Gambler accused of dice sliding at Wynn Las Vegas - Sued for return of $700,000
February 2nd, 2012 at 6:19:23 PM
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Quote: P90Well, yes. You mostly only back off $10-$50 recreational players. The better ones don't get caught.
This is not what Dan would have us believe,
however. He's trying to convince us that pit's
are well oiled card counter catching machines,
their nose is to the grindstone, ever vigilant
on tracking the houses money.
Horse puckey and balderdash. Pit's are mostly
made up of incompetent boobs who are putting
in their time and tracking their watches for the
next break. Every casino has a couple good pit
people, but most of them are a waste of space.
Its not their money, they hate where they work
because they're all former dealers, and that they
catch anybody at all is an accident or pure luck.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 2nd, 2012 at 6:21:06 PM
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Quote: P90Then don't use terms that imply legal status.
Look P90, if little Johnny cheated little Billy at Monopoly or Go Fish, I'll use the term there too, and with no cops or lawyers involved at the scene. It's simple:
1. Break the ground rules of a game;
2. For any sort of personal gain or advantage, -
then the definition of cheating was met - regardless of the 9th Circuit Court's opinion and legal definition. Call it what it is.
Quote: P90Theft is a crime. Saying someone is a thief is a serious accusation. In fact, "cheating" at least can refer to infidelity, "theft" is unambiguous.
For that matter, sneaking into a movie theater is theft and crime, and little is done in terms of court appearances or ABP squad cars running about or is done about that either.
Quote: P90Well, yes. You mostly only back off $10-$50 recreational players. The better ones don't get caught.
Yes they do. AND they screw up the game's operating playing rules on everyone else, to boot, as costs get pushed onto all. Line your pockets and feel great about that. Not that we believe you do. You may, what does it matter.
Quote: P90Tell it to the guy who took you like tourist donks for how many $millions by getting a 20% cashback on his losses, at multiple casinos while at that.Quote: PGDThe money is closely tracked, and if there's a problem, it gets addressed.
Won't have to, casinos just pass on costs to all because of him. Be proud of that.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 2nd, 2012 at 6:30:15 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 2nd, 2012 at 6:42:57 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanLook P90, if little Johnny cheated
Don't deflect - you used the term "theft".
And as for cheating at monopoly, this has already been discussed. If monopoly was played with real money, with a reward to the winner, or in a tournament format, cheating there would be very much a crime and would be likely to involve
Quote: PaigowdanWon't have to, casinos just pass on costs to all because of him.
Deflecting again. You said money is closely tracked - this example shows just how closely it is tracked.
I wonder what would be considered "not close" tracking.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
February 2nd, 2012 at 7:27:00 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesWell if I am a cheater when I have the edge, then in my "POV" the casinos are cheats when they have the edge.
Thats why AP's like Grosjean say this:
"casinos are vile places, full of fraud & con's"
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 2nd, 2012 at 7:39:47 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanMany McDonalds and other outlets stopped using individual ketchup and sugar packets, and replaced them with pump nozzel and bulk dispensors, so you can't take extra home. They did this precisely because they saw it as theft that cost them money, and yes, even thought that is legal.
I laughed at this, and perhaps it deserves it's own thread, but I'm gonna hijack for just a few minutes.
Who takes ketchup packets? Ketchup is cheap in the store, especially the off-brand bottles. Same for mustard. But to name just one example, many years ago Taco Bell sauce was only available at the restaurants, so I always took a few extra for my scrambled eggs at home the next morning. I figured it was okay since they're pre-printed with cute sayings like "I'm anxious to meet my friends in your glovebox". Then it became available in bottles in the store and I bought it there instead, but now the bottles are tough to find so I'm back to taking a few extra packets at the restaurants (like today...smoked chipotle, yum). Taco Bell hasn't changed over to pump bottles. Arbys is another example where I would gladly buy its Arby-Q or Horsey sauce in the store if it was available, but it's not. Arbys has the pump bottles, but they don't seem too stingy with the packets when I ask for extra at the counter. Perhaps Taco Bell learned in the years their taco sauce was being bottled that it was losing sales in their restaurants so they're forcing people like me to return for own packet fix.
