Free play doesnt last forever
On Tuesday I get $15 free play at Red Rock and $5 @ Suncoast which is nearby and that will be worth the drive.
They withhold 3% now so it may not be worth as much. They don't tax Social Security or most retirement money. If you don't live in MS and you have only retirement income or you win a large amount you should get the form and fill it out. You may be able to get a refund.
Quote: MrVYes, it shoud be Schedule A to itemize, not Schedule C which is for business expenses: my bad.
Whenever I receive any W2-G's I itemize to avoid having to pay tax on the W2-G amount; had I chosen the standard deduction I'd have to include the W2-G income with my other income and could not offset it against gambling losses.
When itemizing I report my total gambling losses for the year on Schedule A, and total wins on 1040; typically the amount is well in excess of the amount of the standard deduction.
I did this for 2021 and as I had a better than average year (my records showed I had more wins then losses) I reported it and paid the tax.
But most years I and other recreational gamblers lose and have to pay no tax on W2-G income if they itemize..
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Mr V, that is my point. If you have enough deductions to itemize you can deduct your gambling losses. If you don’t you’re out of luck. It seems I am not speaking English.
Quote: tuttigymQuote: JimRockfordBut if your gambling losses combined with other deductions don’t exceed the standard deduction, then they’re useless. You’re expected to pay tax on the W2Gs and winning sessions anyway, even with a net loss.
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In MS, a hand pay from a large slot win results in a W2G. The state of MS requires the casino to take out the resultant state income tax at that time. If the player wants to recoup that tax, he must file for it with the proper documentation or offsets. The W2G represents ordinary income so when filing must be processed to be part of the taxable income after all deductions standard or otherwise. If one files on a 1040EZ, then there is no offset. If one files using a schedule of allowable deductions, then casino losses can be used to offset the W2G win. I think that is what Mr. Rockford is saying.
As far as paying taxes on other wining sessions, an individual is opening a can of worms for the IRS to dissect as they may require you to provide information on every gambling session and venue for that taxable year. That, for me, would create more headaches than one could imagine.
tuttigym
link to original post
It apparently comes as a surprise to many that 70% of tax payers do not itemize. And most are not young singles filing 1040EZ. If you have paid off your mortgage and do not pay state income tax. It’s difficult to have enough deductions to itemize no matter your income.
Quote: JimRockfordMr V, that is my point. If you have enough deductions to itemize you can deduct your gambling losses. If you don’t you’re out of luck. It seems I am not speaking English.
No, I read you loud and clear.
I always have enough deductions to itemize, as most recreational gamblers should have if they track their wins and losses for the year.
Of course if I didn't have enough to make itemization worth while I would claim the standard deduction.
Quote: tuttigymFraud is when one files paperwork with numbers that are intentionally inaccurate or misleading.
Yes, and intentionally omitting income on your tax return is fraud. I agree people will likely never get caught or prosecuted for it.
Quote: MrVQuote: JimRockfordMr V, that is my point. If you have enough deductions to itemize you can deduct your gambling losses. If you don’t you’re out of luck. It seems I am not speaking English.
No, I read you loud and clear.
I always have enough deductions to itemize, as most recreational gamblers should have if they track their wins and losses for the year.
Of course if I didn't have enough to make itemization worth while I would claim the standard deduction.
link to original post
The 2022 standard deduction for married filing jointly is $25,900. If I’m losing five figures gambling, I’d call that a problem, not recreation.
Quote: JimRockfordThe 2022 standard deduction for married filing jointly is $25,900. If I’m losing five figures gambling, I’d call that a problem, not recreation.
So would I, but that has never happened to me.
Only one year (last year) had variance so favored me that I had to pay tax on winnings.
Let me break it down for you Jim as you just don't seem to get it.
In a typical year I get at least one handpay, with a W2-G; I gamble regularly and keep accurate records of how much I win and lose each trip.
Say I won a total of $70K in a year but lost $73K; my actual net yearly profit / loss is a loss of $3K.
When filing I'd put $70K on the 1040 as gambling winnings and then list $70K on schedule A as gambling losses.
They 'wash" each other, no tax owed.
I cannot deduct the full $73K loss, only $70K, as IRS rules prohibit offsetting losses in an amount greater than winnings: I have to "eat" that additional $3K loss, tax-wise, but I'd owe no tax on my yearly winnings, including the hand pay .
Had I taken the standard deduction I'd have to include any handpays as income on form 1040 and could not offset them against total yearly losses, which losses almost always exceed the standard deduction amount..
Quote: MrVQuote: JimRockfordThe 2022 standard deduction for married filing jointly is $25,900. If I’m losing five figures gambling, I’d call that a problem, not recreation.
So would I, but that has never happened to me.
Only one year (last year) had variance so favored me that I had to pay tax on winnings.
Let me break it down for you Jim as you just don't seem to get it.
In a typical year I get at least one handpay, with a W2-G; I gamble regularly and keep accurate records of how much I win and lose each trip.
Say I won a total of $70K in a year but lost $73K; my actual net yearly profit / loss is a loss of $3K.
When filing I'd put $70K on the 1040 as gambling winnings and then list $70K on schedule A as gambling losses.
They 'wash" each other, no tax owed.
I cannot deduct the full $73K loss, only $70K, as IRS rules prohibit offsetting losses in an amount greater than winnings: I have to "eat" that additional $3K loss, tax-wise, but I'd owe no tax on my yearly winnings, including the hand pay .
Had I taken the standard deduction I'd have to include any handpays as income on form 1040 and could not offset them against total yearly losses, which losses almost always exceed the standard deduction amount..
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I get it Mr. V. I make no judgment about your volume of action, but I will never in my life have more than a few thousand of losses to offset wins.
And those of you who use a tax software program such as Turbotax know that Turbotax will figure your taxes both ways -- itemized and standard -- before it chooses the optimal way for you to file.
Simply, you should make both calculations and use the figure that favors you.
There are active players who will benefit from itemizing.
There are low level players who won't benefit from itemizing.
You do what's best for you.
DarkOz if true, yet another reason to buy free play for more than 50%.
Quote: AxelWolfGood luck to anyone hitting for millions of dollars while using free play and trying to claim you don't owe taxes on that because you were using free play.
DarkOz if true, yet another reason to buy free play for more than 50%.
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Go back and read the whole thread. There's more to it that's been discussed.
Quote: darkozQuote: SeedvalueOne year maybe recently or not that long ago I had a very unique tax problem for my accountant regarding Free play. What happens if the casino issues you $500 in freeplay but you have a method to make that 1k in freeplay everyday maybe multiple times a day. He decided the best course of action here was to treat the original $500 as he normally does, and the rest as taxable gambling income. He then asked me teach him about slots and promotions.
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To my understanding your accountant handled it properly.
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After reading these two posts, I was wondering if on your returns you list yourselves as "self-employed professional gamblers" during the years of your 6 and 7 figure incomes?
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: darkozQuote: SeedvalueOne year maybe recently or not that long ago I had a very unique tax problem for my accountant regarding Free play. What happens if the casino issues you $500 in freeplay but you have a method to make that 1k in freeplay everyday maybe multiple times a day. He decided the best course of action here was to treat the original $500 as he normally does, and the rest as taxable gambling income. He then asked me teach him about slots and promotions.
link to original post
To my understanding your accountant handled it properly.
link to original post
After reading these two posts, I was wondering if on your returns you list yourselves as "self-employed professional gamblers" during the years of your 6 and 7 figure incomes?
tuttigym
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To be honest I have no idea.
I hand all my documents to my accountant, go over the details and I let him do his work. I probably should go over his work but I doubt I will be able to follow it.
He hands me back the paperwork and I shove it in my draw.
SMH.
Well, you're probably not filing as a professional gambler because if you were youd be keeping different records than most people including simple expenses as mileage to different casinos.
And that $60,000 seed money....
Never mind.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDarkoz you can manage a team of people using other people's cards but you don't know if you file as a professional gambler and dont keep track of how you even file your taxes?
SMH.
Well, you're probably not filing as a professional gambler because if you were youd be keeping different records than most people including simple expenses as mileage to different casinos.
And that $60,000 seed money....
Never mind.
link to original post
You are probably right.
However I did state up thread that I probably overpay on my taxes.
EDIT: One issue with such itemizing would be providing proof if during an audit of my $60,000 investment, etc
I'm supposed to show 28 player's cards win/loss statements in 28 different names and claim I financed all that?
Yes, it would be the truth but ummm, talk about opening cans of worms.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonDarkoz you can manage a team of people using other people's cards but you don't know if you file as a professional gambler and dont keep track of how you even file your taxes?
SMH.
Well, you're probably not filing as a professional gambler because if you were youd be keeping different records than most people including simple expenses as mileage to different casinos.
And that $60,000 seed money....
Never mind.
link to original post
You are probably right.
However I did state up thread that I probably overpay on my taxes.
EDIT: One issue with such itemizing would be providing proof if during an audit of my $60,000 investment, etc
I'm supposed to show 28 player's cards win/loss statements in 28 different names and claim I financed all that?
Yes, it would be the truth but ummm, talk about opening cans of worms.
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Who says you have to show that?
And didnt you say there's no law against playing on someone else's card?
And why can't you have a business financing other players (WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO)?
If that isn't a bonafide business, what is?
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonDarkoz you can manage a team of people using other people's cards but you don't know if you file as a professional gambler and dont keep track of how you even file your taxes?
SMH.
Well, you're probably not filing as a professional gambler because if you were youd be keeping different records than most people including simple expenses as mileage to different casinos.
And that $60,000 seed money....
Never mind.
link to original post
You are probably right.
However I did state up thread that I probably overpay on my taxes.
EDIT: One issue with such itemizing would be providing proof if during an audit of my $60,000 investment, etc
I'm supposed to show 28 player's cards win/loss statements in 28 different names and claim I financed all that?
Yes, it would be the truth but ummm, talk about opening cans of worms.
link to original post
Who says you have to show that?
And didnt you say there's no law against playing on someone else's card?
And why can't you have a business financing other players (WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO)?
If that isn't a bonafide business, what is?
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I'm not worried about the law. That's on my side.
But I don't need the IRS snooping around. Asking questions.
Yes these are my losses on other people's cards.
And then comes why? And then comes where my profits come from (other people's offers). And then comes names of Casinos.
And then comes Casinos getting phone calls.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonDarkoz you can manage a team of people using other people's cards but you don't know if you file as a professional gambler and dont keep track of how you even file your taxes?
SMH.
Well, you're probably not filing as a professional gambler because if you were youd be keeping different records than most people including simple expenses as mileage to different casinos.
And that $60,000 seed money....
Never mind.
link to original post
You are probably right.
However I did state up thread that I probably overpay on my taxes.
EDIT: One issue with such itemizing would be providing proof if during an audit of my $60,000 investment, etc
I'm supposed to show 28 player's cards win/loss statements in 28 different names and claim I financed all that?
Yes, it would be the truth but ummm, talk about opening cans of worms.
link to original post
Who says you have to show that?
And didnt you say there's no law against playing on someone else's card?
And why can't you have a business financing other players (WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO)?
If that isn't a bonafide business, what is?
link to original post
I'm not worried about the law. That's on my side.
But I don't need the IRS snooping around. Asking questions.
Yes these are my losses on other people's cards.
And then comes why? And then comes where my profits come from (other people's offers). And then comes names of Casinos.
And then comes Casinos getting phone calls.
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With so many fears how do you get out of bed in the morning? More realistically how do you continue your enterprise?
Relax... that's not what the IRS does. You're being paranoid.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonDarkoz you can manage a team of people using other people's cards but you don't know if you file as a professional gambler and dont keep track of how you even file your taxes?
SMH.
Well, you're probably not filing as a professional gambler because if you were youd be keeping different records than most people including simple expenses as mileage to different casinos.
And that $60,000 seed money....
Never mind.
link to original post
You are probably right.
However I did state up thread that I probably overpay on my taxes.
EDIT: One issue with such itemizing would be providing proof if during an audit of my $60,000 investment, etc
I'm supposed to show 28 player's cards win/loss statements in 28 different names and claim I financed all that?
Yes, it would be the truth but ummm, talk about opening cans of worms.
link to original post
Who says you have to show that?
And didnt you say there's no law against playing on someone else's card?
And why can't you have a business financing other players (WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO)?
If that isn't a bonafide business, what is?
link to original post
I'm not worried about the law. That's on my side.
But I don't need the IRS snooping around. Asking questions.
Yes these are my losses on other people's cards.
And then comes why? And then comes where my profits come from (other people's offers). And then comes names of Casinos.
And then comes Casinos getting phone calls.
link to original post
With so many fears how do you get out of bed in the morning? More realistically how do you continue your enterprise?
Relax... that's not what the IRS does. You're being paranoid.
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I avoid fears by avoiding the direct contact
I have a fear of falling so I don't go parachuting.
The problem with saying that's not what the IRS does is you just don't know. It might not even be to cause me problems
Perhaps they call the casino to verify my documents are legit. How would that conversation go?
But I would probably say that police don't make it a habit of contacting Casinos to notify them of advantage player's. AND YET I have BOLO's from the NJ state troopers telling Casinos there are no charges against me but be aware I am in the area
There have been stories of police called and they force AP's to hand over ID to the casino.
When it comes to authorities (and the IRS are tax authorities), I Don't put anything past them. They "feel" they are doing the right thing by siding with Casinos.
If you're content doing what you've been doing then keep doing it.
Quote: darkozI avoid fears by avoiding the direct contact
I have a fear of falling so I don't go parachuting.
The problem with saying that's not what the IRS does is you just don't know. It might not even be to cause me problems
Perhaps they call the casino to verify my documents are legit. How would that conversation go?
But I would probably say that police don't make it a habit of contacting Casinos to notify them of advantage player's. AND YET I have BOLO's from the NJ state troopers telling Casinos there are no charges against me but be aware I am in the area
There have been stories of police called and they force AP's to hand over ID to the casino.
When it comes to authorities (and the IRS are tax authorities), I Don't put anything past them. They "feel" they are doing the right thing by siding with Casinos.
link to original post
Hey, darkoz: After reading and trying to digest your multicarding AP business, I am truly impressed and know that there is no way the vast majority of wannabees could ever do what you do. For me, you are truly unique. Now having said that, if, and it is a huge if, I were in your business to that extent, I would make virtually all my income tax free with the only exception of winnings that actually produced W2G's.
1. The income from 30 or so cards of free play is not documented to the IRS because that income with very few exceptions might amount to say $800/week/card and no W2G's to the tune of $20k.
2. My "crew" is paid in cash. Those individuals are NOT independent contractors and would not receive 1099's. That would be part of the lure of being in the "crew," i.e., tax free $$. The last thing I would want is to issue 1099's so they would have to file their income to the IRS, and we would all have to pay additional self-employment and Medicare taxes to the tune of about 18%.
3. My personal tax filing would NOT be as a "professional gambler" because of the scrutiny the IRS can bring down on my revenue streams plus the additional self-employment and Medicare taxes that I would be liable for.
4. One might find glitches to this plan, but I believe such could be overcome with the proper planning.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: darkozI avoid fears by avoiding the direct contact
I have a fear of falling so I don't go parachuting.
The problem with saying that's not what the IRS does is you just don't know. It might not even be to cause me problems
Perhaps they call the casino to verify my documents are legit. How would that conversation go?
But I would probably say that police don't make it a habit of contacting Casinos to notify them of advantage player's. AND YET I have BOLO's from the NJ state troopers telling Casinos there are no charges against me but be aware I am in the area
There have been stories of police called and they force AP's to hand over ID to the casino.
When it comes to authorities (and the IRS are tax authorities), I Don't put anything past them. They "feel" they are doing the right thing by siding with Casinos.
link to original post
Hey, darkoz: After reading and trying to digest your multicarding AP business, I am truly impressed and know that there is no way the vast majority of wannabees could ever do what you do. For me, you are truly unique. Now having said that, if, and it is a huge if, I were in your business to that extent, I would make virtually all my income tax free with the only exception of winnings that actually produced W2G's.
1. The income from 30 or so cards of free play is not documented to the IRS because that income with very few exceptions might amount to say $800/week/card and no W2G's to the tune of $20k.
2. My "crew" is paid in cash. Those individuals are NOT independent contractors and would not receive 1099's. That would be part of the lure of being in the "crew," i.e., tax free $$. The last thing I would want is to issue 1099's so they would have to file their income to the IRS, and we would all have to pay additional self-employment and Medicare taxes to the tune of about 18%.
3. My personal tax filing would NOT be as a "professional gambler" because of the scrutiny the IRS can bring down on my revenue streams plus the additional self-employment and Medicare taxes that I would be liable for.
4. One might find glitches to this plan, but I believe such could be overcome with the proper planning.
tuttigym
link to original post
I agree with number 3.
As for not filing, one if my main arguments as an advantage Player multicarding is that it isn't illegal. I can't go to jail for multicarding the way I do it (with player's permission).
I am fear free of going to jail for multicarding in the casino.
I adhere to the same practice outside the casino. I obey the law, pay my taxes and live fear free of going to jail
Quote: ChumpChangeDark Oz says free play isn't allowed on video poker and video blackjack games among others that have even money bets in his area. He'd have to be putting money in machines that have W-2G eligible jackpots. How many W-2G forms get filled out by his players and how that worked for him are just confusing to me. His players have to remove the players card when the hand pay comes around and hope the slot attendant doesn't open up the diagnostics screen in the machine to reveal a player's card associated with the time frame of the jackpot winning. So who gets the W-2G form? The guy who pushed the button? Dark Oz will have to reimburse them for the tax liability.
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darkoz has already addressed those concerns. Basically, if a crew member gets a W2G, he pays the taxes and pockets the winnings. He schools his crew members to remove the players card before the attendant gets there or they also can tell the attendant that the card was already in the machine. There is more but it is all doable.
tuttigym
Quote: darkozQuote: tuttigymQuote: darkozI avoid fears by avoiding the direct contact
I have a fear of falling so I don't go parachuting.
The problem with saying that's not what the IRS does is you just don't know. It might not even be to cause me problems
Perhaps they call the casino to verify my documents are legit. How would that conversation go?
But I would probably say that police don't make it a habit of contacting Casinos to notify them of advantage player's. AND YET I have BOLO's from the NJ state troopers telling Casinos there are no charges against me but be aware I am in the area
There have been stories of police called and they force AP's to hand over ID to the casino.
When it comes to authorities (and the IRS are tax authorities), I Don't put anything past them. They "feel" they are doing the right thing by siding with Casinos.
link to original post
Hey, darkoz: After reading and trying to digest your multicarding AP business, I am truly impressed and know that there is no way the vast majority of wannabees could ever do what you do. For me, you are truly unique. Now having said that, if, and it is a huge if, I were in your business to that extent, I would make virtually all my income tax free with the only exception of winnings that actually produced W2G's.
1. The income from 30 or so cards of free play is not documented to the IRS because that income with very few exceptions might amount to say $800/week/card and no W2G's to the tune of $20k.
2. My "crew" is paid in cash. Those individuals are NOT independent contractors and would not receive 1099's. That would be part of the lure of being in the "crew," i.e., tax free $$. The last thing I would want is to issue 1099's so they would have to file their income to the IRS, and we would all have to pay additional self-employment and Medicare taxes to the tune of about 18%.
3. My personal tax filing would NOT be as a "professional gambler" because of the scrutiny the IRS can bring down on my revenue streams plus the additional self-employment and Medicare taxes that I would be liable for.
4. One might find glitches to this plan, but I believe such could be overcome with the proper planning.
tuttigym
link to original post
I agree with number 3.
As for not filing, one if my main arguments as an advantage Player multicarding is that it isn't illegal. I can't go to jail for multicarding the way I do it (with player's permission).
I am fear free of going to jail for multicarding in the casino.
I adhere to the same practice outside the casino. I obey the law, pay my taxes and live fear free of going to jail
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I was NOT suggesting that you do NOT pay your taxes. I was stating what I would do and basically have no fear of the IRS for various reasons since there would be no documentation from casinos to the IRS for the vast majority of free play winnings.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: darkozQuote: tuttigymQuote: darkozI avoid fears by avoiding the direct contact
I have a fear of falling so I don't go parachuting.
The problem with saying that's not what the IRS does is you just don't know. It might not even be to cause me problems
Perhaps they call the casino to verify my documents are legit. How would that conversation go?
But I would probably say that police don't make it a habit of contacting Casinos to notify them of advantage player's. AND YET I have BOLO's from the NJ state troopers telling Casinos there are no charges against me but be aware I am in the area
There have been stories of police called and they force AP's to hand over ID to the casino.
When it comes to authorities (and the IRS are tax authorities), I Don't put anything past them. They "feel" they are doing the right thing by siding with Casinos.
link to original post
Hey, darkoz: After reading and trying to digest your multicarding AP business, I am truly impressed and know that there is no way the vast majority of wannabees could ever do what you do. For me, you are truly unique. Now having said that, if, and it is a huge if, I were in your business to that extent, I would make virtually all my income tax free with the only exception of winnings that actually produced W2G's.
1. The income from 30 or so cards of free play is not documented to the IRS because that income with very few exceptions might amount to say $800/week/card and no W2G's to the tune of $20k.
2. My "crew" is paid in cash. Those individuals are NOT independent contractors and would not receive 1099's. That would be part of the lure of being in the "crew," i.e., tax free $$. The last thing I would want is to issue 1099's so they would have to file their income to the IRS, and we would all have to pay additional self-employment and Medicare taxes to the tune of about 18%.
3. My personal tax filing would NOT be as a "professional gambler" because of the scrutiny the IRS can bring down on my revenue streams plus the additional self-employment and Medicare taxes that I would be liable for.
4. One might find glitches to this plan, but I believe such could be overcome with the proper planning.
tuttigym
link to original post
I agree with number 3.
As for not filing, one if my main arguments as an advantage Player multicarding is that it isn't illegal. I can't go to jail for multicarding the way I do it (with player's permission).
I am fear free of going to jail for multicarding in the casino.
I adhere to the same practice outside the casino. I obey the law, pay my taxes and live fear free of going to jail
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I was NOT suggesting that you do NOT pay your taxes. I was stating what I would do and basically have no fear of the IRS for various reasons since there would be no documentation from casinos to the IRS for the vast majority of free play winnings.
tuttigym
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The issue comes when you wish to spend or reinvest.
I have invested rather detrimentally (that is for another thread) in a stock or two about a hundred grand. I wouldn't want to be doing that without proof of income and taxes paid.
I spent a lot of money on vacations and vintage comics and other collectibles, pinball machines, home theaters, etc, etc.
Better to dot my I and cross my T.
Quote: darkozThe issue comes when you wish to spend or reinvest.
I have invested rather detrimentally (that is for another thread) in a stock or two about a hundred grand. I wouldn't want to be doing that without proof of income and taxes paid.
I spent a lot of money on vacations and vintage comics and other collectibles, pinball machines, home theaters, etc, etc.
Better to dot my I and cross my T.
I understand the reluctance. For me, there are ways to legally invest and spend conservatively without calling attention especially the spending part. Thanks for indulging my fantasy.
tuttigym
One needs great discipline and structure to be successful at this particular Area of AP. I’ve seen guys make a half million and blow it gamble on slots or in the pit because they feel invincible I guess.
$15 @ Red Rock got $8.50
Quote: SeedvalueI keep thinking Alan is using the word Enterprise when describing Darkoz crew insinuating it’s a criminal enterprise. Hopefully that’s not what he’s doing
One needs great discipline and structure to be successful at this particular Area of AP. I’ve seen guys make a half million and blow it gamble on slots or in the pit because they feel invincible I guess.
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Many businesses are described as enterprises.
I think there is a notable vehicle rental concern, and numerous entrepreneurs use the term to describe their organizations as they expand.
I do not read any implied malice with the use of the term, but I'm happy to accept correction of my interpretation.
Quote: SeedvalueI keep thinking Alan is using the word Enterprise when describing Darkoz crew insinuating it’s a criminal enterprise. Hopefully that’s not what he’s doing
From now on I'll refer to it as an Organization.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: SeedvalueI keep thinking Alan is using the word Enterprise when describing Darkoz crew insinuating it’s a criminal enterprise. Hopefully that’s not what he’s doing
From now on I'll refer to it as an Organization.
link to original post
Just call us the crew.
Quote: DieterQuote: SeedvalueI keep thinking Alan is using the word Enterprise when describing Darkoz crew insinuating it’s a criminal enterprise. Hopefully that’s not what he’s doing
One needs great discipline and structure to be successful at this particular Area of AP. I’ve seen guys make a half million and blow it gamble on slots or in the pit because they feel invincible I guess.
link to original post
Many businesses are described as enterprises.
I think there is a notable vehicle rental concern, and numerous entrepreneurs use the term to describe their organizations as they expand.
I do not read any implied malice with the use of the term, but I'm happy to accept correction of my interpretation.
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Really that’s how a business works interesting I didn’t know…
Criminal enterprise had been used by casinos to describe AP teams in the past. That and fraud so I was just wondering if Alan was slightly trolling.
The crab cake mall casino there 86ed many members of my enterprise with those exact words. Just because they set up a few games incorrectly. So I guess I’m a little sensitive.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: SeedvalueI keep thinking Alan is using the word Enterprise when describing Darkoz crew insinuating it’s a criminal enterprise. Hopefully that’s not what he’s doing
From now on I'll refer to it as an Organization.
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Just call us the crew.
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Very good.
By the way, I think I was one of the first -- if not THE FIRST -- to painstakingly go thru the Nevada statutes to report that using someone else's players card in Nevada is not a crime.
I used to get good offers from Caesars. A couple years ago, they flew me to Lake Tahoe and made me feel like a high roller. Then I stiffed them during a comp stay at Paris. At the time, I felt like taking a hiatus from gambling so I didn't give them any action. They downgraded me to comp stays only at lower-tier properties and want me to pay the resort fee. I think our relationship is over.
I'm trying to maintain platinum with MGM, which is hard work under the new formula. Casinos are getting plenty of business these days from non-comped tourists, so they don't feel the need to be especially generous toward players. If we fall into a deep recession next year, the offers might improve.
When times are good the comps and offers flow freely.
Comps are designed to entice players into the Casinos.
When times are hard on a casino here is what I have observed.
First the Casino gets super stingy, and tight with their comps. They feel they are already losing money, they can't afford to hand out freebies.
Usually they are doing poorly because customers aren't showing up. So why would getting stingy with offers help their bottom line? Now people really aren't coming.
Usually one of their competition sees this and offers really good comps to steal the customers and hammer in that last nail.
