PerpetualNewbie
PerpetualNewbie
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July 25th, 2011 at 3:22:04 PM permalink
Typically, the rule is you can ask the house to play for as much as your last hand. Everyone else is bound by the min/max rules of the table - although most people will bet the same amount as the prior hand or ask you before changing.

Some people don't like to play against a player-bank. "I want the casino's money, not yours," goes the thinking.

Personally, I ask. If a player is going to bank, I'll ask if they want me in or out. If I'm in, I'm in for whatever my flat bet is. If he asks for me to stay out ("To change the cards"), I'll respect his wishes and back out a hand.

I think that people make it more of an issue than it really is.

And, I can't imagine you can bank a hand of EZ-Pai Gow, either. Since there's no commission - the casino makes it's money purely on the basis of copy-hands. That's the only house edge. Allowing players to bank would render this game to have basically no house edge (if players had equal opportunity to bank).
Nareed
Nareed
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July 25th, 2011 at 3:28:04 PM permalink
Quote: PerpetualNewbie

I think that people make it more of an issue than it really is.



It must be the feel of being in an out of the ordinary situation. Aside from the poker room, you suually play against the casino, not against other players. So it feels different. I respect thsoe players who dont' want to take another player's money, but not those who have a superstitious aversion against a player exercising her right to bank.

Quote:

And, I can't imagine you can bank a hand of EZ-Pai Gow, either.



Dan posted that you can, but that the rules for that are set up so to make it very hard. I think it involves a comission, too.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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July 25th, 2011 at 3:28:58 PM permalink
Here in MN, the house can't participate in a player-banked game. So, if a player banks, his wager is effectively $0+sum(other players' wagers). In some ways, I like that. It eliminates the odd shifting of hands where whoever is banking is spot #1, which tends to eliminate confusion and speed play. It also tends to make the netting math a little easier, since no interaction with the tray is required until the commission is settled. On the other hand, if people bet low or don't play when a player banks, a lot of the benefit of banking is diminished - especially when there's no house hand for the banker to beat. There have been times when I've just gotten no action on hands I've wanted to bank.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
MrRalph
MrRalph
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July 25th, 2011 at 6:28:44 PM permalink
how common is the ez pai gow game in vegas?
PerpetualNewbie
PerpetualNewbie
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July 25th, 2011 at 6:47:15 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed


Dan posted that you can, but that the rules for that are set up so to make it very hard. I think it involves a comission, too.



Indeed, you are correct! From the Washingington state EZ Pai Gow description page:

Quote:


At the casino’s discretion, the opportunity to act as the banker can be offered to
players. If it is offered, the option to Bank will rotate around the table to each player,
skipping players who decline to bank. If a player elects to act as the banker, a 5%
commission will be charged on his net wins rounded up to the nearest dollar. The EZ
Pai Gow rules will still apply to the other players. Also, if the player wants to bank he
must have enough money on the table to pay off all winning bets of the other players
and dealer. The player must also have played a previous hand against the house
banker to bank. When a player is the banker the dealer will still play, betting an
amount equal to the last bet the player made when the dealer was banking.

Document



AKA - when player banks, the 'EZ' part of 'EZ Pai Gow' doesn't apply.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:32:33 PM permalink
Quote:

AKA - when player banks, the 'EZ' part of 'EZ Pai Gow' doesn't apply.


Yes. If you can't bank Blackjack or Roulette in the casino pit - why Pai Gow? Was one of the issues/requests I had when designing the game.
Well...it is because player banking is a vestige of the old LA card room origins....casinos hate it, it just bogs the game down, and many players are just trying to act suave by banking ("Look at me, I'm so sophisticated by banking!"), yada yada yada.
Most installs simply indicate "You wanna player-bank? - We have a poker room...")
The avoidance of player banking gets applied to all forms of Pai Gow, EZ Pai Gow Doesn't discriminate, the local house does.
From an operational and floor supervision point of view, it's just a mess.

As for location of EZ Pai Gow in the LV area:
1. East Side Cannery, Boulder and harmon.
2. Rampart Casino.
3. Fiesta Henderson, 777 Lake Meade PKY
4. West Side Cannery.
5. Golden Nuggent, Downtown area
more to come :)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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July 25th, 2011 at 7:48:08 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Yes. If you can't bank Blackjack or Roulette in the casino pit - why Pai Gow? Was one of the issues/requests I had when designing the game.
Well...it is because player banking is a vestige of the old LA card room origins....casinos hate it, it just bogs the game down, and many players are just trying to act suave by banking ("Look at me, I'm so sophisticated by banking!"), yada yada yada.
Most installs simply indicate "You wanna player-bank? - We have a poker room...")
The avoidance of player banking gets applied to all forms of Pai Gow, EZ Pai Gow Doesn't discriminate, the local house does.
From an operational and floor supervision point of view, it's just a mess.

As for location of EZ Pai Gow in the LV area:
1. East Side Cannery, Boulder and harmon.
2. Rampart Casino.
3. Fiesta Henderson, 777 Lake Meade PKY
4. West Side Cannery.
5. Golden Nuggent, Downtown area
more to come :)



Are current licenses pretty much the hold-up? It seems like DEQ has a pretty easy sell here. "Do you think your EZ Bacc table is fast? Yes? Do you see lots of action on the dragon bet? Yes? Great. Do you have PGP? Yes? OK, would you like to spread a table that's faster and includes a new high-edge high-volume side bet? Yes? Ok, sign here..."
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Nareed
Nareed
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July 25th, 2011 at 8:27:25 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Well...it is because player banking is a vestige of the old LA card room origins....casinos hate it, it just bogs the game down, and many players are just trying to act suave by banking ("Look at me, I'm so sophisticated by banking!"), yada yada yada.



You forget the untold thousands (at least) who bank because the Wizard advises to.

What if the rule that states the bank wins copies were removed, would players want to bank then? I'm guessing not.

Quote:

5. Golden Nuggent, Downtown area



I didn't know about that. Congratulations!
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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July 25th, 2011 at 9:53:20 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Are current licenses pretty much the hold-up? It seems like DEQ has a pretty easy sell here. "Do you think your EZ Bacc table is fast? Yes? Do you see lots of action on the dragon bet? Yes? Great. Do you have PGP? Yes? OK, would you like to spread a table that's faster and includes a new high-edge high-volume side bet? Yes? Ok, sign here..."


Actually, and as with any new game, most casinos wait for some other casino to try it out first. That was the hold up. Now that it's rolling, it's doing nicely - Thanks!!!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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July 25th, 2011 at 9:56:39 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You forget the untold thousands (at least) who bank because the Wizard advises to.

What if the rule that states the bank wins copies were removed, would players want to bank then? I'm guessing not.



Mike would advise to do anything that will get you the best possible player advantage while still being legal. All advantage players take that position, and I understand. For myself, I work for the industry - on the operator's side - at Stations. I can see the casino operator's POV.

If copies were always in the house's advantage, few would bank.

But banking is just viewed as an archaic gizmo of the game of Pai gow poker, and unnecessary in the casino pit. I welcome player banked PGP to be offered in as many poker rooms as possible!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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