Sure, restaurants may view Sweet-n-Low theft as forgivable but draw the line at shot glasses and cloth napkins, just like hotels view soaps as gifts to the customers who want them. Hotels expect you to take the shampoo and the pens, but not the TV remotes or the clock-radio. So Dan, when you see the lady stealing Sweet-n-Low packets, do you speak up? Is it your place to speak up? Perhaps they think the loss of 3 cents of S-n-L is worth whatever she spends on coffee and danish, so it's NOT theft as you suggest above, but an acceptable loss to get her in the door. (After all, whoever buys the first cup of coffee pays for the whole pot.) Shame on her for doing it, and it says something about her as a person certainly, but are you gonna get up on your soapbox about it like you do about card counting?
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
February 2nd, 2012 at 7:54:09 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:04:35 PM
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edited
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:13:04 PM
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As an aside, how does James Grosjean pronounce
his last name? I always say Grow-zhan. But Google
says it can also be Grow-zheen or Grow-zha. Does
anybody know how the man himself says it?
his last name? I always say Grow-zhan. But Google
says it can also be Grow-zheen or Grow-zha. Does
anybody know how the man himself says it?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:16:13 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 2nd, 2012 at 9:16:37 PM
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Gross (as in nasty) - Jean (as in Daydream Believer). Complete American inflection; no candy-ass French here.Quote: EvenBobAs an aside, how does James Grosjean pronounce
his last name? I always say Grow-zhan. But Google
says it can also be Grow-zheen or Grow-zha. Does
anybody know how the man himself says it?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
February 2nd, 2012 at 10:30:14 PM
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Quote: zippyboy...So Dan, when you see the lady stealing Sweet-n-Low packets, do you speak up?
No - but I sure as hell think, "Geez, what a hard up xxx..."
A thief for a dime, a thief for a dollar I'd know.
Quote: zippyboyIs it your place to speak up?
No, but if I owned the store, - yeah. And I wouldn't be pissed as much as I'd be dumbfounded by the 5th million act of hard-up-ness. I go off like a Dean Martin Roast...
Quote: zippyboyPerhaps they think the loss of 3 cents of S-n-L is worth whatever she spends on coffee and danish, so it's NOT theft as you suggest above, but an acceptable loss to get her in the door.
Well, shit, knowing what petty thieves the typical customer is, I'd assume they'd either figure it in or switch to more pilfer-proof.
Quote: zippyboy(After all, whoever buys the first cup of coffee pays for the whole pot.) Shame on her for doing it, and it says something about her as a person certainly, but are you gonna get up on your soapbox about it like you do about card counting?
No, - but I'd point out in a New York Minute what petty thieves so many people are, and such people openly display it.
If they'd be such petty thieves for nine packets of sweet and low, forget about what a casino pit has to deal with....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 2nd, 2012 at 10:42:31 PM
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Casinos are frauds for this reason. They give
the impression, on purpose, that they welcome
players of any skill level to take them on, and
that its possible to get ahead and stay ahead.
Ask any slots player if they think they can win
in the long term and 90% of them will say yes.
I'm serious, I've done this for years while waiting
for my wife to get done losing. I even had one
guy get so mad he wanted to meet me in the
parking lot.
Why do people believe this way? Because the
casinos give the impression you can beat them
and keep on beating them. They're frauds. Its
a scam to hide the truth, that all the games are
so cleverly weighted in the houses favor that
unless you yourself have the edge, there isn't
a chance of winning and staying ahead.
Dan knows this is true, how could he not. But
he's a game designer, he's a card carrying
member of the DarkSide. The publics ignorance
fills the casinos coffers on a daily basis.
the impression, on purpose, that they welcome
players of any skill level to take them on, and
that its possible to get ahead and stay ahead.
Ask any slots player if they think they can win
in the long term and 90% of them will say yes.
I'm serious, I've done this for years while waiting
for my wife to get done losing. I even had one
guy get so mad he wanted to meet me in the
parking lot.
Why do people believe this way? Because the
casinos give the impression you can beat them
and keep on beating them. They're frauds. Its
a scam to hide the truth, that all the games are
so cleverly weighted in the houses favor that
unless you yourself have the edge, there isn't
a chance of winning and staying ahead.
Dan knows this is true, how could he not. But
he's a game designer, he's a card carrying
member of the DarkSide. The publics ignorance
fills the casinos coffers on a daily basis.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 3rd, 2012 at 6:31:23 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThe casinos give the impression you can beat them
and keep on beating them. They're frauds. Its
a scam to hide the truth, that all the games are
so cleverly weighted in the houses favor that
unless you yourself have the edge, there isn't
a chance of winning and staying ahead.
Maybe you could give an example or two for each of these opinons.
February 3rd, 2012 at 7:13:54 PM
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Supose you diceslide once and twice but you lose.
The 3rd time you win a lot.
Game commision only go after you when you win.
What if these players are dismissed? Their names remain the same for most the people.
The 3rd time you win a lot.
Game commision only go after you when you win.
What if these players are dismissed? Their names remain the same for most the people.
February 3rd, 2012 at 7:33:23 PM
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Unless you can gamble while blissfully ignorant and blowing spit bubbles, tbe casino will consider you to be a cheater if you win. You are not allowed to use your brain, as it is considered to be a cheating device.
February 3rd, 2012 at 7:45:04 PM
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When the Mob ran Vegas, anybody who left with
more than they came in with was cheating the
casino. Management still feels that way, they
just put in softer, college boy terms now.
I'll make this point again, because I want to.
When the first NV Gaming Commission was
formed, they found every game in every casino
was gaffed. All the card games were rigged.
The roulette wheels were rigged. The dice were
shaved and weighted in craps. Even as late as the
70's, the big poker rooms had cheating dealers
hired by the casino. Today that kind of cheating
is long gone, but the mentality of the casinos
is still the same. Exactly the same.
more than they came in with was cheating the
casino. Management still feels that way, they
just put in softer, college boy terms now.
I'll make this point again, because I want to.
When the first NV Gaming Commission was
formed, they found every game in every casino
was gaffed. All the card games were rigged.
The roulette wheels were rigged. The dice were
shaved and weighted in craps. Even as late as the
70's, the big poker rooms had cheating dealers
hired by the casino. Today that kind of cheating
is long gone, but the mentality of the casinos
is still the same. Exactly the same.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 3rd, 2012 at 8:43:38 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanThe dealer will always get punished or fired. No player gives a shit about this, we know this, and we hear this here loud and clear. The player may not get prosecuted, but can be backed off or denoted for involvement in this ("right to refuse service"), and can get prosecuted if he had taken action to hole card or work in collusion.
I'm not going to enter a discussion with you about the ethicality of various legal plays, but I'm tired of seeing this ridiculous guilt trip in so many of your posts. Sure, there have been cases where dealers were fired for being sloppy, and I know of an instance where a dealer was accused of collusion and lost the ability to work as a dealer in the ensuing legal mess. But cases like this are by far the exception to the rule. There have also been cases of dealers being fired for "being too cold" (ie. losing too much money to players) as a result of a supervisor's ridiculous superstitions. Fortunately, most supervisors are not this unreasonable/stupid; if they are, who would want to work for them in the first place?!
Firing a dealer for accidentally flashing a hole card is the kind of shitty, paranoid, micromanaging behavior that makes casinos bleed money. I've seen hole cards plays get made by the pit, and you know what happens? No "punishment," no "firing," just a simple talk with the dealer to tell them how to correct themselves. The dealer stops flashing, the player leaves or gets backed off, and the casino doesn't have to waste time and money hiring and training a new dealer.
If your car breaks down, you don't send it to a junkyard, you get it fixed. If a dealer develops a bad technique, you correct it. It's not my job to do that, but it is the job of the casino's.
And as far as your complaint of "shitty rules for everyone," maybe you should consider who's at fault here. Card counters and APs make up maybe 0.001% of the casino population (perhaps I'm being too generous). Why do casinos spend billions on game protection and add horrible countermeasures to stop this tiny group? Is it because the world's best card counter can come in and play for an hour with an EV of maybe $3000? The casinos sweat a few grand and here's what we get:
- No mid-shoe entry: this is perhaps the most damaging rule of all for the house. Do you know how much casinos lose when they make it impossible for 99.999% of the population to place a wager until a fresh shoe opens up?
- More decks cut off: card counters may have to work a little harder to make an extra $10 off of this game, but in the meanwhile, you're losing an extra 20% of your live table time to increased shuffling. Speaking of which...
- Absurd, multi-pass shuffles: casinos think that the most secure shuffle is the most insanely complex and time-consuming one. Sure, an expert shuffle tracker (maybe a dozen or two in the world) may take a pass on the game, but what about that extra 4 minutes per shoe that you lose when you could be doing a simple single-pass R&R? I also see ordinary gamblers get annoyed waiting for a long shuffle to finish and actually leave the table.
