Smoking to Resume in June (AC)

Quote: Mission146

My opinions on State Governments forcing non-smoking in casinos (particularly in states where smoking has historically been permitted) here:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/smoking-or-non-smoking/
link to original post

Excellent article, my one issue (not really even an issue, more of a caveat in many States including the two primary ones being discussed) is this phrase:
"The fact of the matter is this: If smoking continues to decline in popularity, not counting vaping, as it has, then eventually casinos will simply go non-smoking totally on their own, or in the alternative, will eventually restrict people who want to smoke to the small areas of the casino that were once reserved for adamant non-smokers. In the meantime, however, right or wrong, the casinos seem to think it wouldn’t be in their best interests."

In many States Vapes/Ecigs are considered "smoking" (under smoking regulations), so if Casinos go smoke free (by law) they would also be forced to go Vape free.
This is not the case in all States, but many (I think most now), including New Jersey and Nevada:

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/resources/us-e-cigarette-regulations-50-state-review/nv
"Use of electronic smoking device included in definition of “smoking” (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(12)(n) (2022)) and prohibited in places of employment and places open to the public (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(1)-(2) (2022)), with some exceptions, including areas of casinos where minors are prohibited, and age-restricted businesses, among some other private places (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(3) (2022)).

Use of vapor products prohibited within any procedure area of an invasive body decoration establishment.
Nev. Admin. Code § 444.00849(1) (2022)"

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/resources/us-e-cigarette-regulations-50-state-review/nj
"Use of electronic smoking device included in definition of “smoking” (N.J. Stat. Ann. §§ 26:3D-57), and prohibited in same spaces smoking prohibited, including: indoor public places, workplaces, public parks and beaches (26:3D-58); with some exceptions (26:3D-59); and restricted in lodging establishments (26:3D–60) (2022).

Children’s Group Homes must prohibit use of electronic smoking devices by children and staff sale/distribution of such devices to children.
N.J. Admin. Code § 3A:56-4.6 (2022)

Use of electronic cigarettes prohibited in Atlantic City International Airport similar to smoking.
N.J. Admin. Code § 19:76-4.3 (2022) "



It may seem minor, and the laws were no doubt originally well-intentioned, but the issue with tying vaping into your smoking bans is that as vaping use grows, it will continue to force people to oppose smoking bans on vaping ability alone, even if we get to the point where virtually nobody smokes (smoking meaning combustible tobacco products).

And, casinos will no doubt want to future proof themselves by continuing to ensure people can vape long after smoking has essentially ended (which still won't be for some time) which will mean continuing to oppose smoking bans (even if their policy is to only allow vapes).

Which means adding vaping numbers to smoking numbers can be important and should not be discounted (in the context of seeing who would oppose such bans if they knew it effected vaping). When you count vaping as smoking, a solid 20% of the country (probably more since its hard to come by reliable vaping stats and they are less established than smoking stats) are "smokes" (by legal definition), and my guess is vaping will continue to grow.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/237818/young-people-adopt-vaping-smoking-rate-plummets.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/26/vaping-survey-data-roundup/

Quote: Gandler

Quote: Mission146

My opinions on State Governments forcing non-smoking in casinos (particularly in states where smoking has historically been permitted) here:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/smoking-or-non-smoking/
link to original post

Excellent article, my one issue (not really even an issue, more of a caveat in many States including the two primary ones being discussed) is this phrase:
"The fact of the matter is this: If smoking continues to decline in popularity, not counting vaping, as it has, then eventually casinos will simply go non-smoking totally on their own, or in the alternative, will eventually restrict people who want to smoke to the small areas of the casino that were once reserved for adamant non-smokers. In the meantime, however, right or wrong, the casinos seem to think it wouldn’t be in their best interests."

In many States Vapes/Ecigs are considered "smoking" (under smoking regulations), so if Casinos go smoke free (by law) they would also be forced to go Vape free.
This is not the case in all States, but many (I think most now), including New Jersey and Nevada:

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/resources/us-e-cigarette-regulations-50-state-review/nv
"Use of electronic smoking device included in definition of “smoking” (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(12)(n) (2022)) and prohibited in places of employment and places open to the public (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(1)-(2) (2022)), with some exceptions, including areas of casinos where minors are prohibited, and age-restricted businesses, among some other private places (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(3) (2022)).

Use of vapor products prohibited within any procedure area of an invasive body decoration establishment.
Nev. Admin. Code § 444.00849(1) (2022)"

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/resources/us-e-cigarette-regulations-50-state-review/nj
"Use of electronic smoking device included in definition of “smoking” (N.J. Stat. Ann. §§ 26:3D-57), and prohibited in same spaces smoking prohibited, including: indoor public places, workplaces, public parks and beaches (26:3D-58); with some exceptions (26:3D-59); and restricted in lodging establishments (26:3D–60) (2022).

Children’s Group Homes must prohibit use of electronic smoking devices by children and staff sale/distribution of such devices to children.
N.J. Admin. Code § 3A:56-4.6 (2022)

Use of electronic cigarettes prohibited in Atlantic City International Airport similar to smoking.
N.J. Admin. Code § 19:76-4.3 (2022) "



It may seem minor, and the laws were no doubt originally well-intentioned, but the issue with tying vaping into your smoking bans is that as vaping use grows, it will continue to force people to oppose smoking bans on vaping ability alone, even if we get to the point where virtually nobody smokes (smoking meaning combustible tobacco products).

And, casinos will no doubt want to future proof themselves by continuing to ensure people can vape long after smoking has essentially ended (which still won't be for some time) which will mean continuing to oppose smoking bans (even if their policy is to only allow vapes).

Which means adding vaping numbers to smoking numbers can be important and should not be discounted (in the context of seeing who would oppose such bans if they knew it effected vaping). When you count vaping as smoking, a solid 20% of the country (probably more since its hard to come by reliable vaping stats and they are less established than smoking stats) are "smokes" (by legal definition), and my guess is vaping will continue to grow.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/237818/young-people-adopt-vaping-smoking-rate-plummets.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/26/vaping-survey-data-roundup/
link to original post

Thank you for the compliment!

I appreciate the caveat and was not aware of that. I think the reason that I hadn't realized that is that many places with prominent, "No Smoking," signs sometimes seem not to mind if people vape, and elsewhere, you see, "No Smoking or Vaping," signs, at least around me. It honestly hadn't occurred to me that some states would have passed laws to forbid indoor vaping already, or alternatively, tied same into smoking.

I also like your point that the vapors might oppose No Smoking regulations on the grounds that it might cause them not to be able to vape. Had I done research into these laws, as I should have and neglected to do, that would have been a good point to also bring up; of course, I can't guarantee I would have thought of that angle.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: Gandler

Quote: Mission146

My opinions on State Governments forcing non-smoking in casinos (particularly in states where smoking has historically been permitted) here:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/smoking-or-non-smoking/
link to original post

Excellent article, my one issue (not really even an issue, more of a caveat in many States including the two primary ones being discussed) is this phrase:
"The fact of the matter is this: If smoking continues to decline in popularity, not counting vaping, as it has, then eventually casinos will simply go non-smoking totally on their own, or in the alternative, will eventually restrict people who want to smoke to the small areas of the casino that were once reserved for adamant non-smokers. In the meantime, however, right or wrong, the casinos seem to think it wouldn’t be in their best interests."

In many States Vapes/Ecigs are considered "smoking" (under smoking regulations), so if Casinos go smoke free (by law) they would also be forced to go Vape free.
This is not the case in all States, but many (I think most now), including New Jersey and Nevada:

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/resources/us-e-cigarette-regulations-50-state-review/nv
"Use of electronic smoking device included in definition of “smoking” (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(12)(n) (2022)) and prohibited in places of employment and places open to the public (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(1)-(2) (2022)), with some exceptions, including areas of casinos where minors are prohibited, and age-restricted businesses, among some other private places (Nev. Rev. Stat. § 202.2483(3) (2022)).

Use of vapor products prohibited within any procedure area of an invasive body decoration establishment.
Nev. Admin. Code § 444.00849(1) (2022)"

https://www.publichealthlawcenter.org/resources/us-e-cigarette-regulations-50-state-review/nj
"Use of electronic smoking device included in definition of “smoking” (N.J. Stat. Ann. §§ 26:3D-57), and prohibited in same spaces smoking prohibited, including: indoor public places, workplaces, public parks and beaches (26:3D-58); with some exceptions (26:3D-59); and restricted in lodging establishments (26:3D–60) (2022).

Children’s Group Homes must prohibit use of electronic smoking devices by children and staff sale/distribution of such devices to children.
N.J. Admin. Code § 3A:56-4.6 (2022)

Use of electronic cigarettes prohibited in Atlantic City International Airport similar to smoking.
N.J. Admin. Code § 19:76-4.3 (2022) "



It may seem minor, and the laws were no doubt originally well-intentioned, but the issue with tying vaping into your smoking bans is that as vaping use grows, it will continue to force people to oppose smoking bans on vaping ability alone, even if we get to the point where virtually nobody smokes (smoking meaning combustible tobacco products).

And, casinos will no doubt want to future proof themselves by continuing to ensure people can vape long after smoking has essentially ended (which still won't be for some time) which will mean continuing to oppose smoking bans (even if their policy is to only allow vapes).

Which means adding vaping numbers to smoking numbers can be important and should not be discounted (in the context of seeing who would oppose such bans if they knew it effected vaping). When you count vaping as smoking, a solid 20% of the country (probably more since its hard to come by reliable vaping stats and they are less established than smoking stats) are "smokes" (by legal definition), and my guess is vaping will continue to grow.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/237818/young-people-adopt-vaping-smoking-rate-plummets.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/26/vaping-survey-data-roundup/
link to original post

Thank you for the compliment!

I appreciate the caveat and was not aware of that. I think the reason that I hadn't realized that is that many places with prominent, "No Smoking," signs sometimes seem not to mind if people vape, and elsewhere, you see, "No Smoking or Vaping," signs, at least around me. It honestly hadn't occurred to me that some states would have passed laws to forbid indoor vaping already, or alternatively, tied same into smoking.

I also like your point that the vapors might oppose No Smoking regulations on the grounds that it might cause them not to be able to vape. Had I done research into these laws, as I should have and neglected to do, that would have been a good point to also bring up; of course, I can't guarantee I would have thought of that angle.
link to original post

Those signs are company policy. Some casinos are fine with people vaping in non-smoking areas and some are not. However, if "smoking" (as defined in NJ and NV) was banned in casinos (By State Law), vaping would not be allowed anywhere. The lack of smoking bans allows casinos to set up their floors and specific areas of the casino in ways that their customers prefer (no smoking or vaping, no smoking but vaping allowed, no restrictions, etc...)

My guess is if smoking (and hence vaping) was banned in major casino States a lot of people would just go back to chewing and dipping on casinos floors, and some people (my guess is the same people complaining about seeing people smoke) would probably complain about this as well, even though smokeless tobacco use by others has zero impact on your health. The only argument against dipping at the table is if somebody finds it "gross" which is a poor argument.

A 10/15/22 article in the Las Vegas Review-Journal reports on casino employees' uphill battle to get smoking banned in Vegas. This part caught my eye:

Quote: LVRJ

Gaming consultant Andrew Klebanow’s C3 Gaming issued a report in June saying his research finds no connection between a smoking ban and revenue loss.

“Data from multiple jurisdictions clearly indicates that banning smoking no longer causes a dramatic drop in gaming revenue,” the report says. “In fact, non-smoking properties appear to be performing better than their counterparts that continue to allow smoking."

I wondered about possible bias from Klebanow/C3 which I hadn't heard of before. I looked up their website and first found this:

Quote: C3 Gaming

In addition to the 157 properties [we studied] that no longer permit indoor smoking, a large number of casinos have dramatically reduced the amount of gaming space where smoking is permitted. Many have simply flipped their space allocation, converting former non-smoking areas into smoking zones. Those zones often include areas that were walled off from the main gaming floor, essentially pushing smokers to the back of the casino. Not surprisingly, those newly designated smoking zones have performed at rates similar to what they did when they were non-smoking areas. This lends credence to the belief that location, mix of games, and isolation from the main gaming floor all play an important role in machine performance – and not smoking policy.

Their website also has this article which notes that historical data showed that in the past, smoking bans would have indeed hurt revenues, but modern data suggest that smoking bans would actually increase revenues. Their admission about how past data showed an opposite effect makes them appear credible to me. That, and the hard data in the article I linked.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: Gandler

For example (per this list) there are zero non-smoking casinos in NJ, and only six in Nevada.
link to original post

Again, there aren't really six non-smoking casinos in Nevada, because they're counting bars (which can't have more than 15 machines, like convenience stores), and the Reno Airport. Really, it's only Park MGM (Vegas) and Fernley Nugget (Fernley), and the Fernley Nugget is tiny.
link to original post

No convenience stores in Nevada allow smoking and also no grocery stores. The grocery stores took nearly a 70% decrease in play when they lost smokers.

Quote: DRich

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: Gandler

For example (per this list) there are zero non-smoking casinos in NJ, and only six in Nevada.
link to original post

Again, there aren't really six non-smoking casinos in Nevada, because they're counting bars (which can't have more than 15 machines, like convenience stores), and the Reno Airport. Really, it's only Park MGM (Vegas) and Fernley Nugget (Fernley), and the Fernley Nugget is tiny.
link to original post

No convenience stores in Nevada allow smoking and also no grocery stores. The grocery stores took nearly a 70% decrease in play when they lost smokers.
link to original post

Ceck out the 7-11 on DI and Easter. I don't know if it's the case anymore, but the owner said F it and instructed his employees to not bother smokers who were playing machines.