Perpetual COMP machine
Quote: MDawgOn a recent day, I played at three casinos. I lost small at one, lost big at another, and won even bigger at a third.
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For the small loss I will get comps - whether based on actual loss or theo loss the jury is still out as the action at that casino continues, and whether staying there or not, relatively continuous (within three days) play is considered one trip. At trip's end if I am net negative at that casino, I may get 10% of actual loss comps; if even or ahead, I may get 35-40% of theo loss. I say "may" because I will get one or the other, whichever works out better for me. At this time the loss at that casino isn't enough to get any concessions, just regular comps.
For the big loss I will get comps based on actual loss. Don't plan to return to that casino for a bit. I already got some comps on the way out the door, and tried to get my loss rebate concession but couldn't get it handled as it was too late in the day, that day, and my host wasn't around. Should get a rebate come later in the week after that day's play.
For the bigger win, I will get theo loss comps.
The net result for the day for me was negative (a net loss), but considering how far in the hole I was after the first two casino's losing sessions, I am relieved and happy with the end result for that day. A lot of hours at a very high average bet.
People saying that comp calculations are mysterious or depend are saying so from the point of view of someone who is not a regular player. For someone like me there is no mystery and I know pretty much exactly what I have coming after my play.
Rather than getting into a pissing match, to be clear, you don't consider the Theo vs actual return percentage to be Freeplay?
The comps you are talking about are strictly in what I find worthless sugar candy (hotels, food, tickets to shows, shopping sprees) etc?
If so, then I won't argue with you. I don't pursue those and I have seen some weird promotion aspects that make me shake my head.
I think all AP's consider freeplay not only comps but THE comps of importance. So when Axel and I argue with you on this subject it's from this point of view.
For example, I am quite certain Axel doesn't care about doing a doey/, don't so he can get some comped hotel rooms (correct me if I am wrong here Axel). He is thinking 30-40% as in freeplay return.
It sounds to me like you are getting a large amount of ancillary comps but very little freeplay so AP's just aren't speaking the same language as you. In AP talk, Freeplay is comps king. That's why there are entire threads on here about best way to maximize freeplay and almost no threads about best way to maximize RFB.
MDawg, This is borderline insulting. Attack the post not the member. We do not all need to know that you are ignoring him.Quote: MDawgAnyway it seems as though AxelWolf has reverted to making jealous snide remarks. My mistake for taking him seriously. However, he did post earlier something that shows that he knows very little about how any of this works. Again.
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Back to ignoring him.
No penalty this time.
Regards,
OD.
My understanding of what AxelWolf was talking about was a couple of Spring Fling WOV's going into a casino, playing opposite sides of the craps table or some such, losing only the house edge between the two of them, collecting 10% actual loss comps, to get a free sumptuous dinner. So RFB seems to be exactly what he was talking about.
Quote: AxelWolfYes, let us know where we can get a guarantee 10%-15% on a quick loss on any table game. If true, I'm thinking the next time we have a big spring fling a few of us, or whoever wanted to kick in could pull this off and obtain $2500 in comps for very little actual cost and far less than we normally pay for the dinner. It would certainly be fun and give us something to talk about.
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Quote: MDawgAt table games only known gamers with consistent history are getting freeplay. Shot takers (the equivalent of "one hit wonders") will not get freeplay. And, while in the world of slots it would seem from what you keep saying that freeplay is handed out freely like long federal prison sentences for child porn, at table games promotional chips are not handed out every single month or for every single trip.
My understanding of what AxelWolf was talking about was a couple of Spring Fling WOV's going into a casino, playing opposite sides of the craps table or some such, losing only the house edge between the two of them, collecting 10% actual loss comps, to get a free sumptuous dinner. So RFB seems to be exactly what he was talking about.link to original postQuote: AxelWolfYes, let us know where we can get a guarantee 10%-15% on a quick loss on any table game. If true, I'm thinking the next time we have a big spring fling a few of us, or whoever wanted to kick in could pull this off and obtain $2500 in comps for very little actual cost and far less than we normally pay for the dinner. It would certainly be fun and give us something to talk about.
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So to be clear when you refer to consistent history versus shot takers.
A shot takers is someone who does one or two hands/spins and regardless of actual loss leaves.
Versus consistent history is someone who plays several hours?
When I think of consistent history I am thinking someone with a host who has played days or even months at the same location.