- CSMs: How much do you suppose casinos pay Shuffle Master to lease one of these? How about 20 of them? Hint: it's a hell of a lot more than they stand to lose to even a very serious team of skilled card counters, given even a modicum of intelligence or awareness in the pit or in surveillance.
So before you start blaming card counters and APs for "shitty rules," maybe you should consider the real problem here. Ignorant casino management is at fault here, not the relatively miniscule threat presented by card counters and other skilled players.
February 3rd, 2012 at 9:06:59 PM
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Quote: LonesomeGamblerCard counters and APs make up maybe 0.001% of the casino population (perhaps I'm being too generous). Why do casinos spend billions on game protection and add horrible countermeasures to stop this tiny group?
Its not hard to understand. Casinos believe they have
the god given right to every dollar that walks thru the
door. They'll gladly spend $10 to save the $1 that an AP
might game them out of. Its called cutting off you nose
to spite your face.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 4th, 2012 at 10:51:14 AM
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Where's Dan, he hasn't posted on this thread
since Thursday.
since Thursday.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 4th, 2012 at 12:17:12 PM
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Quote: EvenBobWhere's Dan, he hasn't posted on this thread
since Thursday.
Probably working on his side job as Newt Gingrich's speech writer !
February 4th, 2012 at 2:03:47 PM
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Quote: EvenBobWhere's Dan, he hasn't posted on this thread since Thursday.
Maybe after 57 pages he was convinced that card counters aren't such bad people after all.
It is well known that changing someone's mind on the Internet is just a matter of enough pages on a thread.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:06:22 PM
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uh oh...the Dragon head snake head awakes....
I was catching up [coughing up?] on some work: shift work, game design projects, correspondance, etc. Had to clear out the inbox.
It wasn't about card counters or APs or anyone one particular catagory being "bad people." It was about "bad or questionable actions." How I simply see it:
Good people think and do good actions.
Good people also do bad actions sometimes, thing they're good actions, and without cost to anyone.
Bad people inflict bad actions on people and don't care about anything except what's in it for them and what they can get away with.
Actions, and justifications for action are what we see and witness in the pit, and for that matter everywhere for everyone.
There are fine lines and opinions all over the place on all subjects, the boundary lines adjusted not by what is right on a neutral POV, but from a what's in it for me from my POV.
I pay my fare, don't pilfer from buisness saying "oh, since they're evil, it's righteous to steal from them," I don't try justify it otherwise or think it's fine, I play by the rules as best I can, that's me. I am an absolute FREAK in a sea of glamblers. I design games that they choose to play, and they don't try to cheat them, they just want to get a Royal or a 10-high Pai Gow on them.
People can disagree with me and despise me. I think of the scene in TEAM AMERICA, where Kim Jong-Il busts out into song, singing while holding a glass of Chivas Regal on the rocks: "It not easy being me.....I'm so roan-rie....nobody rub me.....people want to kirr me...."
If they AP on a game I designed, a gun was involved....
I was catching up [coughing up?] on some work: shift work, game design projects, correspondance, etc. Had to clear out the inbox.
It wasn't about card counters or APs or anyone one particular catagory being "bad people." It was about "bad or questionable actions." How I simply see it:
Good people think and do good actions.
Good people also do bad actions sometimes, thing they're good actions, and without cost to anyone.
Bad people inflict bad actions on people and don't care about anything except what's in it for them and what they can get away with.
Actions, and justifications for action are what we see and witness in the pit, and for that matter everywhere for everyone.
There are fine lines and opinions all over the place on all subjects, the boundary lines adjusted not by what is right on a neutral POV, but from a what's in it for me from my POV.
I pay my fare, don't pilfer from buisness saying "oh, since they're evil, it's righteous to steal from them," I don't try justify it otherwise or think it's fine, I play by the rules as best I can, that's me. I am an absolute FREAK in a sea of glamblers. I design games that they choose to play, and they don't try to cheat them, they just want to get a Royal or a 10-high Pai Gow on them.
People can disagree with me and despise me. I think of the scene in TEAM AMERICA, where Kim Jong-Il busts out into song, singing while holding a glass of Chivas Regal on the rocks: "It not easy being me.....I'm so roan-rie....nobody rub me.....people want to kirr me...."
