no particular interest in the play and certainly wasn't flying out for it. I found out about it in an Atlantic City newspaper which was advertising the promotion.

I posted about it figuring I would help my fellow buddies on WOV with a valuable play they might have missed. Instead I got abusive PM's that I had outed a highly valuable play (nationally advertised coast to coast nonetheless so chutzpah to AP's centrist world).

Some forum members realized they could take the post down by organizing a spam report of the item. It was autostruck from the sight. I quizzed Wizard what terms of service I had broken for mods to remove it

That initiated an investigation to see what occurred and the perpetrators were quickly discovered and given I think three day suspension.

Wizard directly addressed that gambling threads involving plays are certainly not in violation here from publicly available sources AND THEN went on to mathematically break down the odds of that particular promotion and the best plan of attack

That really pissed off everyone BUT NOT AT THE WIZARD!!! Everyone started saying I had ruined it further even though I had nothing to do with the Wizard doing the math breakdown but that's really what this sight is for so can't see how everyone complained.

Anyway that was NOT the exodus. That happened at a later incident.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
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March 13th, 2023 at 2:03:15 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

There have been a few incidents (involving myself) that have led to these issues.

First up was the tax day offer at some casino in Vegas. Every jackpot won on tax day had some highly valuable bonus cash. Don't remember the exact details.

What I do remember is this. Living on the East Coast I had no particular interest in the play and certainly wasn't flying out for it. I found out about it in an Atlantic City newspaper which was advertising the promotion.

I posted about it figuring I would help my fellow buddies on WOV with a valuable play they might have missed. Instead I got abusive PM's that I had outed a play (nationally advertised coast to coast nonetheless so chutzpah to AP's centrist world).

Some forum members realized they could take the post down by organizing a spam report of the item. It was autostruck from the sight. I quizzed Wizard what terms of service I had broken for mods to remove it

That initiated an investigation to see what occurred and the perpetrators were quickly discovered and given I think three day suspension.

Wizard directly addressed that gambling threads are certainly not in violation here AND THEN went on to mathematically break down the odds of that particular promotion and the best plan of attack

That really pissed off everyone BUT NOT AT THE WIZARD!!! Everyone started saying I had ruined it further even though I had nothing to do with the Wizard doing the math breakdown but that's really what this sight is for so can't see how everyone complained.

Anyway that was NOT the exodus. That happened at a later incident.
link to original post

What I'm talking about was after the TaxDay promo.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
calwatch
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March 13th, 2023 at 3:15:52 PM permalink
Here is the thread in question: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/las-vegas-casinos/plaza/25531-plaza-casino-bonus-for-tax-day-reposted/

I honestly don't think there were that many APs here in 2016, and whatever they are talking about now is either on other forums or in DMs, which is fine. The APs won't share with me what they know, but I am not trying to get into their business and play slots or table games for a living. But if I discover something and can't make use of it, I am going to share and broadcast it widely if many people will benefit.
AxelWolf
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March 13th, 2023 at 4:24:01 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: darkoz



Wizard directly addressed that gambling threads are certainly not in violation here AND THEN went on to mathematically break down the odds of that particular promotion and the best plan of attack

That was certainly not the best plan of attack or things to play for many reasons, and it totally backfired.

And prior to the promo they put the breaks on what the math guys and known VP guys thought were "The best" machines. That was directly related to Mike's post. Somome informed Jonathan Jossel ( He was very active in his gambling operations and promotions)of the Wizard's post and that machine was rendered unplayable leaving guys like Dancer, Mike, and a few other hopefuls with the assumption there was nothing else good really to play.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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March 13th, 2023 at 4:41:01 PM permalink
Quote: calwatch

Here is the thread in question: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/las-vegas-casinos/plaza/25531-plaza-casino-bonus-for-tax-day-reposted/

I honestly don't think there were that many APs here in 2016, and whatever they are talking about now is either on other forums or in DMs, which is fine. The APs won't share with me what they know, but I am not trying to get into their business and play slots or table games for a living. But if I discover something and can't make use of it, I am going to share and broadcast it widely if many people will benefit.
link to original post

There were significantly more Active posters who were APs in 2016 than there are now.

I have been fighting this uphill battle since the early '90s. Aside from some holdouts, eventually, most serious APs get it. Nowadays, it's hard to see the direct consciences of what TMI brings. Back in the 90's you saw and felt the imidate consciences costing individuals and APs as whole ungodly amounts of money.

There were many situations where A few could make a lot or no one makes anything.

Also when you publicly announce something you have no idea and no way to control what idiot or scorched earth MF might come along and F it up for everyone. Casinos don't always/often learn from or understand their mistakes. They definitely learn and understand from people bragging about it while having mathematical breakdowns thrown in their face.

Let's not forget that Darksiders get their information via learning it from Advantage Players.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Seedvalue
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PokerGrinder
March 17th, 2023 at 9:28:22 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: calwatch

Here is the thread in question: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/las-vegas-casinos/plaza/25531-plaza-casino-bonus-for-tax-day-reposted/

I honestly don't think there were that many APs here in 2016, and whatever they are talking about now is either on other forums or in DMs, which is fine. The APs won't share with me what they know, but I am not trying to get into their business and play slots or table games for a living. But if I discover something and can't make use of it, I am going to share and broadcast it widely if many people will benefit.
link to original post

There were significantly more Active posters who were APs in 2016 than there are now.

I have been fighting this uphill battle since the early '90s. Aside from some holdouts, eventually, most serious APs get it. Nowadays, it's hard to see the direct consciences of what TMI brings. Back in the 90's you saw and felt the imidate consciences costing individuals and APs as whole ungodly amounts of money.

There were many situations where A few could make a lot or no one makes anything.

Also when you publicly announce something you have no idea and no way to control what idiot or scorched earth MF might come along and F it up for everyone. Casinos don't always/often learn from or understand their mistakes. They definitely learn and understand from people bragging about it while having mathematical breakdowns thrown in their face.

Let's not forget that Darksiders get their information via learning it from Advantage Players.
link to original post



I had one of the biggest plays of my career last year ruined by morons posting the exact way to do in on private discords. A play worth 30k to 35k a week using 4 people working 15 to 18 hours a week. Within days of them posting the game was fixed and the entire players club halted. The morons posting had no idea of how to really exploit the flaw. These types of things are happening more frequently. As people rather post how smart they are, and what they know instead of actually running the play. It completely changed my outlook on things. No Longer will I play the long game on these types of plays. I blow the game directly out the minute I find something.
Seedvalue
Seedvalue
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March 17th, 2023 at 9:30:46 AM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg and that whole area of Mississippi have nobody working it. Except Biloxi has the Asians in the Buffalo room.

Sorry Iím trying to help out others.
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I think Raymond may disagree lol
Seedvalue
Seedvalue
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Mental
March 17th, 2023 at 9:39:18 AM permalink
I will follow up that many new guys (and some older well known guys here ) are using lazy runners. So lazy they canít manage to move one seat over to a different machine when conducting business. Then people want to complain about things getting locked. Maybe act like a professional, and conduct your business respecting the other side. They guys who get paid to stop us. Yeah they do exist
darkoz
darkoz
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March 17th, 2023 at 1:48:40 PM permalink
Quote: Seedvalue

I will follow up that many new guys (and some older well known guys here ) are using lazy runners. So lazy they canít manage to move one seat over to a different machine when conducting business. Then people want to complain about things getting locked. Maybe act like a professional, and conduct your business respecting the other side. They guys who get paid to stop us. Yeah they do exist
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I understand what you say. But my experience is most casinos don't check for that. It would be very difficult because legit players may use their Freeplay and then get up and be followed by another legit player who downloads their Freeplay.

My experience is if they are checking at all it's for a ratio of Freeplay to ADT.

Also, it's almost never surveillance. It's usually caught by remote computer. For example I was caught one time in AC. Security notified me they were fully aware that I was using 21 cards. They practically boasted about it

Problem was I had 23 cards. The two cards that they didn't notice was because I had messed up on a multiplier day and earned half offers (my employees mistake but I forgot to warn them). As a result the offers were half the other cards.

Clearly they were not following which cards were used by eye. It also let me know I could beat them by going lower and avoiding their software.

But I always say it's actually security and surveillance that talks too much. They gave up so much info with that one brag.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Dobrij
Dobrij
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March 17th, 2023 at 6:54:40 PM permalink
Quote: calwatch

I hate it when advantage players try to shame people who find things out on their own from sharing openly. No one is entitled to play at an advantage. If you can make it, great, but don't cry when it goes away. Find another advantage elsewhere and keep it to yourself then.



Agree. They are just jackals, they canít do anything else in life. True professionals will always find a way to get the advantage.
Seedvalue
Seedvalue
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March 18th, 2023 at 10:53:49 AM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

Quote: calwatch

I hate it when advantage players try to shame people who find things out on their own from sharing openly. No one is entitled to play at an advantage. If you can make it, great, but don't cry when it goes away. Find another advantage elsewhere and keep it to yourself then.



Agree. They are just jackals, they canít do anything else in life. True professionals will always find a way to get the advantage.
link to original post



What canít I do in real life ? Lol
Seedvalue
Seedvalue
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March 18th, 2023 at 11:04:41 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Seedvalue

I will follow up that many new guys (and some older well known guys here ) are using lazy runners. So lazy they canít manage to move one seat over to a different machine when conducting business. Then people want to complain about things getting locked. Maybe act like a professional, and conduct your business respecting the other side. They guys who get paid to stop us. Yeah they do exist
link to original post



I understand what you say. But my experience is most casinos don't check for that. It would be very difficult because legit players may use their Freeplay and then get up and be followed by another legit player who downloads their Freeplay.

My experience is if they are checking at all it's for a ratio of Freeplay to ADT.

Also, it's almost never surveillance. It's usually caught by remote computer. For example I was caught one time in AC. Security notified me they were fully aware that I was using 21 cards. They practically boasted about it

Problem was I had 23 cards. The two cards that they didn't notice was because I had messed up on a multiplier day and earned half offers (my employees mistake but I forgot to warn them). As a result the offers were half the other cards.

Clearly they were not following which cards were used by eye. It also let me know I could beat them by going lower and avoiding their software.

But I always say it's actually security and surveillance that talks too much. They gave up so much info with that one brag.
link to original post



Well let me clue you in on what the local hustlers are doing who are against cards. These guys are so delusional they believe they are making less money because of guys like you. Classic need to blame others for their shortcomings. So these guys are spending a good portion of their day snapping photos of anyone they think is redeeming or building. Then they forward this information to security. So they are in essence working for the casino for free lol. So if I was you I would make an effort not to do what I Eluded to above. Inform your people to be more discreet. I have invested some Time, and money into counter surveillance of these losers so if you would like to know who they are I can can share on signal. Trust me they are in many casinos in your area. Real pieces of work these guys lol. You probably donít care nor do I as nothing they do will ever disrupt something I want or need to get done. If anything it will make me go harder in the areas they are defending.
darkoz
darkoz
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March 18th, 2023 at 12:30:47 PM permalink
Quote: Seedvalue

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Seedvalue

I will follow up that many new guys (and some older well known guys here ) are using lazy runners. So lazy they canít manage to move one seat over to a different machine when conducting business. Then people want to complain about things getting locked. Maybe act like a professional, and conduct your business respecting the other side. They guys who get paid to stop us. Yeah they do exist
link to original post



I understand what you say. But my experience is most casinos don't check for that. It would be very difficult because legit players may use their Freeplay and then get up and be followed by another legit player who downloads their Freeplay.

My experience is if they are checking at all it's for a ratio of Freeplay to ADT.

Also, it's almost never surveillance. It's usually caught by remote computer. For example I was caught one time in AC. Security notified me they were fully aware that I was using 21 cards. They practically boasted about it

Problem was I had 23 cards. The two cards that they didn't notice was because I had messed up on a multiplier day and earned half offers (my employees mistake but I forgot to warn them). As a result the offers were half the other cards.

Clearly they were not following which cards were used by eye. It also let me know I could beat them by going lower and avoiding their software.

But I always say it's actually security and surveillance that talks too much. They gave up so much info with that one brag.
link to original post



Well let me clue you in on what the local hustlers are doing who are against cards. These guys are so delusional they believe they are making less money because of guys like you. Classic need to blame others for their shortcomings. So these guys are spending a good portion of their day snapping photos of anyone they think is redeeming or building. Then they forward this information to security. So they are in essence working for the casino for free lol. So if I was you I would make an effort not to do what I Eluded to above. Inform your people to be more discreet. I have invested some Time, and money into counter surveillance of these losers so if you would like to know who they are I can can share on signal. Trust me they are in many casinos in your area. Real pieces of work these guys lol. You probably donít care nor do I as nothing they do will ever disrupt something I want or need to get done. If anything it will make me go harder in the areas they are defending.
link to original post



The average gambler sits at a slot for some period of time. IMO it actually would look more suspicious if you have 100 cards and switched seats 100 times.

These guys you are mentioning would have to be staring at someone redeeming their Freeplay literally just sitting watching each "suspect" for ten minutes until they went through one card and switched to another.

I'm not trying to say it's not something suspicious going on but there is something suspect about what you claim
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 18th, 2023 at 1:13:05 PM permalink
You got to love the guys with headphones, especially the ones who pack their lunch.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Dobrij
Dobrij
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March 18th, 2023 at 3:49:10 PM permalink
If you want to prevent people from talking on the Internet, especially on forums dedicated to this, you are either a complete loser or an idiot.

Laugh, laugh, what else can you do.
mcallister3200
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TheCapitalShip
March 18th, 2023 at 4:46:13 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

If you want to prevent people from talking on the Internet, especially on forums dedicated to this, you are either a complete loser or an idiot.

Laugh, laugh, what else can you do.
link to original post



I would go with a little bit immature, havenít yet learned to accept the things they cannot change, rather than flagrantly insulting a broad swath of people of above average intelligence who you know are members in good standing.

Like Axel said, many change their opinion in time, usually only after they suffer some consequence, but if that opinion changes it will be with experience. You cannot change it, people will be defiant to your reasoning and itís counterproductive, accept it imo. People also have a right to their opinions and it comes across as selfish and gate keeping even though those doing it genuinely believe itís for the best.
Dieter
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Dieter
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March 18th, 2023 at 5:23:49 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz



The average gambler sits at a slot for some period of time. IMO it actually would look more suspicious if you have 100 cards and switched seats 100 times.

link to original post


quote trimmed


From what I've seen, the average gambler also pulls out their loyalty card from time to time, with hopes of tricking the machine into paying a jackpot. Some even cash out, to "trick" their favorite machine into resetting out of "beast mode".

You did start each new sessionette by putting a pink $5 note in the acceptor face down, right?
May the cards fall in your favor.
Dieter
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Dieter
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March 18th, 2023 at 5:27:15 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

If you want to prevent people from talking on the Internet, especially on forums dedicated to this, you are either a complete loser or an idiot.

Laugh, laugh, what else can you do.
link to original post



Warning: that is painfully close to a personal insult.

If another mod overrides me, I won't object.
May the cards fall in your favor.
darkoz
darkoz
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March 18th, 2023 at 6:04:37 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: darkoz



The average gambler sits at a slot for some period of time. IMO it actually would look more suspicious if you have 100 cards and switched seats 100 times.

link to original post


quote trimmed


From what I've seen, the average gambler also pulls out their loyalty card from time to time, with hopes of tricking the machine into paying a jackpot. Some even cash out, to "trick" their favorite machine into resetting out of "beast mode".

You did start each new sessionette by putting a pink $5 note in the acceptor face down, right?

link to original post



In fact many gamblers pull their cards to update their points onscreen. Some casinos you can see the acrual of points as you go but quite a few you need to pull the card and reinsert.

Often casinos offer point earning specials. Like earn 100 points and qualify for the days free gift. People are constantly checking to see if they have qualified yet
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Dieter
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Dieter
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March 18th, 2023 at 6:20:20 PM permalink
I think there is only one casino in my rotation that hasn't updated tracking systems to something that actively displays points accrued this session, so I tend to forget about the more mundane reasons to pull a card.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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Hunterhill
March 18th, 2023 at 7:44:59 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Quote: Dobrij

If you want to prevent people from talking on the Internet, especially on forums dedicated to this, you are either a complete loser or an idiot.

Laugh, laugh, what else can you do.
link to original post



I would go with a little bit immature, havenít yet learned to accept the things they cannot change, rather than flagrantly insulting a broad swath of people of above average intelligence who you know are members in good standing.

Like Axel said, many change their opinion in time, usually only after they suffer some consequence, but if that opinion changes it will be with experience. You cannot change it, people will be defiant to your reasoning and itís counterproductive, accept it imo. People also have a right to their opinions and it comes across as selfish and gate keeping even though those doing it genuinely believe itís for the best.
link to original post

Even just changing one person's mind about posting one play could be a huge deal. Take a drawing for example. One where you have a chance to have 80% of the tickets on a 25k draw for a low cost. Add one more competing Advantage Player and you just cut your EV in half. Add a few more APs and the casino catches on to the low-cost method of earning tickets and they restrict that method then, and for future promotions.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
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Wizard
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calwatch
March 18th, 2023 at 8:04:28 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here. He himself has been doing around a monthly Ďrevealí of a slot play.

I am an example of someone who ONLY because of this forum now makes a little $$ on some of these slot plays. That is basically why this forum was started!
link to original post



Thank you! This sums up my position well.

Outing plays is absolutely allowed here. My goal is to make people better gamblers. Hiding information on how to do that is contrary to my mission.
ďExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.Ē -- Carl Sagan
DRich
DRich
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March 19th, 2023 at 7:20:04 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here. He himself has been doing around a monthly Ďrevealí of a slot play.

I am an example of someone who ONLY because of this forum now makes a little $$ on some of these slot plays. That is basically why this forum was started!
link to original post



Thank you! This sums up my position well.

Outing plays is absolutely allowed here. My goal is to make people better gamblers. Hiding information on how to do that is contrary to my mission.
link to original post



I kind of agree. This forum should be about education. Why do we have an education system? Teaching young people is +EV to the whole community but may be -EV to some individuals. Teaching young people to be engineers or mathematicians could be detrimental to current engineers and mathematicians because it creates more competition for the available positions.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
rxwine
rxwine
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March 19th, 2023 at 7:35:29 AM permalink
Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead." ĖBenjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack

"When a secret is revealed, it is the fault of the man who confided it." ĖJean de La Bruyère

"A secret remains a secret until you make someone promise never to reveal it." ĖFausto Cercignani

"How can we expect another to keep our secret if we cannot keep it ourselves." ĖFrançois de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims

"To keep your own secrets is wisdom; but to expect others to keep them is folly." ĖWilliam Scott Downey, Proverbs
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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rxwineJoeman
March 19th, 2023 at 7:51:42 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead." ĖBenjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack

"When a secret is revealed, it is the fault of the man who confided it." ĖJean de La Bruyère

"A secret remains a secret until you make someone promise never to reveal it." ĖFausto Cercignani

"How can we expect another to keep our secret if we cannot keep it ourselves." ĖFrançois de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims

"To keep your own secrets is wisdom; but to expect others to keep them is folly." ĖWilliam Scott Downey, Proverbs
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I sent the above to Rx and he promised me he wouldnít reveal them to anyoneÖ..
Mental
Mental
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Hunterhill
March 19th, 2023 at 7:53:58 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Wizard

Quote: SOOPOO

This is settled law here at WoV. Mike has made it clear that outing these plays is approved behavior here. He himself has been doing around a monthly Ďrevealí of a slot play.

I am an example of someone who ONLY because of this forum now makes a little $$ on some of these slot plays. That is basically why this forum was started!
link to original post



Thank you! This sums up my position well.

Outing plays is absolutely allowed here. My goal is to make people better gamblers. Hiding information on how to do that is contrary to my mission.
link to original post



I kind of agree. This forum should be about education. Why do we have an education system? Teaching young people is +EV to the whole community but may be -EV to some individuals. Teaching young people to be engineers or mathematicians could be detrimental to current engineers and mathematicians because it creates more competition for the available positions.
link to original post

I am all for education. This forum is a for-profit educational institution. Anyone in a profession affected by competition has to live with this source of competition. Some trades and professions use the government to suppress this source of competition through licensing. Good luck with that here.

Here, we have a situation where education can help the casino and hurt the gambling public. When a play is not widely known, the AP can wait for it to get deeply +EV before taking it. This helps the casual players since they get more +EV play. Once a play in Vegas gets know, 10 people check the play every hour. The play then generates de minimis benefits to the AP community. The casual players are harmed by having lower EV and annoyed by the constant flow of APs looking over their shoulder or worse.

It is anyone's right to out plays for reasons of ego, spite, or profit. It is my right to view this as harmful to players and helpful to casinos.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
sevencard2003
sevencard2003
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March 19th, 2023 at 10:57:48 AM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

Vicksburg and that whole area of Mississippi have nobody working it. Except Biloxi has the Asians in the Buffalo room.

Sorry Iím trying to help out others.
link to original post



anyone ever take into account it could be the reason they arent many aps visible there is the casino is immediately banning anyone checking machines who appears to be an ap?
sevencard2003.blogspot.com

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