Perpetual COMP machine
First let’s discuss the two ways that casinos comp players. Obviously, play must be rated, via a Player Card, so anyone playing under the radar is not going to get any comps, let alone understand the comp system.
Comps are used to pay for a player’s stay related expenses while in a resort, expenses such as room food beverage (the three RFBs), spa & salon (massage, skincare, haircuts and styling, manicure, pedicure, etc.), events (concerts, sports, and so on) and, at the upper limit of the comp spectrum, special activities arranged for the player.
A player’s casino action also results in invitations to special events, tournaments and the receipt of gift cards, promotional (free play) chips at the tables, or free spin play at slots. Some casinos build up points or “casino dollars” based on play that may be used to buy food and retail at either casino shops, or online.
Comps are handed out based on two different bases:
1) Actual loss. Typically 10% of an actual loss is available for a player’s comps.
a. This was up to 15% during certain periods, such as for example last year during COVID some resorts were giving 15% of actual loss, but 10% is the norm.
2) Theoretical (theo) loss. Typically 35% and up to 40% of a player’s theoretical loss is available for comps. Theo loss is calculated based on what the player is expected to lose, based on average bet times number of hours played against whatever the house edge is on the game being played.
For a weekend or other relatively short play, either of these will do to cover a guest’s resort expenses. But for extended plays, really the only sustainable or even viable way to keep the comp machine going is via comps earned via theoretical loss action.
Actual loss, when considering high end casino stays in, for example, $1000. a night suites, notwithstanding food and beverage charges, just won’t sustain an extended stay. For example, to cover a 10 day long stay in a casino in a large suite, about $15,000. in comps are needed, if it is a nice stay with decent food and spa services included. To earn $15,000. in comps via a loss, $150,000. in actual loss is needed – and most players don’t even have credit lines or cash available to gamble at that level, let alone are able to afford losing $150K in the first place.
When you get into stay lengths of longer than 10 days, it becomes even more unlikely that a player would be earning his keep via actual loss, as the required loss numbers to earn all those comps pile up even higher.
No, what really earns the comps, and keeps the comp machine going, is not loss, but action, that is, play that results in either a win, or just the average loss attributable to the house edge.
Typically, player club points and casino dollars, too, are earned at a high rate pretty much by play, via theoretical loss, not via actual loss.
For example, on a recent trip I played in the area of around seventy some (under eighty) hours at an average of $1200. a hand, at table games, and earned just about $80,000. in theoretical loss., and notwithstanding that I won over fifty grand on the trip, this theo loss against 40%, earned me over $30,000. in comps. $30K in comps is more than enough to cover a very long stay, even a month long stay, if the suite is coming in at say, $600. or even $800. a day (which remember - sometimes the rate of which the suite is calculated for purposes of comps is lower than the "rack rate" which a non-gaming hotel guest might have to pay for the suite), which leaves room for food beverage and spa too.
And this is why, one guy might sit at the table and lose five grand, and get $500. in comps, and another might sit at the table, win barely $200., and earn a theo loss which would result in higher comps. Theo loss is the way to go, for max comps.
Granted, if you want to dine on caviar daily, in a villa, even this model is not going to work as far as keeping the perpetual comp machine going, unless you step up your average bet even higher than a thousand a hand. But the perpetual comp machine model – always involves building up theoretical loss. Blowouts do not lead to much comps. Continued play, does.
Quote: MDawgAs the title implies, this is a discussion about how to keep comps going in casinos, beyond the typically weekend, or few day long trip. As someone who has spent now a half year in Vegas suites without paying for anything, and has done more or less the same thing going back years, I am well qualified to comment on this.
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First let’s discuss the two ways that casinos comp players. Obviously, play must be rated, via a Player Card, so anyone playing under the radar is not going to get any comps, let alone understand the comp system.
Comps are used to pay for a player’s stay related expenses while in a resort, expenses such as room food beverage (the three RFBs), spa & salon (massage, skincare, haircuts and styling, manicure, pedicure, etc.), events (concerts, sports, and so on) and, at the upper limit of the comp spectrum, special activities arranged for the player.
A player’s casino action also results in invitations to special events, tournaments and the receipt of gift cards, promotional (free play) chips at the tables, or free spin play at slots. Some casinos build up points or “casino dollars” based on play that may be used to buy food and retail at either casino shops, or online.
Comps are handed out based on two different bases:
1) Actual loss. Typically 10% of an actual loss is available for a player’s comps.
a. This was up to 15% during certain periods, such as for example last year during COVID some resorts were giving 15% of actual loss, but 10% is the norm.