If they AP on a game I designed, a gun was involved....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 4th, 2012 at 5:34:11 PM
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Dan this is from another thread. Do you see
anything wrong with this behavior from the
casino?
Did you ever think that casinos sweat the money, and yes they will ban you if you are winning every time you go into them. I only play craps, and was banned from a couple casinos and the dice taking off me numerous times...I've even seen one don't player get banned from playing, only because he was winning, and was way to greedy. They told him that he could no longer play craps in that casino, here was a guy that never picked up the dice...There are many casinos in Vegas that will take the dice off you if you are setting the dice, and winning...If you are in the casinos everyday you see all kinds of stupid things the casino will do when somebody is winning, to try to stop them from winning... There are suits that think that the money anybody is winning is their money, and they will do anything they can to stop a roll from happening, even banning the player or taking the dice off them!
anything wrong with this behavior from the
casino?
Did you ever think that casinos sweat the money, and yes they will ban you if you are winning every time you go into them. I only play craps, and was banned from a couple casinos and the dice taking off me numerous times...I've even seen one don't player get banned from playing, only because he was winning, and was way to greedy. They told him that he could no longer play craps in that casino, here was a guy that never picked up the dice...There are many casinos in Vegas that will take the dice off you if you are setting the dice, and winning...If you are in the casinos everyday you see all kinds of stupid things the casino will do when somebody is winning, to try to stop them from winning... There are suits that think that the money anybody is winning is their money, and they will do anything they can to stop a roll from happening, even banning the player or taking the dice off them!
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 4th, 2012 at 5:36:16 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanPeople can disagree with me and despise me.
We don't despise you, Dan. We despise that 300
pound Somoan guy in the Wiz video on Pai Gow.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 5th, 2012 at 12:19:18 AM
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Quote: EvenBobDan this is from another thread. Do you see
anything wrong with this behavior from the
casino?
Did you ever think that casinos sweat the money, and yes they will ban you if you are winning every time you go into them. I only play craps, and was banned from a couple casinos and the dice taking off me numerous times...I've even seen one don't player get banned from playing, only because he was winning, and was way to greedy. They told him that he could no longer play craps in that casino, here was a guy that never picked up the dice...There are many casinos in Vegas that will take the dice off you if you are setting the dice, and winning...If you are in the casinos everyday you see all kinds of stupid things the casino will do when somebody is winning, to try to stop them from winning... There are suits that think that the money anybody is winning is their money, and they will do anything they can to stop a roll from happening, even banning the player or taking the dice off them!
Yes, I do agree, Bob.
I wouldn't ban a dice setter if he's hitting both dice off of the back wall, or a don't bettor who never ever touched the dice, and that's a crime too, on the part of the casino, as far as I'm concerned. (oh! that WORD! I FEEL FAINT!....I dropped my pearls.....) When casino execs and floor supervisors see a winner on a clean game, their only response should be to trust that the math allows for proper winners and variance, and that they'll see these good customers again by saluting these clean winners.
There are jerks and devils on both sides of the table, as well as on both sides of the counter, the altar, the ticket line, etc....
Quote: EvenBobWe don't despise you, Dan. We despise that 300
pound Somoan guy in the Wiz video on Pai Gow.
Oh. That's Mr. Fukuyami Hashimoto, - and a great guy....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 5th, 2012 at 5:31:17 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanWhen casino execs and floor supervisors see a winner on a clean game, their only response should be to trust that the math allows for proper winners and variance, q]
But how many suits really understand the math? I've many
conversations with the pit over the years and for every
informed suit, 10 are clueless. They can't tell me the HE
for roulette or BJ, they don't know what variance means,
they never heard of a Martingale. They know about doubling
up, they don't know it has a name. And they sure as hell
don't know how the math works in the casinos favor. They
know that it does, not how it does. They know the minimum
they need to know for their jobs and have no interest beyond
that."It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 5th, 2012 at 5:49:46 PM
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The suits on the floor often stay on the floor, as they are frequently unworthy of being promoted up into the corporate offices.
We see both morons and fine people in every field and discipline.
It's best to make sure that our own doctors and lawyers are class-A, than to worry about some suit on the floor when you're a player. That's more like worrying about some box office clerk when buying a show ticket, - not a major life event, as opposed to a botched lawsuit or brain surgery operation.
If you're peeved about some floorman, write a letter to the casino operator describing the situation and your concerns, and move on in life.
We see both morons and fine people in every field and discipline.