Then someone realizes what is happening and does the smart move and actually OVER compensates, delivering fantastic offers.
Then they get the business back. And of course a bunch of advantage player's and so the cycle of life continues.
So bottom line, Casinos hand out offers both when times are bad and when times are good. All based on their customer retention.
Quote: ChumpChangeWith the Fed raising interest rates to 3.25%-3.50%, maybe casinos can get off their 0.1% comp return game, same with banks.
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Put your money in government I bonds. Currently pay 9.62% guaranteed. Sadly, can only put $10k a year per person.
Just look at room rates. When times are good, they go up. When times are bad, they go down. When the market value of rooms is low, casinos are going to be more willing to offer them as comps for marginal players. For weekend stays, room rates typically jump, so casinos are going to be more selective about who gets comped. Times are better for casinos on weekends and worse for offers to players.
I had $15 of free play at Red Rock today and I cashed out $11 on Bonus Poker.
Quote: JackSpadeThink about it Alan, a typical player's action isn't going to mean much to a thriving five-star property on the strip that generates lots of revenue from food, beverage, entertainment, conventions, etc. A player would be comped more generously by a struggling off-strip casino that needs action. And when the high-end properties see big drops in non-gaming revenue, then they will have to do more to attract players.
Just look at room rates. When times are good, they go up. When times are bad, they go down. When the market value of rooms is low, casinos are going to be more willing to offer them as comps for marginal players. For weekend stays, room rates typically jump, so casinos are going to be more selective about who gets comped. Times are better for casinos on weekends and worse for offers to players.
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Then why are online sports promotions and casino sign up bonuses significantly less then years past ?
If only someone had years and years of new member offers at casinos to compare and see if there was a correlation. Like a casino missed earnings stock goes down and the same casino lowered free play offers a few months prior. If only
There are two schools of thought in regards to marketing spend. One is to spend more in down times to acquire customers. The other is to cut cost because it’s the easiest thing to get rid of to boost the bottom line.
In the short run facing a down quarter and a potential miss it’s seems most casinos do indeed cut marketing. This does not mean the casino keeps those offers Low and I’m in agreement with Oz that eventually it bounces back better then before. I’m simply pointing out there may be a small window of opportunity one could capitalize on in the market using marketing budget cuts as a leading indicator.
IMO if it comes down to a suit’s bonus or some free play I’m betting the free play goes away rather quickly.
Its just a theory I’m not a trader or market expert. It just was pointed out to me that I had accumulated a bunch of marketing data by accident over the years, and maybe there was a small edge to be had in that info.
Then again Maybe not idk but I was successful on a few trades for rather small amounts.’ Nothing to prove my theory one way or another.
Quote: DRichAs one that set up free play promotions for casinos, we did not raise or lower our promotions based on the prosperity of the casino. We would initially set the promo amounts a little higher than typical at the start of a new promotion, but the deciding factor was always the number of players in each tier. For example, we may set an amount of $2000 free play a week for the top five players, $1000 a week for the next 15 best players, and so forth. In our case your offers may go up or down based on your play relative to the other players. So even if you consistently played $25k a month your offer may go up or down from $200 a week to $50 a week depending on what others are playing.
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That's interesting but I don't believe that's done anymore. Of course there may be some places that do it that way.
IMO, that would be a lousy way to piss off customers.
High roller gets $200 a week. Does same play and gets dropped to $50 because a bunch of other players affected his offers?
$15 played on Bonus with $1 seed money required.
Cashed out $15 for a $14 net win.
In October free play stays at $15 for six times. No free play at tables.
My final $5 of free play at Suncoast is on Friday Sept 30th. I don't know if I'll be nearby to claim it.
Suncoast is keeping my $5 of free play thru October which I think is amazing since they get no table play from me.
They did expand their craps hours to 24 hours on Friday and Saturday nights. But the table closes around midnight on weekdays.
I prefer weekdays around 4am so no play for me at Suncoast. I wonder when the $5:free play will finally end?
