Thread Rating:

Poll

2 votes (14.28%)
No votes (0%)
4 votes (28.57%)
No votes (0%)
3 votes (21.42%)
2 votes (14.28%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (7.14%)
2 votes (14.28%)

14 members have voted

Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1563
May 8th, 2021 at 1:46:57 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

Speaking of LTK Wizard, don't forget the blackjack casino scene...



It's worth pointing out that here and in, say, the craps scene in DAF, Bond isn't making the best plays but is rather splashing money around to draw attention to himself.



If I recall correctly (that is probably the Connery movie I am least familiar with, because I have never enjoyed it), that is after he killed the American guy (don't remember the character's name) and took his identity and was using his credit line, I think like you said it was probably to get attention, because I think one of the subplots was around an elusive owner of the casino who nobody has seen in years. I do remember in one of the casino scenes in that movie Q also has a ring that can set the results of the slot machine, a lot of that movie took place in Nevada (though this is the rare exception of being both a movie and book that I find not enjoyable).
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1392
  • Posts: 23456
May 8th, 2021 at 4:50:32 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

1. Sylvia Trench plays three hands against Bond. In the first two she gets a 3, the third a natural 8.
Although she asks for a "Carte" in the first two hands, none are handed to her. It's just that per the rules of Chemin de Fer opponents keep their hands face down to each other until the rules require them to expose. Bond could have exposed his 8 immediately, but, hey, it's a movie, and for purposes of drama, they had him expose it after Sylvia had exposed hers.

In the third hand, again, he exposes his natural 9 after she exposes her 8, for drama's sake, but he could have exposed it right away.



You just said Bond couldn't look at his hand until Sylvia had finished. That would seem to indicate Bond could not expose his 8 early.

Quote:

2. The casino rakes 4-5% of every Bank win is how the casino makes money on this version of the game. Also, and this may not be the way it is done at that particular casino depicted in the movie, the Banker may place bets higher than what is covered by the other players, and the casino then steps in to cover that action. In other words, the person holding the shoe acting as Banker could bet 10000 where the other players are only putting up 5000, and in that case the extra 5000 wager is between the Banker player and the casino (the house).



Are you sure about that? I think you have that backwards. The Banker states the maximum he will cover. If the players collectively want to bet more, then the house (casino) covers the difference. That is kind of how it works in LA, except other players may co-bank or kum-kum (sp?).

You can see between the first and second hand there is some French, which I would like to get a translation of, where someone else at the table, presumably an employee of the casino, says, "Yes, the house will cover the difference." That seemed to indicate Sylvia wanted to bet more than the table limit.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 3426
May 8th, 2021 at 6:31:30 PM permalink
I am going by the written rules published by an American casino where Chemin de Fer is played. In this particular casino, no bets are allowed by the Banker that are not covered completely by the other players, so the house rake must be the only source of income for the house.

5. Wagers placed by banker
(a) Immediately prior to dealing the cards, the Banker shall place a wager in support of the "Banker's Hand" which shall conform to the requirements of (b) below. The wager placed by the Banker shall:
(1) Win if the "Banker's Hand" has a Point Count higher than that of the "Player's Hand";
(2) Lose if the "Banker's Hand" has a Point Count lower than that of the "Player's Hand";
(3) Be void if the Point Counts of the "Banker's Hand" and the "Player's Hand" are equal.
(b) The wager placed by the Banker immediately after accepting the shoe shall not be less than the amount such participant offered in bidding to become the Banker. The amount of all subsequent wagers placed by the Banker as such shall be at least equal to, but no more than twice, the amount of his immediately preceding wager. An example of this rule is as follows: if Participant A becomes the Banker for a high bid of $1,000, he must place a wager of at least $1,000 on the first hand dealt. If he continues as the Banker, his wager on the second hand must be at least $1,000 but not more than $2,000. Assuming he wagers $2,000 on the second hand, his wager on the third hand (if he continues as the Banker) must be at least $2,000 but not more than $4,000.
(c) Any wager placed by the Banker in cash shall be exchanged immediately by the dealer for gaming chips or plaques in accordance with the regulations governing the acceptance and conversion of such instruments.
6. Wagers made against banker
(a) After the Banker has placed a wager in support of the "Banker's Hand", the remaining participants at the table shall be given the opportunity of wagering against all or a part of the wager made by the Banker provided, however, that such wagers shall not exceed, either individually or in the aggregate, the amount wagered by the Banker.
(b) Any participant who equaled and lost the immediately preceding wager of the Banker shall have the first option of making a wager against the Banker in an amount equal to the amount being wagered by the Banker. Said participant shall exercise this option by announcing "Banco Suivi" or "Suivi" and by placing the requisite wager on the appropriate area of the layout. A "standoff" shall not be counted for the purpose of determining the immediately preceding wager under this subsection.
(c) If no qualified participant announces "Banco Suivi" or "Suivi", the next preference shall be given to any participant placing a wager against the Banker equal in amount to that wagered by the Banker. This option shall be exercised by a participant announcing "Banco Seul" or "Banco" and by placing the requisite wager on the appropriate area of the layout. Whenever more than one participant announces "Banco Seul" or "Banco", preference shall be given to the participant making such announcement who is seated nearest to the Banker in a counterclockwise direction around the table.
(d) If the options granted by (b) and (c) above are not exercised, each participant, beginning with one seated to the immediate right of the Banker and moving counterclockwise around the table, shall have the right to make a wager against a part of the wager made by the Banker. Such wagers shall be accepted until the amount of the partial wagers, taken in the aggregate, equals the amount of the wager made by the Banker or until, the dealer announces "No More Bets."
(e) No wager at Baccarat-Chemin de Fer shall be made, increased or withdrawn after the dealer has announced "No More Bets" except that the Banker shall withdraw any part of his initial wager that was not covered by the wagers of the other participants.
(f) Any wager placed by the participants in cash shall be exchanged immediately by the dealer for gaming chips or plaques in accordance with the regulations governing the acceptance and conversion of such instruments.
(g) The wager(s) placed by the participants shall:
(1) Win if the "Player's Hand" has a Point Count higher than that of the "Bankers Hand"; (2) Lose if the "Player's Hand" has a Point Count lower than that of the "Banker's Hand"; (3) Be void if the Point Counts of the "Banker's HandĒ and the "Player's Hand" are equal.


Again, I don't recall exactly how it worked in Monte Carlo when I played there briefly on two different trips to Monaco.

In the clip from Dr. No, Sylvia says "Suivi" which means, "Follow" (from the French verb suivre), and, according to the American casino's rules, means:

Any participant who equaled and lost the immediately preceding wager of the Banker shall have the first option of making a wager against the Banker in an amount equal to the amount being wagered by the Banker. Said participant shall exercise this option by announcing "Banco Suivi" or "Suivi" and by placing the requisite wager on the appropriate area of the layout.

which would imply that Sylvia already lost the previous hand (maybe that scene ended up on the cutting room floor). The implication of "The House will cover the difference" implies that she is betting more than Bond has put up, yes, but, again, it's a movie, so who knows. (When I heard them say that I assumed it meant that the house was covering her bet in terms of some kind of marker because she didn't have all of it (She does later say, "I need another thousand," presumably to the House), but again, who knows.)

When you get to Goldeneye, you'll find a tribute to Eunice Gayson (who played Sylvia Trench) where her daughter Kate Gayson plays the Casino girl, in the Baccarat scene.
Last edited by: MDawg on May 8, 2021
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 3426
May 8th, 2021 at 6:44:24 PM permalink
By the way, notice that when asked, she declares her name to be, "Trench. Sylvia Trench," after which Bond follows suit by saying that his name is "Bond. James Bond."

So, Eunice Gayson is famous not just for being the first Bond girl, but also for leading to the most famous catchphrase of all Bond movies.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1392
  • Posts: 23456
May 9th, 2021 at 2:04:21 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

By the way, notice that when asked, she declares her name to be, "Trench. Sylvia Trench," after which Bond follows suit by saying that his name is "Bond. James Bond."

So, Eunice Gayson is famous not just for being the first Bond girl, but also for leading to the most famous catchphrase of all Bond movies.



I read the original script had Bond to say something like, "My name is Bond." However, at the time, Connery improvised the "Bond...James Bond," and the director liked it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
zippyboy
zippyboy
Joined: Jan 19, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 1124
May 9th, 2021 at 7:54:59 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

.....except Casino Royale which was in legal limbo for decades)....


Details please! Sounds interesting.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 261
  • Posts: 8856
Thanks for this post from:
Gandler
May 9th, 2021 at 8:18:53 AM permalink
Quote: zippyboy

Details please! Sounds interesting.



Ian Fleming sold the rights to Casino Royale for a television episode which predated the movies (that's a trick trivia by the way, Sean Connery was NOT the first James Bond)

When Fleming sold the rights to the novels to producers Broccoli and Saltzman who intended to do an extended series, Fleming had to leave Casino Royale out of the package deal as the rights were still tied up with the television producers.

Fleming passed away in 1964 and by 1966 the rights to Casino Royale to do a movie version either reverted back to his widow or something of that nature but bottom line they were sold NOT to Salztman and Broccoli but to Columbia pictures which then decided to turn their films into a horrible spoof starring David Niven as Bond, Peter Sellers and Woody Allen as nephew Jimmy Bond.

