Perpetual COMP machine
Quote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.
Quote: WizardQuote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.link to original post
For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge.
Then for about a year he claimed he was an advantage player with a hidden edge he couldn't discuss unless someone wanted to watch him for $50,000 if memory serves.
Then he described an advantage that involves guessing the flow of the cards, said description not considered an advantage by any literature written on WOO and probably derided as useless systems on your other site.
Currently he claims to have "perpetual comps" (his words) while never showing any losses to Casinos in essence claiming casinos will comp forever even when a player consistently wins at negative -ev games. No suspicion, no questions (in fact his hosts compliment him on the fact he always wins).
He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay and he described one trip where the casino said he rated for full RFB but not for freeplay!
So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?Quote: darkozQuote: AxelWolfBut something YOU wouldn't pay more than 50% for.
link to original post
Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
It's true, I wouldn't.
Using my methods I can achieve obtaining Freeplay for around 20%.
Paying 50% is paying more for something I can get for less.
Also if I remember that conversation came out of the Pennsylvania Sands bus rebate where people sold $45 Freeplay for $40. Now that's people buying Freeplay just for a $5 advantage lol.
(And I felt it was the correct amount there too)link to original post
He has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't play with an advantage and even went so far as to poopoo those who rely on mathematical advantages to win.Quote: WizardQuote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.link to original post
Quote: AxelWolfSo you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?link to original postQuote: darkozQuote: AxelWolfBut something YOU wouldn't pay more than 50% for.
link to original post
Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
It's true, I wouldn't.
Using my methods I can achieve obtaining Freeplay for around 20%.
Paying 50% is paying more for something I can get for less.
Also if I remember that conversation came out of the Pennsylvania Sands bus rebate where people sold $45 Freeplay for $40. Now that's people buying Freeplay just for a $5 advantage lol.
(And I felt it was the correct amount there too)link to original post
What's a lifetime of freeplay?
If you mean for the rest of my life I get $10 a week and can get this $520 per year value for $210 a year upfront but I have to play each $10 as I get it, then no, it's not worth it.
And how do I predict how many years up front I have to pay for? What if I live another thirty years?
Quote: WizardQuote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.link to original post
He has alluded to soooooo many different things that it’s hard to keep track, you observed him and seem to say he had some edge, you know what it is and I’m guessing it’s not something he could have explain to Marcus Clark over the phone . So this doesn’t sound all
That kosher to me: I also remeber him saying multiple times he doesn’t even get freeplay are so many diff things he said that make me sit and ponder . So much about mdawg and his claims make me sit and question. How you can allow someone to post on here for so long about things that are more and more against the odds the longer they go.
Quote: AxelWolfSo you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?
link to original post
Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.
Quote: AxelWolfSo you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.
link to original post
Why is the casino take only $275. on a $25K blowout loss? Is it not $25K?
Quote: AxelWolflink to original post
"The way it is"? So you're telling me that if I hit up 10 different casinos on the strip betting 1 hand of baccarat(or any table game) for 25k, if I won half my bets, and lost half my bets... I would have $12,500 minimum in Comps? And does this include craps while taking odds if you lose?
Why would you think that the theoretical loss X 35 - 40% would equal $12,500 for that situation? Is that your calculation for the number of hours played X average bet X house edge?
The CURRENT comp rate for actual loss on the Vegas Strip at any high end resort – I play at a variety of them I cannot speak for the dumps – is 10%. End of story.
The CURRENT comp rate for theoretical loss on the Vegas Strip at any high end resort – I play at a variety of them I cannot speak for the dumps – is 35 to 40%. End of story.
Both of these may be adjusted slightly so as to not leave a regular player holding the bag for RFB or spa expenses at the end of a trip.
Quote: AxelWolfHe has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't play with an advantage and even went so far as to poopoo those who rely on mathematical advantages to win.
link to original post
Please provide the quotes for when I said that on more than one occasion, no less. Emphases added.
Quote: darkozlink to original post
For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge.
Then for about a year he claimed he was an advantage player with a hidden edge he couldn't discuss unless someone wanted to watch him for $50,000 if memory serves.
Then he described an advantage that involves guessing the flow of the cards, said description not considered an advantage by any literature written on WOO and probably derided as useless systems on your other site.
Currently he claims to have "perpetual comps" (his words) while never showing any losses to Casinos in essence claiming casinos will comp forever even when a player consistently wins at negative -ev games. No suspicion, no questions (in fact his hosts compliment him on the fact he always wins).
He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay and he described one trip where the casino said he rated for full RFB but not for freeplay!
Please provide quotes to support each of these assertions. You are asserting affirmative claims by me not implied ones, so you should have no problem direct quoting to support what you claim I said. Emphases added.
Quote: sabreIt is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation. If that manner was +EV, then that poster never alluded to +EV play once. They alluded to -EV play based on progressions, card flow, and other voodoo repeatedly. Dozens of times in fact.
link to original post
If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision
If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.
If he's playing +EV and he's encouraging others to pay exorbitant withdrawal fees to play +EV then I honestly have no idea what this whole dog and pony show is about
Those are some serious accusations. Please provide the quotes to back up what you claim. You seem to be claiming that I "tell others" to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees. I actually recall writing more than once about advising people never to gamble with money they cannot afford to lose, and also recall stating specifically that once a person is standing in line at the cashier waiting for a cash advance against a credit card, that s/he is in real trouble.
There is another member here whose posts are blocked to me I logged out and glanced at a few of his posts. Indecipherable: I don't know if it's speak to text problems, or just plain poor grammar but I believe there are statements from that one too that he should back up with direct quotes.
Quote: WizardQuote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.link to original post
So it's incumbent on me to state that I play with an advantage and describe the advantage, or to state that I play with an advantage?
Quote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfHe has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't play with an advantage and even went so far as to poopoo those who rely on mathematical advantages to win.
link to original post
Please provide the quotes for when I said that on more than one occasion, no less. Emphases added.Quote: darkozlink to original post
For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge.
Then for about a year he claimed he was an advantage player with a hidden edge he couldn't discuss unless someone wanted to watch him for $50,000 if memory serves.
Then he described an advantage that involves guessing the flow of the cards, said description not considered an advantage by any literature written on WOO and probably derided as useless systems on your other site.
Currently he claims to have "perpetual comps" (his words) while never showing any losses to Casinos in essence claiming casinos will comp forever even when a player consistently wins at negative -ev games. No suspicion, no questions (in fact his hosts compliment him on the fact he always wins).
He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay and he described one trip where the casino said he rated for full RFB but not for freeplay!
Please provide quotes to support each of these assertions. You are asserting affirmative claims by me not implied ones, so you should have no problem direct quoting to support what you claim I said. Emphases added.Quote: sabreIt is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation. If that manner was +EV, then that poster never alluded to +EV play once. They alluded to -EV play based on progressions, card flow, and other voodoo repeatedly. Dozens of times in fact.
link to original post
If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision
If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.
If he's playing +EV and he's encouraging others to pay exorbitant withdrawal fees to play +EV then I honestly have no idea what this whole dog and pony show is about
Those are some serious accusations. Please provide the quotes to back up what you claim. You seem to be claiming that I "tell others" to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees. I actually recall writing more than once about advising people never to gamble with money they cannot afford to lose, and also recall stating specifically that once a person is standing in line at the cashier waiting for a cash advance against a credit card, that s/he is in real trouble.
There is another member here whose posts are blocked to me I logged out and glanced at a few of his posts. Indecipherable: I don't know if it's speak to text problems, or just plain poor grammar but I believe there are statements from that one too that he should back up with direct quotes.Quote: WizardQuote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.link to original post
So it's incumbent on me to state that I play with an advantage and describe the advantage, or to state that I play with an advantage?link to original post
There are enough people who read and back up what I said that I don't need to peruse hundreds of pages of your threads looking for your statements.
Here is just one from this current thread where you basically say you receive comps with incurring no losses.
Quote: MDawglink to original post
After we had been here a couple months, some of my friends started saying, "You could probably just stay there forever without spending a dime." At the time, I thought, maybe, maybe not, but right now - actually - it seems that I could. Would want to, is of course a different matter.
From what I've learned comps for machine players are usually one-tenth of one percent of coin in. This means players on typical full pay VP games such as 8/5 Bonus and 9/6 Jacks need more than comps to be +EV. And yes there are such things that can bring these players to +EV.