2) Theoretical (theo) loss. Typically 35% and up to 40% of a player’s theoretical loss is available for comps. Theo loss is calculated based on what the player is expected to lose, based on average bet times number of hours played against whatever the house edge is on the game being played.
For a weekend or other relatively short play, either of these will do to cover a guest’s resort expenses. But for extended plays, really the only sustainable or even viable way to keep the comp machine going is via comps earned via theoretical loss action.
Actual loss, when considering high end casino stays in, for example, $1000. a night suites, notwithstanding food and beverage charges, just won’t sustain an extended stay. For example, to cover a 10 day long stay in a casino in a large suite, about $15,000. in comps are needed, if it is a nice stay with decent food and spa services included. To earn $15,000. in comps via a loss, $150,000. in actual loss is needed – and most player don’t even have credit lines or cash available to gamble at that level, let alone are able to afford losing $150K in the first place.
When you get into stay lengths of longer than 10 days, it becomes even more unlikely that a player would be earning his keep via actual loss, as the required loss numbers to earn all those comps pile up even higher.
No, what really earns the comps, and keeps the comp machine going, is not loss, but action, that is, play that results in either a win, or just the average loss attributable to the house edge.
Typically, player club points and casino dollars, too, are earned at a high rate pretty much by play, via theoretical loss, not via actual loss.
For example, on a recent trip I played in the area of around seventy some (under eighty) hours at an average of $1200. a hand, at table games, and earned just about $80,000. in theoretical loss., and notwithstanding that I won over fifty grand on the trip, this theo loss against 40%, earned me over $30,000. in comps,. $30K in comps is more than enough to cover a very long stay, even a month long stay, if the suite is coming in at say, $600. or even $800. a day, which leaves room for food beverage and spa too.
And this is why, one guy might sit at the table and lose five grand, and get $500. in comps, and another might sit at the table, win barely $200., and earn a theo loss which would result in higher comps. Theo loss is the way to go, for max comps.
Granted, if you want to dine on caviar daily, in a villa, even this model is not going to work as far as keeping the perpetual comp machine going, unless you step up your average bet even higher than a thousand a hand. But the perpetual comp machine model – always involves building up theoretical loss. Blowouts do not lead to much comps. Continued play, does.
How do you keep the comps rolling in on the trip reports you post where you play barely 1 shoe and average bet say $1,000?
Wouldn't the casino want you to be playing while staying?
Quote: MDawgeven this model is not going to work
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ahhh your a model by trade this is where your bankroll and time comes from ;-)
Over all, this is the way we do it:
I check in to a resort and book it for say, 8 nights up front (no time for subtlety lately - I used to ask for just 4 nights or so, then extend, but these days I ask for a week or longer up front). Depending on the resort and the history of my play there, the trip might be comp'ed up front RFB, or might be room comp only with understanding that all food within reason will be comp'ed too.
During the course of the stay, I might play exclusively at the property we are in, or maybe additionally elsewhere.
As the 8 day mark approaches, based on my play, I have a feeling about whether it's time to just move on, or extend. If it seems like my play has gone beyond 8 days worth of RFB, I extend. If not, we move on, typically moving to whichever resort I have already played at without even staying, where comps are already set. Sometimes I have played at some other resort so much that by the time we arrive there I am already "owed" at least a week or even two of RFB up front.
The formula also depends on how much spa the wife has racked up. I want to make sure all of that is taken care of as well.
Additionally, as the end of the trip approaches I look at what promotions such as promo chips or such I might have coming for the next trip, and consult with the host to see if extending the stay will eat into those.
If I have booked a loss at a session at some resort along the way, then we move on to that resort. There are occasional losing sessions. But typically almost all of my comps are earned by theoretical loss where I have won.
After we had been here a couple months, some of my friends started saying, "You could probably just stay there forever without spending a dime." At the time, I thought, maybe, maybe not, but right now - actually - it seems that I could. Would want to, is of course a different matter.
Catchier, no? and mine implies longevity. Chasing implies never quite catching up.
Quote: MDawgGratuitous somewhat irrelevant picture, only because you mentioned Models in Vegas....
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Interesting picture. Is the mug filled with coffee or tea?
oh and that picture you posted theres another if you swipe left...
Quote: MDawgI renamed it, PERPETUAL COMP MACHINE.
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Catchier, no? and mine implies longevity. Chasing implies never quite catching up.
So I guess we could rename it "A Rose by any other Name"
Quote: heatmaphad you not named this thread perpetual comp machine i wouldnt have clicked on it ... i just really am into perpetual motion so ... i also appreciate the advice and am enjoying this thread
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oh and that picture you posted theres another if you swipe left...
But what MDawg described is the complete opposite of a perpetual motion!
Perpetual Motion means a machine that keeps going without the requirement to add energy source. It moves perpetually on its own power.
MDawg is keeping his offers going by adding action (energy) to his players card. The method of reward, actual losses vs theoretical losses is just describing different forms of how action is calculated.
As soon as MDawg takes the offers but delivers no action (energy) on his card the comps will cease or die out.
To claim maintenance of comps by adding action is perpetual motion is like claiming your car will drive continuously as long as you add gasoline is perpetual motion.
Quote: darkozQuote: heatmaphad you not named this thread perpetual comp machine i wouldnt have clicked on it ... i just really am into perpetual motion so ... i also appreciate the advice and am enjoying this thread
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oh and that picture you posted theres another if you swipe left...
But what MDawg described is the complete opposite of a perpetual motion!
Perpetual Motion means a machine that keeps going without the requirement to add energy source. It moves perpetually on its own power.
MDawg is keeping his offers going by adding action (energy) to his players card. The method of reward, actual losses vs theoretical losses is just describing different forms of how action is calculated.
As soon as MDawg takes the offers but delivers no action (energy) on his card the comps will cease or die out.
To claim maintenance of comps by adding action is perpetual motion is like claiming your car will drive continuously as long as you add gasoline is perpetual motion.link to original post
I should have prefaced this with I’m drunk and like the words and ideas that this thread has generated in my mind
Logic has little to do with my enjoyment here i apologize for talking like this but I don’t want to say something stupid when I’m drunk lol
Quote: heatmapQuote: darkozQuote: heatmaphad you not named this thread perpetual comp machine i wouldnt have clicked on it ... i just really am into perpetual motion so ... i also appreciate the advice and am enjoying this thread
link to original post
oh and that picture you posted theres another if you swipe left...
But what MDawg described is the complete opposite of a perpetual motion!
Perpetual Motion means a machine that keeps going without the requirement to add energy source. It moves perpetually on its own power.
MDawg is keeping his offers going by adding action (energy) to his players card. The method of reward, actual losses vs theoretical losses is just describing different forms of how action is calculated.
As soon as MDawg takes the offers but delivers no action (energy) on his card the comps will cease or die out.
To claim maintenance of comps by adding action is perpetual motion is like claiming your car will drive continuously as long as you add gasoline is perpetual motion.link to original post
I should have prefaced this with I’m drunk and like the words and ideas that this thread has generated in my mind
Logic has little to do with my enjoyment here i apologize for talking like this but I don’t want to say something stupid when I’m drunk lollink to original post
" Luckily, all my best ideas come when I'm drunk" Harley Quinn
I'll back it!
Please don't insult him by suggesting this could be just some picture he found on the internet. It could very well be a real sex-trafficked prostitute he found hidden under a stack of chips.Quote: ExpectedvalueWhy are you posting this girl? Are you claiming that she is a friend of yours? Or you are just reporting pictures you found on the internet?
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How do you know her? I guess she's a model? Did you take the original picture?
The way it works with my movements is that we stay wherever we can for as long as we can until the comps run out, then go wherever offers us a better deal as far as promo chips, concessions, etc. and also simply based on where we want to stay next. Occasionally my wife interjects with a "let's just go home" but obviously, at least so far, I have been able to stave that off.
Quote: MDawgCan you see why when I get to Vegas I never want to leave?
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I created this thread about how comps work - in fact casinos give only 10% of an actual loss, but 35-40% of a theoretical loss, for comps. If I were losing, I'd have to be dumping somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.5M to have had them comp these six months in Vegas - obviously I'm not losing like that. The only realistic way to sustain a long term casino stay is via extended play without losing at all or without losing much.
Actually I am winning, but in any case, almost all of our comps are based on theoretical loss. Realistically, there is pretty much no way anyone could stay in Vegas an extended period unless he kept playing and avoided blow outs. Blow outs lead to minimal comps. Extended play leads to real comps. Which is why I view this as a perpetual comp machine 😆 since it requires no cash input, just cash availability, to keep going.
Quote: JohnzimboHer left boob might be a Rolex....not sure about her right one though
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She is a public figure with more than 800k followers, probably followed by mdawg as well. Not sure any he posted this. Her name is Haily and she is an Instagram model. She also posts pictures taken at the Wynn. Kind of weird that mdawg would post it with no explanation. Guess it speaks for itself and along the lines of everything else that is posted
Theo loss at table games is handed out pretty well at games like Blackjack, Baccarat, Craps, Roulette. Much less so at something like Pai Gow where it's hard to win or lose much and there are a lot of pushes. Slots obviously carry a higher theo loss than table games. Ask a casino owner what kind of big action players he would prefer - slots all the way.
Quote: MDawgThe hours of play are in fact needed to keep the comps rolling but the higher the average bet, the less hours needed to achieve the same theo loss, obviously.
I have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Stalker. 🙂Quote: ExpectedvalueQuote: JohnzimboHer left boob might be a Rolex....not sure about her right one though
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She is a public figure with more than 800k followers, probably followed by mdawg as well. Not sure any he posted this. Her name is Haily and she is an Instagram model. She also posts pictures taken at the Wynn. Kind of weird that mdawg would post it with no explanation. Guess it speaks for itself and along the lines of everything else that is postedlink to original post
Quote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
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A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.
So you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.Quote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
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A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.link to original post
Quote: AxelWolfSo you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.link to original postQuote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
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A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.link to original post
im not necessarily on anyones side here but... how much are comps in general ACTUALLY worth compared to what the price is? You can give someone lets say a 100 dollar meal comp but they only paid like 5 dollars total for the meal ingredients and the fraction of the 100 dollars that might go to paying the chef that tiny sliver of time to cook the meal - or something like that
No real side here, I know casino have and will do this at times and even better. I used to get 20% back.Quote: heatmapQuote: AxelWolfSo you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.link to original postQuote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
link to original post
A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.link to original post
im not necessarily on anyones side here but... how much are comps in general ACTUALLY worth compared to what the price is? You can give someone lets say a 100 dollar meal comp but they only paid like 5 dollars total for the meal ingredients and the fraction of the 100 dollars that might go to paying the chef that tiny sliver of time to cook the meal - or something like thatlink to original post
I just don't think it's that simple or some formula you can count on. Heck, I have lost 10+ quickly on games with much higher house advantages at locations and it's like pulling teeth to get a normal room and normal meal. Obviously, if you have some decent history with a location and they are fairly confident they will make up for over comping a few quick loss comps, I have no doubt they will.
Well, let's look at just the three biggest - ROOM, FOOD, BEVERAGE (RFB).
Room:
Yes, one might say that a room that sits empty versus one that is occupied costs the hotel only housekeeping, supplies, utility costs, etc. to maintain the room while occupied, but what about the construction cost of the hotel, the "sunk" costs to build the room and make it fit for occupation? Here, I calculated that the top resorts on the Strip have spent over a million dollars per room average cost to build the resort in the first place. Resorts World Vegas, the new kid on the block, just put in average $1.3M per room to build their hotel.
Now, those figures aren't exact and don't figure in non-hotel room square footage such as common areas, nightclubs, restaurants, bars, spas and convention use spaces, etc., but still - any hotel has a mortgage - debt - and needs to recover that debt. So until the mortgage is paid off, the cost of a room is not solely related to its use and maintenance, but to how much it cost to build it.
Therefore, saying that an empty room costs the hotel only housekeeping and maintenance costs, is simplistic.
Food and Beverage:
Similarly, how much does it cost to open a restaurant? I'd say that a Vegas restaurant might cost millions to build within a casino, and then the restaurant is either operated by the casino or leased to it. And it definitely costs money to operate a restaurant. In cases where the restaurant is not owned by the casino, the casino has to cut a check for each meal comp'ed, not simply provide it and write it off at cost.
So, if you look at our little problem along them lines,
you might drop the argument that the cost of a given comp'ed item is merely its "ingredients."
Now, if you're getting at what is the value of the comp to the casino player - well, there are in fact people who stay in Vegas casino resorts who do not gamble or do not get much if any comps, and simply pay cash for everything. I see more people than you would expect bust out a credit card to pay for lavish meals at these Vegas restaurants, which implies that they are paying cash out of pocket for everything.
Is a thousand dollar a night suite worth a thousand dollars? Is a Japanese Kobe Wagyu steak at SW or Majordomo worth $75. / ounce? Is the fish at Milo, flown in daily from the Mediterranean, worth $60. - $80. / pound? I would say that Vegas Strip hotel rooms are more expensive than non-Strip rooms, and that Vegas casino restaurants are more expensive than off-Strip non-casino restaurants, but that's not to say that there aren't Los Angeles or New York City hotel rooms or restaurants that are just as, if not much more expensive.