Eventually it was all sorted out and when a Daniel Craig reboot was decided upon they had the genius idea to reboot with the novel which had started it all (Casino Royale was the first Bond novel written, not Dr. No. In fact Dr. No is one the later books and was chosen first to be produced because it was relatively new on the bookstands so they figured people would recognize it faster.

Anyway, the only other Bond novel that had worse legal limbo problems was Thunderball
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Gandler
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1563
May 9th, 2021 at 8:45:33 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Ian Fleming sold the rights to Casino Royale for a television episode which predated the movies (that's a trick trivia by the way, Sean Connery was NOT the first James Bond)

When Fleming sold the rights to the novels to producers Broccoli and Saltzman who intended to do an extended series, Fleming had to leave Casino Royale out of the package deal as the rights were still tied up with the television producers.

Fleming passed away in 1964 and by 1966 the rights to Casino Royale to do a movie version either reverted back to his widow or something of that nature but bottom line they were sold NOT to Salztman and Broccoli but to Columbia pictures which then decided to turn their films into a horrible spoof starring David Niven as Bond, Peter Sellers and Woody Allen as nephew Jimmy Bond.

Eventually it was all sorted out and when a Daniel Craig reboot was decided upon they had the genius idea to reboot with the novel which had started it all (Casino Royale was the first Bond novel written, not Dr. No. In fact Dr. No is one the later books and was chosen first to be produced because it was relatively new on the bookstands so they figured people would recognize it faster.

Anyway, the only other Bond novel that had worse legal limbo problems was Thunderball



Yes! Thunderball is another interesting drama. Basically Flemming and McClory were cowriting a script for a new story for a film, bur Flemming got impatient and published it as a book under his own name (which as much as I love Flemming was kind of sleazy, though this is disputed). That is also why "Spectre" characters were not allowed to used until the most recent film when they finally got the rights back (although they totally butchered their return IMO, but that is another story). It also led to "Never Say Never Again" (since McClory had the rights to release his own movies based on the Thunderball story every so may years).

I think one reason Dr. No was also chosen if I recall correctly was that it was a story that could be made low budget. I think they wanted to make Thunderball first (the book came out right as they were planning the first film 60 or 61), but it would require a huge budget (which makes sense with the scale of Thunderball, and the complex underwater scenes), at least I think that is what I recall from the commentary on either Dr No or Thunderball DVD.
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 3426
May 9th, 2021 at 9:54:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: MDawg

By the way, notice that when asked, she declares her name to be, "Trench. Sylvia Trench," after which Bond follows suit by saying that his name is "Bond. James Bond."

So, Eunice Gayson is famous not just for being the first Bond girl, but also for leading to the most famous catchphrase of all Bond movies.



I read the original script had Bond to say something like, "My name is Bond." However, at the time, Connery improvised the "Bond...James Bond," and the director liked it.



Here are the script pages from that scene, albeit the "Fifth draft screenplay by Richard Maibaum, Wolf Mankowitz, and JM (Johanna) Harwood for Dr No (Eon Productions/MGM)." Maybe Connery's improvisation was already incorporated into this fifth draft, because his saying Bond. James Bond. AFTER Sylvia says Trench. Sylvia Trench. is already in black and white in this script.

In this draft, on the first hand, Sylvia actually draws to end with a 7 while Bond draws a third card to end with 8. On the second hand Sylvia has a pat 6, Bond a natural 8. Third hand, Bond hands Sylvia a 5 (unclear what her two cards add up to, maybe 0 same as Bond's first two), and Bond draws a 7 to win the hand with a 7.

Given that Bond's stack of chips are noted as growing monstrously, and Sylvia's described as a "small pile," I continue to think that her saying that "The House will cover the difference" either means that the House will cover the difference in paying Bond if he wins, or, perhaps, will lend her the difference to cover her bet. Her saying Suivi means she wants to bet the entire sum, so the latter interpretation perhaps makes more sense. In either case, note that after she queries as to whether the House will cover the difference, the script directs that Bond glances at the croupier, who nods, meaning that Bond's motivation is to make sure he is paid the full amount of his wager.



Last edited by: MDawg on May 9, 2021
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
Gialmere
Gialmere
Joined: Nov 26, 2018
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 2123
May 11th, 2021 at 5:24:16 PM permalink
Surprisingly (considering there's a James Bond roulette system from the books), roulette is never played in the films. The closest it came was a brief DAF deleted scene featuring a Sammy cameo...

Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.

  • Jump to: