Free Bet Blackjack

The link is to a H17 chart. Mohegan Sun is S17.

Quote: Venthus

Wait, paying to double on the free 9A?

I wouldn't complain, but I think that, as I was told recently, you must have 'giant lucky elephant balls'. =P

I have a wheelbarrow to carry them around ;-> If you won't put up extra money for a +EV bet, when the hell will you?

Quote: 1BB

The link is to a H17 chart. Mohegan Sun is S17.

True, but I don't know of a chart adjusted for Free Bet S17. For standard BJ the play changes for only six hands when comparing 6D S17/H17: Three additional surrenders and three additional double-downs for H17. I decided not to use the additional H17 surrenders for dealer Aces on the money hand. I'm not saying that's the best strategy, just my best guess given what I know.

Quote: arcticfun

but it's certainly true that players are taking full advantage of the reduced variance.

How do players take advantage of reduced variance in a -EV game? Reduced variance favors whoever has the edge.

Also, is this game really reduced variance? There are a lot more mutli-bet payouts (which increases variance), but also a lot more pushes (which reduces it). It seems like BJ Switch should have even lower variance, although, the main attraction to the house there is that there are a lot more player mistakes.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

How do players take advantage of reduced variance in a -EV game? Reduced variance favors whoever has the edge.

Also, is this game really reduced variance? There are a lot more mutli-bet payouts (which increases variance), but also a lot more pushes (which reduces it). It seems like BJ Switch should have even lower variance, although, the main attraction to the house there is that there are a lot more player mistakes.

It's true that multi-bet doubles and splits increase variance but the 'bad' variance i.e. losing multiple wagers is reduced in Free Bet as the player generally only has 1 unit at stake. However, the player can still win multiple units with that one unit in play.

Of course, as you stated, the 'Push 22' reduces some 'bad' variance for the casino as well.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

How do players take advantage of reduced variance in a -EV game? Reduced variance favors whoever has the edge.

Also, is this game really reduced variance? There are a lot more mutli-bet payouts (which increases variance), but also a lot more pushes (which reduces it). It seems like BJ Switch should have even lower variance, although, the main attraction to the house there is that there are a lot more player mistakes.

If you are counting cards the reduced variance is something worth taking a look at. Not having to risk multiple max bet wagers on a single hand may reduce some bankroll volatility. Of course the HE makes it not really worth it for a counter with a large enough bankroll already.

Quote: Switch

It's true that multi-bet doubles and splits increase variance but the 'bad' variance i.e. losing multiple wagers is reduced in Free Bet as the player generally only has 1 unit at stake. However, the player can still win multiple units with that one unit in play.

Of course, as you stated, the 'Push 22' reduces some 'bad' variance for the casino as well.

I'm not differentiating between so-called "good" and "bad" variance. We both know exactly what "variance" means :)

Now I'm curious -- is the variance of this game actually lower than regular blackjack? There are a lot of situations possible -- some increase variance and some reduce it. The majority of free doubles are doubles that you would make at regular blackjack, so the free double rule probably reduces variance (-2's are replaced by -1's on losing hands; no effect on winning hands) Of course variance is increased in situations where you would not normally double, but these are relatively rare.

On the other hand, the majority of free splits are splits that you would not have made at regular blackjack (since you don't split most of your pairs). This seems like it should increase variance (since a +2 result is now possible, or even more since you can DAS or resplit). In general, rules which limit splitting or re-splitting at blackjack reduce variance, so I'd assume that the fact that you now split and resplit (with DAS allowed) every non-10, non-5 pair increases it.

And of course the push 22 rule reduces variance.

So, I don't know. The balance seems to be on the "reduced variance" side, but, when I played it, it seemed to have larger swings, but I didn't play for that long, so maybe my intuition was wrong.

Do you have numbers for the variance of this game when played with proper basic strategy?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

... ... ...

Do you have numbers for the variance of this game when played with proper basic strategy?

That's an interesting point. I'll see if I can get the answer from the person who analyzed the game as I would like to see if it differs from the regular game.

I'll post here if I get a response.

Quote: Switch

That's an interesting point. I'll see if I can get the answer from the person who analyzed the game as I would like to see if it differs from the regular game.

I'll post here if I get a response.

Thanks Switch. I have played the game a good bit as well (and really liked it). I am very interested in the answer to this.

My second experience with FBBJ. Played again for about an hour. Left the table flat even, not counting two $2.50 tips and a couple of $1s for coffees. Was up $75 at one point but bled it all back betting the minimum when the count was bad, or when I lost it.

The dealer was one of the best I have ever seen, just in the way she handled the cards, the chips, the lammers, the whole presentation. Cheerful, friendly, but just so efficient and in control that I figure she was working this low-end (for her, not me) game precisely because they wanted someone who was dependable and adapted well to the different "atmosphere" of the game. My problem when I run into a dealer like that is I get self-conscious about keeping the count and lose it. I know it's my option to proceed at my own speed, but when the dealer has that level of competence at what he/she does, I let them. My fault. I think there were opportunities I missed because of it.

She was good, but... she told everyone she thought it was a dumb game!! "You split cards you would never split because it's free. You split those nines against a ten - you'd never do that if it weren't free." I kind of like this game, and since the inventor is here talking about it, I'd like it to be successful, even if I decide that it's not for me.

Again, several people walked up, played a couple of hands, and wandered off. Honestly, I think the bet-on-22 spot on the table added confusion to the learning process. Too much new variation to absorb all at once. Tonight it wasn't because of the language barrier, but I think casual gamblers are intimidated (intentionally) by the casino in general, and hesitate to show their ignorance or lack of "sophistication" by asking how to play.

That said, betting on the dealer 22 was the focus when I was there tonight. There was a lot of action on it, including a guy who was betting $25 on it while betting $100-$200 on the regular game. The dealer at one point had three 22s in a row, and he was on all three. She also had one suited 22 which no one was betting. As a result of that one, two other people started betting it, and, of course, that was the end of that. More action than I would have expected, but I never bet match-the-dealer either, since the odds versus the reality is so easy to see that, to me, it's dumb. Can't figure out the odds on this 22 as easily, but we know that no wager that pays 50:1 will come in even close to 1 time in 50. Are the true odds for this available somewhere?

I'll keep playing it, although if all the FBBJ tables go up to $25 this weekend like all the other $10 tables, then it's back to $5 steerage for me. Otherwise, the idea of not-losing a double or split that goes bad because my money isn't out there is very attractive. I split those nines, actually out to three hands, and won them all. $30 back for risking $10. Not too shabby. I do hope it survives.

BTW, one minor note. The felt on my table had a typo! There's some verbiage on the edge closest to the players that explain the rules on doubles, and there's a letter "P" missing. I forget what the word is but it needs a "P". In fact, the "P" is actually present on the felt, a few inches down from the text where it should be! I have no idea how they make felt. The letters are not glued on, so it's not like someone ironed it on in the wrong place. If it was just missing it would make sense, but how in the world did this one letter wander off from it's assigned spot and end up in the middle of another line? Who would notice such a thing? Hey. Follow some of the discussions around here and you think being this anal about the felt is weird? Sure.

Quote: rhodyBob

[The dealer] was good, but... she told everyone she thought [Free Bet Blackjack] was a dumb game!! "You split cards you would never split because it's free. You split those nines against a ten - you'd never do that if it weren't free."

Thanks for sharing your experience, rhodyBob! Gee, do ya think the dealer had any idea what the house edge is for the game? If she trashes FBBJ I shudder to think what she says when dealing Three Card Poker. I'll be out and about at Mohegan Sun this weekend. I'll drop by the FBBJ tables and share back.

Quote: rhodyBob

My second experience with FBBJ. Played again for about an hour. Left the table flat even, not counting two $2.50 tips and a couple of $1s for coffees. Was up $75 at one point but bled it all back betting the minimum when the count was bad, or when I lost it.

Another comprehensive report - thank you again rhodyBob

Quote: rhodyBob

The dealer was one of the best I have ever seen, just in the way she handled the cards, the chips, the lammers, the whole presentation... ...

That's great to hear as a good dealer easily helps this game due to the added interaction needed.

Quote: rhodyBob

She was good, but... she told everyone she thought it was a dumb game!! ...

The good feeling about the dealer didn't last long :-) If she had said "I'm not sure if I would play this game myself as it involves unconventional splits and doubles" (or something like that) then that would be fine. But to say that it is a dumb game when you have no idea of the house edge is both detrimental and misleading to new players who may be wanting to try it.

My reply to her would have been something like "Casinos like to install something new to keep the floor fresh and updated and offer players more options to gamble. If Blackjack variants were not created then the regular game would be replaced by other carnival-style games such as poker, or, worse still, the regular game would be replaced with 6/5 version, which has happened a lot. Even more damaging to table games than that is that the game could be replaced by slot machines. So, the people who are creating new game variants are trying to keep the optimal amount of table games on the floor. If Free Bet is replacing a current Blackjack game with similar odds but one in which a lot of players find more enjoyable then how does that relate to it being a dumb game?"

Quote: rhodyBob

Again, several people walked up, played a couple of hands, and wandered off. Honestly, I think the bet-on-22 spot on the table added confusion to the learning process. Too much new variation to absorb all at once. Tonight it wasn't because of the language barrier, but I think casual gamblers are intimidated (intentionally) by the casino in general, and hesitate to show their ignorance or lack of "sophistication" by asking how to play.

This is a good point rhodyBob and can really hurt the game when it is not explained quickly and clearly. I always tell dealers to say "The casino will double and split your hands for free and in return if the dealer gets 22 then your wager is a push". I've seen too many dealers go into detail about the 'Push 22' side-wager which is totally unnecessary as a lot won't play it anyway.

Get down to the basics and leave it at that - KISS definitely the key here!

Quote: rhodyBob

That said, betting on the dealer 22 was the focus when I was there tonight. There was a lot of action on it, including a guy who was betting $25 on it while betting $100-$200 on the regular game.

Nice to hear that although most tables in Vegas have gone without the '22' side wager.

Quote: rhodyBob

Can't figure out the odds on this 22 as easily, but we know that no wager that pays 50:1 will come in even close to 1 time in 50. Are the true odds for this available somewhere?

If it's 8/1, 20/1 and 50/1 then it's 6.84%.

Quote: rhodyBob

I'll keep playing it, although if all the FBBJ tables go up to $25 this weekend like all the other $10 tables, then it's back to $5 steerage for me. Otherwise, the idea of not-losing a double or split that goes bad because my money isn't out there is very attractive. I split those nines, actually out to three hands, and won them all. $30 back for risking $10. Not too shabby. I do hope it survives.

Glad you still like the game and nice result with the 9's. Was it against a dealer 10?

Quote: rhodyBob

BTW, one minor note. The felt on my table had a typo!

I'll pass this information on to the relevant channels.

Thank you again rhodyBob for taking the time to post!!!

I really appreciate those that have taken the time to both respond in this thread as well as provide detailed reports on how the game is progressing at Mohegan Sun and other casinos.

As a small 'token' of appreciation (excuse the pun :-) ), if anyone would like to own one of the gold 'Free Bet' coins (great for using a card guard in poker) then I will happily send one on if they email me at geoff at blackjackswitch dot com with their address details.

These are not given away or sold by casinos so they are quite difficult to come by.

Anyway, if anyone would like one then they have until Monday 7th April midnight (Vegas time) to send me a quick message.

Quote: Switch

[Push 22 Free Bet Blackjack side bet odds are] 8/1, 20/1 and 50/1 then it's 6.84%.

Ouch! The only positive spin I can put on that is "it's a better return than the Pairplus Three Card Poker bet."

Quote: rhodyBob

My second experience with FBBJ. Played again for about an hour. Left the table flat even, not counting two $2.50 tips and a couple of $1s for coffees. Was up $75 at one point but bled it all back betting the minimum when the count was bad, or when I lost it.

The dealer was one of the best I have ever seen, just in the way she handled the cards, the chips, the lammers, the whole presentation. Cheerful, friendly, but just so efficient and in control that I figure she was working this low-end (for her, not me) game precisely because they wanted someone who was dependable and adapted well to the different "atmosphere" of the game. My problem when I run into a dealer like that is I get self-conscious about keeping the count and lose it. I know it's my option to proceed at my own speed, but when the dealer has that level of competence at what he/she does, I let them. My fault. I think there were opportunities I missed because of it.

She was good, but... she told everyone she thought it was a dumb game!! "You split cards you would never split because it's free. You split those nines against a ten - you'd never do that if it weren't free." I kind of like this game, and since the inventor is here talking about it, I'd like it to be successful, even if I decide that it's not for me.

Again, several people walked up, played a couple of hands, and wandered off. Honestly, I think the bet-on-22 spot on the table added confusion to the learning process. Too much new variation to absorb all at once. Tonight it wasn't because of the language barrier, but I think casual gamblers are intimidated (intentionally) by the casino in general, and hesitate to show their ignorance or lack of "sophistication" by asking how to play.

That said, betting on the dealer 22 was the focus when I was there tonight. There was a lot of action on it, including a guy who was betting $25 on it while betting $100-$200 on the regular game. The dealer at one point had three 22s in a row, and he was on all three. She also had one suited 22 which no one was betting. As a result of that one, two other people started betting it, and, of course, that was the end of that. More action than I would have expected, but I never bet match-the-dealer either, since the odds versus the reality is so easy to see that, to me, it's dumb. Can't figure out the odds on this 22 as easily, but we know that no wager that pays 50:1 will come in even close to 1 time in 50. Are the true odds for this available somewhere?

I'll keep playing it, although if all the FBBJ tables go up to $25 this weekend like all the other $10 tables, then it's back to $5 steerage for me. Otherwise, the idea of not-losing a double or split that goes bad because my money isn't out there is very attractive. I split those nines, actually out to three hands, and won them all. $30 back for risking $10. Not too shabby. I do hope it survives.

BTW, one minor note. The felt on my table had a typo! There's some verbiage on the edge closest to the players that explain the rules on doubles, and there's a letter "P" missing. I forget what the word is but it needs a "P". In fact, the "P" is actually present on the felt, a few inches down from the text where it should be! I have no idea how they make felt. The letters are not glued on, so it's not like someone ironed it on in the wrong place. If it was just missing it would make sense, but how in the world did this one letter wander off from it's assigned spot and end up in the middle of another line? Who would notice such a thing? Hey. Follow some of the discussions around here and you think being this anal about the felt is weird? Sure.

I think I was at your table...the dealer was Laura? & an Asian dude walked off with a huge stack after making it look easy? were you my investor on a soft double?

Fun way to lose $300....was up by that much at one point, but I am a sucker for free things :-) they put me down as winning $350...can I dispute that?

The printing mistake on the Mohegan Sun felts is very minor. It will not be noticed by most and in no way affects the game. In the information about splits the word except is spelled exce t, with a gap. The missing p ended up on top of the next line down. It was a printing error, not a spelling error. This is only on the left side of the felt. The right side is okay.

Reports of dealers complaining are true but that reflects on them rather than the game. No one takes them seriously and they aren't driving anyone away from the tables that I can see.

Players are enjoying the game but are shying away from the side bet. Almost every player I've watched knows the strategy and that surprised me.

They don't open every table in pit 5 until the shift change at 1PM but all four Free Bet tables have been open around the clock. They really seem to be making an effort to get people to play.

As much as if bugs me, I think this should ALWAYS be bundled with the Dealer-22 sidebet for the simple reason that it acts as a passive reminder (or active, if it's bet) that 22s are pushes.

Cues don't always work though; I have the habit of playing with my chips and driving one into the table on an expected loss (like 21v22...). "Hey, don't worry! 22, you won!" "...Oh. Huh. Oops." *-1 karma*

I think it's less that people "know" the strategy and rather it's intuitive (outside the possibility of deceptive looking hands...) Like anything low pair is jumk, so you might as well hope for a double, or at least a second chance at making a decent hand. 9vT is kind of a long shot anyways, so might as well pray for the double payoff since what a normal player sort of expects is a losing 19v20 anyhow.

Also, I will totally take you up on a Freebet token once I get to a computer. Woo!

Quote: Venthus

Also, I will totally take you up on a Freebet token once I get to a computer. Woo!

He already emailed me back saying it will be on the way. Very nice offer!

Quote: Venthus

As much as if bugs me, I think this should ALWAYS be bundled with the Dealer-22 sidebet for the simple reason that it acts as a passive reminder (or active, if it's bet) that 22s are pushes.

Cues don't always work though; I have the habit of playing with my chips and driving one into the table on an expected loss (like 21v22...). "Hey, don't worry! 22, you won!" "...Oh. Huh. Oops." *-1 karma*

I think it's less that people "know" the strategy and rather it's intuitive (outside the possibility of deceptive looking hands...) Like anything low pair is jumk, so you might as well hope for a double, or at least a second chance at making a decent hand. 9vT is kind of a long shot anyways, so might as well pray for the double payoff since what a normal player sort of expects is a losing 19v20 anyhow.

Also, I will totally take you up on a Freebet token once I get to a computer. Woo!

that was an incredibly mind-fucking piece of yesterday's action...watching 50:1 dealer 22's pass us by two or three times & multiple 20:1's (a number of which were hit by one player). still had a blast playing & looking forward to coming back with friends & alienating a table...the ploppies were out in full effect & doing extra irritating things (i.e. split 3's against A, frequently pulling back & re-entering, etc). those risky free splits are really not worth it...good luck explaining that to them though...I don't even try. saw the dealer try to explain & she was promptly met with "but it's free!" by at least two people.

Quote: kitties666

that was an incredibly mind-fucking piece of yesterday's action...watching 50:1 dealer 22's pass us by two or three times & multiple 20:1's (a number of which were hit by one player). still had a blast playing & looking forward to coming back with friends & alienating a table...the ploppies were out in full effect & doing extra irritating things (i.e. split 3's against A, frequently pulling back & re-entering, etc). those risky free splits are really not worth it...good luck explaining that to them though...I don't even try. saw the dealer try to explain & she was promptly met with "but it's free!" by at least two people.

Not sure you're right there -- basic FBBJ strategy says split whenever you can, regardless.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/

Quote: kitties666

the ploppies were out in full effect & doing extra irritating things (i.e. split 3's against A, frequently pulling back & re-entering, etc). those risky free splits are really not worth it...good luck explaining that to them though...I don't even try. saw the dealer try to explain & she was promptly met with "but it's free!" by at least two people.

In this scenario it sounds like you were the ploppy. The basic strategy IS to free split/double whenever you get the chance, no matter how crazy it may seem.

And frequent pulling back/re-entering has no effect on anything, that's just superstition. Unless of course they were wonging in and out.

Quote: kitties666

that was an incredibly mind-fucking piece of yesterday's action...watching 50:1 dealer 22's pass us by two or three times & multiple 20:1's (a number of which were hit by one player). still had a blast playing & looking forward to coming back with friends & alienating a table...the ploppies were out in full effect & doing extra irritating things (i.e. split 3's against A, frequently pulling back & re-entering, etc). those risky free splits are really not worth it...good luck explaining that to them though...I don't even try. saw the dealer try to explain & she was promptly met with "but it's free!" by at least two people.

The dealers were not trained in the strategy of the game, a lot of which is counterintuitive. They are the last people I would listen to. If you do not use the proper strategy, the dealer's hands of 22 will do you in. Take every free bet no matter what.

Quote: 1BB

The dealers were not trained in the strategy of the game, a lot of which is counterintuitive. They are the last people I would listen to. If you do not use the proper strategy, the dealer's hands of 22 will do you in. Take every free bet no matter what.

I was fortunate enough to only have the free splits materialize when it was favorable. I'll care less about it next time for sure. I can be quite outcome-based, & in yesterday's case the outcome was pretty bad at one particular table (where the drunk guy with no bankroll was upset because he got too many 15's/16's). I get the sentiment...however, the one time I was almost backed off (turning stone) was for precisely this behavior, for the same reason (15's/16's)...when I asked the dealer why she said because the other players don't like it (which was funny because the one other player at the table came to my defense). I'm sure I'll get over it one day...

& thanks for the candid insight...i hope to put a beating on this game in the near future. i think i'll just do my best to not pay attention to others...& i will take the splits.

also, there's no 3-card double in this game at Mohegan...does that not give the house a more significant edge?

Quote: kitties666

also, there's no 3-card double in this game at Mohegan...does that not give the house a more significant edge?

No, because the "give back" in 3 card double is that splitting 4s is prohibited. It is rare to find this game with S17. This is one of the better games.

interesting. i knew the S17 portion was rare & awesome, but I had no idea about the 3-card/4's bit. it's certainly a different & fun way to play...hope it's there for my next trip. any idea on how long this will be around?

Quote: kitties666

interesting. i knew the S17 portion was rare & awesome, but I had no idea about the 3-card/4's bit. it's certainly a different & fun way to play...hope it's there for my next trip. any idea on how long this will be around?

It's getting a huge marketing push and going into dozens of casinos around the world, definitely on the upswing for installs (huge congrats on that, Switch!) so I suspect it will see at least a couple of years of availability and hopefully become a standard.

Quote: kitties666

I think I was at your table...the dealer was Laura? & an Asian dude walked off with a huge stack after making it look easy? were you my investor on a soft double?

That was me. This is a first - seeing a poster from this site in person.

Quote: rhodyBob

That was me. This is a first - seeing a poster from this site in person.

Nice. Hope it turned out better for you than me. An hour or two earlier I had a much better run at it...was definitely fun either way.

I hope no one is getting bored with all the Mohegan Sun talk but it's not every day that one of our members gets a game into one of the largest casinos in the world.

All four tables were full at noon today. My wife wanted to play and had to wait for a seat. This place gets crowded quickly on Saturdays and Sundays. She jumped into a shoe that I would have wonged out of, flat bet $10 and won $105 in 30 minutes. She had to exit before they ran a LACK of skills check on her. :-)

Switch, there are no rack cards on any of these tables nor have there ever been even on day one. There are no empty holders indicating that they ran out. I have checked numerous times. The game slows down, make that stops dead, whenever a new player sits and inquires about the rules. I had my wife ask for a card and the floor had said he had no idea. She persisted and the floor sought out the pit boss. He pointed to a couple of cabinets in the pit, the floor checked them both and shrugged. As she was coloring up, the relief took over so she repeated her request to them. After a cursory look she was told there were none. The floor said he has never seen one.

I have one of those cards, so they were around for a while, and I think there was a rack on the back of the table for them. Got it on the first day I played, which was not day 1 of the start. There were no cards on the table for my second try. I agree though, that the dealers will make or break this, I think. My first dealer, Mr Dwenny Doo DwennyDoo, the Russian, was useless, and the second time the dealer was not dispensing KoolAid, exactly the opposite.

Table limits were raised to 3x$15, 1x$10 when I checked shortly after noon on Friday. Were set to 2x$25, 2x$15 in the evening. Saturday night all tables were $25. At 6 am Sunday morning the limits were 2x$15, 2x$25. Tables were near capacity each time I looked except for the 6 am check. More than a few people were playing black chips at night. With the table minimum increases the game is no longer a viable option for the $5 tables, at least for me :-(

don't they also raise the minimums at specific tables when said tables have taken a bad enough beating for the day? I recall them raising from $10 to $50 once in casino of the wind after me & some friends completed an epic session in which we sent them back for money twice...

Stopped by the Free Bet tables at 10:15 pm, all are $15 minimum. Saw the dealer deny a free double-down on a 9,2 had that had been free split. Pit critter backed up the dealer when the player protested. I stuck my nose in where I should not have and urged the pit critter consult one of the few cards for the game that are now in the pit. He did not do so, and as far as I know it was not made right.

Quote: kitties666

don't they also raise the minimums at specific tables when said tables have taken a bad enough beating for the day? I recall them raising from $10 to $50 once in casino of the wind after me & some friends completed an epic session in which we sent them back for money twice...

I don't know that's true, but the table limits are set by central control as far as I know. The pit boss gets a call and limits are changed.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Stopped by the Free Bet tables at 10:15 pm, all are $15 minimum. Saw the dealer deny a free double-down on a 9,2 had that had been free split. Pit critter backed up the dealer when the player protested. I stuck my nose in where I should not have and urged the pit critter consult one of the few cards for the game that are now in the pit. He did not do so, and as far as I know it was not made right.

ouch. that sucks. i hope the player escalates that one.

as i recall, there were at least two unchecked instances of dealer error when i went...one where dealer paid out the table even though dealer had 22 (no side bets, so of course, no one cared), & at least once i noticed them immediately removing side bets from busted players while every other time side bets were left up after a player bust but before the dealer pulled their own cards...how exactly, should that one play out?

Quote: kitties666

... ... ... & at least once i noticed them immediately removing side bets from busted players while every other time side bets were left up after a player bust but before the dealer pulled their own cards...how exactly, should that one play out?

Busted hands can still win the '22' side wager so the side-bet should be left where it is until the dealer completes his/her hand.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Stopped by the Free Bet tables at 10:15 pm, all are $15 minimum. Saw the dealer deny a free double-down on a 9,2 had that had been free split. Pit critter backed up the dealer when the player protested. ... ... ...

This is why I believe that player information cards should be available at the table, especially with a new game.

The card should clearly state "Free doubling after splitting" and that would have ended any confusion and allowed the player to receive the correct free double.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I don't know that's true, but the table limits are set by central control as far as I know. The pit boss gets a call and limits are changed

Normally table limits are set by the pitboss.They don't raise the minimum because a table is losing. They will raise it depending on how busy it is or if they want to force people off the table so they can close it .

Deleted: Switch answered the question I was answering.

Quote: kitties666

ouch. that sucks. i hope the player escalates that one.

as i recall, there were at least two unchecked instances of dealer error when i went...one where dealer paid out the table even though dealer had 22 (no side bets, so of course, no one cared), & at least once i noticed them immediately removing side bets from busted players while every other time side bets were left up after a player bust but before the dealer pulled their own cards...how exactly, should that one play out?

When a player breaks, the dealer picks up the chips and cards as in regular blackjack. If a side bet was wagered it's a little different. The losing bet is still picked up but the cards are not. They are folded and placed on the 22 circle with the chips from the side bet on top of them. The hand is played out to see if the dealer makes 22.

I just left Mohegan Sun about an hour ago. There are still no information cards on any of the tables. This is an absolute disgrace as it needlessly slows down the game while the dealers explain it to new players. That should taper off as the game gains a foothold but for now it is still very new.

Quote: 1BB

I just left Mohegan Sun about an hour ago. There are still no information cards on any of the tables. This is an absolute disgrace as it needlessly slows down the game while the dealers explain it to new players.

This is such a frustrating situation for game developers.

You get a large installation at a premiere property, have worked tirelessly to tweak a game as it is initially rolled out, provide them with a finished new game product that is working well at 90%+ other installations and after all that, no one at their property can manage the simple task of securing a $3 rack card holder and filling it with game rule cards. Unbelievable!!

I make it a habit to ask for a rack card or the rules on new and not so new games. Standard response is for dealer to ask pit boss and him to scrounge thru a desk and then say he will explain the game to me and coming up empty handed. Per gaming in most jurisdictions the casino must have a written set of rules available for the player. Several dealers have told me that managements thinks this mean a set of rules in the safe is compliant.

No rack cards or rules for Switch in majority of casino in Blackhawk while the game was there. Plus Colorado is still basically a $5 town weekday and $10 reluctantly on weekends. So you had to walk past $10 double deck games to get to Switch table. Then a player would have to bet $10 on two hands with the goal of doubling down or splitting after the SWITCH. So $40 or $50 a pop to play a new game. Was never gonna happen. So SWITCH was basically DOA.

Expected the igames, egames whatever from Bally to last more than a few months though. WRONG again !

Saratoga now has 7 blackjack tables All single deck 1 : 3/2 and 6 : 6/5 !

Quote: 1BB

I just left Mohegan Sun about an hour ago. There are still no information cards on any of the tables. This is an absolute disgrace as it needlessly slows down the game while the dealers explain it to new players. That should taper off as the game gains a foothold but for now it is still very new.

Wonder what's going on with these info cards.

I was there Sunday night ~ 5:00 PM and there were no cards anywhere. The lady next to me, betting all greens, wanted an explanation, and again the language barrier got in the way. Elderly lady, Asian dealer. The floor came by to do the splaynin, and I asked where were those cards "I thought I saw around here the other day". Pit boss or someone more senior came by, said "oh yeah, I saw those back in the office" and off she went. Came back a few minutes later with a stack of cards. Gave one to me, which I gave to the lady, and pit person put the rest of the cards on top of the cabinet that sits in the middle of the pit. They were there when I left ~ 6:00.

If I were to hazard a guess, my bet would be that the worker bees aren't having any of the New Game KoolAid. Like everywhere else, please don't disturb my established working situation. Low-level management climbs in the gerbil wheel and starts walking. No disruption in the normal routine appreciated. The games that were being offered when they started working there are the status quo, with nothing new or different tolerated. With all the watchfulness and paranoia that we see with rating play, accounting for any chip higher than green, and who knows what else, who can blame them?

The cards are there, the cards are not. There. Not. Maybe the players have been asking for them all.

BTW, the tables were all $15 minimum all day Sunday.

Checked on Mohegan Sun Free Bet tables at 2 pm local time Monday. All four tables were $10 minimum, and all tables had a few game cards in the plastic holders. Talked with a dealer who was leaving the pit with a game card in his hand. This would be his first day dealing Free Bet and he was given a card to read in the break room, after which he would watch a few hands dealt. Checked back at 3:20 pm and the same dealer was just breaking from his first session dealing Free Bet. Trial-by-fire, sink-or-swim OJT.

Another example of superior casino management !

@ BCS and rhodyBob,

Thank you for your continued updates despite some of it being frustrating feedback.

Hey , isn't it time to hug your daughters soon ?

Quote: Buzzard

Hey , isn't it time to hug your daughters soon ?

Did that when I got back last week Buzz :-)

Glad to hear it ! That's the best free bet ever !!!!!!