I've always felt that the reason a shot of Louis XIII or an even more expensive Cognac is as much as it is in a Vegas casino bar or restaurant is so that the player being comp'ed might really feel like he is getting something for his play, but then - there are non-gamblers who come in and pay for the same, in cash, so there are people who think such extravagance is worth spending on straight up.
Quote: heatmapQuote: AxelWolfSo you are claiming the high-end locations on the strip will give you $2,500 in comps after losing 25k on a few hands of baccarat on the regular? Even though the casino take is only $275. Interesting indeed.link to original postQuote: MDawgQuote: AlanMendelsonI have to question this because of something that happened several years ago when I was a regular player at Caesars Palace.
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A frequent visitor came in for a weekend. His usual weekend visits included $25k for playing craps. Usually the $25k gave him a three day weekend of action and he'd be FULLY comped.
But on this particular weekend he lost his usual $25k in just two hours. He did not play after that.
Caesars required 4 hours of play each day for full comps.
On Sunday, when he called his host to clear his bill for the weekend the Host refused to comp because of a lack of play. It didnt matter that he lost $25k in two hours.
The player was appealing. I dont know what happened.
Puzzling because a $25K blowout would earn $2500. in comps, which I'd think would cover a few nights RFB. Even if he was staying in a suite that ate up say the entire 2500 and he had additional food and beverage, most hosts would cover it anyway, at least for that one trip - even if the end result was overcomping for that particular trip, in the interests of not annoying a regular player who just lost a lot of money.
But still, I assume that if the guy put in four hours a day playing at a high average, that this would earn him more comps via the 40% of theo loss than the 10% of the blowout, which makes my point of that over time, really the only way to sustain long periods of fully comp'ed stays is via ACTION not loss. It's a little hard for people on the outskirts to understand how Vegas comps really work, but they are engineered to reward continued action more than blowout losses.link to original post
im not necessarily on anyones side here but... how much are comps in general ACTUALLY worth compared to what the price is? You can give someone lets say a 100 dollar meal comp but they only paid like 5 dollars total for the meal ingredients and the fraction of the 100 dollars that might go to paying the chef that tiny sliver of time to cook the meal - or something like thatlink to original post
By sitting you at a table and comping your meal, the restaurant loses the $100 cash customer that otherwise would have occupied that table. There is so much more to factor in to a cost of a meal than the ingredients and the chefs salary.
You guys trying to figure out stuff I already know is hilarious.
I suspect Axel already knows but is acting coy to avoid drawing attention while still participating.
As far as how table games comps and comps in general are calculated, what I posted in the first post - 10% of actual, 35-40% of theoretical, is the way it is. Period. But - hosts will give longtime players some leeway.
Put it this way? What's the biggest COMP you ever got for a single trip? Mine would be - about a quarter million dollars worth, over the past six months. That's just RFB + spa, doesn't include rebates/concessions, promotional chips and special events, gifts, Visa gift cards, casino dollars with which to buy consumer goods, etc.
Quote: MDawgYou do slots - slots have a high house edge and are for big casino losers. The casino bottom line is benefitted from slots players. You're not benefitting from COMPS, what you are doing has nothing to do with comps, does it? You're working on free play which is a form of comps I suppose.
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As far as how table games comps and comps in general are calculated, what I posted in the first post - 10% of actual, 35-40% of theoretical, is the way it is. Period. But - hosts will give longtime players some leeway.
Put it this way? What's the biggest COMP you ever got for a single trip? Mine would be - about a quarter million dollars worth, over the past six months. That's just RFB + spa, doesn't include rebates/concessions, promotional chips and special events, gifts, Visa gift cards, casino dollars with which to buy consumer goods, etc.
I believe most people consider freeplay not just a form of comps but the most important comps one can obtain.
If you don't consider them comps or want to place Freeplay into a different category then we are in agreement that you get comped better.
Freeplay is what AP's use to make profit through an advantage.
What you seem excited about (nothing wrong from a Ploppie pov) is getting treated nice, feeling like a king.
I get those emotions too when given hotels and RFB and show tickets although ultimately, to me, it's all carrots on a stick.
Icing on the cake while I profit cash from freeplay.
Quote: MDawgWhat I don't like is that these threads move along nicely, and then someone, in this case DarkOz, comes along with a "I already know better than everyone else." And then the threads turn into the typical WOV peeing matches.
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The thread about comps that moved along for two pages discussing who an internet model was in a bikini?
Quote: MDawgWhat I don't like is that these threads move along nicely, and then someone, in this case DarkOz, comes along with a "I already know better than everyone else." And then the threads turn into the typical WOV peeing matches.
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You start a thread about how you know more than everyone else, which you simply don't, and then get upset that someone pulls the same nonsense.
Get over yourself.
I'll play and have played just about every standard game in the casino with an advantage. So I just don't play slots.Quote: MDawgYou do slots - slots have a high house edge and are for big casino losers. The casino bottom line is benefitted from slots players. You're not benefitting from COMPS, what you are doing has nothing to do with comps, does it? You're working on free play which is a form of comps I suppose.
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As far as how table games comps and comps in general are calculated, what I posted in the first post - 10% of actual, 35-40% of theoretical, is the way it is. Period. But - hosts will give longtime players some leeway.
Put it this way? What's the biggest COMP you ever got for a single trip? Mine would be - about a quarter million dollars worth, over the past six months. That's just RFB + spa, doesn't include rebates/concessions, promotional chips and special events, gifts, Visa gift cards, casino dollars with which to buy consumer goods, etc.
For the most part, I wouldn't play for just comps(RFB) unless I was getting some very generous rate I felt was good value, or if I was using it to offset the cost of rooms and food while traveling.
All games are for big casino losers unless you have an advantage that can be proven via math. If you're betting large amounts on -EV table games you'll end up losing the same amount as people playing slots, it all depends on the betting levels and speed of play.
A slot can be +EV so it's not just for big losers.
"The way it is"? So you're telling me that if I hit up 10 different casinos on the strip betting 1 hand of baccarat(or any table game) for 25k, if I won half my bets, and lost half my bets... I would have $12,500 minimum in Comps? And does this include craps while taking odds if you lose?
But something YOU wouldn't pay more than 50% for.Quote: darkoz
I believe most people consider freeplay not just a form of comps but the most important comps one can obtain.
Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
Quote: MDawgWhat I don't like is that these threads move along nicely, and then someone, in this case DarkOz, comes along with a "I already know better than everyone else." And then the threads turn into the typical WOV peeing matches.
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At least nobody insisted the Canadiens were playing.
And LOL@10% actual being standard.
Quote: AxelWolfBut something YOU wouldn't pay more than 50% for.
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Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.
It's true, I wouldn't.
Using my methods I can achieve obtaining Freeplay for around 20%.
Paying 50% is paying more for something I can get for less.
Also if I remember that conversation came out of the Pennsylvania Sands bus rebate where people sold $45 Freeplay for $40. Now that's people buying Freeplay just for a $5 advantage lol.
(And I felt it was the correct amount there too)
Quote: MDawgSo DarkOz plays slots and actually wins in addition to getting comps? Because that is what I do at table games, which is why I refer to it as perpetual - not needing the addition of any fuel. Oil maybe, but no fuel!
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He plays with an edge. You don't.
Quote: MDawgSo DarkOz plays slots and actually wins in addition to getting comps? Because that is what I do at table games, which is why I refer to it as perpetual - not needing the addition of any fuel. Oil maybe, but no fuel!
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I don't think he claims he wins playing slots. For his particular gimmick, all you have to do is lose less than you'll get back in future free play.
Quote: MDawgSo DarkOz plays slots and actually wins in addition to getting comps? Because that is what I do at table games, which is why I refer to it as perpetual - not needing the addition of any fuel. Oil maybe, but no fuel!
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Not exactly.
I lose at slots but my Freeplay adds up to much more than my losses.
Question: do you employ any strategy or edge when you play slots or are you just pushing buttons as quickly as possible? (Assuming that there is any strategy or edge that would matter with the slot machines you play, that is.)
Quote: MDawgSo then your actual slots play, employs no strategy or edge that is capable of eliminating the loss? Doesn't matter so much I suppose if the end result from freeplay overcomes that, but just saying....
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Question: do you employ any strategy or edge when you play slots or are you just pushing buttons as quickly as possible? (Assuming that there is any strategy or edge that would matter with the slot machines you play, that is.)
Yes when it's available. Not all slots have what you would term an edge. Actually it's rare but if available I play those.
Otherwise it's all about obtaining Freeplay.
The edge however is my knowledge of how the comps systems work.
Technically I am not beating slots. I am beating casinos through comp hustling.
The point is to get the cash. My methods achieve that.