If I walked into a casino in general (I am East Coast so maybe things are different in Vegas) and gamble for hours at a Baccarat table for the first time I ever visited I am certain to get comped.
Although I agree not for just a shot-take like one or two hands. Needs to be some significant play.
I do not doubt that if an unknown player walks into a casino and plays for hours that he would not receive the benefit of either actual loss or theo loss comps. I assume they would be all over him quickly assigning him a host if his average bet were high enough.
Let me add: I believe that if some player became known as a guy who played just one hand per session, but did that enough times over a long enough period, that even he would get comped once some history was established.
Given the right circumstances I'd certainly be willing to take advantage of a situation where I knew for certain I could get a large number of comps for very little cost with very little time invested. It's not something I would do on the regular and I would want to be certain it wouldn't catch any heat. My family, friends, and nephew comes to town often with their friends and family I get them whatever comps I might have available but 2 or 3 room and meals for 3-7 days is not something I would have available something like this would be a good option, especially since my nephew has the money, brains, and willingness to pull it off with some coaching.Quote: darkozQuote: MDawgOn a recent day, I played at three casinos. I lost small at one, lost big at another, and won even bigger at a third.
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For the small loss I will get comps - whether based on actual loss or theo loss the jury is still out as the action at that casino continues, and whether staying there or not, relatively continuous (within three days) play is considered one trip. At trip's end if I am net negative at that casino, I may get 10% of actual loss comps; if even or ahead, I may get 35-40% of theo loss. I say "may" because I will get one or the other, whichever works out better for me. At this time the loss at that casino isn't enough to get any concessions, just regular comps.
For the big loss I will get comps based on actual loss. Don't plan to return to that casino for a bit. I already got some comps on the way out the door, and tried to get my loss rebate concession but couldn't get it handled as it was too late in the day, that day, and my host wasn't around. Should get a rebate come later in the week after that day's play.
For the bigger win, I will get theo loss comps.
The net result for the day for me was negative (a net loss), but considering how far in the hole I was after the first two casino's losing sessions, I am relieved and happy with the end result for that day. A lot of hours at a very high average bet.
People saying that comp calculations are mysterious or depend are saying so from the point of view of someone who is not a regular player. For someone like me there is no mystery and I know pretty much exactly what I have coming after my play.
Rather than getting into a pissing match, to be clear, you don't consider the Theo vs actual return percentage to be Freeplay?
The comps you are talking about are strictly in what I find worthless sugar candy (hotels, food, tickets to shows, shopping sprees) etc?
If so, then I won't argue with you. I don't pursue those and I have seen some weird promotion aspects that make me shake my head.
I think all AP's consider freeplay not only comps but THE comps of importance. So when Axel and I argue with you on this subject it's from this point of view.
For example, I am quite certain Axel doesn't care about doing a doey/, don't so he can get some comped hotel rooms (correct me if I am wrong here Axel). He is thinking 30-40% as in freeplay return.
It sounds to me like you are getting a large amount of ancillary comps but very little freeplay so AP's just aren't speaking the same language as you. In AP talk, Freeplay is comps king. That's why there are entire threads on here about best way to maximize freeplay and almost no threads about best way to maximize RFB.link to original post
Quote: AxelWolfSo you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.link to original postQuote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
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A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.link to original post
Sorry but the casino take on a patron losing $25,000.00 would be exactly $25,000.00.
Now if you are going to factor in another patron winning money and deducting the win from the losses, that’s another story. Sure there are daily tally stats as well as weekly, monthly and quarterly. Which would have the total drop, the total house win or house loss as a collective figure.
But as far as a single patron losing $25,000.00 at the table, the casinos take on that would be $25,000.00.
MDawg is pretty accurate on his cited percentages he quoted but they would vary slightly from casino brand to casino brand.
Last time I was at the casino I play at, I asked how much comp I had in their system. They told me $4.75 available. We laughed as I was winning tens of thousands of dollars from them. But my felt time is extremely low. On the other hand the person asked me what I was looking for? I told her a pizza to go, a couple burgers and a couple shakes. She printed me off a $50.00 comp for their food court and told me if I needed anymore to have them call her.
That’s the way it works.
I too, I will ask a host about what exactly I earned in the way of theo loss, etc. on a recent session and post it here when I get a chance, to show another real world example.
Quote: Marcusclark66Action, hours played far surpasses straight losses in the automated comp computer. However, straight losses or even wins, both within short periods of play time, can be addressed and rewarded by casino hosts and other marketing personnel as well as higher level floor people.
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MDawg is pretty accurate on his cited percentages he quoted but they would vary slightly from casino brand to casino brand.
Last time I was at the casino I play at, I asked how much comp I had in their system. They told me $4.75 available. We laughed as I was winning tens of thousands of dollars from them. But my felt time is extremely low. On the other hand the person asked me what I was looking for? I told her a pizza to go, a couple burgers and a couple shakes. She printed me off a $50.00 comp for their food court and told me if I needed anymore to have them call her.
That’s the way it works.
Are you still working security now that your a High Roller?
Quote: rainmanlink to original post
Are you still working security now that your a High Roller?
Hi Rainman,
Please take questions about Marcuss's HighRolling sessions to the appropriate thread. It's hidden, but I'll help you find it here. hidden threads list
I've asked him in his thread if / why he has stopped playing.
No penalty, of course, but I'm trying to nip minor hijacks in the bud before squabbles erupt.
Regards
OD
Quote: rainmanQuote: Marcusclark66Action, hours played far surpasses straight losses in the automated comp computer. However, straight losses or even wins, both within short periods of play time, can be addressed and rewarded by casino hosts and other marketing personnel as well as higher level floor people.
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MDawg is pretty accurate on his cited percentages he quoted but they would vary slightly from casino brand to casino brand.
Last time I was at the casino I play at, I asked how much comp I had in their system. They told me $4.75 available. We laughed as I was winning tens of thousands of dollars from them. But my felt time is extremely low. On the other hand the person asked me what I was looking for? I told her a pizza to go, a couple burgers and a couple shakes. She printed me off a $50.00 comp for their food court and told me if I needed anymore to have them call her.
That’s the way it works.
Are you still working security now that your a High Roller?link to original post
Of course, no intentions of leaving. Benefits, insurance, 401k, pension plan, bonuses, education offerings for family members and more. Gambling is a sideline.
Quote: Marcusclark66Quote: rainmanQuote: Marcusclark66Action, hours played far surpasses straight losses in the automated comp computer. However, straight losses or even wins, both within short periods of play time, can be addressed and rewarded by casino hosts and other marketing personnel as well as higher level floor people.
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MDawg is pretty accurate on his cited percentages he quoted but they would vary slightly from casino brand to casino brand.
Last time I was at the casino I play at, I asked how much comp I had in their system. They told me $4.75 available. We laughed as I was winning tens of thousands of dollars from them. But my felt time is extremely low. On the other hand the person asked me what I was looking for? I told her a pizza to go, a couple burgers and a couple shakes. She printed me off a $50.00 comp for their food court and told me if I needed anymore to have them call her.
That’s the way it works.
Are you still working security now that your a High Roller?link to original post
Of course, no intentions of leaving. Benefits, insurance, 401k, pension plan, bonuses, education offerings for family members and more. Gambling is a sideline.link to original post
This defies all logic and math, with your ability to win tens of thousands at will
would it not be prudent to quit your job? Certainly your winnings in short order would surpass
all benefits monetary and otherwise from the job in fact with your ability
the job is a detriment to you financially and I'm not even factoring in the perpetual comp machine.
[Edit By Mod (OD) I've tried to fix up the formatting]
That is the story. If casinos didn't do that when figuring out how much to comp and give away for promotions etc they would go out of business.Quote: Marcusclark66Quote: AxelWolfSo you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.link to original postQuote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
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A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.link to original post
Sorry but the casino take on a patron losing $25,000.00 would be exactly $25,000.00.
Now if you are going to factor in another patron winning money and deducting the win from the losses, that’s another story. Sure there are daily tally stats as well as weekly, monthly and quarterly. Which would have the total drop, the total house win or house loss as a collective figure.
But as far as a single patron losing $25,000.00 at the table, the casinos take on that would be $25,000.00.link to original post
Win, lose, or draw - casinos will comp you.
If you lose, 10% of actual, if you win 35-40% of theo, and whichever works out better for the player is what the host will award.
In my case - a new "trip" - is merely - minimum of three days from the prior one, as far as promotions are concerned, and in some cases casinos have waived this three day requirement for me.
Point being that most anything is possible in Vegas as far as concessions, with negotiation.
I don't know exactly on what basis promotional chips are awarded / I don't know the exact formula. I just know that at some casinos they seem to be awarded much more freely than at others.
Only had to earn 100 tier points. I actually won $22 while earning my 100 points.
