Blackjack game with 0.75% player advantage
Quote: AxelWolfWonderful they will only get to cheat less people.
The rapists, molesters and thugs will move around and do exactly the same things. Your Idea is nice to think about, but it's not practical and wont work.
We need laws cops and punishment.
Sure we need cops and punishment, but we don't need them to be socialized. These things can be provided for in the free market. Socialism is always inferior to freedom.
Assuming the game is fair, pay somebody to play for you (maybe in India) at $5-$10 or whatever a good approximation of Kelly betting is. Even at $5/hand and 400 hands an hour, that is still a $14 hourly. Do you think the casino would let you do this?Quote: mustangsally
so, last question (given the casino games are honest)
IF you really wanted to take money (win) playing the games .6%, .71% and .75% players edge
how would you go about that and with a players edge, when would you stop playing?
(flat betting is a good answer)
Alternatively, pool a bunch of players together and share a bankroll and bet big. Some will bust out, some will win, but statistically you should finish ahead.
The problem with that is that EVERYBODY LOST on this game.
Quote: teddysBy the way, a Pennsylvania number called me up today and said they were from Mission2Game. It was definitely a stooge number, or whatever they call it, since the guy was foreign. He asked me some security questions and then requested I send in the credit card documents. I have no balance or winnings at the casino currently.
WHAAAAA!!!!!!
Quote: rudeboyoiFraud isn't a crime. It's just being a jerk to other people. Hence the shunning. Without the police they can't hold onto this false belief and will be more prepared to defend themselves and when criminals find out that people are more willing to defend themselves they will be less likely to commit crimes against others.
How is fraud not a crime? I take your wallet I'm a thief and a criminal I offer to sell you something take your money and don't give you anything and I'm a jerk but not a criminal. That makes absolutely no sense. I mean even with loose interpretations saying that laws should only exist to prevent harm to others fraud would be a crime. I mean I could use fraud and coercion to commit multiple crimes like depriving people of property, having intercourse, or any number of other things but because I talked it rather then used a weapon I'm just a jerk rather then a criminal?
Also people being willing to defend themselves doesn't mean crimes will go down it could also be the case crimes escalate. Say I really need money and was prepared to commit burglary for it. The standard thing would simply be I demand money at gunpoint and get it because the person doesn't defend themselves and I didn't think they would. With the change there is the possibility I still need the money but now I fear the person might try to defend themselves and injure me so I shoot him and just take his wallet. You've prevented a standard mugging and turned it into a homicide. The way to stop crime isn't to give everyone guns or to be tough on crime nonsense it is to try and address the root causes of crime.
with a $10k bankroll, one could make $46 flat bets to start with KellyQuote: teddysAssuming the game is fair, pay somebody to play for you (maybe in India) at $5-$10 or whatever a good approximation of Kelly betting is. Even at $5/hand and 400 hands an hour, that is still a $14 hourly.
.6%HE,SD=1.14
MAYbe not foreverQuote: teddysDo you think the casino would let you do this?
even if I owned the casino, i would put a stop to it
i bet even Meyer Lansky (known for his honest games) would stop any bleeding, so to speak
what kind of bankroll is that again?Quote: teddysAlternatively, pool a bunch of players together and share a bankroll and bet big.
a small one?
or just A bankroll
that has proved not to work out very well now has it
not everybody was down all the time eitherQuote: teddysThe problem with that is that EVERYBODY LOST on this game.
some up and down = variance
BBB now was an over-bettor
of course she about doubled her start bank and then gave it all back
how about that ruin from the high point?
and
and
Oh oh
you know you have a history of over-bet thy bankroll too (2, or 1+1 or 0+2)
a no-no by Ed Thorp standards
i still like, no
i now love that man!
MAYbe he goes to the Angels game when they get back into town
hint hint
Quote: TwirdmanHow is fraud not a crime? I take your wallet I'm a thief and a criminal I offer to sell you something take your money and don't give you anything and I'm a jerk but not a criminal. That makes absolutely no sense. I mean even with loose interpretations saying that laws should only exist to prevent harm to others fraud would be a crime. I mean I could use fraud and coercion to commit multiple crimes like depriving people of property, having intercourse, or any number of other things but because I talked it rather then used a weapon I'm just a jerk rather then a criminal?
