Poll

4 votes (12.12%)
26 votes (78.78%)
4 votes (12.12%)

33 members have voted

DRich
DRich
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October 1st, 2019 at 9:33:00 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Not saying it is the case here, but if a person could sense.the hole cards, is it cheating?



I think most of us would say noas long as he is not doing anything to the cards (ie. marking). Then again, just like the Phil Ivey cases the courts would disagreewith us.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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October 1st, 2019 at 12:10:19 PM permalink
Not long after my post, it became overwhelmingly obvious that he was guilty. To the point that I too would likely vote guilty on a criminal charge... if all or most of these things pan out. And if he has committed a crime, which he might not have. Which is to say, there might not be a speciffic law he has violated. It might not be illegal to cheat at poker.

These are assertions that haven't been 100% proven, but he does have defenders and many people started combing through evidence with an open mind. Most of us have little to no idea who he is, so it's not an effort to bring down a famous or controversial figure. People were initially very reluctant to make such accusations in public.

He has not had a losing session in 50 games on stream.

He will play any game on stream, from 1/3 up to 25/50/100 with famous high stakes pros. He does not play much off stream, especially above 5/5. He usually quits the second the broadcast ends.

Nobody can find a hand that he did not play as if he could see the other person's cards. Yes, he lost some big pots when a big bluff was called with A high or a low pair. But that is how he'd play if he could see their cards. In his defense he posted a hand where he paid off $40 with 2pair against a flush. And another hand where he agonized for 5 minutes before folding 86 to a huge all in bluff on a board of like 28t9J. Non-gods snap fold. Cheaters aganozize about it being too obvious to call, but worth a lot of money.

He was involved with setting up the stream.

As the best poker player to ever live by far, he is not a famous multi-millionaire.
unJon
unJon
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AxelWolf
October 1st, 2019 at 1:22:41 PM permalink
There’s also chatter now that he wasn’t the only person in the live streams to have an incredibly unlikely set of wins. Will be very interesting to see how it all shakes out and who else was involved.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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October 1st, 2019 at 2:48:46 PM permalink
The room manager claims they investigated and found nothing wrong. Seems impossible.

But it seems impossible that anybody could watch more than a few hours and not get suspicious. Though a lot of people were suspicious and even convinced cheating was going on and just didn't come forward publicly.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 1st, 2019 at 3:06:17 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux


Yes, he lost some big pots when a big bluff was called with A high or a low pair.

In situations where he would never expect anybody to call. The only reason they called is because of the guys history and them knowing he's capable and frequently bluffing with absolutely nothing. In his mind at the time he's thinking there's absolutely no way these guys can call.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 1st, 2019 at 3:13:22 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

The room manager claims they investigated and found nothing wrong.

Was that after this all came out? I think they would need access to look into this guy more. I would think he got rid of all the evidence by now. It's very possible people are looking in the wrong areas.

I have a feeling they're not investigating very hard the room manager certainly wouldn't want to admit there was cheating going on in his room they might even be held liable and on the hook for lots of money. For all we know the room manager is in on it.

Do the dealer somehow deal any differently because it's a live stream? Perhaps it's easier to see the cards as they're being pitched to the players and that information is being fed to him?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 1st, 2019 at 3:15:16 PM permalink
..................
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 1st, 2019 at 3:28:10 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Not saying it is the case here, but if a person could sense.the hole cards, is it cheating?

can you explain what you mean by sense the whole cards? I guess if someone had some superhuman abilities that allowed them to see the hole cards I wouldn't consider that illegal. If someone had that type of ability and that's what they were using their ability for they should probably be exiled.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
unJon
unJon
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Forager
October 1st, 2019 at 4:09:21 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

In situations where he would never expect anybody to call. The only reason they called is because of the guys history and them knowing he's capable and frequently bluffing with absolutely nothing. In his mind at the time he's thinking there's absolutely no way these guys can call.
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Only real update I see is that (despite previously announcing there was an investigation that cleared everyone) Stones is stopping all livestream games pending the results of an investigation. I hope CA gaming gets involved.

The circumstantial evidence continues to mount and be damming. I think it’s more likely you’ll see 18 yo’s in a row than that this guy wasn’t cheating.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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October 1st, 2019 at 5:24:58 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Only real update I see is that (despite previously announcing there was an investigation that cleared everyone) Stones is stopping all livestream games pending the results of an investigation. I hope CA gaming gets involved.



I wouldn't hold my breath.

It is impossible to convey how crooked gambling is in California. Like, if you went to some country in Eastern Europe or Africa and the gambling was as crooked as it is in CA, you'd be like, "well, I thought it would be bad, but not THIS bad."

I know this from playing poker there for many years, as well as working in the casinos. I mean, the example speaks for itself. The man goes 50 and 0 in streamed sessions. He plays every single hand as if he can see the opponent's hole cards. He takes hundreds of thousands from other customers.

The casino investigates and determines everything is fine.

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