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MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
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September 24th, 2021 at 12:26:30 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

They don't comp 10 or 15% of theo, they comp 35 or 40% of theo. Win, lose or draw, that's the way it works.

  • link to original post

    They definitely comp on the theoretical loss; I'm looking for evidence that they might instead comp on actual loss in some cases. Well-known casino authority Henry Tamburin puts the comp percentage for strip casinos at 20-40% of theo, so I use 30% as the default in my Comp Calculator.
    Last edited by: MichaelBluejay on Sep 24, 2021
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    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 12:32:23 PM permalink
    I'll buy off on what MBluejay just posted.

    I have not asked every host at every property where I play, but the ones I have asked have said 10% actual - 35% theo, which is close enough to what MBluejay just posted. One independent host gave me the "up to 40%" theo figure. One of the top top heads of marketing / hosts if not the top host at a major Strip property has said to me that "35% of theo is the norm on the Strip."

    I'll admit I was slightly shocked when I found out that they are comping only 10% of actual loss these days. I always assumed it was 15%, but one of my hosts said NO, and the other said "maybe last year during Covid, not now."
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 12:48:20 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AxelWolf

    He has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't play with an advantage and even went so far as to poopoo those who rely on mathematical advantages to win.

  • link to original post


    Please provide the quotes for when I said that on more than one occasion, no less. Emphases added.



    Quote: darkoz


    For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge.

    Then for about a year he claimed he was an advantage player with a hidden edge he couldn't discuss unless someone wanted to watch him for $50,000 if memory serves.

    Then he described an advantage that involves guessing the flow of the cards, said description not considered an advantage by any literature written on WOO and probably derided as useless systems on your other site.

    Currently he claims to have "perpetual comps" (his words) while never showing any losses to Casinos in essence claiming casinos will comp forever even when a player consistently wins at negative -ev games. No suspicion, no questions (in fact his hosts compliment him on the fact he always wins).

    He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay and he described one trip where the casino said he rated for full RFB but not for freeplay!

  • link to original post



    Please provide quotes to support each of these assertions. You are asserting affirmative claims by me not implied ones, so you should have no problem direct quoting to support what you claim I said. Emphases added.



    Quote: sabre

    It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation. If that manner was +EV, then that poster never alluded to +EV play once. They alluded to -EV play based on progressions, card flow, and other voodoo repeatedly. Dozens of times in fact.

    If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision

    If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.

    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.

    If he's playing +EV and he's encouraging others to pay exorbitant withdrawal fees to play +EV then I honestly have no idea what this whole dog and pony show is about

  • link to original post


    Those are some serious accusations. Please provide the quotes to back up what you claim. You seem to be claiming that I "tell others" to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees. I actually recall writing more than once about advising people never to gamble with money they cannot afford to lose, and also recall stating specifically that once a person is standing in line at the cashier waiting for a cash advance against a credit card, that s/he is in real trouble.



    There is another member here whose posts are blocked to me I logged out and glanced at a few of his posts. Indecipherable: I don't know if it's speak to text problems, or just plain poor grammar but I believe there are statements from that one too that he should back up with direct quotes.



    Quote: Wizard

    Quote: billryan

    Has he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post



    I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.
  • link to original post


    So it's incumbent on me to state that I play with an advantage and describe the advantage, or to state that I play with an advantage?
  • link to original post

    If I recall correctly, either you or one of your cohorts claimed I had said something. When I asked you guys to show a quote where I said it... the response was... you weren't going to pour through pages and thousands of posts in order to find it.

    Also, I'm not 100% sure where you said it. But, it's a no-win situation if you said it on another forum because you guys are just going to complain to the Wizard and have someone suspended for bringing up cross forum drama.

    I'm certain you have said it somewhere and it's been brought up on more than one occasion and you never disputed that and I'm fairly certain you double down.

    Why don't you clear it up? Have you ever said or indicated that you do not play with an advantage?
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 12:59:22 PM permalink
    First off, I don't believe I have ever stated categorically that I do not play with an advantage. Just because I have gotten into the varieties of Baccarat shoes and whether they have contributed to my wins, doesn't mean that I have said that I play without any advantage.

    Secondly, over a year ago I did post either here or at another forum that yes, I play with an advantage.

    Thirdly, I have been posting about playing a fair amount of Blackjack lately and yes I play Blackjack with an advantage. I never gave up Blackjack entirely but I have been playing more Blackjack lately.

    And finally, I wouldn't even go downstairs to sit down and risk large sums of money if I didn't think I would win.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:02:33 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    But something YOU wouldn't pay more than 50% for.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

  • link to original post



    It's true, I wouldn't.

    Using my methods I can achieve obtaining Freeplay for around 20%.

    Paying 50% is paying more for something I can get for less.

    Also if I remember that conversation came out of the Pennsylvania Sands bus rebate where people sold $45 Freeplay for $40. Now that's people buying Freeplay just for a $5 advantage lol.

    (And I felt it was the correct amount there too)
  • link to original post

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?
  • link to original post



    What's a lifetime of freeplay?

    If you mean for the rest of my life I get $10 a week and can get this $520 per year value for $210 a year upfront but I have to play each $10 as I get it, then no, it's not worth it.

