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stabworld
stabworld
Joined: Mar 10, 2014
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March 15th, 2014 at 9:48:02 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Do you really gamble for a living? Based on some of the things you've said, it doesn't sound like it (although I could be wrong, of course).



I play poker for a living.. I don't consider it gambling.. As I am not throwing a casino chip down on a number and hoping it hits.. I play a strategic based game which pays dividends long term if I am better skilled than the majority of my oppenents..
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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March 15th, 2014 at 12:02:30 PM permalink
Quote: stabworld

Well I am trying to accomplish - the pit not recording my wins - as this will be a tell tell sign over time that I am counting. Many Hours of play combined with a win rate is indicative of counting.



The term is ratholing. Simply putting chips in your pocket doesn't always fit the definition but your description clearly does. The pit does not like it and it can blow up in your face.

I suggest that you stop immediately. Thoroughly research ratholing and do not do it again until you fully understand it. It is a great way to soften your wins and enhance your losses. I cannot stress enough that it must be done properly and that every scenario is different.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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March 15th, 2014 at 12:32:56 PM permalink
I might be wrong, and I apologize to Stab if I am, but it sounds to me like either he is not a winning poker player or is just running awful. People who are winning steadily at poker don't just randomly want to take up new and highly risky things that often. I mean using 40k feels to me that there's a big number he lost that he wants to get back.
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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March 15th, 2014 at 1:44:05 PM permalink
Quote: stabworld

Well I am trying to accomplish - the pit not recording my wins - as this will be a tell tell sign over time that I am counting. Many Hours of play combined with a win rate is indicative of counting.



This is not a good way to accomplish that. They will still record it. If they are wrong, they are just as likely to be wrong on the high side as the low side. After many sessions their errors should more or less cancel out and they should be more or less accurate. So it accomplishes nothing, other than making you stick out and making them dislike you (refusal to color up is extremely inconvenient for them as it means that fills are more frequent)

If you can occasionally rathole a few chips without getting caught, that works a lot better. "Without getting caught" is key.
sabre
sabre
Joined: Aug 16, 2010
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March 15th, 2014 at 1:44:13 PM permalink
Quote: stabworld

I play poker for a living.. I don't consider it gambling..



Then you're really missing something.
ComplexEnigma
ComplexEnigma
Joined: Feb 6, 2013
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March 15th, 2014 at 4:23:44 PM permalink
I'm not trying to be mean but this is an extremely idiotic decision. Doesn't matter how good you get at counting, how good of rules you find, and how ignorant the floor is, you will be playing a hugely negative EV game. After 20 days or whatever, that 0% cash advance isn't going to be 0% anymore. So now not only do you have to work to get the odds in your favor, you gotta overcome the cash advance interest rate which is generally terrible.

And if you do hit ruin, you aren't losing $40,000, you are losing $20,000 of the bank's money and it's rapidly accruing interest. Oh and that $20,000 you borrowed from your retirement? You will have to account for it or pay massive tax penalties. So you lost that money, now have a very expensive loan, and a massive tax bill.

Don't delude yourself, you are not an AP blackjack player. Save up $40,000 on your own then you might have a chance.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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March 15th, 2014 at 5:11:44 PM permalink
Quote: ComplexEnigma

I'm not trying to be mean but this is an extremely idiotic decision. Doesn't matter how good you get at counting, how good of rules you find, and how ignorant the floor is, you will be playing a hugely negative EV game. After 20 days or whatever, that 0% cash advance isn't going to be 0% anymore. So now not only do you have to work to get the odds in your favor, you gotta overcome the cash advance interest rate which is generally terrible.

And if you do hit ruin, you aren't losing $40,000, you are losing $20,000 of the bank's money and it's rapidly accruing interest. Oh and that $20,000 you borrowed from your retirement? You will have to account for it or pay massive tax penalties. So you lost that money, now have a very expensive loan, and a massive tax bill.

Don't delude yourself, you are not an AP blackjack player. Save up $40,000 on your own then you might have a chance.


I agree that this is a bad idea, but if you go back to his post, there are a couple details that you missed. The cash is 0% for 15 months, which is a good long time. And the retirement money is a Roth IRA account. With Roths, you can withdraw your contributions (not their earnings or any gains) totally tax-free. So it is not a loan that has to pay back to himself, and he won't have to pay taxes or penalties. This is a unique function of Roth IRAs that is totally different from traditional IRAs or 401(k) accounts, since you have already paid tax on the contributions. The earnings are the part that are tax-free. Reference: first bullet under Advantages on Wikipedia.

Now, the stated goal of that account is to save for retirement. So it should still be a last-ditch fallback option.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Lemieux66
Lemieux66
Joined: Feb 16, 2014
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March 15th, 2014 at 5:13:46 PM permalink
Stab and RSX should get together and use the 40000 on that Martingale system. A night of fun! Lol
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
ComplexEnigma
ComplexEnigma
Joined: Feb 6, 2013
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March 15th, 2014 at 5:21:31 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

I agree that this is a bad idea, but if you go back to his post, there are a couple details that you missed. The cash is 0% for 15 months, which is a good long time. And the retirement money is a Roth IRA account. With Roths, you can withdraw your contributions (not their earnings or any gains) totally tax-free. So it is not a loan that has to pay back to himself, and he won't have to pay taxes or penalties. This is a unique function of Roth IRAs that is totally different from traditional IRAs or 401(k) accounts, since you have already paid tax on the contributions. The earnings are the part that are tax-free. Reference: first bullet under Advantages on Wikipedia.

Now, the stated goal of that account is to save for retirement. So it should still be a last-ditch fallback option.



Man I want $20,000 at 0% for 15 months. Stick it in a CD for a free $500. I'm not in with banking industry but I don't know why anyone would offer $20,000 cash loan for 0% for 15 months. After inflation the bank is taking a loss.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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March 15th, 2014 at 5:52:13 PM permalink
Quote: ComplexEnigma

Quote: AcesAndEights

I agree that this is a bad idea, but if you go back to his post, there are a couple details that you missed. The cash is 0% for 15 months, which is a good long time. And the retirement money is a Roth IRA account. With Roths, you can withdraw your contributions (not their earnings or any gains) totally tax-free. So it is not a loan that has to pay back to himself, and he won't have to pay taxes or penalties. This is a unique function of Roth IRAs that is totally different from traditional IRAs or 401(k) accounts, since you have already paid tax on the contributions. The earnings are the part that are tax-free. Reference: first bullet under Advantages on Wikipedia.

Now, the stated goal of that account is to save for retirement. So it should still be a last-ditch fallback option.



Man I want $20,000 at 0% for 15 months. Stick it in a CD for a free $500. I'm not in with banking industry but I don't know why anyone would offer $20,000 cash loan for 0% for 15 months. After inflation the bank is taking a loss.


Well he said it was a "balance transfer," so I don't know how that translates to cash (perhaps the OP can comment, if he would like). A lot of cards offer 0% balance transfers when you sign up as a promotional thing. So I guess you could take out the cash advance on one card, and transfer it over immediately. You would usually pay an up-front fee on the cash advance on the first card though, regardless of the APR.

I would guess that 0% loans are always a promotional thing, where they are hoping to get you to not adhere to the letter of the contract, and then hit you with enormous fees. I know a lot of those "0% for 6 months!" deals at shady furniture stores or car dealerships will back-charge you with an insane rate if you don't pay it off during the 0% period.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer

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