It's best to make sure that our own doctors and lawyers are class-A, than to worry about some suit on the floor when you're a player. That's more like worrying about some box office clerk when buying a show ticket, - not a major life event, as opposed to a botched lawsuit or brain surgery operation.
If you're peeved about some floorman, write a letter to the casino operator describing the situation and your concerns, and move on in life.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 5th, 2012 at 9:25:12 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanIf you're peeved about some floorman, q]
I'm not peeved, Dan. My point was, how can you expect the best
out of a crew that doesn't even understand the games they
supervise. Just because you're over qualified for your job, I
think you kid yourself into thinking you're surrounded be the best
and the brightest. Not hardly."It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 5th, 2012 at 10:05:15 PM
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In the Vegas market area, the vast majority of floormen are very experienced, - and are very fine and accurate. With rare exceptions, You will basically see just about NO ONE on the floor who's too inexperienced. I've seen only one really bad floorman, and he was sh]tcanned ages ago.
In newer markets, it's more likely to be a mixed bag of quality in the pit crew.
In newer markets, it's more likely to be a mixed bag of quality in the pit crew.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 6th, 2012 at 1:37:42 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanIn the Vegas market area, the vast majority of floormen are very experienced, - .
Just because they come in every day for 15 years doesn't
mean they know what they're doing. I've talked to dozens
and dozens of pit Vegas suits over the years who had no idea what
the HE is on the games they oversee. Or much of anything else
in the math world. Ask them yourself and you'll see.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 6th, 2012 at 3:09:09 AM
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It is not the floorman's job to become embroiled in disputes about house edge or batting averages of baseball players. He watches. He watches players, dealers and their interactions, he authorizes comps, he watches, he listens, he rules on mistakes.
February 6th, 2012 at 6:55:25 AM
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This is a good point from Fleastiff. Expecting this from floormen would be like asking Walmart clerks to recite nutritional information on each and every food product, safety info on each and every electrical product, and usage info on automotive and camping products, when they're listed on the packages.
Should rack cards of games include house edge and element of risk, like they would understand it? Or gambler's anonymous contact info?
Or have cigarette-pack like warning labels? ("Warning: getting smashed and blowing your rent money might be detrimental to your marriage and financial well-being...")
Should rack cards of games include house edge and element of risk, like they would understand it? Or gambler's anonymous contact info?
Or have cigarette-pack like warning labels? ("Warning: getting smashed and blowing your rent money might be detrimental to your marriage and financial well-being...")
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 6th, 2012 at 9:09:46 AM
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Perhaps a sign above the BJ table stating " Please put your brain in nuetral. No thinking allowed "
February 6th, 2012 at 9:12:04 AM
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Fleastiff: +1
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
February 6th, 2012 at 9:55:36 AM
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Well said. I don't think that a lack of deep understanding of the intricacies of game statistics precludes a boss from being "experienced." These are not game designers or theoreticians; their job is to watch and manage the crew to ensure that things run smoothly. In the olden days (before my time), bosses were also a big part of the customer service element. If a house wanted your action, a boss would often introduce himself, give you a business card, authorize some comps, etc. In Vegas there are still a lot of these old timers around, and while they may not be able to recite a side bet's house edge, or the difference in expectation between RSA and NoRSA, they can still run a pit better than a lot of the sweat-drenched, action-fearing scowlers that can be found in casinos across the land.Quote: PaigowdanThis is a good point from Fleastiff. Expecting this from floormen would be like asking Walmart clerks to recite nutritional information on each and every food product, safety info on each and every electrical product, and usage info on automotive and camping products, when they're listed on the packages.
February 6th, 2012 at 10:47:17 AM
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Quote: buzzpaffPerhaps a sign above the BJ table stating " Please put your brain in nuetral. No thinking allowed "
Then everyone must be a dummy in order to have fun, as such a sign belongs everywhere: you have to put your brain into a "suspension of disbelief" to do anything recreational, from movies, to reading fiction, sports, to gambling, to dining, to sex:
1. Movies: paying money to watch light bulbs force light through reels of plastic, to produce flickering images. Now the flickering images are electronically and digitally produced.
2. Dining out: oh, the fat and the calories - better go to the farmer's organic market instead, if you're using your head.