It's a pretty nice cookie sheet.
Quote: MDawgAt a recent session I played for over five hours, average bet a little under 2000, earned some under 7000 in theo loss. So, 35% of that would be about $2400. in comps.
This report does not strike me as a huge comp. In fact it hits me as an UNDERCOMP.
When I used to play at Caesars (and this goes back 4 to 5 years ago) I frequently had offers that included free room for 3 to 5 nights in the Augustus Tower plus $2500 of free play for machines which I used for VP.
Now... at the time I was nothing close to Mdawg in terms of action. I'd play craps at a $25 table which was standard for Caesars. I'd bet $130/135 across, rarely any center table bets and double odds for my passline bet.
So my average bet was $205 to $210. Yes, Caesars counted odds when rating you because Caesars had a three tier system.
Tier 1 conservative players like me
Tier 2 come bet players with odds
Tier 3 aggressive players with field and center table bets including hops
The ratings value would vary for each.
But getting back to my point, Mdawg getting $2400 in comps for five hours @ $2000 average bet does not impress me at all.
And in my case while my offer was for free room nights and $2500 free play, at checkout all my dining and room service charges would be comped by my host so I never touched my reward credits.
I used my reward credits in the gift shops buying clothes, Caesars glassware, Caesars luggage, and so on.
Now before you jump in and say craps is a negative game and I lost thousands-- no I didnt.
My usual plan was FIRST to take the $2500 of free play and run it thru once at 8/5 Bonus Poker. This usually yielded more than $2000 in cash (there were times I cashed out much more) and that was my initial stake at craps.
When you're not chasing center table bets and betting conservatively $2000+ goes a long way at craps.
Good for you.
You want that security especially the health and retirement benefits. They are all ++++EV and not having them and thinking you can adequately self insure as an AP can be a horrible mistake.
I am sure the young APs here have no fear of the future but the world looks different when you're 70 and you are not collecting a pension.
A friend of mine just got laid off from a $200k a year job at age 62. He has a big 401k BUT....
He fears every day he will outlive his money. 401Ks run out but pensions dont. In three more months his company health plan will no longer cover him and he'll need private insurance till medicare kicks in at 65. Then at 65 he'll have to get a supplemental plan out of pocket.
Yes he has a fully paid for million dollar house to sell but he never dreamed of moving down and now he'll have to move down.
I liken his experience to that of an AP. Plenty of cash flow and a 401k but once you're not working it all unravels.
Keep your day job Marcus.
Let's not make the mistake in thinking he or anyone is an Advantage Player until they can clearly show they actually have an advantage.Quote: AlanMendelson
You want that security especially the health and retirement benefits. They are all ++++EV and not having them and thinking you can adequately self insure as an AP can be a horrible mistake.
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If you have the ability to make millions in a short time with a betting system, you don't think you could adequately self insure and have a retirement plan?
Why not take the time and go make your millions in short order?
With all his self-proclaimed skills I can't imagine he would have a problem getting a new job.
I guess people don't have confidence in their betting systems, if they did, you know damn well they would be out there making as much easy money as possible, especially when you consider the fact that there would be almost no heat, and you have access 24/7 365 globally, heck you could even do it from the comfort of your own home.
The real reason why it's a terrible idea...BETTING SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK. Let's face it, most of the things the betting system guys claim about their gambling winnings are complete and total BS.
Who pays the premiums for the self insurance you set up?
Does a young AP have the discipline to set aside savings from day one?
My pension plan, funded by my employers, started in 1972. I never would have had the discipline to make similar contributions till my retirement in 2018. I am now guaranteed health insurance for life over and above what I get from Medicare.
How many APs also file taxes so they also have Social Security benefits in addition to their pensions or 401ks?
If an AP can maintain their income and their contributions to retirement and health insurance and file taxes as self employed so they get Social Security and Medicare then more power to them and congratulations are in order.
Quote: AlanMendelsonWhat security does an AP have if they get sick? Or have an accident?
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Who pays the premiums for the self insurance you set up?
Does a young AP have the discipline to set aside savings from day one?
My pension plan, funded by my employers, started in 1972. I never would have had the discipline to make similar contributions till my retirement in 2018. I am now guaranteed health insurance for life over and above what I get from Medicare.
How many APs also file taxes so they also have Social Security benefits in addition to their pensions or 401ks?
If an AP can maintain their income and their contributions to retirement and health insurance and file taxes as self employed so they get Social Security and Medicare then more power to them and congratulations are in order.
You are exactly right and I would choose the complete benefit package so I have an income and full line of benefits when I do retire as well I can always have the gambling on the sideline no matter how it turns out.
And that is my choice I made and I will never go back on it.
As far as other members comments what works for them is fine and what works for them might not work for other people reading this board.
Quote: Marcusclark66link to original post
You are exactly right and I would choose the complete benefit package so I have an income and full line of benefits when I do retire as well I can always have the gambling on the sideline no matter how it turns out.
And that is my choice I made and I will never go back on it.
As far as other members comments what works for them is fine and what works for them might not work for other people reading this board.
One of the cornerstones of smart investing is to diversify which means don't put all your eggs in one basket.
So isnt it smarter to diversify with your income streams also?
On one hand you have an income stream from your regular job and on the other hand you have an income stream from your casino play.
How can you fault that?
In our current economy a lot of people have side gigs.
There are (were) casinos in Tahoe, such as the Horizon where the scuttlebutt was that green chip players got the red carpet treatment, but nowadays at any major casino on the Vegas Strip there isn't much a $25. average bet will get you. However, given enough hours, I suppose any average bet will eventually add up to some comps.
You want to gamble in a casino but not with your life.
Or in my case, perhaps playing with yellow chips means as little as green chips to another player.
It's all relative.
But in any case, win, lose or draw - the comps will flow.
Quote: MDawgWell, I see people gambling millions, winning and losing, to them perhaps the millions mean as little as green chips to another player.
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Or in my case, perhaps playing with yellow chips means as little as green chips to another player.
It's all relative.
But in any case, win, lose or draw - the comps will flow.
Would you be able to bet with yellow chips if you didnt have other resources to fall back on?
In my case, additionally, if I did start losing - definitely if I started losing big, I'd just quit playing entirely. I can see the attraction to some back and forth, win some, lose some, but if someone were losing constantly I'd think that would be no fun at all.
Quote: AxelWolfIf you have the ability to make millions in a short time with a betting system, you don't think you could adequately self insure and have a retirement plan?
Doesn't it depend on your own cost of living and the variance you run into?
I have heard too many times that players have +EV but because of variance they suffer six months of losses before they turn a profit.
Its during that time when variance hits you hard that you need the security of the "regular job."
My buddy happens to live in the suburbs of NYC where it costs $30 to park when you go to a restaurant and you have tolls or have to pay mass transit fares to get to work. It's not living in a low tax state like Nevada.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/36405-why-do-people-gamble-anyway/
"I think in a lifetime - everyone's a loser" and then added, "But the thrill of being able to win today, lose next month, win the year after, I think it's the challenge, I think it's the thrill, I think it's the entertainment in the city."
In his case however,
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/36405-why-do-people-gamble-anyway/2/#post823752
he ended up an Uber driver (broke or not). That doesn’t sound like responsible gambling, or fun!
As I think about that Theroux documentary, I think about how his host was barely able to scrape up a $3000. Neiman Marcus gift card for him during his stay. That seems weak. Back in the day, one of the Vegas casinos gave me a $2000. N-M gift card, and I wasn't betting anywhere near where Allan bets. And recently, I received some $12K in Visa gift cards.
Then again, the guy hadn't dumped that much money yet - by the end of the trip Allan was saying that he'd have been happy with a quarter million loss which implies that he lost much more. Maybe by the end of the trip they gave him more gift cards. Or maybe by the time he lost all that, he was so numb that he didn't even care about the comps.
What's interesting though is that in the documentary the host was discussing with management how much Allan had lost, at the moment that they settled on a $3000. gift card for him. The recent gift cards and "casino spending dollars" I have received have been based on theo loss and I have been told that these accumulate almost entirely based on theo loss and that actual loss would barely move the needle on these particular categories of comps, at these particular casinos.
And those free play chips... what kind are they? The "use once on even money bets only" or the "as live chips" variety?
More recently, I received $12,000. in Visa gift cards.
The free play chips vary. At some casinos they are play until you lose, at some they are one time bet only. When I won a Baccarat tournament recently I received tens of thousands in promotional chips (play until you lose) - that is the way they pay those tournaments out - in promo chips, not cash.
I've played in tournaments where the top prize was as much as $100,000 in free play chips but I never asked if they were one time even money chips or "as live" chips.
Just before the pandemic I won an hourly drawing for $500 of free play chips at Red Rock. They were one time even money chips.
I havent seen "as live" chips probably in a decade.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDoesn't it depend on your own cost of living and the variance you run into?
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I have heard too many times that players have +EV but because of variance they suffer six months of losses before they turn a profit.
Its during that time when variance hits you hard that you need the security of the "regular job."
My buddy happens to live in the suburbs of NYC where it costs $30 to park when you go to a restaurant and you have tolls or have to pay mass transit fares to get to work. It's not living in a low tax state like Nevada.
Mass transit fares aren't expensive. A monthly pass covering both subway and bus across the entire NY region will set you back $132 I think.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonDoesn't it depend on your own cost of living and the variance you run into?
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I have heard too many times that players have +EV but because of variance they suffer six months of losses before they turn a profit.
Its during that time when variance hits you hard that you need the security of the "regular job."
My buddy happens to live in the suburbs of NYC where it costs $30 to park when you go to a restaurant and you have tolls or have to pay mass transit fares to get to work. It's not living in a low tax state like Nevada.
Mass transit fares aren't expensive. A monthly pass covering both subway and bus across the entire NY region will set you back $132 I think.link to original post
How about taking your car across the George Washington Bridge? It's $16 one time. It's $11.75 for regular commuters.
Quote: AlanMendelsonlink to original post
I havent seen "as live" chips probably in a decade.
We have done away with the live chip promos years ago. It is all one time use, even money wagers only.
For those of you that don’t know, live promo chips were virtually the same as real chips and you maintained them until you lost the wager with them. One time use are chips that are taken and paid with real chips, but you lose them even after a winning hand. In the case of a tie or a push, you maintain possession of them.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonDoesn't it depend on your own cost of living and the variance you run into?
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I have heard too many times that players have +EV but because of variance they suffer six months of losses before they turn a profit.
Its during that time when variance hits you hard that you need the security of the "regular job."
My buddy happens to live in the suburbs of NYC where it costs $30 to park when you go to a restaurant and you have tolls or have to pay mass transit fares to get to work. It's not living in a low tax state like Nevada.
Mass transit fares aren't expensive. A monthly pass covering both subway and bus across the entire NY region will set you back $132 I think.link to original post
How about taking your car across the George Washington Bridge? It's $16 one time. It's $11.75 for regular commuters.link to original post
You aren't speaking in the mindset of a New Yorker.
We don't drive! Subway is faster and cheaper in the city.
GW Bridge goes to New Jersey. Of course people in NJ can only think about cars. They willing to pay $16 tolls let them.
This has already been discussed by you and other in a different thread. IIRC you asked similar questions and all were answered. Tell me what people who own their own small buissesee do? Again, we are not talking about Advantage Players, we are talking about guys who claim they can beat baccarat.Quote: AlanMendelsonWhat security does an AP have if they get sick? Or have an accident?
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Who pays the premiums for the self insurance you set up?
Does a young AP have the discipline to set aside savings from day one?
My pension plan, funded by my employers, started in 1972. I never would have had the discipline to make similar contributions till my retirement in 2018. I am now guaranteed health insurance for life over and above what I get from Medicare.
How many APs also file taxes so they also have Social Security benefits in addition to their pensions or 401ks?
If an AP can maintain their income and their contributions to retirement and health insurance and file taxes as self employed so they get Social Security and Medicare then more power to them and congratulations are in order.
If you have a winning betting system, unless you have some debilitating illness that affects your mind there is no real need for any retirement plan. How old are you again? You are retired and yet you go gamble for fun frequently, now just imagine if you could be doing that while making millions.
Variance, what variance? These guys do nothing but WIN WIN WIN.
Quote: AxelWolf[If you have a winning betting system, unless you have some debilitating illness that affects your mind there is no real need for any retirement plan.
Gee. I really didnt think of that.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/36498-the-merits-of-public-transport/#post825640
Splitting threads is a one-shot exercise, so any further posts to this thread about the merits of public transport might get flagged for deletion.
Quote: MDawgYou will read a lot on the internet from people who are clearly straining to remember "how comps work" from some dim recollections of yesteryear or based on untested theory of "the way it must be," but I endeavor to tell you how it is based on my real world experience of TODAY.
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Real World and Real Experience as well as The way it REALLY WORKS, will be consistently challenged and accused of being fallacy by many.
Why? They have no clue, they are jealous, they are used to test mode only, their play not warranting but trivial comp, or I will just add drama and call you a fiction writer, and other similar things.
You are spot on in today’s high limit world.
Mdawg what you get has no bearing on anyone else. In fact others may do better than you with smaller bets.
And yes it's possible to get up front comps without any play, but it has to be based on ANTICIPATED play. Get comp'ed up front and do not play - see how many up front comp'ed offers will keep coming in. For example, a guy comes in, deposits some serious money, and the host gives a room comp for a few days up front. But if the guy never plays, he's almost definitely not getting invited back on a comp. There are games that people play to try to get more comps, and that's fine, but over time the casinos comp based on action, not talk. I know how to maximize comps better than most anyone I have come across, but that doesn't mean that I am not playing and building up that theo loss to justify all the comps.
Over all, numbers may vary, but 10% of actual loss and 35-40% of theo are standard on the Vegas Strip right now.
Quote: MDawgI wasn't referring to you when I referred to people making claims based on theory. You have posted real world examples, Alan. I think some of what you post is based on "offers" though - these are enticements to get you in the door - free rooms, food and beverage up front credits, or - in my case - promotional chips. For these, they are hoping that you will play enough to justify the up front comps. If you do not play enough, these offers will dry up.
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And yes it's possible to get up front comps without any play, but it has to be based on ANTICIPATED play. Get comp'ed up front and do not play - see how many up front comp'ed offers will keep coming in. For example, a guy comes in, deposits some serious money, and the host gives a room comp for a few days up front. But if the guy never plays, he's almost definitely not getting invited back on a comp. There are games that people play to try to get more comps, and that's fine, but over time the casinos comp based on action, not talk. I know how to maximize comps better than most anyone I have come across, but that doesn't mean that I am not playing and building up that theo loss to justify all the comps.
Over all, numbers may vary, but 10% of actual loss and 35-40% of theo are standard on the Vegas Strip right now.
So what's your point? You've said this a dozen times previously. What's new?
The perpetual comp machine requires a little more than stay at home theory. It requires action. At the casinos.
Said the guy who claims to have won some 60 hands of blackjack in a row. Not to mention the other many outrageous claims.Quote: MDawgOh, you know, just making it clear that one should perhaps not listen to people who are clearly talking about recollections from ancient history. Or talking about simple tricks to get comps that they think are not known already by everyone and the host's grandmother too.
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The perpetual comp machine requires a little more than stay at home theory. It requires action. At the casinos.
Not here Axel. Let's not hijack every thread into a discussion of the credibility of members who recollect things. Specifically do not make it into an attack on MDawg's credibility.Quote: AxelWolfSaid the guy who claims to have won some 60 hands of blackjack in a row. Not to mention the other many outrageous claims.link to original postQuote: MDawgOh, you know, just making it clear that one should perhaps not listen to people who are clearly talking about recollections from ancient history. Or talking about simple tricks to get comps that they think are not known already by everyone and the host's grandmother too.
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The perpetual comp machine requires a little more than stay at home theory. It requires action. At the casinos.
No penalty, this time.
Said the WMOAT.Quote: OnceDearNot here Axel. Let's not hijack every thread into a discussion of the credibility of members who recollect things. Specifically do not make it into an attack on MDawg's credibility.Quote: AxelWolfSaid the guy who claims to have won some 60 hands of blackjack in a row. Not to mention the other many outrageous claims.link to original postQuote: MDawgOh, you know, just making it clear that one should perhaps not listen to people who are clearly talking about recollections from ancient history. Or talking about simple tricks to get comps that they think are not known already by everyone and the host's grandmother too.
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The perpetual comp machine requires a little more than stay at home theory. It requires action. At the casinos.
No penalty, this time.link to original post
Oops, I'm sorry, I guess I should make a puke-worthy thread trying to kiss the moderator's gluteus maximi.
Quote: AxelWolfSaid the guy who claims to have won some 60 hands of blackjack in a row. Not to mention the other many outrageous claims.link to original postQuote: MDawgOh, you know, just making it clear that one should perhaps not listen to people who are clearly talking about recollections from ancient history. Or talking about simple tricks to get comps that they think are not known already by everyone and the host's grandmother too.
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The perpetual comp machine requires a little more than stay at home theory. It requires action. At the casinos.
The other day I was taking a stroll on the strip after crushing the tables and taking my vitamins,
You know what I saw? 60 Hoe's in a Row!
