Thread Rating:

rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 9958
Thanks for this post from:
unJon
November 14th, 2020 at 1:06:59 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin



That one is interesting because it is never used in the context that Franklin used it. You might even say it means the opposite of what you'd expect.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 247
  • Posts: 7790
November 14th, 2020 at 3:00:42 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin



1). He wasn't referring to the effects of plague.

2) A bit ironic to say when people in Africa were running and fighting for their liberty were being overpowered and enslaved
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 2362
November 14th, 2020 at 4:19:51 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

That one is interesting because it is never used in the context that Franklin used it. You might even say it means the opposite of what you'd expect.



Thanks for this. Very interesting 10 minute internet rabbit hole this sent me down.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
LVJackal
LVJackal
Joined: Jun 1, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 85
Thanks for this post from:
SOOPOO
November 14th, 2020 at 4:52:19 AM permalink
Back to the math: assuming our vaccine(s) work, and lets assume 400,000 dead in the US, can be nice and go with 300,000 or whatever number you choose. It will have taken science 12-24 months to overcome a quite nasty worldwide virus! This is remarkable! How can we improve? Where did we as individuals and society fail or succeed? And what do we do in the future to be better equipped?

While the economic toll is yet to be calculated- and may never accurately be. What do we need in place going forward in preparation for the next major disease? A focus on mental health would seem agreeable to both sides who feel countermeasures were either too extreme or not extreme enough? Societal unity behind a common cause would also seem optimal?

Specific to this forum; where would DO and AZ find common ground?

Did, would, could UBI help weather the storm? While we could have been NZ, SK, UK, GE, AU, CH, RU or any number of countries and approaches where did they fail and or succeed both in mortality and economically? While this has been one wild ride that is nowhere near over... there is much to be learned here.
UP84
UP84
Joined: May 22, 2012
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 138
Thanks for this post from:
tringlomane
November 14th, 2020 at 6:13:51 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

A great post by UnJon, followed by this garbage. Listen to The President, deaths top out in two weeks. Let's see who is right.

Bump from March 30th...
We found out who was right.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 247
  • Posts: 7790
Thanks for this post from:
OnceDearrawtufftringlomane
November 14th, 2020 at 6:14:48 AM permalink
Quote: LVJackal



Specific to this forum; where would DO and AZ find common ground?



When the Pandemic started in April I was (perhaps surprisingly) an AZ Sider.

I refused to wear masks, walked right through the nearly empty port authority in NYC with no mask, didn't want to be bothered with the cleaning/sanitizer thing(Not beyond normal situation protocol of course).

Then, a close friend died or covid in two weeks time. The ambulance sirens never stopped for days at the height of the Pandemic. Other friends of mine reported family members dying.

Perhaps (and sadly) that is the only means for common ground. For AZ to literally be affected directly by the virus in losing friends and family.

Perhaps that isn't enough either. I suppose some people out there don't even give a crap about their own family and friends but I hope AZ would have the epiphany I had.

Perhaps that's why I go so strongly in my back and forth with him. Because I would spare others of the mistakes I have made
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 224
  • Posts: 12332
November 14th, 2020 at 6:21:17 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin



Correct! What scares me is not the virus itself but the reactions people have had to it. Willing to give up so much in the name of "safety" or "prevention" or whatever. Blind hate towards those who refuse to lock down in fear. All over something that has killed less than 0.1% of the population and 90% of those deaths were because of aggravated previous health conditions.

And they keep demanding more restrictions on themselves and then think what a great idea it would be if we kept so many of them. Yeah, I want to go to a casino and sit with plexiglass all around me when this is over.

I am glad that if it had to happen it happened at the age I am now. Old enough to really learn from all of this but still have a couple decades to put what we have learned to good use. But what I have learned is not encouraging me as to where our society stands.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
  • Threads: 86
  • Posts: 5783
Thanks for this post from:
Hunterhill
November 14th, 2020 at 6:39:20 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

When the Pandemic started in April I was (perhaps surprisingly) an AZ Sider.

I refused to wear masks, walked right through the nearly empty port authority in NYC with no mask, didn't want to be bothered with the cleaning/sanitizer thing(Not beyond normal situation protocol of course).

Then, a close friend died or covid in two weeks time. The ambulance sirens never stopped for days at the height of the Pandemic. Other friends of mine reported family members dying.

Perhaps (and sadly) that is the only means for common ground. For AZ to literally be affected directly by the virus in losing friends and family.

Perhaps that isn't enough either. I suppose some people out there don't even give a crap about their own family and friends but I hope AZ would have the epiphany I had.

Perhaps that's why I go so strongly in my back and forth with him. Because I would spare others of the mistakes I have made


Thanks for your honesty
I really appreciate anybody taking this virus seriously regardless of past opinions.
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 224
  • Posts: 12332
Thanks for this post from:
SanchoPanza
November 14th, 2020 at 6:40:21 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



(snipped to save space)

Perhaps that isn't enough either. I suppose some people out there don't even give a crap about their own family and friends but I hope AZ would have the epiphany I had.

Perhaps that's why I go so strongly in my back and forth with him. Because I would spare others of the mistakes I have made



It comes down to I do not let my life be controlled by what I cannot control. I have not known someone who has died from it and no "sirens" going by in my neck of the woods. But even if it does take someone I know I am not going to take up the "why didn't we do more" mantra. I will accept that things happen.

Nearest thing I can compare is my grandfather. He committed suicide by gun. Not only have I not taken up an anti-gun "we could have stopped this!" position, but my mother still has the gun which one day will go to probably my brother or myself. As my brother told the cops, "yes we want the gun back, it is a nice gun." (NOTE: Protocol was if death by gun even a suicide the cops take and keep the gun for a period, in this case IIRC just a few days until any possibility of foul play is ruled out.)

[BELOW NOT TO BE MEANT AS POLITICAL, MANAGEMENT PLEASE REMOVE OR ASK ME TO REMOVE IF I AM VIOLATING ANY RULES]

One thing I am observing is how people take this relates to if they are atheist or not. With a couple exceptions I am seeing the more atheist someone is the more afraid of the virus they are and the more they think "something could have been done!" Those who believe in a higher power are more taking it the way I have done so, though they are not on forums about it. IOW, we believe that nature is going to throw us some curveballs and you deal with them. Life is risk and when your number is up your number is up. it is up,

If you are anti-religion you can call the higher power "mother nature" if you like. The point being that mankind cannot just wish a virus away. We have to deal with it and live with it. Eventually, herd immunity is going to happen, it always has before. If it does not happen and we go extinct, well, we had a good run. Some other species will pick up and clean up the mess we made here.

[END REMOVE IF VIOLATING]

So it is not about "not giving a crap." It is about recognizing reality. Yeah, reality bites sometimes. When it is all over I will either be dead or spending last Sunday of the month at the bounty hunter poker tournament. But I would rather be able to play in that tournament than be locked down in the name of, well, whatever.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 670
November 14th, 2020 at 8:51:44 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Can we / should we spray on it in bold "Beware of the brick wall"



"Hey, everybody!" you hear someone holler at a party. "WATCH THIS!"

You have a sure bet that someone is about to do something really dumb when you hear that. And, Florida is hollering, "Watch this!" as it continues its "C-virus is gone and economy is open" pandemic plan. But, the scaled-back number of state government employees crafted over the last 10 years left agencies with few staff redundancies. Agency staff are having to do more and more with less and less, including less support from senior management. With never-ending workloads and increasing pressure from management dissatisfied with agency C-virus data, burned-out staff leave and new staff are hired. But, qualified applicants are few.

For example, Florida is about to hire a new C-virus program manager. As this article explains, the candidate in question, Kyle Lamb of Columbus, Ohio, even admits to having no relevant experience except for having a blog where he disses masks, social distancing, and "lockdowns" by whatever name. Yup, this guy will now handle processing of Florida's C-virus data. And, as best I can tell from what the Governor is saying, this new, unstoppable state effort will make short work of those bricks.

"Hey, everybody! WATCH THIS!"

  • Jump to: