Thread Rating:

Poll

18 votes (81.81%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (4.54%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (4.54%)
2 votes (9.09%)
1 vote (4.54%)
4 votes (18.18%)
2 votes (9.09%)
No votes (0%)

22 members have voted

USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 709
December 7th, 2020 at 7:07:42 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

I am new to this thread. I don't see where the difficulty lies. Possibly I don't understand the problem setup.

It looks like every hand in your game can fall into one or more classes, and you just want me to classify and count all the hands by the highest ranking class. For example, in standard poker, a full house contains a pair, two pair, trips, and a full house all in the same hand. However, a hand like 22233 would only be counted as a full house because that classification ranks highest (unless you have some weird ranking where trips ranks higher than a full house).

Every video poker calculator does this classification for a 52 or larger deck at setup. It isn't hard or time consuming (milliseconds). Why exactly is it hard for a hundred card deck?

I am clearly missing something.



I like your style ;) Instead of just assuming I lost my mind & the problem truly is easy, you are cautious because someone is telling you it's difficult& your listening to them 🙌

So the problem is that you are right that every hand can follow into multiple classes (which makes the problem seriously difficult) but in fact hand ranking can be in multiple different rankings because only the dominant ranking (least probable outcome) will apply to the hand.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 709
December 7th, 2020 at 7:12:52 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

Two questions:

How did six decks improve the user experience?

Did you get exact results for probabilities or did you use shortcuts? I would blow out my memory with my current method using six decks to do anything exactly.



1) So technology it's just 1 deck that has 5 different face vales, 4 different suits & 5 different colors. To call the deck a combination of decks just isn't correct since every card is unique in the deck. You aren't the 1st person to think of the royal deck as just 5 short decks combined but that's like saying your standard deck is really just 4 decks of ace though king combined and nobody says that because that sounds crazy.

2) Exact probabilities. I can tell you the exact amount of hands per each hand ranking when there are 75 million hand combinations!!!
Math is the only true form of knowledge
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 74
  • Posts: 6879
December 7th, 2020 at 7:13:18 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

Two questions:

How did six decks improve the user experience?

Did you get exact results for probabilities or did you use shortcuts? I would blow out my memory with my current method using six decks to do anything exactly.



It gave the patron a lot of low frequency outcomes that had high paybacks. For example a suited 5 of a kind.

I didn't do the math for that game as I was just an entry level casino programmer 25 years ago. If I had to guess it might have been Rex Carlson that did the math for that game.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 110
December 7th, 2020 at 7:58:47 PM permalink
Okay, I remember now:

Check out FIVE DECK FRENZY
31 May 1997

Las Vegas, Nev. -- If you're headed to Las Vegas, you might want to stop by the Fiesta, the Hard Rock and Gold Coast (or Harveys if you're traveling north to Tahoe). There you can participate in a market test of Five Deck Frenzy, a new progressive game recently approved by the Nevada State Gaming Control Board. Currently being tested at the Fitzgerald's in Las Vegas, the test should be expanded to the sites listed above in early June.

Five Deck Frenzy is the first joint marketing effort produced by the alliance of Shuffle Master Gaming and International Game Technology (IGT). Developed by Shuffle Master Gaming's Dr. Mark Yoseloff, Five Deck Frenzy debuted at the 1996 World Gaming Congress & Expo.

The quarter game provides a unique combination of payouts and progressive play utilizing IGT's MegaJackpot system. While traditional video poker games use a single deck of cards, Five Deck Frenzy is the first video poker game to deal cards from five separate, independent decks. The five decks provide the game with a significantly larger number of winning combinations than standard video draw poker. The progressive MegaJackpot is triggered by the top hand possible in the game - - five aces of spades - with the MegaJackpot starting at $200,000 and building as play increases.

The test period will extend into June, after which Shuffle Master and IGT expect to make the product available to the rest of the Nevada gaming market.
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 709
December 7th, 2020 at 8:06:51 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

Okay, I remember now:

Check out FIVE DECK FRENZY
31 May 1997

Las Vegas, Nev. -- If you're headed to Las Vegas, you might want to stop by the Fiesta, the Hard Rock and Gold Coast (or Harveys if you're traveling north to Tahoe). There you can participate in a market test of Five Deck Frenzy, a new progressive game recently approved by the Nevada State Gaming Control Board. Currently being tested at the Fitzgerald's in Las Vegas, the test should be expanded to the sites listed above in early June.

Five Deck Frenzy is the first joint marketing effort produced by the alliance of Shuffle Master Gaming and International Game Technology (IGT). Developed by Shuffle Master Gaming's Dr. Mark Yoseloff, Five Deck Frenzy debuted at the 1996 World Gaming Congress & Expo.

The quarter game provides a unique combination of payouts and progressive play utilizing IGT's MegaJackpot system. While traditional video poker games use a single deck of cards, Five Deck Frenzy is the first video poker game to deal cards from five separate, independent decks. The five decks provide the game with a significantly larger number of winning combinations than standard video draw poker. The progressive MegaJackpot is triggered by the top hand possible in the game - - five aces of spades - with the MegaJackpot starting at $200,000 and building as play increases.

The test period will extend into June, after which Shuffle Master and IGT expect to make the product available to the rest of the Nevada gaming market.



Oh wow, very nice find!!! I need to check this out. One of the big advantages to the Royal Deck is it's increased difficultly in obtaining its highest hand rankings. So 5 Deck Frenzy sounds like they were trying to obtain the same difficult outcomes for increasingly higher payouts. But 1 thing to note is that the Royal deck is just 1 deck instead of 5 combined decks, so there is an extra combination criterion to factor into the potential hand rankings to create even more difficult probabilities than simply combining 5 decks together. For example a royal flush won't be anywhere close to as difficult to obtain and a painted royal flush ;)
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 709
December 7th, 2020 at 8:12:01 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

It gave the patron a lot of low frequency outcomes that had high paybacks. For example a suited 5 of a kind.

I didn't do the math for that game as I was just an entry level casino programmer 25 years ago. If I had to guess it might have been Rex Carlson that did the math for that game.



That is absolutely correct & the same reason why I created the Royal deck, to begin with! But I dygres that the Royal deck has a multitude more hand ranking probablities. The suited 5 of a kind however has the same exact odds as my Quint Flush.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 110
December 7th, 2020 at 8:16:20 PM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

I like your style ;) Instead of just assuming I lost my mind & the problem truly is easy, you are cautious because someone is telling you it's difficult& your listening to them 🙌

So the problem is that you are right that every hand can follow into multiple classes (which makes the problem seriously difficult) but in fact hand ranking can be in multiple different rankings because only the dominant ranking (least probable outcome) will apply to the hand.



My experience tells me the problem is easy. Since you did not explain why it this problem is difficult in response to my query, I will just assume this is an easy problem and is logically equivalent to the problem that many of us solved a long time ago.

Anyway, I have voted that way in the poll.
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 709
December 7th, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

My experience tells me the problem is easy. Since you did not explain why it this problem is difficult in response to my query, I will just assume this is an easy problem and is logically equivalent to the problem that many of us solved a long time ago.

Anyway, I have voted that way in the poll.



Sir, with all due respect, why be like everyone else & vote when you haven't attempted to solve the problem yet? If you at least tried to solve it you would realize you're not seeing the problem for what it truly is! Let this be a lesson to always attempt to solve something before giving an opinion on the difficulty of a question; you let me down :/

Experience is meaningless when you are relating the problem to a question that is 1000x simpler to answer.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 709
December 7th, 2020 at 8:53:50 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

It gave the patron a lot of low frequency outcomes that had high paybacks. For example a suited 5 of a kind.

I didn't do the math for that game as I was just an entry level casino programmer 25 years ago. If I had to guess it might have been Rex Carlson that did the math for that game.



Btw there are 20 possible suited 5 of a kind hands (or Quint Flush) out of 75,287,520 hand combinations.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 110
December 8th, 2020 at 6:35:19 AM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

Sir, with all due respect, why be like everyone else & vote when you haven't attempted to solve the problem yet? If you at least tried to solve it you would realize you're not seeing the problem for what it truly is! Let this be a lesson to always attempt to solve something before giving an opinion on the difficulty of a question; you let me down :/

Experience is meaningless when you are relating the problem to a question that is 1000x simpler to answer.



Where does the 1000 times simpler come from? Do you have another theorem that proves this.

Again. you simply assert that the problem is complex and hard to solve. I just see a slightly larger version of a problem that I solved 20 years ago.

  • Jump to: