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darkoz
darkoz
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May 17th, 2021 at 3:19:59 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

As long as you bring it up, let's discuss the casino scene in On Her Majesty's Secret Service next. Trivia -- This is the only film where Bond gets married.

.



That's a technical distinction.

He gets married in You Only Live Twice.

It's an Asian ceremony and "part of his job" but he seems genuinely affected by his assigned wife
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Joeman
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May 17th, 2021 at 6:47:42 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I've never seen 'Goldeneye' ... probably because I was against Pierce Brosnan being the next James Bond and have never seen more than a few moments of any of them where Brosnan was Bond

Maybe I've reached a stage where I can get over that and start watching those movies. They don't seem to show up on Cable/Satellite though

There is a James Bond Channel on PlutoTV (which is a free service). I just watched GoldenEye over the weekend.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
Wizard
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May 17th, 2021 at 8:59:11 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

That's a technical distinction.

He gets married in You Only Live Twice.

It's an Asian ceremony and "part of his job" but he seems genuinely affected by his assigned wife



Good point. I haven't seen that movie in decades and forgot about that part.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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May 18th, 2021 at 6:49:55 AM permalink
Let's move onto the final Chemin de Fer scene, this time from For Your Eyes Only.


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEcRK09D88Y

This is my least favorite of the four. Here is what little I can see.

The scene starts with Bond banking. The first hand Bond loses natural 8 to 5. I don't understand why the winner acts like he just lost the hand.

Then the dealer (not to be confused with the banker), seems to be asking if the player wants to bet the full amount Bond is staking. Here is a time I wish I could speak French. The player ups his bet from 500,000 Greek drachma (I assume) to one million. It isn't stated what Bond's maximum stake is, but I assume one million.

Bond then makes a comment about it being an unfriendly shoe, for the player. This would seem more appropriate had the player lost the previous hand.

In the second hand, the player draw a card. Bond, as banker, reveals his total of another 5. We do not see what card the other player received, which I hate! Why not show it? Whatever it is, the player seems happy with it.

It's now Bond's turn. A man walks up to the table and says, "The odds favor standing pat." I could appreciate this scene so much more if it was revealed what the player's third card was. Here are what the odds favor, according to the player's third card against a Banker 5:

0,1,2,3,8,9 -- Stand
5,6,7 -- Hit
4 -- Strategic

Against a 4, the Banker should hit take the same action he thinks the player would have done with a two-card total of 5. As I've said before, if two logicians played chemin de fer, then the player would hit a 5 78% of the time.

Assuming the advisor thinks the player would stand on 5, then his advice would be correct. However, Bond responds to the advice, "If you play the odds." He then deals himself a 4, for a winning total of 9. Given that the player seems happy, I would hit too, unless I felt the player was putting on an act, which I don't read to be the case here.

I think this whole scene was badly shot. I tend to think whoever was in the editing room put in the wrong close up shots. When I did my videos with Angela it was always a pain to mix in the right close up shots, but something that should be done carefully. The way this was probably shot, as I do with my videos, was they did all the distant shots first and then did the close ups and put everything in the right order, hopefully, in the editing room. The editor, I suspect, didn't understand chemin de fer.

By the way, this same scene can be found at a video titled James Bond caught cheating at Baccarat. My question to that is, how did Bond cheat? If the shoe had a mirror, he could have seen the 4 he drew. However, I see no evidence that it did. Furthermore, Bond doesn't need to cheat, he always wins.
Last edited by: Wizard on May 18, 2021
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
odiousgambit
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May 18th, 2021 at 8:56:31 AM permalink
Quote: grumpytuber (makes first comment in 'james bond caught cheating')


4 years ago
there's no way people at the table would stay quiet if the count was 5 and the croupier called out nine. and there's no way a player betting half a mil wouldn't at least look at the cards and check that his 8 was beat. quite unrealistic. as for the second hand, i would have liked to seen the cards the player drew.

I think this person at least believes that Bond made his 5 look like a 9 to the dealer, who would have been looking from an disadvantageous angle maybe. Bond partly covers the card with his hand.

you'd have to be an idiot to think that would work
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizard
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May 18th, 2021 at 9:22:59 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I think this person at least believes that Bond made his 5 look like a 9 to the dealer, who would have been looking from an disadvantageous angle maybe. Bond partly covers the card with his hand.

you'd have to be an idiot to think that would work



Okay, I've watched the other video (below) several times and see what you mean. I didn't originally link to that one because I hate how it distorts the screen dimensions, making everything look too narrow.


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXeyzF4sbJI

He notes that in the first hand, the dealer declares Bond's total a 9, when it is clearly 5. The one making the comment on the video seems to think Bond was tricking the dealer somehow, like a magician, making his 5 look like a 9, but I don't buy it.

Note Bond's first two cards are exactly the same in both hands -- the queen of spades and the 5 of diamonds. I think this was just terrible editing, where Bond really did have a 9 in the first hand and they put in a close of up the five, meant for the second hand only, instead of some nine-point hand.

Can anyone verify the dealer says nine in French in the first hand? Translation sites say the word for nine in French is neuf, which sounds like what the dealer is saying, but I know French pronunciation is often not as it looks to the person used to English.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Gialmere
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May 18th, 2021 at 10:31:56 AM permalink
Ah, the scene that has inspired so many "Ask the Wizard" questions. Here is a rough translation from another website...


(time) English (French):

(0:07) 500,000 from Banker (Cinq cent mille le Banco)

(0:08) Who will match? (Qui fait Banco? (I think))

(0:12) Banker, cards if you please. (Banco, cartes s'il vous plait.)

(0:24) 8 (huit)

(0:27) And 9 from Banker (et neuf la Banque?) [Even though Bond shows five = error in editing the film]

(0:40) 1 million from Banker, sir (Un million a Banco, monsieur)

(0:42) Who matches Banker? (Qui fait Banco?)

(0:58) 1 million (un million)

(1:02) Banker follows (Banco suivi)

(1:04) Cards, if you please (Cartes s'il vous plait)

(1:14) Card [hit me] (Carte)

(1:32) Nine to Banker (Neuf la Banque)

(1:36) I pass. (Je m'en passe.)
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
darkoz
darkoz
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May 18th, 2021 at 11:28:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Okay, I've watched the other video (below) several times and see what you mean. I didn't originally link to that one because I hate how it distorts the screen dimensions, making everything look too narrow.


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXeyzF4sbJI

He notes that in the first hand, the dealer declares Bond's total a 9, when it is clearly 5. The one making the comment on the video seems to think Bond was tricking the dealer somehow, like a magician, making his 5 look like a 9, but I don't buy it.

Note Bond's first two cards are exactly the same in both hands -- the queen of spades and the 5 of diamonds. I think this was just terrible editing, where Bond really did have a 9 in the first hand and they put in a close of up the five, meant for the second hand only, instead of some nine-point hand.

Can anyone verify the dealer says nine in French in the first hand? Translation sites say the word for nine in French is neuf, which sounds like what the dealer is saying, but I know French pronunciation is often not as it looks to the person used to English.



It appears to be an editorial mistake.

As someone who worked in editorial it should be pointed out not every editorial mistake is the fault of editorial.

For example on set the close-ups may not have been satisfactory or the footage may not have been logged properly (they don't print everything due to cost, there would be selected takes for printing. The outs can always be gone through for material if necessary but it's a chore especially if not catalogued properly).

Editorial may have placed the wrong shot in a temporary placement awaiting second unit production to assemble a crew to shoot the insert. Financing may have balked at the expenses of shooting such a quick close up (I can see a producer exclaiming no one will tell the difference so why spend the money)

Editorial may have simply forgotten the shot was a place holder and it wound up in the finished film (although that would technically also be an editorial mistake)

There are so many ways things go south in preparation of a movie
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Wizard
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May 18th, 2021 at 12:30:27 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

...There are so many ways things go south in preparation of a movie



I don't disagree with that. Even the $%@# videos I make are a pain to edit.

However, there must be some stage in the process where they just sit and watch the movie from start to finish before signing off on it. Yes, I'm sure they are sick of the thing, but big movies miss such simple things.

Like, Kevin Spacey in 21 saying "It's a myth to always split eights and aces."

Or the whole math problem in Good Will Hunting.

I get that a movie director may not be an expert at math or blackjack, but can't they find someone to consult with who is?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
darkoz
darkoz
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May 18th, 2021 at 12:44:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't disagree with that. Even the $%@# videos I make are a pain to edit.

However, there must be some stage in the process where they just sit and watch the movie from start to finish before signing off on it. Yes, I'm sure they are sick of the thing, but big movies miss such simple things.

Like, Kevin Spacey in 21 saying "It's a myth to always split eights and aces."

Or the whole math problem in Good Will Hunting.

I get that a movie director may not be an expert at math or blackjack, but can't they find someone to consult with who is?



Yes, it's true someone does sign off on the final project but he is generally a money man on one side. An artist, usually the director and/or editor on the other. They aren't interested in small gambling details or even correctness of details. They are looking at more artistic design

Is the scene to scene changes smooth. How is the color reproduction. How impactful are the final performance of the actors. Can a removal of a scene better show an actors emotions.

And from a business perspective they are concentrating on deliverables.

What scenes will be flagged by the MPAA. What subtitles may need different versions for different countries (Even something simple like the date being shown has to be accounted for as some countries show month first then day, others day first then month.)

It's a huge undertaking just signing off on the finished film and something like this wrong card in a close-up is probably going to fly by the wayside.

Finally, time frames can be impactful on mistakes. Film distribution is generally planned months ahead concurrently with millions of dollars in marketing. Rarely is a delay to theaters not going to cost millions. Even if the mistake of the five cardsl was noticed during the final going through no way they would allow it to cost them money at that point.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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