Coronavirus math
Quote: rawtuffPointless to whom though. Wearing a mask in particular is primarily an act of social responsibility to all others, not to yourself. It protects others from you and they protect you from their selves when wearing one.
Taiwan beat the virus
They did not lower the curve, they eliminated the virus
Everybody wears masks in Taiwan
Nobody in Taiwan is pro virus
Quote: terapinedTaiwan beat the virus
They did not lower the curve, they eliminated the virus
Everybody wears masks in Taiwan
Nobody in Taiwan is pro virus
New Zealand and Australia crushed it too. Not quite eliminated. but well on the way..
Quote: OnceDearNew Zealand and Australia crushed it too. Not quite eliminated. but well on the way..
exactly
The roadmap to defeat the virus is right there
Why look to Europe.
Every country took a different approach.
We should not compare this great country to countries that have done the worse against the virus
We should be looking to the best and brightest govts that have defeated the virus
We should be looking at Taiwan, New Zealand and Australia for the answers and not compare ourselves to Europe.
The economies that defeats the virus will become the economic leaders of the planet that will have the highest standard of living on the planet.
My cousin in Taiwan eats out all the time. So convenient
I never eat in a restaurant, too dangerous
The roadmap to success or failure is everywhere: We have over 6 months rich data to look back over for every country in the world.Quote: terapinedexactly
The roadmap to defeat the virus is right there
Why look to Europe.
Every country took a different approach.
We should not compare this great country to countries that have done the worse against the virus
We should be looking to the best and brightest govts that have defeated the virus
We should be looking at Taiwan, New Zealand and Australia for the answers and not compare ourselves to Europe.
The economies that defeats the virus will become the economic leaders of the planet that will have the highest standard of living on the planet.
My cousin in Taiwan eats out all the time. So convenient
I never eat in a restaurant, too dangerous
There are available rankings for every measure of infection for every culture and every country. If I wanted to get on top of this virus, I'd short circuit direct research of the virus itself and adopt whatever practices have been shown to beat it and try to avoid practices that have been shown to make matters worse. No need to feel guilty about copying my neighbours homework if it's already been marked 9/10.
If we all self isolated individually for the life cycle of the disease, say 3 weeks, then the virus would be EXTINCT at the end of those three weeks. Obviously that's not possible, but much simpler measures have been proven to drive down the infection growth rate negative. Isolating at household level goes a long way towards the same end. Reproduction rate only needs to be just below 1 for eventual success. But it NEEDS to be <1
Why does US media so rarely mention the Reproduction rate, R? Countries that concentrate national focus on that seem to have an edge to varying extent.
http://oncedear.com/R.jpg
Can we / should we spray on it in bold "Beware of the brick wall"Quote: billryanThe best part about arguing with a brick wall is you can move on with your life, experience all sorts of kool stuff and whenever you chose to waste more of your time, the brick wall will still be there, just where you left it.
Quote: OnceDear
Your graph would be a much more informative image than the current COVID-19 logo:
One problem with the U.S. is that "shutdowns" here were not as stringent or as long as in other countries that got a handle on the virus. So people act like the U.S. "locked down" when, by international definition, we did no such thing.
Finally, I wanted to mention that way back in March, Michael Osterholm, who is on Biden's virus team, said that he saw the virus as taking between 250,000 and 850,000 American lives. He based that not just on the virus, but on what he saw as the likely president and citizen response. People were so taken aback by his predictions that it took weeks for CNN and other outlets to start featuring him.
Quote: redietzAn initial comprehensive lockdown of 70-90 days, like New Zealand's, would have almost eliminated the virus. Now that the virus is being spread more in familial settings, shutting or locking down will have less immediate effect than it would have had initially.
The thing is we cannot do that. Life has to go on. Really, probably 40-60% of people are essential to keeping things going. And as has been pointed out before, do you want to lose a few less lives in a lockdown only to lose more in the ensuing depression?
Life has to keep moving.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe thing is we cannot do that. Life has to go on. Really, probably 40-60% of people are essential to keeping things going. And as has been pointed out before, do you want to lose a few less lives in a lockdown only to lose more in the ensuing depression?
Life has to keep moving.
Can you please point to any statistical scientific evidence that more people (more than 250,000 which have died to date from the virus) would have committed suicide due to a lockdown?
Quote: billryanThe best part about arguing with a brick wall is you can move on with your life, experience all sorts of kool stuff and whenever you chose to waste more of your time, the brick wall will still be there, just where you left it.
The bad part is we could have a series of concussions and CTE outbreak from folks insisting on banging their head against it repeatedly.
Quote: darkozCan you please point to any statistical scientific evidence that more people (more than 250,000 which have died to date from the virus) would have committed suicide due to a lockdown?
Sure, whenever someone posts how masks are saving millions of lives.
See, you do not see the problems of the lockdowns. But you have to be blind to think there is no negative effect.
The fact is people do not want to be locked down. The fact that more and more people go places and do things shows this. You need to deal with the reality that the only way to "beat" the virus is herd immunity and people will die as that happens.
If the lockdown and mask crowd was alive during WWII we would be posting this in German or Japanese.
Quote: darkozCan you please point to any statistical scientific evidence that more people (more than 250,000 which have died to date from the virus) would have committed suicide due to a lockdown?
To be fair you’re playing “gotcha” games with the way you’re framing the questions, they’re not framed in a way to consider a valid counter if one was proposed. There have been studies of increased rates of depression, you can debate the cause of that, and students performing quite poorly online particularly those who can’t afford outside tutoring.
These are all value judgments with people wanting to impose their personal values on others, pulling out the death card is usually meant to stop anyone from expressing another opinion.
Quote: AZDuffmanSure, whenever someone posts how masks are saving millions of lives.
See, you do not see the problems of the lockdowns. But you have to be blind to think there is no negative effect.
The fact is people do not want to be locked down. The fact that more and more people go places and do things shows this. You need to deal with the reality that the only way to "beat" the virus is herd immunity and people will die as that happens.
If the lockdown and mask crowd was alive during WWII we would be posting this in German or Japanese.
Done
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
Your turn!
Quote: darkozCan you please point to any statistical scientific evidence that more people (more than 250,000 which have died to date from the virus) would have committed suicide due to a lockdown?
I devoted three separate blog entries to exploring, defining, discussing and debunking the "Equivalent Deaths Debate" in May and June. When you actually assign numbers to things like depression, suicides, and so on, you learn a few things.
https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/05/weighing-scales-of-death.html
https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/05/the-equivalent-deaths-debate-part-two.html
https://theskepticalgambler.blogspot.com/2020/06/exploring-equi-death-arguments-part.html
. Of course. I have said from the beginning the statistic that would be most valuable in determining the ‘badness’ of the virus is “years of life lost”. So if 100 90 year olds who NOT INCLUDING COVID -19 had a life expectancy of 2 years each, and they all died quickly of COVID-19, the virus would be responsible for 200 life-years lost. Equivalent to if 3 healthy 15 year olds died of something else. People quote trauma deaths as a fraction of COVID-19 deaths. I wouldn’t be surprised if life-years lost is still more with trauma than COVID-19. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do all reasonable things to limit the spread of COVID-19. But adds some perspective.Quote: DeMangoWould not a sizable percentage of these preexisting conditions nursing home deaths have occurred anyway?
Quote: unJonThe amount of confirmation bias in this thread from all directions is astounding.
In that case, I can't think of a better quote than, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
- Benjamin Franklin.
Everything about this pandemic screams how much a pound of cure costs in finance and lives, That's my confirmation bias, when people complain they can't be bothered with investment in preventive methods.
Quote: rxwineIn that case, I can't think of a better quote than, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
- Benjamin Franklin.
Everything about this pandemic screams how much a pound of cure costs in finance and lives, That's my confirmation bias, when people complain they can't be bothered with investment in preventive methods.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
Quote: RogerKint"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
That one is interesting because it is never used in the context that Franklin used it. You might even say it means the opposite of what you'd expect.
Quote: RogerKint"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
1). He wasn't referring to the effects of plague.
2) A bit ironic to say when people in Africa were running and fighting for their liberty were being overpowered and enslaved
Quote: rxwineThat one is interesting because it is never used in the context that Franklin used it. You might even say it means the opposite of what you'd expect.
Thanks for this. Very interesting 10 minute internet rabbit hole this sent me down.
While the economic toll is yet to be calculated- and may never accurately be. What do we need in place going forward in preparation for the next major disease? A focus on mental health would seem agreeable to both sides who feel countermeasures were either too extreme or not extreme enough? Societal unity behind a common cause would also seem optimal?
Specific to this forum; where would DO and AZ find common ground?
Did, would, could UBI help weather the storm? While we could have been NZ, SK, UK, GE, AU, CH, RU or any number of countries and approaches where did they fail and or succeed both in mortality and economically? While this has been one wild ride that is nowhere near over... there is much to be learned here.
Bump from March 30th...Quote: DeMangoA great post by UnJon, followed by this garbage. Listen to The President, deaths top out in two weeks. Let's see who is right.
We found out who was right.
Quote: LVJackal
Specific to this forum; where would DO and AZ find common ground?
When the Pandemic started in April I was (perhaps surprisingly) an AZ Sider.
I refused to wear masks, walked right through the nearly empty port authority in NYC with no mask, didn't want to be bothered with the cleaning/sanitizer thing(Not beyond normal situation protocol of course).
Then, a close friend died or covid in two weeks time. The ambulance sirens never stopped for days at the height of the Pandemic. Other friends of mine reported family members dying.
Perhaps (and sadly) that is the only means for common ground. For AZ to literally be affected directly by the virus in losing friends and family.
Perhaps that isn't enough either. I suppose some people out there don't even give a crap about their own family and friends but I hope AZ would have the epiphany I had.
Perhaps that's why I go so strongly in my back and forth with him. Because I would spare others of the mistakes I have made
Quote: RogerKint"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
Correct! What scares me is not the virus itself but the reactions people have had to it. Willing to give up so much in the name of "safety" or "prevention" or whatever. Blind hate towards those who refuse to lock down in fear. All over something that has killed less than 0.1% of the population and 90% of those deaths were because of aggravated previous health conditions.
And they keep demanding more restrictions on themselves and then think what a great idea it would be if we kept so many of them. Yeah, I want to go to a casino and sit with plexiglass all around me when this is over.
I am glad that if it had to happen it happened at the age I am now. Old enough to really learn from all of this but still have a couple decades to put what we have learned to good use. But what I have learned is not encouraging me as to where our society stands.
Quote: darkozWhen the Pandemic started in April I was (perhaps surprisingly) an AZ Sider.
I refused to wear masks, walked right through the nearly empty port authority in NYC with no mask, didn't want to be bothered with the cleaning/sanitizer thing(Not beyond normal situation protocol of course).
Then, a close friend died or covid in two weeks time. The ambulance sirens never stopped for days at the height of the Pandemic. Other friends of mine reported family members dying.
Perhaps (and sadly) that is the only means for common ground. For AZ to literally be affected directly by the virus in losing friends and family.
Perhaps that isn't enough either. I suppose some people out there don't even give a crap about their own family and friends but I hope AZ would have the epiphany I had.
Perhaps that's why I go so strongly in my back and forth with him. Because I would spare others of the mistakes I have made
Thanks for your honesty
I really appreciate anybody taking this virus seriously regardless of past opinions.
Quote: darkoz
(snipped to save space)
Perhaps that isn't enough either. I suppose some people out there don't even give a crap about their own family and friends but I hope AZ would have the epiphany I had.
Perhaps that's why I go so strongly in my back and forth with him. Because I would spare others of the mistakes I have made
It comes down to I do not let my life be controlled by what I cannot control. I have not known someone who has died from it and no "sirens" going by in my neck of the woods. But even if it does take someone I know I am not going to take up the "why didn't we do more" mantra. I will accept that things happen.
Nearest thing I can compare is my grandfather. He committed suicide by gun. Not only have I not taken up an anti-gun "we could have stopped this!" position, but my mother still has the gun which one day will go to probably my brother or myself. As my brother told the cops, "yes we want the gun back, it is a nice gun." (NOTE: Protocol was if death by gun even a suicide the cops take and keep the gun for a period, in this case IIRC just a few days until any possibility of foul play is ruled out.)
[BELOW NOT TO BE MEANT AS POLITICAL, MANAGEMENT PLEASE REMOVE OR ASK ME TO REMOVE IF I AM VIOLATING ANY RULES]
One thing I am observing is how people take this relates to if they are atheist or not. With a couple exceptions I am seeing the more atheist someone is the more afraid of the virus they are and the more they think "something could have been done!" Those who believe in a higher power are more taking it the way I have done so, though they are not on forums about it. IOW, we believe that nature is going to throw us some curveballs and you deal with them. Life is risk and when your number is up your number is up. it is up,
If you are anti-religion you can call the higher power "mother nature" if you like. The point being that mankind cannot just wish a virus away. We have to deal with it and live with it. Eventually, herd immunity is going to happen, it always has before. If it does not happen and we go extinct, well, we had a good run. Some other species will pick up and clean up the mess we made here.
[END REMOVE IF VIOLATING]
So it is not about "not giving a crap." It is about recognizing reality. Yeah, reality bites sometimes. When it is all over I will either be dead or spending last Sunday of the month at the bounty hunter poker tournament. But I would rather be able to play in that tournament than be locked down in the name of, well, whatever.
Quote: OnceDearCan we / should we spray on it in bold "Beware of the brick wall"
"Hey, everybody!" you hear someone holler at a party. "WATCH THIS!"
You have a sure bet that someone is about to do something really dumb when you hear that. And, Florida is hollering, "Watch this!" as it continues its "C-virus is gone and economy is open" pandemic plan. But, the scaled-back number of state government employees crafted over the last 10 years left agencies with few staff redundancies. Agency staff are having to do more and more with less and less, including less support from senior management. With never-ending workloads and increasing pressure from management dissatisfied with agency C-virus data, burned-out staff leave and new staff are hired. But, qualified applicants are few.
For example, Florida is about to hire a new C-virus program manager. As this article explains, the candidate in question, Kyle Lamb of Columbus, Ohio, even admits to having no relevant experience except for having a blog where he disses masks, social distancing, and "lockdowns" by whatever name. Yup, this guy will now handle processing of Florida's C-virus data. And, as best I can tell from what the Governor is saying, this new, unstoppable state effort will make short work of those bricks.
"Hey, everybody! WATCH THIS!"
to be honest, if you would have quoted Chump Change, you and I would now be dead.Quote: UP84Bump from March 30th...Quote: DeMangoA great post by UnJon, followed by this garbage. Listen to The President, deaths top out in two weeks. Let's see who is right.
We found out who was right.
Quote: LuckyPhow"Hey, everybody!" you hear someone holler at a party. "WATCH THIS!"
You have a sure bet that someone is about to do something really dumb when you hear that. And, Florida is hollering, "Watch this!" as it continues its "C-virus is gone and economy is open" pandemic plan. But, the scaled-back number of state government employees crafted over the last 10 years left agencies with few staff redundancies. Agency staff are having to do more and more with less and less, including less support from senior management. With never-ending workloads and increasing pressure from management dissatisfied with agency C-virus data, burned-out staff leave and new staff are hired. But, qualified applicants are few.
For example, Florida is about to hire a new C-virus program manager. As this article explains, the candidate in question, Kyle Lamb of Columbus, Ohio, even admits to having no relevant experience except for having a blog where he disses masks, social distancing, and "lockdowns" by whatever name. Yup, this guy will now handle processing of Florida's C-virus data. And, as best I can tell from what the Governor is saying, this new, unstoppable state effort will make short work of those bricks.
"Hey, everybody! WATCH THIS!"
It's not that there aren't qualified people for the job, it's that the Florida gov. wanted this person. Just like a radiologist was added to the CVtask force not because he was the best qualified, but rather because he said what someone wanted to hear.
Quote: billryanQuote: LuckyPhow"Hey, everybody!" you hear someone holler at a party. "WATCH THIS!"
You have a sure bet that someone is about to do something really dumb when you hear that. And, Florida is hollering, "Watch this!" as it continues its "C-virus is gone and economy is open" pandemic plan. But, the scaled-back number of state government employees crafted over the last 10 years left agencies with few staff redundancies. Agency staff are having to do more and more with less and less, including less support from senior management. With never-ending workloads and increasing pressure from management dissatisfied with agency C-virus data, burned-out staff leave and new staff are hired. But, qualified applicants are few.
For example, Florida is about to hire a new C-virus program manager. As this article explains, the candidate in question, Kyle Lamb of Columbus, Ohio, even admits to having no relevant experience except for having a blog where he disses masks, social distancing, and "lockdowns" by whatever name. Yup, this guy will now handle processing of Florida's C-virus data. And, as best I can tell from what the Governor is saying, this new, unstoppable state effort will make short work of those bricks.
"Hey, everybody! WATCH THIS!"
It's not that there aren't qualified people for the job, it's that the Florida gov. wanted this person. Just like a radiologist was added to the CVtask force not because he was the best qualified, but rather because he said what someone wanted to hear.
Its kind of frustrating that some Governors are playing a numbers game.
The only true number the governors cannot avoid and truly represents the scope of the pandemic
Hospital capacity
Once you get to the 100% mark, it's no doubt a crisis and a number a Governor just can't ignore.
Quote: AZDuffmanIt comes down to I do not let my life be controlled by what I cannot control. I have not known someone who has died from it and no "sirens" going by in my neck of the woods. But even if it does take someone I know I am not going to take up the "why didn't we do more" mantra. I will accept that things happen.
Nearest thing I can compare is my grandfather. He committed suicide by gun. Not only have I not taken up an anti-gun "we could have stopped this!" position, but my mother still has the gun which one day will go to probably my brother or myself. As my brother told the cops, "yes we want the gun back, it is a nice gun." (NOTE: Protocol was if death by gun even a suicide the cops take and keep the gun for a period, in this case IIRC just a few days until any possibility of foul play is ruled out.)
[BELOW NOT TO BE MEANT AS POLITICAL, MANAGEMENT PLEASE REMOVE OR ASK ME TO REMOVE IF I AM VIOLATING ANY RULES]
One thing I am observing is how people take this relates to if they are atheist or not. With a couple exceptions I am seeing the more atheist someone is the more afraid of the virus they are and the more they think "something could have been done!" Those who believe in a higher power are more taking it the way I have done so, though they are not on forums about it. IOW, we believe that nature is going to throw us some curveballs and you deal with them. Life is risk and when your number is up your number is up. it is up,
If you are anti-religion you can call the higher power "mother nature" if you like. The point being that mankind cannot just wish a virus away. We have to deal with it and live with it. Eventually, herd immunity is going to happen, it always has before. If it does not happen and we go extinct, well, we had a good run. Some other species will pick up and clean up the mess we made here.
[END REMOVE IF VIOLATING]
So it is not about "not giving a crap." It is about recognizing reality. Yeah, reality bites sometimes. When it is all over I will either be dead or spending last Sunday of the month at the bounty hunter poker tournament. But I would rather be able to play in that tournament than be locked down in the name of, well, whatever.
It's not about being afraid vs being unafraid/believing in a higher power. It really is way simpler than that, having a common sense about reality really.
Eventually everyone's coming to this conclusion even the dumbest ones when they get enough lived experience. That is all there is to it. You do what you can to help others and by extension yourself in a given situation. Playing brave/rebel is a boring and psychologically self harming way to go through life opposite to what you're led to believe.
Quote: rawtuff
It's not about being afraid vs being unafraid/believing in a higher power. It really is way simpler than that, having a common sense about reality really.
And that is where I am coming from. 99.5% survival rate after a 2-3% infection rate. Reality is that my chances of losing everything to a lockdown depression is higher than my risk if I just act sensible but not afraid.
That creates people upset that I live in a way they are afraid to. It is a bit like people who do not enter the corporate world and do something simple, like a series of side hustles. The corporate drones can't believe someone lives like that, so carefree. Some even hate the person for not "living right." I have seen this happen. Another example is the especially women who would call in to The Tom Leykis show. They would get upset he and other guys did not want to be married and say things like "you are going to die alone!"
Response is of course that we all face death alone.
But I am drifting off subject. In summary some of us are not going to conform just to conform. And that drives the conformists insane.
Quote: AZDuffman
That creates people upset that I live in a way they are afraid to. .
It’s not a harmless activity with all the people like you running around spreading the virus. Hospitals can fill up unnecessarily because people can get denied access to care for other things, not just the virus.
At least then we could have a measured infection rate, that we can manage.
Quote: AZDuffmanIn summary some of us are not going to conform just to conform. And that drives the conformists insane.
I of course see your point about nonconformity principle as a legit consequence of thinking critically, but I think you're giving too much credit to nonconformism to the point where it becomes self indulgent and biased way of thinking and too little credit to those who will conform due to wit about how things actually work in life and are coming from that very background of critical thinking.
99.5% survival rate is, one, an unbased statement and two, kinda irrelevant. Being sick with pneumonia for several weeks alone is already a huge burden on yourself, your family and the society as a whole nevermind the long lasting damage and years of life expectancy taken away from you. Increasing your (and all those around you) chances of postponing/avoiding it until better meds/vaccines are available and reducing the stress on the HCS and economics is a no brainer doing your part basic stuff. If everyone was to not conform to basic duties like paying your taxes or doing your best to prevent diseases spread there can be no rule of law society at all. No one is asking us to stop living our lives for good.
It's just a common sense situation.
Quote: rxwineIt’s not a harmless activity with all the people like you running around spreading the virus. Hospitals can fill up unnecessarily because people can get denied access to care for other things, not just the virus.
At least then we could have a measured infection rate, that we can manage.
How can I be spreading a virus I do not have?
Quote: AZDuffmanHow can I be spreading a virus I do not have?
That was the exact retort a friend of mine gave to their employees when asked why doesn't he bother wearing a mask inside his store right about a week before he developed symptoms of C19. Several of his close environment workers became ill with it a few days later as well, now he is wondering who will run his store, go figure.
Quote: rawtuffLet us all collectively go jump of a bridge then by that logic.
I am in if the rest of you are.
Quote: rawtuffThat was the exact retort a friend of mine gave to their employees when asked why doesn't he bother wearing a mask inside his store right about a week before he developed symptoms of C19. Several of his close environment workers became ill with it a few days later as well, now he is wondering who will run his store, go figure.
The beauty of it is if he dies he doesn't have to worry about it.
Quote: rawtuffLet us all collectively go jump of a bridge then by that logic.
Wiz doesn’t usually do his superbowl prop suggestions until late January or so, but if they try to make some indefinite stay at home order again I might be willing to join in on a bridge jump.
Quote: DRichThe beauty of it is if he dies he doesn't have to worry about it.
Made me chuckle, not gonna lie.
Quote: AZDuffmanHow can I be spreading a virus I do not have?
By getting infected from someone who does have it and not knowing for 2 weeks.
Have you even listened to anything about how the virus works?
Or do you believe you have immunity?
Quote: darkozBy getting infected from someone who does have it and not knowing for 2 weeks.
Have you even listened to anything about how the virus works?
Or do you believe you have immunity?
By AZD's logic, the virus should never have spread because at one point last fall, no one in the country had it. Pure nonsense from him, even after all these months and all of his predictions being blown out of the water.
Van Halen wrote a song about that!Quote: rawtuffLet us all collectively go jump of a bridge then by that logic.
Quote: darkozBy getting infected from someone who does have it and not knowing for 2 weeks.
Have you even listened to anything about how the virus works?
Or do you believe you have immunity?
I have said what I believe many times on here.
The whole of today's society comes down to people just wanting to live a normal live vs. people wanting to hide at home.
Kind of a joke since wishing death on a user is not considered a reason for suspension.
Quote: AZDuffmanI have said what I believe many times on here.
The whole of today's society comes down to people just wanting to live a normal live vs. people wanting to hide at home.
Kind of a joke since wishing death on a user is not considered a reason for suspension.
You said many things but didn't answer the question.
You asked why you need to wear a mask to protect other people from getting covid if you don't have covid.
I described the mechanism of covid (that you could catch it and not know for two weeks while spreading it)
I then asked why you feel this can't happen to you. I asked if you feel you have some type of immunity.
It seems from your indirect answer that you don't feel immune. You actually know it's possible to be a carrier and through your actions to spread the virus.
And you just don't care who you infect!
I know you feel that way because you believe everyone has to "live life" and everyone "faces death" and blah blah blah but it seems a bit disingenuous for you to be making such a decision for everyone else. Especially when the closures and mask rules are demonstrating that the majority of people are not on your side with this.
That's why you made a ridiculous claim. "How can I give someone Covid when I don't have it". Because if you were to go around spreading the disease it makes you look not like a non-conformist but like a, hmmm, a bad word.
So without skirting the answer, why do you feel you cannot catch covid and subsequently spread the disease especially since your actions (hosting parties with no mask, etc) make you high risk?