3. Sports: watching millionaires chase a ball in a big green field.
4. Sex: pistons moving in cylnders, - like an automotive engine. How exciting.
5. Reading fiction: not true stories, so why bother?
oh, and add:
6. To have fun, play by the rules, because it can stop you from playing and having fun. Now that's using your brain from square one, not getting disbarred at playing in the first place.
Perhaps there should be a sign in the delivery room: "put your brain in neutral, as you are entering the world. Abandon all hope regardless."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 6th, 2012 at 11:24:33 AM
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Quote: Paigowdan4. Sex: pistons moving in cylnders, - like an automotive engine. How exciting.
Huh? I understand where you're going with the rest of these, taking things to a ridiculous conclusion. But I don't understand this one at all. It doesn't matter how hard I engage my brain during sex, pretty sure I'm still going to enjoy it! Those pistons have a lot of nerve endings...
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 6th, 2012 at 11:34:38 AM
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To have fun, play by the rules, because it can stop you from playing and having fun. Now that's using your brain from square one, not getting disbarred at playing in the first place.
But if I THINK I will be cheating as you have stated so many times before !!
But if I THINK I will be cheating as you have stated so many times before !!
February 6th, 2012 at 11:35:54 AM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsHuh? I understand where you're going with the rest of these, taking things to a ridiculous conclusion. But I don't understand this one at all. It doesn't matter how hard I engage my brain during sex, pretty sure I'm still going to enjoy it! Those pistons have a lot of nerve endings...
My point is that doing ANY thing of a recreational, non-productive, or of a play nature requries:
1. checking your brain to some or any degree,
2. and doing anything that openly asks for trouble during play - to spoil the fun during the fun times - is clearly not using your brain. Breaking the house rules on a card game to get backed off or 86-ed clearly falls into the "not smart" catagory, and from people professing to be using their brains at it.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
February 6th, 2012 at 11:43:15 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 6th, 2012 at 11:45:26 AM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesIt doesnt matter what anyone else thinks. When I bet money, I am trying to WIN money. This bullshyte about gambling being entertainment is absolute crap!
Chill. Those losers allow you to win, you know !
February 6th, 2012 at 11:55:33 AM
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Quote: Paigowdan6. To have fun, play by the rules, because it can stop you from playing and having fun.
Like said before, what about people who play to win and don't have fun if they know they are being sucked out?
Advantage play still follows at least the official rules, and as for things the casino doesn't like - if you didn't have fun doing what it likes, you aren't risking anything.
Quote: PaigowdanMy point is that doing ANY thing of a recreational, non-productive, or of a play nature requries:
1. checking your brain to some or any degree,
Really?
Some of the things I enjoy, and which are clearly recreational, non-productive and of a play nature include:
Poker - turn your brain off and say goodbye to your stack.
Target shooting - turn your brain off and make the blind laugh.
Competitive driving - turn your brain off and they'll be scraping it off.
That's enough incentive to keep my brain on.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
February 6th, 2012 at 12:44:34 PM
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Quote: P90
Some of the things I enjoy, and which are clearly recreational, non-productive and of a play nature include:
Poker - turn your brain off and say goodbye to your stack.
Target shooting - turn your brain off and make the blind laugh.
Competitive driving - turn your brain off and they'll be scraping it off.
That's enough incentive to keep my brain on.
++ P90.
When I play games, I use my brain. A lot. And I'm not doing anything there that will end up with me dead or broke.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
February 6th, 2012 at 12:50:25 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 6th, 2012 at 6:06:27 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesIt doesnt matter what anyone else thinks. When I bet money, I am trying to WIN money. This bullshyte about gambling being entertainment is absolute crap!
Thats where the problem in this discussion
lies. Every player who enters the casino is
there to win. If you're there to lose, you have
a screw lose. Most people don't know they have
no chance of staying ahead of the casino, and
thats fine with management. The few of us
that do know the truth are tolerated by the
casino until we start winning. Dan's trying to
dumb us down into believing winning is wrong
and beating the casino at their own game is
a crime. He wants us to bend over and take the
whacks with the big paddle and cry out 'Thank
you sir, may I have another?' He wants us to
lose and like it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 6th, 2012 at 6:16:21 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
February 6th, 2012 at 6:32:50 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesCan't change my mind.
Not even after 60 pages?
February 6th, 2012 at 6:40:12 PM
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I think kp is worried, all he ever talks
about is somebody changing his mind.
about is somebody changing his mind.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
February 6th, 2012 at 6:44:13 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
