Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
• Posts: 2013
May 16th, 2013 at 6:29:53 AM permalink
Quote: Switch

Jim, if you have 'soft 18' with 3 or more cards (on your Free Play hand) then you would 'Hit' against all dealer up-cards except a 7.

Can you explain this Geoff? Why would you hit ?
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
• Posts: 934
May 16th, 2013 at 6:40:40 AM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Can you explain this Geoff? Why would you hit ?

It's down to the fact that if you 'push' with a Free Bet then you don't end up with anything so you have to win the hand to actually get paid.

'Soft 18' verses a dealer 8 makes sense to me as a 'push' is no good to the player so a 'hit' is needed.

I don't know the exact math' but I guess that 'soft 18' gives you more overall wins if you hit verses a 2-6 rather than stand. I'm sure that it increases the losses as well but overall you will get paid out more often on your 'Free Bet'.

For example, if you have 'soft 18' verses a dealer 8 and you 'stand' then you may:-

Win 20%
Push 50%
Lose 30%
(I've totally guessed these numbers but I'm hoping it will clarify my reasoning :-) ).

If you 'Hit' then you may:-

Win 30%
Push 20%
Lose 50%

For the 'Free Bet' then the Win% is your measure of return. So, although you lose more hands by hitting, you actually make more money on the 'Free Bet' as your win rate increases.

Hope this helps.
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
• Posts: 2013
May 16th, 2013 at 7:21:22 AM permalink
Thanks,that makes sense.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6272
May 17th, 2013 at 1:38:41 AM permalink
Finally got to play this game at Mirage this past weekend! It was about 2:30am in my last night in Vegas, and I was surprised the table was still open. Dealer was knowledgeable and would help explain the game if people that were confused walked by and asked. He couldn't convince everyone to play though. :( I ran a little hot, and got about 8 free doubles in maybe 15 minutes. I only won about half of them, but they helped me quit \$40 (4 units) ahead as he failed to get a single 22. Once I was about ready to leave some drunk Australian chicks played for a bit. If I was single, I definitely would have kept playing a bit longer...lol Also when I briefly stopped in at Casino Royale during my trip, the game also looked quite busy.

I'll definitely try to make time again to play this next trip! It's a very good game Geoff!
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
• Posts: 934
May 17th, 2013 at 6:08:19 AM permalink
Thanks for the report tringlomane and I'm really pleased to hear about the dealer at The Mirage as that's an integral part to helping anew game gain exposure.

The lack of a dealer 22 would have greatly helped your win rate as you were basically playing a game with free splits and doubles. The 4 unit win you had shows the difference as you stated that you had about 8 doubles and won half of them. In the regular game, your losing 4 doubles would have had you leaving the table level rather than being up 4 units.

Casino Royale manage to jam their tables despite being a 6/5 version.
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
• Posts: 4299
May 17th, 2013 at 9:45:24 AM permalink
Quote: Switch

Casino Royale manage to jam their tables despite being a 6/5 version.

Doesn't surprise me given their average clientele.

I may need to try out Free Bet on my next trip (and Switch for that matter), but I don't know the correct BS for either. I suppose I could just print out the charts from WoV or Discount Gambling.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6272
May 17th, 2013 at 5:53:48 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

I suppose I could just print out the charts from WoV or Discount Gambling.

Yeah, that's what I did and I had it on the table. It was no problem, and helped me hit a 13 vs. a 2 at one point...haha But note some of the recent posts in this thread for some adjustments. The game got rid of doubling on more than two cards at Mirage and Casino Royale (not sure about GN), but the WOO strategy isn't updated for that. So if you have a soft 18 with 3 or more cards you should hit if it is your free hand except vs. a dealer 7. If that's your real money hand, then you would stand for 7 or less as normal. You have to be more aggressive with a free hand since a push is just as bad as a loss.

And Geoff, did the math report from Stephen tell you the Standard Deviation of the Golden Nugget game (and/or other versions)? I would be interested to know the change in comparison to regular blackjack.
Switch
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
• Posts: 934
May 17th, 2013 at 6:24:00 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

... ... ... The game got rid of doubling on any two cards at Mirage and Casino Royale (not sure about GN), but the WOO strategy isn't updated for that. So if you have a soft 18 with 3 or more cards you should hit if it is your free hand except vs. a dealer 7. ... ... ...

And Geoff, did the math report from Stephen tell you the Standard Deviation of the Golden Nugget game (and/or other versions)? I would be interested to know the change in comparison to regular blackjack.

tringlomane, is that a typo'? Did you mean not allow 'doubling on more than 2 cards' or are you saying that The Mirage won't allow you to double (with your own chips) on 2-card soft totals?

I didn't get a figure for the Standard Deviation of the game. My guess is that it would be lower as you can generally only lose 1 bet at a time. I'll see if I can get hold of the figure when I'm in Vegas next month.
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012