But table players... it's not that easy.
We know about the problems rating table players. Do floormen accurately track their play? Do their bets vary? What happens during a shift change? There are so many problems rating table play with comps.
Mdawg mentioned $2500 comps on $25000. Sure its possible if you played long enough. It's also possible if you're a good customer and your return trip is expected.
I've been comped "in advance" because the host simply expected my future action.
The bottom line is anything is possible.
But in the case I wrote about a player didnt meet the requirement of four hours of play per day. Not getting comps after losing $25k is also possible.
You don't know if that person did or did not get comp'ed in the end for his $25K blowout loss, all you know is that there was an issue over it.
Quote: darkozQuote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfHe has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't play with an advantage and even went so far as to poopoo those who rely on mathematical advantages to win.
link to original post
Please provide the quotes for when I said that on more than one occasion, no less. Emphases added.Quote: darkozlink to original post
For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge.
Then for about a year he claimed he was an advantage player with a hidden edge he couldn't discuss unless someone wanted to watch him for $50,000 if memory serves.
Then he described an advantage that involves guessing the flow of the cards, said description not considered an advantage by any literature written on WOO and probably derided as useless systems on your other site.
Currently he claims to have "perpetual comps" (his words) while never showing any losses to Casinos in essence claiming casinos will comp forever even when a player consistently wins at negative -ev games. No suspicion, no questions (in fact his hosts compliment him on the fact he always wins).
He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay and he described one trip where the casino said he rated for full RFB but not for freeplay!
Please provide quotes to support each of these assertions. You are asserting affirmative claims by me not implied ones, so you should have no problem direct quoting to support what you claim I said. Emphases added.Quote: sabreIt is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation. If that manner was +EV, then that poster never alluded to +EV play once. They alluded to -EV play based on progressions, card flow, and other voodoo repeatedly. Dozens of times in fact.
link to original post
If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision
If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.
If he's playing +EV and he's encouraging others to pay exorbitant withdrawal fees to play +EV then I honestly have no idea what this whole dog and pony show is about
Those are some serious accusations. Please provide the quotes to back up what you claim. You seem to be claiming that I "tell others" to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees. I actually recall writing more than once about advising people never to gamble with money they cannot afford to lose, and also recall stating specifically that once a person is standing in line at the cashier waiting for a cash advance against a credit card, that s/he is in real trouble.
There is another member here whose posts are blocked to me I logged out and glanced at a few of his posts. Indecipherable: I don't know if it's speak to text problems, or just plain poor grammar but I believe there are statements from that one too that he should back up with direct quotes.Quote: WizardQuote: billryanHas he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post
I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.link to original post
So it's incumbent on me to state that I play with an advantage and describe the advantage, or to state that I play with an advantage?link to original post
There are enough people who read and back up what I said that I don't need to peruse hundreds of pages of your threads looking for your statements.
Here is just one from this current thread where you basically say you receive comps with incurring no losses.link to original postQuote: MDawglink to original post
After we had been here a couple months, some of my friends started saying, "You could probably just stay there forever without spending a dime." At the time, I thought, maybe, maybe not, but right now - actually - it seems that I could. Would want to, is of course a different matter.
You have misquoted me then, you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses. That is not the same thing as my stating that my over all net is positive. I have posted about losing sessions. Indeed you yourself even once referred to how I lost a large sum at a casino and that that casino didn't give a rat's *** (to use your exact language as best I may recall) about that I won at another casino, as far as giving a loss rebate or other comps.
Additionally, I do not recall ever stating affirmatively that I do not play with an advantage. So, where is your proof and AxelWolf's that I stated this? because the way you state the above it makes me appear as though I flipflop between different contentions. Just because I do not say or did not say for a period of time that I play with an advantage does not mean that I specifically stated that I do not play with an advantage. For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge. I believe you are again putting words in my mouth.
Also, where is your proof that He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay. I have posted about getting promotional chips many times. Indeed, I have directly pointed out before that you are completely in the wrong to claim that I said this, and yet here you are repeating it again. There was one time that I posted about getting promotional chips in the past and then stated that I did not recall getting any recently, and then came back later and referred to a post from the not so distant past that did in fact refer to the promotional chips. However to say that I say that I do not get offered any Freeplay, is a mischaracterization of what I have said.
Over all, I believe that what you are doing here is misquoting or mischaracterizing what I have said directly, in order to make me look inconsistent. If I am wrong in saying that, please provide the direct quotes of mine to support what you are saying about me.
You then double down in the very next paragraph by saying not only are you not losing at all but winning.
Quote: MDawg
I created this thread about how comps work - in fact casinos give only 10% of an actual loss, but 35-40% of a theoretical loss, for comps. If I were losing, I'd have to be dumping somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.5M to have had them comp these six months in Vegas - obviously I'm not losing like that. The only realistic way to sustain a long term casino stay is via extended play WITHOUT LOSING AT ALL or without losing much.
ACTUALLY, I AM WINNING, but in any case, almost all of our comps are based on theoretical loss. Realistically, there is pretty much no way anyone could stay in Vegas an extended period unless he kept playing and avoided blow outs. Blow outs lead to minimal comps. Extended play leads to real comps. Which is why I view this as a perpetual comp machine 😆 since it requires no cash input, just cash availability, to keep going.
And again, you yourself even referred to a time when I lost big (mid five figures) at one casino and then paid it off with winnings from another, so you know very well that I lose sometimes.
The net over all ahead is not the same as saying I never lose. No cash input = no net cash input. You of all people should understand the concept of "net ahead" - in that you say that you lose at slots but make it up in "comps" (freeplay).
As well, when I said "The only realistic way to sustain a long term casino stay is via extended play WITHOUT LOSING AT ALL or without losing much." that was a general statement which happens to be true.
I believe your intent in posting whatever you posted was to make me look inconsistent. Where is the backup?
Quote: MDawgAgain, I never said that I do not lose - I post losing sessions. I have posted losing session(s) in the six figure range either here or at another forum (might have been during my WOV suspension, so, might have been posted elsewhere).
link to original post
The net over all ahead is not the same as saying I never lose. You of all people should understand the concept of "net ahead" - in that you say that you lose at slots but make it up in "comps" (freeplay).
I believe your intent in posting whatever you posted was to make me look inconsistent. Where is the backup?
Obviously when someone says they never lose the literal interpretation is understood not to mean individual spins, hands or sessions.
Does anyone really believe if someone claims to never lose that 100 out of 100 spins at roulette are being won? Obviously everyone would interpret the "I never lose" comment as being overall losses vs wins.
It is now you who are trying to twist meanings. You have made claims before that you are not a loser and that overall play you are consistently a winner.
No, you never claimed to win EVERY SINGLE HAND OF BACCARAT PLAYED NOR EVERY SESSION. But you have claimed to never be a loser on an extended trip.
Nor have you provided the backup for that I have stated that I never get any promotional chips. Like I said, one time I forgot about some promo chips I had received in the not so distant past, but I have never stated that I "never" get promotional chips!
What are these? I found 'em on the ground? That's a pic of some promo chips I received at some point during the past six months; by no means all of the promo chips I have received recently.
I don't take pics of everything, but if you like I'll show you thousands in promo chips I receive over the course of the next weeks.
Buried within the very first post of this thread:
Quote: MDawg
For example, on a recent trip I played in the area of around seventy some (under eighty) hours at an average of $1200. a hand, at table games, and earned just about $80,000. in theoretical loss., and notwithstanding that I won over fifty grand on the trip, this theo loss against 40%, earned me over $30,000. in comps.
How is this thread not just a new discussion of MDawg hidden adventures?
Already by page ten there are the same challenges being made and similar threats of multiple suspension that made the original MDawg adventures such a hotbed of contention that it needed to be hidden?
I post real world examples of real world events in tune with the topic, and you claim that this is somehow wrong? Alan posted an example of his friend who was challenged on the -25K blowout loss comp.
But now that you guys have turned it into a discussion of WHAT MDAWG CLAIMS: I am asking you to post the backup for what you claim MDawg claims/ has said.
Quote: MDawgYou guys made it that. I posted an example of how theo loss works. "For example."
link to original post
I post real world examples of real world events in tune with the topic, and you claim that this is somehow wrong? Alan posted an example of his friend who was challenged on the -25K blowout loss comp.
But now that you guys have turned it into a discussion of WHAT MDAWG CLAIMS: I am asking you to post the backup for what you claim MDawg claims/ has said.
Said quotes which are to be found in the hidden MDawg adventures thread.
So basically un-hidiing past quotes from that thread.
Quote: MDawgAgain, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.
link to original post
Mdawg instead of this argument why don't you just clear it up for us. What are your exact wins and losses?
State them by day, week, trip, whatever way... so we're all clear on this.
I created it to discuss the way comps are calculated, to discuss what I view as a method for a perpetual comp machine, and explained how it has worked for me.
But if people are going to put words in my mouth on something that is tangentially related to the topic, I'd at least like to see where I said whatever it is that they claim I said.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MDawgAgain, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.
link to original post
Mdawg instead of this argument why don't you just clear it up for us. What are your exact wins and losses?
State them by day, week, trip, whatever way... so we're all clear on this.link to original post
Lol, so now you are inviting MDawg to give descriptions of his gambling adventures?
SMH!
Absolutely NOT. MDawg has indeed injected much of his hidden thread into this one. He didn't need much encouragement, but has not broken any rules.Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MDawgAgain, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.
link to original post
Mdawg instead of this argument why don't you just clear it up for us. What are your exact wins and losses?
State them by day, week, trip, whatever way... so we're all clear on this.link to original post
Lol, so now you are inviting MDawg to give descriptions of his gambling adventures?
SMH!link to original post
Quote: MDawgIs that really what this thread is supposed to be about?
link to original post
I created it to discuss the way comps are calculated, to discuss what I view as a method for a perpetual comp machine, and explained how it has worked for me.
But if people are going to put words in my mouth on something that is tangentially related to the topic, I'd at least like to see where I said whatever it is that they claim I said.
Bullcrap. This is just another thread where you brag about how great you are, how you constantly get over on casinos and defy the laws of math. Evidently, the only person you have bamboozled is Mr. Wizard.
Quote: billryanEvidently, the only person you have bamboozled is Mr. Wizard.
link to original post
Good morning BillRyan.
Quote: billryanQuote: gordonm888Quote: billryanIt's not a nasty post. It is the truth. The average tourist isn't going near a hi-roller table so claiming that learning about the hi-roller life is essential is not particularly useful advice. You are welcome to a dissenting opinion. So am I.
link to original post
If you believe that your function in this forum is to respond to WOV posts by saying that you found the post not interesting, and you persist in doing that then the moderators will have a discussion about whether that constitutes trolling.
I imagine that everyone on this forum finds some number of posts not interesting, but it is not Billryan's role to review posts and then make an additional post that calls out posts that he finds uninteresting. No forum functions like that and this forum does not function like that.link to original post
My function on this forum is to post what I want, when I want. If you think that merits a discussion among the moderators, go for it. Perhaps you should take your own advice- if you don't like what a poster says, don't read it.link to original post
You wouldn't be interested in following the advice you quoted? And are you saying that your function of posting what you want, when you want, should be left to you alone?
Why does anyone have to be "bamboozled"? If Wizard allows you to post what you want, why would you think he'd fetter another's free speech?
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MDawgAgain, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.
link to original post
Mdawg instead of this argument why don't you just clear it up for us. What are your exact wins and losses?
State them by day, week, trip, whatever way... so we're all clear on this.link to original post
Lol, so now you are inviting MDawg to give descriptions of his gambling adventures?
SMH!link to original post
I would like to compare Mdawg's play to the value of his comps.
I doubt he gets the value he claims.
First of all, hotel rooms including suites, are basically free. Even the Evil Empire handed out free rooms like nickel candy.
If Mdawg is as big a player as he claims I think the true value of his comps is one-tenth of one percent of his sction... not some double digit percentage unless he's a big loser.
Quote: billryanQuote: MDawgIs that really what this thread is supposed to be about?
link to original post
I created it to discuss the way comps are calculated, to discuss what I view as a method for a perpetual comp machine, and explained how it has worked for me.
But if people are going to put words in my mouth on something that is tangentially related to the topic, I'd at least like to see where I said whatever it is that they claim I said.
Bullcrap. This is just another thread where you brag about how great you are, how you constantly get over on casinos and defy the laws of math. Evidently, the only person you have bamboozled is Mr. Wizard.link to original post
I'm not going to penalise for the word 'BullCrap', which I consider the mildest of expetives.
I concur to an extent that much of this thread has been a thinly veiled extension of MDawg's Adventures thread. All about how 'it works for me'
Obviously MDawg has referenced his massive and incredible winning ways to explain his massive and incredible comps. Mdawg has provided 'evidence' of both.
Members here are not obliged to post 'The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth'
Members here are not obliged to believe everything or anything within the posts of others.
I invite Mdawg to not take every tangential reference to be an invitation to reference his adventures.
Quote: AlanMendelsonlink to original post
I would like to compare Mdawg's play to the value of his comps.
I doubt he gets the value he claims.
First of all, hotel rooms including suites, are basically free. Even the Evil Empire handed out free rooms like nickel candy.
If Mdawg is as big a player as he claims I think the true value of his comps is one-tenth of one percent of his sction... not some double digit percentage unless he's a big loser.
WIN statements (which are available only after the end of the year anyway) would show the total win, but still wouldn't be enough to evaluate the comps extended. Indeed, knowing how much someone won in the aggregate might not help figure comps at all, for example if someone ended up dead even at the end of the year, still he might've generated massive massive comps along the way.
Theo loss is based on average bet / number of hours played / house edge.
Win $50K in one hand, walk away - not much theo loss, not much comps. Win $50K over ten hours at average $1500. a hand, that's a lot of theo, and a lot of comps.
Which is why the answers to your question would still not address it entirely.
You like to investigate things. How about going to Resorts World and Venetian, just for example, finding a top host, and asking what % of actual loss they comp, and what % of theo loss they comp.
By the way hotel suites are by no means free. Especially nowadays - the casino model is (or at least definitely was, pre-Covid) gravitating more and more towards trying to make money off non-gamblers. You're talking about something from the past, about hotel rooms being considered as automatic freebies by the casino. And maybe you missed this discussion:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/gambling/36459-perpetual-comp-machine/#post824767
about how the average high end resort Vegas hotel room costs something like a million or more to build, such that the hotel needs to recover that somehow, such that - hotel rooms are far from "free."
Venetian did have some of that available at low prices for a period, but their prices are on the rise again too.
During Covid, actual loss comps were being handed out at 15%. Back to 10% again now. Contact Venetian or Resorts World if you want to verify.
Again, you're talking about the past. A short period of the past no less.
Anyway, what's your point? Whatever the suite room rack rate is, or less (casino rate, etc.), is where the room comp value is figured. That rate is never 0.
According to you the casinos are getting their clocks cleaned by you at the tables and then again with comps.
Sorry. Doesnt make sense. Certainly doesnt make business sense.
But it would make sense if your comps equaled one-tenth of one percent of your betting, plus the free rooms.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MDawgAgain, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.
link to original post
Mdawg instead of this argument why don't you just clear it up for us. What are your exact wins and losses?
State them by day, week, trip, whatever way... so we're all clear on this.link to original post
MDawg does close to that in his basically hidden thread. He describes a few plays of interest, and how much he won or lost during the day. He’s done that for something like 100 days! What more can you want thats reasonable?
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MDawgAgain, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.
link to original post
Mdawg instead of this argument why don't you just clear it up for us. What are your exact wins and losses?
State them by day, week, trip, whatever way... so we're all clear on this.link to original post
MDawg does close to that in his basically hidden thread. He describes a few plays of interest, and how much he won or lost during the day. He’s done that for something like 100 days! What more can you want thats reasonable?link to original post
Just totals. Total bets made. Total value of comps. Two numbers.
My last year playing at Caesars I had a tier score just over 1 million points. That was the equivalent of three and a third Seven Stars. My comps over and above free rooms were not double digit percentages.
Quote: MDawg
During Covid, actual loss comps were being handed out at 15%. Back to 10% again now. Contact Venetian or Resorts World if you want to verify.
Remember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
Quote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.
Quote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!
Quote: billryanEvidently, the only person you have bamboozled is Mr. Wizard.
link to original post
Personal insult. Three days.
Quote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.link to original post
Wrong. If the premise is that you get 10% of your ACTUAL loss back in comps, the loser gets $100k in comps.
In the real world I AGREE with you. That’s why I’m saying NO ONE in authority will categorically guarantee you that 10%. If you bet $5k a hand at baccarat and end up down $100k after a bad run of 4 hours, then of course I could see you being comped $10k, likely more.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.link to original post
You doubt wrong.
In fact it's called doey-don't system and if you can get it past prying eyes (yes that can be done too) it works just fine.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.link to original post
You doubt wrong.
In fact it's called doey-don't system and if you can get it past prying eyes (yes that can be done too) it works just fine.link to original post
Doey dont. What happens when the 12 is rolled? Passline loses and DP gets a push.
That's the house edge on both sides.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.link to original post
You doubt wrong.
In fact it's called doey-don't system and if you can get it past prying eyes (yes that can be done too) it works just fine.link to original post
Doey dont. What happens when the 12 is rolled? Passline loses and DP gets a push.
That's the house edge on both sides.link to original post
The real question is what happens when two people each get their offers in the mail.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.link to original post
You doubt wrong.
In fact it's called doey-don't system and if you can get it past prying eyes (yes that can be done too) it works just fine.link to original post
Doey dont. What happens when the 12 is rolled? Passline loses and DP gets a push.
That's the house edge on both sides.link to original post
The real question is what happens when two people each get their offers in the mail.link to original post
My mail offers have only been a fraction of my comps. Heck, my wedding was comped... Rabbi, still and video photographers, lunch, dinner, champagne at the craps table and all. And it was a $5 table for my guests.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: billryanQuote: SOOPOORemember, I am a guppy so have no real personal experience with high level comps. But I find it hard to believe there is someone you can ‘call’ at Venetian or Resorts World that will say out loud…. “We will comp you 10% of your actual loss”. Wouldn’t they need to be more vague?
link to original post
If not, I can round up $1,000,000, bet it on the pass line, win $1,000,000 49% of the time and lose $1,000,000 51% of the time, but get $100,000 in comps? Numbers approximate, concept is valid.
you and your wife could each bet 500,000 on opposite sides for an hour and end up owning the joint.link to original post
Yes and this type of scheme has worked at some places in the past so waaah waaah waaah!link to original post
No, it won't work at craps. There's a house edge on both sides, and I doubt the comps will erase the house edge.
Back to the starting point.link to original post
You doubt wrong.
In fact it's called doey-don't system and if you can get it past prying eyes (yes that can be done too) it works just fine.link to original post
Doey dont. What happens when the 12 is rolled? Passline loses and DP gets a push.
That's the house edge on both sides.link to original post
The real question is what happens when two people each get their offers in the mail.link to original post
My mail offers have only been a fraction of my comps. Heck, my wedding was comped... Rabbi, still and video photographers, lunch, dinner, champagne at the craps table and all. And it was a $5 table for my guests.link to original post
I understand your experience with comps leads you to the conclusion they cannot be taken advantage of.
There are professional comp hustlers who understand how to make a profit.
I can't tell you more than that. Secrets of the trade.
I play private tables these days so there is no one else at my table, period, if that is what anyone is getting at in my case. Also at the Wizard observed session which was at a public table I won and although a couple of small players did show up at some point during the session there was no betting in symmetry going on. Anyway, I am sure we are well beyond that sort of accusation. I recall AxelWolf was thinking that I might be up to something like that early on when I arrived at the scene, but after my Wizard observed session he posted
Hell, I got a free wedding.
I had twenty people for Thanksgiving weekend with Thanksgiving dinner and comped rooms.
I can list comps forever.
But I cant accept that Strip casinos routinely comp 10% or 15% of theo for players who are big winners.
Quote: AlanMendelsonlink to original post
But I cant accept that Strip casinos routinely comp 10% or 15% of theo for players who are big winners.
They don't comp 10 or 15% of theo, they comp 35 or 40% of theo. Win, lose or draw, that's the way it works.
Banned from the casino entirely? That's a different story, but as long as the player is still playing, the comp machine keeps flowing.