Also people being willing to defend themselves doesn't mean crimes will go down it could also be the case crimes escalate. Say I really need money and was prepared to commit burglary for it. The standard thing would simply be I demand money at gunpoint and get it because the person doesn't defend themselves and I didn't think they would. With the change there is the possibility I still need the money but now I fear the person might try to defend themselves and injure me so I shoot him and just take his wallet. You've prevented a standard mugging and turned it into a homicide. The way to stop crime isn't to give everyone guns or to be tough on crime nonsense it is to try and address the root causes of crime.
Fraud is voluntary so it's not a crime. If you're defrauded you got duped. That's it. You took a risk and it didn't pay off.
The state creates criminals out of people where no crime was ever comitted. Think about dealing drugs. Prostitution. Gambling. Some busy body decided they didn't like these things and decided to make a criminal out of someone who engaged in them.
There's very few actual crimes that can be comitted. Stuff like assault, rape, theft, murder. Just about everything else that's illegal isn't an actual crime just something someone decided they didn't like.
MAYbe the thread's rating has something to do with thatQuote: rudeboyoiAnyways this thread is getting off track
why does it have to be "pretty important"Quote: rudeboyoiand is actually pretty important.
important is important all by itself, i say
or were you taught NOT (knot) to say ugly important
like this oneQuote: rudeboyoiAny further questions put in the voluntaryism containment thread.
How is it possible to play with a calculated (and simulated) player's advantage and still lose your bankroll? (not your shirt)
how IS that working out for you?
thanks
honesty is the best policy
not all follow that policy
"tea time"
Mully
Again that's not true I brought up a few situations in the other thread involving willing participants but is a horrible despicable crime.Quote: rudeboyoiFraud is voluntary so it's not a crime. If you're defrauded you got duped. That's it. You took a risk and it didn't pay off.
The state creates criminals out of people where no crime was ever comitted. Think about dealing drugs. Prostitution. Gambling. Some busy body decided they didn't like these things and decided to make a criminal out of someone who engaged in them.
There's very few actual crimes that can be comitted. Stuff like assault, rape, theft, murder. Just about everything else that's illegal isn't an actual crime just something someone decided they didn't like.
Your child can be a willing participant to be sold into the sex trade.
Someone with AIDS could purposely infect others.
Someone could fraudulently sell you faulty unsafe equipment that's guaranteed to cause you death.
A doctor tells all of his patients to buy his knowingly bogus wonder drug for a profit and forgo life saving treatment or drugs.
There's probably many instances where fraud could be used to cause great harm where everyone is a willing participant.
Quote: AxelWolfAgain that's not true I brought up a few situations in the other thread involving willing participants but is a horrible despicable crime.
Your child can be a willing participant to be sold into the sex trade.
Someone with AIDS could purposely infect others.
Someone could fraudulently sell you faulty unsafe equipment that's guaranteed to cause you death.
A doctor tells all of his patients to buy his knowingly bogus wonder drug for a profit and forgo life saving treatment or drugs.
There's probably many instances where fraud could be used to cause great harm where everyone is a willing participant.
The state does not stop any of this better than free people acting in their own self interest. Likewise, these things all still happen despite the fact that the state exists.
Have you ever heard of a program called Social Security? The state is the biggest perpetrator of fraud in the history of man. Someone who opposes fraud should oppose the existence of the state.
Quote: RomesFinally won 1 double up (1 out of 15, on a 50% 'gamble)... It pays 1-1 even though it says it pays 2-1. False advertising.
What do u mean double up and pay 2-1 ??
re-double ?
What does the above quoted statement mean? This is from the first post in this thread.
Anyway, I have no idea WTF he said on the phone. I just kinda smiled and nodded when he was talking -- although in after-thought, that probably didn't help. I just said I had to go, he said something that I imagine sounded like "good call, come again", but I really don't know. It sounded very third-world'ish on his end of the line....like there's a big pack of 'em on their headsets & microphones [without the fuzzy thing to get rid of all the extra sound, too!] -- calling up their customers.
You'd think, if you're going to hire someone to talk on the phone (to English-speakers) -- you'd want to hire people whom you can CLEARLY UNDERSTAND IN ENGLISH. They have to only do ONE F***** THING and that's TALK ON THE PHONE. How can a basic requirement to get that job not be "Speak clear English"?
Quote: MaxPen"If you're interested in playing this game please click through this link and you will enjoy complete Wizard protection. "
What does the above quoted statement mean? This is from the first post in this thread.
we are still waiting to find out what it means in the thread about "Las Vegas USA" online casino stiffing member Teddys. Pretty long wait now.
Quote: mustangsallymany others have claimed that also
like Dr. Thorp (how about you coming to Newport Beach, CA and interviewing him. I bet $2.50 he would like that.
I'd be honored to. We had a short chat at the Blackjack Ball before I got banned from it. Very nice guy. Not what I was expecting at all.
Quote:so, last question (given the casino games are honest)
IF you really wanted to take money (win) playing the games .6%, .71% and .75% players edge
how would you go about that and with a players edge, when would you stop playing?
(flat betting is a good answer)
the drift is up, i do know that part
do not be shy
and have fun!
Hmmm. If I trusted the game and there was no maximum bet, of course I would would bet Kelly. If you're not sure about the game, then flat betting is the way to go. It keeps the math simple in calculating how "unlucky" you actually were.
I'm thinking about doing the third 555% bonus, just to gather more data.
They are requesting "security documentation" from me before they will send it.
They also called me twice yesterday (from the same spoofed PA number) requesting security documentation.
They really want this documentation.
mission2game/ Surrender BJ :
1. lose both 2 bets , DD/Sp to natural ?
2. 44 vs 5,6 --- split rather than hit ??
i got a splitted AA, both hit to 21, house autopay to me without hitting upcard 5 !!!
if splitted A+10 get autopay, so AA vs A, hit or sp ?
Quote: P99http://res.mission2game.com/lobby/game-select.php#
mission2game/ Surrender BJ :
1. lose both 2 bets , DD/Sp to natural ?
2. 44 vs 5,6 --- split rather than hit ??
i got a splitted AA, both hit to 21, house autopay to me without hitting upcard 5 !!!
if splitted A+10 get autopay, so AA vs A, hit or sp ?
1) It's split, not splitted.
2) Correct play is pretty irrelevant since it's obvious the game is gaffed, assuming the reported results are true.
thanks
what is the requirement to get the bonus from $200 to $1574 ??
Quote: P99Bought in for 200. Used the 777 bonus for a balance of $1754. [quoted]
what is the requirement to get the bonus from $200 to $1574 ??
You're nuts. But you have to activate the bonus before you start playing. Go to the promotions tab and click on the promotion you want to redeem. Or chat with the representative who will activate it for you.
PI 3 days (-: I was thinking the same thing. But hey it's only $200 and who knows.Quote: teddysQuote: P99Bought in for 200. Used the 777 bonus for a balance of $1754. [quoted]
what is the requirement to get the bonus from $200 to $1574 ??
You're nuts. But you have to activate the bonus before you start playing. Go to the promotions tab and click on the promotion you want to redeem. Or chat with the representative who will activate it for you.
I'm curious what's up with all of this. I though the WOV owners were closely watching. No proof of gaffed BJ aside the slots were clearly cheating according to their own game rules. Not to mention lost bets/ bonuses during casino crashings. Example someone hits a sloot bonus but really doesn't know it. Casino crashes they don't know to complain.
I might do my own test of the BJ game. I think I have/had the most money at stake. $1,300.
Online gambling is fun, kids! Tell your friends!!
Quote: WizardI think our policy is we are not going to advertise them but we don't have enough for a blacklisting.
So what does that mean for our "Wizard Protection?"
With absolutely no one winning, and all of the shady things have been discussed (including a call a few days ago while we were all at the downtown grand - asking me why I haven't played more and claiming that I've been unlucky and surely my luck will change right around the corner, so I should play more).
Even in your own video, sure you had a 1.something% chance of having that happen, but that's everyone's flat bet experience, and many were doing much less than $50. My average bet was $15, as well as my buddy whom did the promotion as well. I've got to figure your $50 average bet and 1.some% chance of busting as you did would result in our chance of busting out with a $15 average bet being far less than 1%... then to have that happen multiple times?
To me there's been enough evidence of something "very rare" (-8 SD, etc) happening MORE than once in just our little thread. Sure, not everyone is down 8 SD, but everyone is in fact down, and most are more than 2 SD out. So what are the odds of all of us being down like that? Answer: Enough to blacklist.
Quote: sabreBeyond everything Romes said, considering A2345 to not be a straight in video poker should be grounds for immediate blacklisting.
Seconded
Quote: sabreBeyond everything Romes said, considering A2345 to not be a straight in video poker should be grounds for immediate blacklisting.
In my opinion, that was done more out of the ignorance of poker rules than an attempt to cheat. However, this combined with other things, like the non-paying wild, and "rule 20," perhaps there is enough. It is up to my boss but I'll lay out the case to him.
that is a good oneQuote: RomesSo what does that mean for our "Wizard Protection?"
players were winningQuote: RomesWith absolutely no one winning, and all of the shady things have been discussed
many did (claim) to double their starting bankroll but kept over-betting their bankroll, in my opinion
based from Alan K and Don S math stuff
but
they must be guilty
"Hang them HIGH"
no trial needed
still so funny
and where is the help from the Wizard?
did he mention to anyone how much to bet to a certain Ror (i bet he wants to beat that game!)
in other words
how to beat the game (if it is honest)
Ah, come on
no trial needed
"Hang them HIGHer!"
Yahoo!
entertainment value
PRICELESS!
i paid myself $200
Sally
Quote: WizardIn my opinion, that was done more out of the ignorance of poker rules than an attempt to cheat.
Even if you granted them ignorance, my position still stands. Would you feel the same if you were dealt AKJTQs and they said "Royals have to be sequential, that's just a flush."?
iTech Labs.Quote: WizardI think our policy is we are not going to advertise them but we don't have enough for a blacklisting.
RNG Testing & Certification
Game Output Audits
Games Testing & Certification
Platform Testing & Certification
Sports Betting Testing & Certification
Pari-mutuel Testing & Certification
Multi-lingual Testing
Software Provider Services
Gaming Regulatory Service
Technical Due Dilige
Can you explain more details about what they do and how it works? Do they just test once and done and not care after the fact?
Shouldn't LCB contact them with the information here?
I can't imagine iTech Labs would like their seal on this casino without further testing given the current problems.
Regarding, iTech labs, I don't know what they do. That they would certify M2G doesn't speak well of them.
I would like to say that I have independently confirmed the problem of wilds sometimes not counting. Note my game:
The image above shows the Chia Pet is wild.
The image above shows three of the blonde girl pays 30.
Note the configuration of payline 13 in the image above.
Finally, note the three blonde girls on line 13, counting the Chia Pet on reel 1. That should have won 30 cents. Also note that the win field is blank.
Quote: WizardIn my opinion, that was done more out of the ignorance of poker rules than an attempt to cheat. However, this combined with other things, like the non-paying wild, and "rule 20," perhaps there is enough. It is up to my boss but I'll lay out the case to him.
Not trying to be a pain in the xxx, but in this day and age, if you are smart enough to run an online casino, (advertising, IT, legal issues etc), then "ignorance" can't be used as an excuse.
Did the casino ever comment or answer any questions from LBC?Quote: WizardSoft Magic Dice, the software provider for Mission2Game, as well as Mission2Game itself have been added to the blacklist. The details can be found in the Soft Magic Dice warning/Mission2Game.
I'm wondering if they will hold back LBC 's affiliate money invoking their blackmail clause.
The sad part is if you hadn't found a blackjack game with 0.75% player advantage and mentioned it no one with any persistence or anyone halfway believable would've experimented. They would've gone on fleecing players for a long time. This is obvious because someone complained about the improper pays and crash stealing problem on the LBC player reviews a few months ago.
They are on WOO Blacklist.... what about LBC? Actually I can't find a LBC Blacklist. This casino is still listed on LBC with LBC promotion codes, with this
Conclusion
Mission2Game is a great choice for the US player who otherwise is restricted. The Welcome Bonuses have reasonable wagering requirements that can be realistically met.
There's various comments but some of the comments are in colorful chat boxes that actually appear to be cheerful with light warm colors that seem to be praising them. Almost like something you would see on a movie rental cover or a website with various testimonials.
Comments like "I agree 100% I signed up with them few months ago maybe more, they had a promo of…
I would hope a red warning sign with a big black skull and crossbones would prominently be displayed at the top of the page.
I'm still certain the Red/black 50/50 double up is noticeably gaffed.
If this is accurate the owners are promoting on one site and blacklisting on their other site.
Quote: WizardSoft Magic Dice, the software provider for Mission2Game, as well as Mission2Game itself have been added to the blacklist. The details can be found in the Soft Magic Dice warning/Mission2Game.
Mike,
Will you be revisiting your review. as it stands it looks quite positive
Quote:Conclusion
Upon looking at Soft Magic Dice’s software, I have found the company’s Blackjack games to be among the best I have seen offered by any internet casino, and the other games seem to fall in line with what you would expect in terms of rules and house edge.
I also note that you still send traffic to them through affiliate links.
Surely we will get more tales of woe about this outfit. What happened to the poster who observed that there was no working cashout page?
I had some really strange results from them a few years ago. So I started searching. It lead me to WOO.Quote: rainmanWizard has Winaday listed on WoO blacklist, LCB, if its the same Winaday has them listed #7 in the top seven casinos list?
If this is accurate the owners are promoting on one site and blacklisting on their other site.
I have mentioned it before I believe they "changed something"
Whoa! I have to say I'm surprised and impressed. Of course, I agree with you 100%. I was planning to do a test maybe next Wednesday. But now I'm not going to bother.Quote: WizardSoft Magic Dice, the software provider for Mission2Game, as well as Mission2Game itself have been added to the blacklist. The details can be found in the Soft Magic Dice warning/Mission2Game.
I'm looking at my credit card statements. M2G charged me about $205-$207 for every $200 deposit I made. Why the *EFF* do online casinos do this? It just makes consumers confused. At least say there is a fee for processing or something, don't just overcharge random amounts. (No, it's not an international transaction fee. My card doesn't charge those.)
Quote: WizardSoft Magic Dice, the software provider for Mission2Game, as well as Mission2Game itself have been added to the blacklist. The details can be found in the Soft Magic Dice warning/Mission2Game.
So I suppose I'll ask the tough question then... The original post said to use the affiliate link for the Wizards protection. Well, a bunch of us did exactly that and were ripped off by this now blacklisted site. So what comes of it for us?
Quote: RomesSo I suppose I'll ask the tough question then... The original post said to use the affiliate link for the Wizards protection. Well, a bunch of us did exactly that and were ripped off by this now blacklisted site. So what comes of it for us?
Your question and request are duly noted. This story is still far from finished so please be patient.
Quote: WizardYour question and request are duly noted. This story is still far from finished so please be patient.
Understood, and thanks for the quick response.
Quote: thecesspitSure, but the winners have also got to pay back their winnings ;)
Well that's easy to do... I don't think anyone won =P.
Quote: CLedThose of you that have played there and are posting about it might want be sure that you are aware of this term in the casino's T&Cs section:
Quote:20. If you are found to be cheating or attempting to defraud the Game, or if you make untrue and/or malicious comments with regard to the Company's operation, the Company reserves the right to publicize your actions together with your identity and e-mail address, as well as to circulate this information to other casinos, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies.
Some of you are going to be identifiable due to the details posted here of your play sessions. The phrase "malicious comments" is open to wide interpretation and the casino's discretion. Its obviously a scummy term from an unprofessional outfit but you should be cautious anyway, especially if it turns out that the Wizard finds conclusive proof that these guys are cheating.
There are so many things about T&C#20 that are empty posturing and/or illegal that it is hard to know where to begin.
- The Company may indeed "reserve the right" to publicize anything they want including our actions -but if they publicize our identities and e-mail addresses for making untrue or malicious comments, they will set themselves up for a potential lawsuit.
- If you make a malicious comment about this Company, are we really supposed to be concerned that they will circulate the information to "Banks and Credit Card companies?" Why would a bank be alarmed about the fact that you have a low opinion of "the Company?" This is an empty and meaningless threat.
- No company in their right mind would circulate the malicious comments that are made about them to everyone in the gambling and financial business. the only conceivable outcome would be that the recipients read all the malicious comments and think poorly of the Company. The Company will do exactly the opposite -they will call no attention to your malicious comments. LOL
This term#20 is so ridiculous and juvenile that it is an indicator that this gambling website is managed by lightweights rather than by business professionals.
Are you saying it's possible we may get a refund?Quote: WizardYour question and request are duly noted. This story is still far from finished so please be patient.
I was seriously thinking of disputing the charges however I used a debit card and that's more difficult than a CC.
Its possible the only way a debit card can be refunded is if you didn't authorize the charge.
Obviously I really don't want to hassle for $200
Quote: AxelWolfAre you saying it's possible we may get a refund?
I was seriously thinking of disputing the charges however I used a debit card and that's more difficult than a CC.
Its possible the only way a debit card can be refunded is if you didn't authorize the charge.
Obviously I really don't want to hassle for $200
Let me say that I feel somewhat to blame. I would not do the chargeback, even if you feel it is justified. Rule 20 or not, chargebacks are the one thing the casinos hate most about the players and they have been known to share lists of players who have done them. If you want to keep a good reputation as an online player, I would never do one, especially over just $200.
for what exactly?Quote: WizardLet me say that I feel somewhat to blame. <snip>
me gaining 2 pounds this week?
no, i think not
did you tell your wife about this?
what did you tell your wife?
(remember Venus and Mars)
Men are From ?, Women are From ?
?=6
it has been entertaining
to say the least (at least one 2)