    And how do I predict how many years up front I have to pay for? What if I live another thirty years?
  • link to original post

    For argument sake we will assume you have or can get the cash to buy it and there's no risk of the casino pulling any BS. Let's go with 2 million.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    sabre
    sabre
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:05:48 PM permalink
    Ah yes, you claim to be counting spreading $500-$20000 on DD with .5 deck cutoff up and down the strip. Up 100k+ in a matter of weeks. Absolutely no heat.

    Sure.

    Just to be clear, I think the above is absolutely a lie.
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:06:53 PM permalink
    That I have been phoning members advising them to withdraw cash advances at 6% - yes that is false, I have never phoned any WOV member other than the Wizard about anything! I challenge that yes! And besides the fact that I have never phoned any WOV member other than the Wizard, I have never advocated cash advances for gambling, period!

    Indeed, I contend that I have stated specifically that people should gamble responsibly and only with money they may afford to lose. Given time I could find the quote when I said this at WOV. I found it posted it at another forum, right away, but the WOV search function is hard to utilize:
    The moment you find yourself standing in line at the casino cage seeking a credit card cash advance, you might as well accept that you are a compulsive gambler. Time to quit!

    There is also a debit card terminal right at the high limit table to allow withdrawals of up to $2500. is what the pit boss said. That is pretty evil! I suppose the only thing more evil would be a credit card cash advance machine right at the tables.



    The Wizard also asked Sabre to rephrase his comment that I do not play with an edge.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:11:29 PM permalink
    Well... if comps are 30% of theo loss...

    Playing video poker with a 99.2% return the theo loss is 0.8% of coin in.

    30% of 0.8% of coin in is 0.24%

    That's very close to the one-tenth of one percent of play that I was talking about.

    And if you use a comp rate of 15% of theo, then 15% of 0.8% is 0.12% which is darn close to one-tenth of one percent of play.
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:14:54 PM permalink
    If you play high limit table games the average bet x hours x house edge equals a nice theo loss.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:16:21 PM permalink
    Mdawg there are ATMs right at the tables at Red Rock.

    I think many casinos allow debits of $3000 without any added fees.

    At Red Rock they rebate any ATM fees in cash if you have the Chairman card.

    When I played at Caesars as a Seven Stars any ATM fees were rebated in free play vouchers.... but that was four years ago. I dont know what their current policy is.
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:19:26 PM permalink
    I suppose debit card withdrawals without any fees (or close to any fees) would not be bad. But I am sure you would agree that credit card advances are a bad thing and should be avoided, especially in a casino.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:21:37 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    If you play high limit table games the average bet x hours x house edge equals a nice theo loss.

  • link to original post



    I don't play Baccarat or blackjack. Aren't the house edges at those games about 1% or less. So 15% of 1% is 0.15%

    Back to the one-tenth of one percent of play.
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:23:47 PM permalink
    Are we communicating? 35% of theo loss is comp'ed. Are you calculating it at 15%?
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:26:13 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    I suppose debit card withdrawals without any fees (or close to any fees) would not be bad. But I am sure you would agree that credit card advances are a bad thing and should be avoided, especially in a casino.

  • link to original post



    At Red Rock you can use a debit card for up to $3000. The ATM fee is $3.99 I believe.

    If you wanted to take out $5000 for example you must use a cash advance even if it's a debit and not a credit card.

    There are cash advance fees because they exceed the $3000 limit.

    Red Rock rebates those fees.
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:30:13 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Are we communicating? 35% of theo loss is comp'ed. Are you calculating it at 15%?

  • link to original post



    I'm using 15% as a conservative number because it comes darn close to the one-tenth of one percent of play that I've been using.

    I can understand a comp rate of 35% of theo for losing players. I cant believe they'd apply that comp rate to winning players.
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:30:26 PM permalink
    Quote: AlanMendelson



    At Red Rock you can use a debit card for up to $3000. The ATM fee is $3.99 I believe.

    If you wanted to take out $5000 for example you must use a cash advance even if it's a debit and not a credit card.

    There are cash advance fees because they exceed the $3000 limit.

    Red Rock rebates those fees.

  • link to original post


    But the bank starts charging interest the moment a cash advance is withdrawn, and at a higher rate than for purchases. If, we are talking about a credit card that is. All bad.

    If we are talking about a debit card, I have never heard of cash advance fees from a bank for a debit card?? Why would there be "cash advance" fees on a debit card? I don't believe there is any such thing as a cash advance on a debit card in the first place - it is all cash, withdrawn, from your bank. There is no advance.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:31:29 PM permalink
    Quote: AlanMendelson


    I can understand a comp rate of 35% of theo for losing players. I cant believe they'd apply that comp rate to winning players.

  • link to original post


    Well whether you understand or believe it or not, that's the way it is.

    The whole purpose of the two tier comp system is to give 10% of actual loss, 35% of theo loss, whichever ends up higher, to the player.

    They don't tell players "you only get comps if you lose" - all Vegas would be up in arms! nor do they lower or change the theo comp rate percentage depending on whether the player won, lost or drew.

    The whole concept of comps for theo loss is that you are risking those sums at the tables. In exchange for that risk, you are awarded (rewarded with) comps.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:36:10 PM permalink
    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:38:43 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.

  • link to original post


    Wow, AxelWolf and I standing shoulder to shoulder on something. The obstinacy of the Great DarkOz!
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    darkoz
    darkoz
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:46:53 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Your attempt to validate your own argument involves a ridiculous hypothetical about purchasing a lifetime of freeplay. That term alone is nonsensical. I'm in my fifties. I hope to live a few more decades but could die tomorrow so what lifetime are you referring to.

    You quantified it by turning it into two million so I think you are asking would I pay one million dollars for two million in Freeplay.

    I can earn (since that is the term you prefer) five million in freeplay for the same million using my methods so yeah, it wouldn't be smart of me to accept that deal especially if you are saying that's over my lifetime.

    My one million turned into five million in freeplay wouldn't take me a lifetime to play through and make profit.

    Also to make the deal appear to be in your favor you said assume no danger of the casino shutting off offers. Again that is a hypothetical that's unrealistic but to make it fair, then my ability to earn five million in freeplay would also have to be free of any danger of casino renege. So same solution. It's smarter for me to demand a better deal or stick with what I got.

    It sounds as if you believe smart AP's accept any offer as long as there is an edge regardless of how small the edge and regardless of whether their money and time could be better invested elsewhere.

    That doesn't sound so smart to me.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:46:55 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AxelWolf

    DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.

  • link to original post


    Wow, AxelWolf and I standing shoulder to shoulder on something. The obstinacy of the Great DarkOz!
  • link to original post

    For the record I don't think he's dumb. I respect his hustle and believe he is doing well. We don't see eye to eye on certain aspects of disseminating TMI. I haven't given up that fight(1 person at a time), but it's clear in this day and age it's impossible to keep much a secret as there are far too many idiots out there that need to shout it out from the rooftops... look at me, look at me here's what I know and here's how to do it.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:49:23 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    "The way it is"? So you're telling me that if I hit up 10 different casinos on the strip betting 1 hand of baccarat(or any table game) for 25k, if I won half my bets, and lost half my bets... I would have $12,500 minimum in Comps? And does this include craps while taking odds if you lose?
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:50:06 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    darkoz
    darkoz
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:54:08 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    Dieter
    Administrator
    Dieter
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    September 24th, 2021 at 1:55:05 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    Oh no.

    But I could probably pay $20 for your unwanted $100 of freeplay.
    May the cards fall in your favor.
    darkoz
    darkoz
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    September 24th, 2021 at 2:02:35 PM permalink
    To be clear if I lose on average $1000 earning Freeplay I expect $5,000 Freeplay back in return.

    I have gotten way better than that even but it's rare.

    And if opportunity dries up I have accepted worse

    But generally that's the terms I am looking for.

    Paying 50% value of freeplay is a waste if I have my usual operations running.

    There are also other factors involved including ease of realizing the return on the freeplay and/or the value in obtaining it.

    For example with the Sands Bus offer (at least as it was pre-pandemic) the deal was $45 Freeplay for $40.

    That may sound like a rip-off but the people who purchased the offer spent five seconds doing the exchange. Meanwhile the people selling the offer had to spend three hours traveling round trip plus a two hour layover to get the freeplay when stepping off the bus. It was a seller's market.

    So just a blanket statement that anyone should always accept 50% face value isn't a wise statement.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    MDawg
    MDawg
    • Threads: 40
    • Posts: 7530
    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    September 24th, 2021 at 2:11:42 PM permalink
    You didn't quote anything that I said.


    However, betting for a just a couple minutes per casino is not going to get you much theo loss, is it? Sounds like - about twenty minutes of play (2 minutes each @ 10 casinos) at $25,000. average, so yes you'd get 1/3 of an hour of play x 25,000 average bet x whatever the house edge is x 35% of that.

    If you bet 250K at Baccarat your theo loss is, let's just round the house edge to 1%, $2500. 35% of that is $875. in comps. But again, the amount of time you keep betting that 25K per hand you mention matters as much how many times you do it. Some casinos will give you actual time spent at the Baccarat table, some will give you an hour per shoe no matter how fast or slowly you play, and at Resorts World I understand that their computer gives you a flat two minutes per hand played (I believe it's two minutes, anyway).

    Keep in mind that max Baccarat bet at most Strip casinos is 20K, absent private table special limits.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 2:25:52 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    darkoz
    darkoz
    • Threads: 297
    • Posts: 11546
    Joined: Dec 22, 2009
    September 24th, 2021 at 2:35:57 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
  • link to original post



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    MDawg
    MDawg
    • Threads: 40
    • Posts: 7530
    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    September 24th, 2021 at 2:42:07 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.

  • link to original post


    All the most popular WOV threads become a battle of who is the greatest.

    Just accept it! you'll sleep better at night.

    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
    • Threads: 167
    • Posts: 5937
    Joined: Oct 5, 2011
    September 24th, 2021 at 2:54:58 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AlanMendelson



    At Red Rock you can use a debit card for up to $3000. The ATM fee is $3.99 I believe.

    If you wanted to take out $5000 for example you must use a cash advance even if it's a debit and not a credit card.

    There are cash advance fees because they exceed the $3000 limit.

    Red Rock rebates those fees.

  • link to original post



    But the bank starts charging interest the moment a cash advance is withdrawn, and at a higher rate than for purchases. If, we are talking about a credit card that is. All bad.

    If we are talking about a debit card, I have never heard of cash advance fees from a bank for a debit card?? Why would there be "cash advance" fees on a debit card? I don't believe there is any such thing as a cash advance on a debit card in the first place - it is all cash, withdrawn, from your bank. There is no advance.
  • link to original post



    It's called a cash advance fee but it's a debit from your bank account. No credit card and no interest.

    Next time you're in a casino take a look at the menu on an ATM. You'll see the amounts that can be withdrawn as a straight ATM debit, and at what amount you need to use a cash advance and then get the money from the cage.
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 2:56:59 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    You didn't quote anything that I said.


    However, betting for a just a couple minutes per casino is not going to get you much theo loss, is it? Sounds like - about twenty minutes of play (2 minutes each @ 10 casinos) at $25,000. average, so yes you'd get 1/3 of an hour of play x 25,000 average bet x whatever the house edge is x 35% of that.

    If you bet 250K at Baccarat your theo loss is, let's just round the house edge to 1%, $2500. 35% of that is $875. in comps. But again, the amount of time you keep betting that 25K per hand you mention matters as much how many times you do it. Some casinos will give you actual time spent at the Baccarat table, some will give you an hour per shoe no matter how fast or slowly you play, and at Resorts World I understand that their computer gives you a flat two minutes per hand played (I believe it's two minutes, anyway).

    Keep in mind that max Baccarat bet at most Strip casinos is 20K, absent private table special limits.

  • link to original post

    I'm not talking about theo, I don't disagree with the theo.

    I'm talking about quick losses only so let's focus on that. I don't believe 10%-15% is an automatic standard thing on all table game losses, I think the hosts will factor in other things when determining quick losses. I think your chances of getting 10% on a big loss over 1 or 2 hands/plays is less than 50% without some special circumstances.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    MDawg
    MDawg
    • Threads: 40
    • Posts: 7530
    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    September 24th, 2021 at 3:06:09 PM permalink
    Well, one time I walked into a casino, placed 5K on one single hand of Blackjack (this was years ago), and lost. This was the only action made at that casino in many months by me, maybe even all year if I recollect correctly.

    A month or so later I returned and asked for a comp to their steak house for my girlfriend and me, and the host (or maybe it was a pit boss, this was a while back when pit bosses could hand out comp slips) fooled around on the computer and said that the loss had been entered incorrectly somehow, and that I had received no comps for the action. It was corrected and I got the comp. The steak house dinner for two wasn't $500. but then it wasn't just $100. either.

    I don't think they care if you lose fast or lose slowly, if the loss is there you should get your 10%. Do I know this for a fact? well, I suppose I could ask if that 10% actual loss comp depends on the length of play. I'll get back on this after I do.

    The cases where I know of "overrides" are where the player has lost a lot or played not quite enough and neither the actual nor the theo loss is enough to cover the whole trip's RFB, and then, for a known player they will cover the deficiency even though the computer then shows the player as "overcomped" for that one trip. But they won't keep overcomping forever.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 3:26:08 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
  • link to original post



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.
  • link to original post

    Most AP's find it difficult to believe you continuously profit 20k a week, that would put u at making close to a million a year. If you have had even 2 years where you yourself have profited 500k, you would absolutely be at a higher level than most AP's that play slots.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 3:41:25 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Well, one time I walked into a casino, placed 5K on one single hand of Blackjack (this was years ago), and lost. This was the only action made at that casino in many months by me, maybe even all year if I recollect correctly.

    A month or so later I returned and asked for a comp to their steak house for my girlfriend and me, and the host (or maybe it was a pit boss, this was a while back when pit bosses could hand out comp slips) fooled around on the computer and said that the loss had been entered incorrectly somehow, and that I had received no comps for the action. It was corrected and I got the comp. The steak house dinner for two wasn't $500. but then it wasn't just $100. either.

    I don't think they care if you lose fast or lose slowly, if the loss is there you should get your 10%. Do I know this for a fact? well, I suppose I could ask if that 10% actual loss comp depends on the length of play. I'll get back on this after I do.

    The cases where I know of "overrides" are where the player has lost a lot or played not quite enough and neither the actual nor the theo loss is enough to cover the whole trip's RFB, and then, for a known player they will cover the deficiency even though the computer then shows the player as "overcomped" for that one trip. But they won't keep overcomping forever.

  • link to original post

    Yes, let us know where we can get a guarantee 10%-15% on a quick loss on any table game. If true, I'm thinking the next time we have a big spring fling a few of us, or whoever wanted to kick in could pull this off and obtain $2500 in comps for very little actual cost and far less than we normally pay for the dinner. It would certainly be fun and give us something to talk about.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    darkoz
    darkoz
    • Threads: 297
    • Posts: 11546
    Joined: Dec 22, 2009
    September 24th, 2021 at 3:43:34 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
  • link to original post



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.
  • link to original post

    Most AP's find it difficult to believe you continuously profit 20k a week, that would put u at making close to a million a year. If you have had even 2 years where you yourself have profited 500k, you would absolutely be at a higher level than most AP's that play slots.
  • link to original post



    It's always good to know I am at the top of my game
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 3:46:16 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
  • link to original post



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.
  • link to original post

    Most AP's find it difficult to believe you continuously profit 20k a week, that would put u at making close to a million a year. If you have had even 2 years where you yourself have profited 500k, you would absolutely be at a higher level than most AP's that play slots.
  • link to original post



    It's always good to know I am at the top of my game
  • link to original post

    So are you saying you have in fact had 2 years where you have profited at leat 500k for yourself?
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    darkoz
    darkoz
    • Threads: 297
    • Posts: 11546
    Joined: Dec 22, 2009
    September 24th, 2021 at 4:07:09 PM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
  • link to original post



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.
  • link to original post

    Most AP's find it difficult to believe you continuously profit 20k a week, that would put u at making close to a million a year. If you have had even 2 years where you yourself have profited 500k, you would absolutely be at a higher level than most AP's that play slots.
  • link to original post



    It's always good to know I am at the top of my game
  • link to original post

    So are you saying you have in fact had 2 years where you have profited at leat 500k for yourself?
  • link to original post



    Almost!

    2020 I lost five months from the pandemic. Only made it to $279,000.
    For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
    MichaelBluejay
    MichaelBluejay
    • Threads: 82
    • Posts: 1625
    Joined: Sep 17, 2010
    September 24th, 2021 at 8:22:47 PM permalink
    If casinos truly typically rebate 10% of losses as comps, I'd like to include that in my comp article, but:

    (1) I'm skeptical that it's true because, as others have noted, it's vulnerable to abuse.

    (2) I need a reliable source as confirmation. I can't put it in my article just because some guy on some Internet forum said so.

    Also, I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a mention that you can't get food comps from the floor staff any more. Is that true, and if so, where do you now get hooked up for meals?
    Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 9:14:02 PM permalink
    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: darkoz

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: Dieter

    Quote: AxelWolf

    So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

  • link to original post



    Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
  • link to original post

    It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

    That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

    I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

    I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.
  • link to original post



    First off my statement wasn't dumb.

    Yes it was.
  • link to original post



    If that's the only thing you can answer then you know it's not.
  • link to original post

    Not true, it's been discussed ad nauseam before and I don't want to keep going, so I'll end with this...IIRC the number was 5k we mentioned. It would be dumb not to pay 51% for 5k. Most AP's know that's a fact and not an opinion.
  • link to original post



    Most AP's also find it difficult to believe I pull $20,000 a week from casinos.

    I suppose we know why now. They are not on my level.
  • link to original post

    Most AP's find it difficult to believe you continuously profit 20k a week, that would put u at making close to a million a year. If you have had even 2 years where you yourself have profited 500k, you would absolutely be at a higher level than most AP's that play slots.
  • link to original post



    It's always good to know I am at the top of my game
  • link to original post

    So are you saying you have in fact had 2 years where you have profited at leat 500k for yourself?
  • link to original post



    Almost!

    2020 I lost five months from the pandemic. Only made it to $279,000.
  • link to original post

    And a 500k the years prior ?
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 24th, 2021 at 9:41:14 PM permalink
    Quote: MichaelBluejay

    If casinos truly typically rebate 10% of losses as comps, I'd like to include that in my comp article, but:

    (1) I'm skeptical that it's true because, as others have noted, it's vulnerable to abuse.

    (2) I need a reliable source as confirmation. I can't put it in my article just because some guy on some Internet forum said so.

    Also, I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a mention that you can't get food comps from the floor staff any more. Is that true, and if so, where do you now get hooked up for meals?

  • link to original post

    If and when it happens, it's from your host.

    It certainly does happen however, it's not standard. Casinos are willing to do things outside the standards if they believe it's in their best interest to do so. Hosts have access to player's supposed wins/losses, overall theo, etc. They know if that person is worth giving a quick loss or theo based comp. They will oftentimes give a new player the benefit of the doubt and are willing to over-comp that player until they realize they are not worthy of such generous comps. At that point, they oftentimes just put you into over-comped status(been there many times) where you are on makeup. They might still be willing to toss you a buffet or some small stuff, but that's about it.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    Expectedvalue
    Expectedvalue
    • Threads: 4
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    Joined: Apr 23, 2020
    September 25th, 2021 at 4:56:34 AM permalink
    Quote: sabre

    Ah yes, you claim to be counting spreading $500-$20000



    Just to be clear, I think the above is absolutely a lie.

  • link to original post





    This about sums up this entire thread, and the fact that wizard went see mdawg wants the attention and this entire thread now turns into thinly veiled way to have the tool thread again.
    Also Marcus Clark did mention someone about cash advance. I went through 27 pages Ö. Yes Iíll never get those minutes if my life back. And couldnít find it. Itís possible itís deleted or I just missed it. But cmon wizard there is no way that you can spread 500-20k and win and not get heat. And comped for 6 months straight and on and on and on. Also didnít mdawg some time back mention he doesnít even get promo chips. Now he says he does but I somewhat remeber axel asking him and it kind of getting brushed aside. Sorry for the voice to post Iím usually stopped at a light when I post and use verbal messages
    MDawg
    MDawg
    • Threads: 40
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    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    September 25th, 2021 at 5:31:30 AM permalink
    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: MichaelBluejay

    If casinos truly typically rebate 10% of losses as comps, I'd like to include that in my comp article, but:

    (1) I'm skeptical that it's true because, as others have noted, it's vulnerable to abuse.

    (2) I need a reliable source as confirmation. I can't put it in my article just because some guy on some Internet forum said so.

    Also, I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a mention that you can't get food comps from the floor staff any more. Is that true, and if so, where do you now get hooked up for meals?

  • link to original post

    If and when it happens, it's from your host.

    It certainly does happen however, it's not standard. Casinos are willing to do things outside the standards if they believe it's in their best interest to do so. Hosts have access to player's supposed wins/losses, overall theo, etc. They know if that person is worth giving a quick loss or theo based comp. They will oftentimes give a new player the benefit of the doubt and are willing to over-comp that player until they realize they are not worthy of such generous comps. At that point, they oftentimes just put you into over-comped status(been there many times) where you are on makeup. They might still be willing to toss you a buffet or some small stuff, but that's about it.
  • link to original post


    Quote: AxelWolf

    Yes, let us know where we can get a guarantee 10%-15% on a quick loss on any table game. If true, I'm thinking the next time we have a big spring fling a few of us, or whoever wanted to kick in could pull this off and obtain $2500 in comps for very little actual cost and far less than we normally pay for the dinner. It would certainly be fun and give us something to talk about.

  • link to original post



    So far I have communicated with one host from a major Strip property. I believe AW had envisioned some scheme where different players who know each other step into the casino, and play against each other at a table, one losing, one winning, and then the losing one gets 10% comps against actual losses, and then between the two of them they lose only the house edge. AW was asking me to find out if the TIME played (losing quickly, or losing slowly) would matter.

    The way I have posed the question to a couple of my hosts is, what if someone walked into the casino and played one hand, lost $6000., would he receive the usual 10% actual loss in comps?

    From what I am hearing so far, it seems that the 10% for actual loss rebate doesn't necessarily have to do with the amount of time spent at the tables but more with who the player is. If the player is someone just taking a shot, that the casino doesn't know and might never see again, then he might not get much if any comps for the loss. If the player is a gamer, somehow known or expected to continue gaming, then the full 10% comps would be in order.

    In other words, if I walked into the casino as a known player, and dumped a bunch of money quickly or even in one hand, they would give me the 10% comps whether I lost fast or slowly. Someone else, whom they do not know - might not get much if any comps based on actual loss for a one shot attempt.

    Even in that example I posted above where I walked into a casino and played one hand of blackjack and lost big, I was a known player there but just hadn't played at that casino in some time. In the end, I did get some comps for that one hand loss.

    Now, when I posed the question to my hosts I didn't even say anything about who the player might be. I just said "if someone" walks in and loses big on one hand, will he get the 10% actual comps. But the host who responded right away took it to assume that I was talking about a new player, which tells you right away where they are coming from - they want to comp players who they think will keep coming back or who do keep coming back, in other words, they want to comp gamers, not shot takers.

    So yes, the 10% comp against actual loss is very much standard. But seemingly only for known or at least expected players, not necessarily for shot takers.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    Expectedvalue
    Expectedvalue
    • Threads: 4
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    Joined: Apr 23, 2020
    September 25th, 2021 at 5:33:32 AM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: MichaelBluejay

    If casinos truly typically rebate 10% of losses as comps, I'd like to include that in my comp article, but:

    (1) I'm skeptical that it's true because, as others have noted, it's vulnerable to abuse.

    (2) I need a reliable source as confirmation. I can't put it in my article just because some guy on some Internet forum said so.

    Also, I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a mention that you can't get food comps from the floor staff any more. Is that true, and if so, where do you now get hooked up for meals?

  • link to original post

    If and when it happens, it's from your host.

    It certainly does happen however, it's not standard. Casinos are willing to do things outside the standards if they believe it's in their best interest to do so. Hosts have access to player's supposed wins/losses, overall theo, etc. They know if that person is worth giving a quick loss or theo based comp. They will oftentimes give a new player the benefit of the doubt and are willing to over-comp that player until they realize they are not worthy of such generous comps. At that point, they oftentimes just put you into over-comped status(been there many times) where you are on makeup. They might still be willing to toss you a buffet or some small stuff, but that's about it.
  • link to original post



    So far I have communicated with one host from a major Strip property. AW had envisioned some scheme where different players who know each other step into the casino, and play against each other at a table, one losing, one winning, and then the losing one gets 10% comps against actual losses, and the between the two of them they lose only the house edge. AW was asking me to find out if the TIME played (losing quickly, or losing slowly) would matter.

    The way I have posed the question to a few of my hosts is, what if someone walked into the casino and played one hand, lost $6000., would he receive the usual 10% actual loss in comps?

    From what I am hearing so far, it seems that the 10% for actual loss rebate doesn't necessarily have to do with the amount of time spent at the tables with who the player is. If the player is someone just taking a shot, that the casino doesn't know and might never see again, then he might not get much if any comps for the loss. If the player is a gamer, somehow known or expected to continue gaming, then the full 10% comps would be in order.

    In other words, if I walked into the casino as a known player, and dumped a bunch of money, they would give me the 10% comps whether I lost fast or slowly. Someone else, whom they do not know - might not get much if any comps based on actual loss for a one shot attempt.

    Now, when I posted the question I didn't even say anything about who the player might be. I just said "if someone" walks in and loses big on one hand, will he get the 10% actual comps. But the host who responded right away took it upon himself to assume that I was talking about a new player, which tells you right away where they are coming from - they want to comp players whom they think will keep coming back or who do keep coming back, in other words, they want to comp gamers, not shot takers.
  • link to original post




    You talk to a lot of host and ask questions about give backs and percentages. Thatís usually a red flag
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 25th, 2021 at 2:44:53 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: MichaelBluejay

    If casinos truly typically rebate 10% of losses as comps, I'd like to include that in my comp article, but:

    (1) I'm skeptical that it's true because, as others have noted, it's vulnerable to abuse.

    (2) I need a reliable source as confirmation. I can't put it in my article just because some guy on some Internet forum said so.

    Also, I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a mention that you can't get food comps from the floor staff any more. Is that true, and if so, where do you now get hooked up for meals?

  • link to original post

    If and when it happens, it's from your host.

    It certainly does happen however, it's not standard. Casinos are willing to do things outside the standards if they believe it's in their best interest to do so. Hosts have access to player's supposed wins/losses, overall theo, etc. They know if that person is worth giving a quick loss or theo based comp. They will oftentimes give a new player the benefit of the doubt and are willing to over-comp that player until they realize they are not worthy of such generous comps. At that point, they oftentimes just put you into over-comped status(been there many times) where you are on makeup. They might still be willing to toss you a buffet or some small stuff, but that's about it.
  • link to original post


    Quote: AxelWolf

    Yes, let us know where we can get a guarantee 10%-15% on a quick loss on any table game. If true, I'm thinking the next time we have a big spring fling a few of us, or whoever wanted to kick in could pull this off and obtain $2500 in comps for very little actual cost and far less than we normally pay for the dinner. It would certainly be fun and give us something to talk about.

  • link to original post



    So far I have communicated with one host from a major Strip property. I believe AW had envisioned some scheme where different players who know each other step into the casino, and play against each other at a table, one losing, one winning, and then the losing one gets 10% comps against actual losses, and then between the two of them they lose only the house edge. AW was asking me to find out if the TIME played (losing quickly, or losing slowly) would matter.

    The way I have posed the question to a couple of my hosts is, what if someone walked into the casino and played one hand, lost $6000., would he receive the usual 10% actual loss in comps?

    From what I am hearing so far, it seems that the 10% for actual loss rebate doesn't necessarily have to do with the amount of time spent at the tables but more with who the player is. If the player is someone just taking a shot, that the casino doesn't know and might never see again, then he might not get much if any comps for the loss. If the player is a gamer, somehow known or expected to continue gaming, then the full 10% comps would be in order.

    In other words, if I walked into the casino as a known player, and dumped a bunch of money quickly or even in one hand, they would give me the 10% comps whether I lost fast or slowly. Someone else, whom they do not know - might not get much if any comps based on actual loss for a one shot attempt.

    Even in that example I posted above where I walked into a casino and played one hand of blackjack and lost big, I was a known player there but just hadn't played at that casino in some time. In the end, I did get some comps for that one hand loss.

    Now, when I posed the question to my hosts I didn't even say anything about who the player might be. I just said "if someone" walks in and loses big on one hand, will he get the 10% actual comps. But the host who responded right away took it to assume that I was talking about a new player, which tells you right away where they are coming from - they want to comp players who they think will keep coming back or who do keep coming back, in other words, they want to comp gamers, not shot takers.
    You mention that
    So yes, the 10% comp against actual loss is very much standard. But seemingly only for known or at least expected players, not necessarily for shot takers.
  • link to original post

    I asked you to find out because I knew it wasn't true(the standard).

    I know that you believe you know more about comps and higher limit play than all others here... as if you are the only one on here who has been comped at higher levels and played big.

    Make sure ego and experience in your own little world isn't causing you to give out miss information. Assuming everything you say is true about your betting levels and habits....most of what you are saying is out of touch with 99% of the people on the forums and it won't really help anyone, it probably does more harm than good.

    You don't know what I envisioned. You mention that only because in the past I brought it up in the past as somthing I would be watching for if there was ever a challenge, or If had a reason to be looking for that. From all indications, at the time it seemed to me as if you didn't even understand what I was saying.

    There are many different ways one could go about this without being obvious or making offsetting bets. Your word envisioned makes it seem as it's just somthing now being thought or some theory. I have been there and done that, years before anyone knew the name AxelWolf or MDawg, and at various times throughout the years.

    And here is one for you that's even better than your quick loss. I, (and others have as well) have gotten thousand in comps/ free play at casinos without ever having made had made a bet at that casino or a sister property.

    I still don't think 10% quick losses are very much the standard, I would say that it's all over the map when it comes to quick losses. It isn't even standard among the same properties, it can be very host and player dependant. There have been many times where one host will turn me down for a sizable comp. I just wait and ask a different host on a different shift, or even change hosts.

    I have been in situations where I played with partners on the same game(s) and lost/played/won about the same amount. They ask for a sizable comp and they are turned down(it's never a flat out no, it's always some version of, you need a little more play, blah blah blah). My response to my partner is... let me show you how it's done and after a day or so I would get what they were asking for.

    Perhaps one day I'll share a few funny/interesting stories about procuring comps. Sometimes all's it takes is a couple of sexy girls...
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 25th, 2021 at 2:52:04 PM permalink
    Quote: Expectedvalue

    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: AxelWolf

    Quote: MichaelBluejay

    If casinos truly typically rebate 10% of losses as comps, I'd like to include that in my comp article, but:

    (1) I'm skeptical that it's true because, as others have noted, it's vulnerable to abuse.

    (2) I need a reliable source as confirmation. I can't put it in my article just because some guy on some Internet forum said so.

    Also, I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a mention that you can't get food comps from the floor staff any more. Is that true, and if so, where do you now get hooked up for meals?

  • link to original post

    If and when it happens, it's from your host.

    It certainly does happen however, it's not standard. Casinos are willing to do things outside the standards if they believe it's in their best interest to do so. Hosts have access to player's supposed wins/losses, overall theo, etc. They know if that person is worth giving a quick loss or theo based comp. They will oftentimes give a new player the benefit of the doubt and are willing to over-comp that player until they realize they are not worthy of such generous comps. At that point, they oftentimes just put you into over-comped status(been there many times) where you are on makeup. They might still be willing to toss you a buffet or some small stuff, but that's about it.
  • link to original post



    So far I have communicated with one host from a major Strip property. AW had envisioned some scheme where different players who know each other step into the casino, and play against each other at a table, one losing, one winning, and then the losing one gets 10% comps against actual losses, and the between the two of them they lose only the house edge. AW was asking me to find out if the TIME played (losing quickly, or losing slowly) would matter.

    The way I have posed the question to a few of my hosts is, what if someone walked into the casino and played one hand, lost $6000., would he receive the usual 10% actual loss in comps?

    From what I am hearing so far, it seems that the 10% for actual loss rebate doesn't necessarily have to do with the amount of time spent at the tables with who the player is. If the player is someone just taking a shot, that the casino doesn't know and might never see again, then he might not get much if any comps for the loss. If the player is a gamer, somehow known or expected to continue gaming, then the full 10% comps would be in order.

    In other words, if I walked into the casino as a known player, and dumped a bunch of money, they would give me the 10% comps whether I lost fast or slowly. Someone else, whom they do not know - might not get much if any comps based on actual loss for a one shot attempt.

    Now, when I posted the question I didn't even say anything about who the player might be. I just said "if someone" walks in and loses big on one hand, will he get the 10% actual comps. But the host who responded right away took it upon himself to assume that I was talking about a new player, which tells you right away where they are coming from - they want to comp players whom they think will keep coming back or who do keep coming back, in other words, they want to comp gamers, not shot takers.
  • link to original post




    You talk to a lot of host and ask questions about give backs and percentages. Thatís usually a red flag
  • link to original post

    A red flag for what? He doesn't know therefore he has to ask? It can certainly be a red flag if you are an advantage player. If you are losing your ass or they know u are a sucker(not calling anyone a sucker)the hosts usually don't care what you ask them, they will be very liberal with the information.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    MDawg
    MDawg
    • Threads: 40
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    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    September 25th, 2021 at 2:52:13 PM permalink
    I am not sure what your point is?

    I am not the only player playing in Vegas with a player card. Most players play with a player card.

    Unless you're up to no good or playing under the radar, you're going to get the 10% actual loss comp, or 35-40% theo comp.

    Who walks into a casino and makes just one bet anyway? Such a person probably wouldn't care about comps anyway, unless he were up to no good.


    Anyway it seems as though AxelWolf has reverted to making jealous snide remarks. My mistake for taking him seriously. However, he did post earlier something that shows that he knows very little about how any of this works. Again.

    Back to ignoring him.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
    • Threads: 164
    • Posts: 22293
    Joined: Oct 10, 2012
    September 25th, 2021 at 3:00:10 PM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    I am not sure what your point is?

    I am not the only player playing in Vegas with a player card. Most players play with a player card.

    Unless you're up to no good or playing under the radar, you're going to get the 10% actual loss comp, or 35-40% theo comp.

    Who walks into a casino and makes just one bet anyway? Such a person probably wouldn't care about comps anyway, unless he were up to no good.

  • link to original post

    I used one bet as an extreme example. One bet, 2, bets 3 bets, short sessions, whatever. You don't have to be up to no good to not get 10%. 10 % ISNT THE STANDARD PERIOD. You just can't admit you don't know what the standard is when it comes to quick losses.
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    AlanMendelson
    AlanMendelson
    • Threads: 167
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    Joined: Oct 5, 2011
    September 26th, 2021 at 12:45:18 AM permalink
    Years ago I wrote about "tricking" casinos with one or two big bets.

    It was a trick targeting Total Rewards in particular.

    At the time they used an algorithm that identified NEW card holders who made ONLY ONE OR TWO BIG BETS then stopped playing.

    The algorithm identified these NEW PLAYERS as potential high rollers who for some reason had to leave the casino perhaps for dinner or a show or left to play at a different casino.

    These players would get BIG OFFERS in the mail to return.

    This was more than ten years ago. I dont know how long it lasted. I did a TV news story on comps and this was part of the report on algorithms.
    MDawg
    MDawg
    • Threads: 40
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    Joined: Sep 27, 2018
    September 26th, 2021 at 8:29:08 AM permalink
    On a recent day, I played at three casinos. I lost small at one, lost big at another, and won even bigger at a third.

    For the small loss I will get comps - whether based on actual loss or theo loss the jury is still out as the action at that casino continues, and whether staying there or not, relatively continuous (within three days) play is considered one trip. At trip's end if I am net negative at that casino, I may get 10% of actual loss comps; if even or ahead, I may get 35-40% of theo loss. I say "may" because I will get one or the other, whichever works out better for me. At this time the loss at that casino isn't enough to get any concessions, just regular comps.

    For the big loss I will get comps based on actual loss. Don't plan to return to that casino for a bit. I already got some comps on the way out the door, and tried to get my loss rebate concession but couldn't get it handled as it was too late in the day, that day, and my host wasn't around. Should get a rebate come later in the week after that day's play.

    For the bigger win, I will get theo loss comps.

    The net result for the day for me was negative (a net loss), but considering how far in the hole I was after the first two casino's losing sessions, I am relieved and happy with the end result for that day. A lot of hours at a very high average bet.

    People saying that comp calculations are mysterious or depend are saying so from the point of view of someone who is not a regular player. For someone like me there is no mystery and I know pretty much exactly what I have coming after my play.
    I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
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