Thread Rating:

AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 154
  • Posts: 20272
September 23rd, 2021 at 9:38:00 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: MDawg

Quote: AlanMendelson

I have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.

A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.

But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.

Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.

On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.

The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.

  • link to original post


    Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.

    But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.
  • link to original post

    So you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.
  • link to original post



    im not necessarily on anyones side here but... how much are comps in general ACTUALLY worth compared to what the price is? You can give someone lets say a 100 dollar meal comp but they only paid like 5 dollars total for the meal ingredients and the fraction of the 100 dollars that might go to paying the chef that tiny sliver of time to cook the meal - or something like that
  • link to original post

    No real side here, I know casino have and will do this at times and even better. I used to get 20% back.

    I just don't think it's that simple or some formula you can count on. Heck, I have lost 10+ quickly on games with much higher house advantages at locations and it's like pulling teeth to get a normal room and normal meal. Obviously, if you have some decent history with a location and they are fairly confident they will make up for over comping a few quick loss comps, I have no doubt they will.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    MDawg
    MDawg
    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    • Threads: 34
    • Posts: 4822
    September 23rd, 2021 at 9:52:04 AM permalink
    Heatmap, are you asking what the actual value of comps are?

    Well, let's look at just the three biggest - ROOM, FOOD, BEVERAGE (RFB).

    Room:
    Yes, one might say that a room that sits empty versus one that is occupied costs the hotel only housekeeping, supplies, utility costs, etc. to maintain the room while occupied, but what about the construction cost of the hotel, the "sunk" costs to build the room and make it fit for occupation? Here, I calculated that the top resorts on the Strip have spent over a million dollars per room average cost to build the resort in the first place. Resorts World Vegas, the new kid on the block, just put in average $1.3M per room to build their hotel.

    Now, those figures aren't exact and don't figure in non-hotel room square footage such as common areas, nightclubs, restaurants, bars, spas and convention use spaces, etc., but still - any hotel has a mortgage - debt - and needs to recover that debt. So until the mortgage is paid off, the cost of a room is not solely related to its use and maintenance, but to how much it cost to build it.

    Therefore, saying that an empty room costs the hotel only housekeeping and maintenance costs, is simplistic.

    Food and Beverage:
    Similarly, how much does it cost to open a restaurant? I'd say that a Vegas restaurant might cost millions to build within a casino, and then the restaurant is either operated by the casino or leased to it. And it definitely costs money to operate a restaurant. In cases where the restaurant is not owned by the casino, the casino has to cut a check for each meal comp'ed, not simply provide it and write it off at cost.

    So, if you look at our little problem along them lines,

    you might drop the argument that the cost of a given comp'ed item is merely its "ingredients."

    Now, if you're getting at what is the value of the comp to the casino player - well, there are in fact people who stay in Vegas casino resorts who do not gamble or do not get much if any comps, and simply pay cash for everything. I see more people than you would expect bust out a credit card to pay for lavish meals at these Vegas restaurants, which implies that they are paying cash out of pocket for everything.

    Is a thousand dollar a night suite worth a thousand dollars? Is a Japanese Kobe Wagyu steak at SW or Majordomo worth $75. / ounce? Is the fish at Milo, flown in daily from the Mediterranean, worth $60. - $80. / pound? I would say that Vegas Strip hotel rooms are more expensive than non-Strip rooms, and that Vegas casino restaurants are more expensive than off-Strip non-casino restaurants, but that's not to say that there aren't Los Angeles or New York City hotel rooms or restaurants that are just as, if not much more expensive.

    I've always felt that the reason a shot of Louis XIII or an even more expensive Cognac is as much as it is in a Vegas casino bar or restaurant is so that the player being comp'ed might really feel like he is getting something for his play, but then - there are non-gamblers who come in and pay for the same, in cash, so there are people who think such extravagance is worth spending on straight up.
    Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 23, 2021
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    billryan
    billryan
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    • Threads: 217
    • Posts: 13347
    September 23rd, 2021 at 10:13:28 AM permalink
    Quote: heatmap

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AlanMendelson

    I have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.

    A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.

    But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.

    Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.

    On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.

    The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.

  • link to original post


    Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.

    But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.
  • link to original post

    So you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.
  • link to original post



    im not necessarily on anyones side here but... how much are comps in general ACTUALLY worth compared to what the price is? You can give someone lets say a 100 dollar meal comp but they only paid like 5 dollars total for the meal ingredients and the fraction of the 100 dollars that might go to paying the chef that tiny sliver of time to cook the meal - or something like that
  • link to original post



    By sitting you at a table and comping your meal, the restaurant loses the $100 cash customer that otherwise would have occupied that table. There is so much more to factor in to a cost of a meal than the ingredients and the chefs salary.
    The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
    darkoz
    darkoz
    Joined: Dec 22, 2009
    • Threads: 272
    • Posts: 9698
    September 23rd, 2021 at 10:34:43 AM permalink
    It's threads like this that make me understand how I am so far ahead of everyone else in my AP multi-carding skills.

    You guys trying to figure out stuff I already know is hilarious.

    I suspect Axel already knows but is acting coy to avoid drawing attention while still participating.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    MDawg
    MDawg
    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    • Threads: 34
    • Posts: 4822
    September 23rd, 2021 at 10:45:01 AM permalink
    You do slots - slots have a high house edge and are for big casino losers. The casino bottom line is benefitted from slots players. You're not benefitting from COMPS, what you are doing has nothing to do with comps, does it? You're working on free play which is a form of comps I suppose.

    As far as how table games comps and comps in general are calculated, what I posted in the first post - 10% of actual, 35-40% of theoretical, is the way it is. Period. But - hosts will give longtime players some leeway.

    Put it this way? What's the biggest COMP you ever got for a single trip? Mine would be - about a quarter million dollars worth, over the past six months. That's just RFB + spa, doesn't include rebates/concessions, promotional chips and special events, gifts, Visa gift cards, casino dollars with which to buy consumer goods, etc.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    MDawg
    MDawg
    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    • Threads: 34
    • Posts: 4822
    Thanks for this post from:
    RogerKintMichaelBluejay
    September 23rd, 2021 at 10:54:30 AM permalink
    What I don't like is that these threads move along nicely, and then someone, in this case DarkOz, comes along with a "I already know better than everyone else." And then the threads turn into the typical WOV peeing matches.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    darkoz
    darkoz
    Joined: Dec 22, 2009
    • Threads: 272
    • Posts: 9698
    Thanks for this post from:
    odiousgambit
    September 23rd, 2021 at 11:02:15 AM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    You do slots - slots have a high house edge and are for big casino losers. The casino bottom line is benefitted from slots players. You're not benefitting from COMPS, what you are doing has nothing to do with comps, does it? You're working on free play which is a form of comps I suppose.

    As far as how table games comps and comps in general are calculated, what I posted in the first post - 10% of actual, 35-40% of theoretical, is the way it is. Period. But - hosts will give longtime players some leeway.

    Put it this way? What's the biggest COMP you ever got for a single trip? Mine would be - about a quarter million dollars worth, over the past six months. That's just RFB + spa, doesn't include rebates/concessions, promotional chips and special events, gifts, Visa gift cards, casino dollars with which to buy consumer goods, etc.

  • link to original post



    I believe most people consider freeplay not just a form of comps but the most important comps one can obtain.

    If you don't consider them comps or want to place Freeplay into a different category then we are in agreement that you get comped better.

    Freeplay is what AP's use to make profit through an advantage.

    What you seem excited about (nothing wrong from a Ploppie pov) is getting treated nice, feeling like a king.

    I get those emotions too when given hotels and RFB and show tickets although ultimately, to me, it's all carrots on a stick.

    Icing on the cake while I profit cash from freeplay.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    darkoz
    darkoz
    Joined: Dec 22, 2009
    • Threads: 272
    • Posts: 9698
    Thanks for this post from:
    Johnzimbo
    September 23rd, 2021 at 11:03:54 AM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    What I don't like is that these threads move along nicely, and then someone, in this case DarkOz, comes along with a "I already know better than everyone else." And then the threads turn into the typical WOV peeing matches.

  • link to original post



    The thread about comps that moved along for two pages discussing who an internet model was in a bikini?
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    billryan
    billryan
    Joined: Nov 2, 2009
    • Threads: 217
    • Posts: 13347
    September 23rd, 2021 at 11:06:41 AM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    What I don't like is that these threads move along nicely, and then someone, in this case DarkOz, comes along with a "I already know better than everyone else." And then the threads turn into the typical WOV peeing matches.

  • link to original post




    You start a thread about how you know more than everyone else, which you simply don't, and then get upset that someone pulls the same nonsense.
    Get over yourself.
    The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    • Threads: 154
    • Posts: 20272
    September 23rd, 2021 at 1:04:49 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    You do slots - slots have a high house edge and are for big casino losers. The casino bottom line is benefitted from slots players. You're not benefitting from COMPS, what you are doing has nothing to do with comps, does it? You're working on free play which is a form of comps I suppose.

    As far as how table games comps and comps in general are calculated, what I posted in the first post - 10% of actual, 35-40% of theoretical, is the way it is. Period. But - hosts will give longtime players some leeway.

    Put it this way? What's the biggest COMP you ever got for a single trip? Mine would be - about a quarter million dollars worth, over the past six months. That's just RFB + spa, doesn't include rebates/concessions, promotional chips and special events, gifts, Visa gift cards, casino dollars with which to buy consumer goods, etc.

  • link to original post

    I'll play and have played just about every standard game in the casino with an advantage. So I just don't play slots.

    For the most part, I wouldn't play for just comps(RFB) unless I was getting some very generous rate I felt was good value, or if I was using it to offset the cost of rooms and food while traveling.

    All games are for big casino losers unless you have an advantage that can be proven via math. If you're betting large amounts on -EV table games you'll end up losing the same amount as people playing slots, it all depends on the betting levels and speed of play.

    A slot can be +EV so it's not just for big losers.

    "The way it is"? So you're telling me that if I hit up 10 different casinos on the strip betting 1 hand of baccarat(or any table game) for 25k, if I won half my bets, and lost half my bets... I would have $12,500 minimum in Comps? And does this include craps while taking odds if you lose?
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

    • Jump to: