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pacomartin
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 10:32:20 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed


Mostrando does mean showing. But showing off is translated as "presumiendo," the verb is "presumir."



Nareed
How are these translations?

Él siempre está presumiendo - He is always showing off
El siempre está presuntuoso - He is always presumptious
El es presuntuoso - He is a presumptious man
Él presume que el está siempre correcto - He boasts that he is always correct
Él presume que el está muy inteligente - He boasts that he is very intelligent
Él ha presumado que el está muy inteligente - He has bragged that he is very intelligent
Él había presumado que el estába muy inteligente, en la isla - He had bragged that he was very smart on the island
Él está muy inteligente - He is very intelligent
Wizard
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June 7th, 2011 at 11:23:22 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Mostrando does mean showing. But showing off is translated as "presumiendo," the verb is "presumir."



Thanks. Somebody tell translate.google.com.
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pacomartin
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June 8th, 2011 at 12:22:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. Somebody tell translate.google.com.



Google Translate does not apply grammatical rules, since its algorithms are based on statistical analysis rather than traditional rule-based analysis. A solid base for developing a usable statistical machine translation system for a new pair of languages from scratch, would consist in having a bilingual text corpus (or parallel collection) of more than a million words and two monolingual corpora of each more than a billion words. Statistical models from this data are then used to translate between those languages.

To acquire this huge amount of linguistic data, Google used United Nations documents. The UN typically publishes documents in all six official UN languages, which has produced a very large 6-language corpus.

Because Google Translate uses statistical matching to translate rather than a dictionary/grammar rules approach, translated text can often include apparently nonsensical and obvious errors, often swapping common terms for similar but nonequivalent common terms in the other language, as well as inverting sentence meaning.

Google is shutting down it's free translation software in December

Quote: personal experience


There is a lot of statistical matching done in signal processing when I worked in research and development for the Navy. What is frustrating is that it clearly is not working sometimes. But since there are no algorithms there is nothing to tweak. Just endless calls for "more data"



After much searching, I did find a pretty comprehensive phrasal verb list of translations (English to Spanish only)

Examples:

Show (someone) around:
Mostrarle (a alguien) los alrededores, la ciudad, etc. Llevar a alguien a conocer la ciudad.
ex. "Don't worry, I'll show you around." (No te preocupes. Te llevo a conocer la ciudad.)

Show off:
Presumir.
ex. "He just loves to show off his new car, doesn't he?" (A él le encanta presumir con su nuevo coche, ¿qué no?

Show up:
1) Llegar. Asomarse. Aparecer.
ex. "He showed up at his aunt's house at 4 o'clock in the morning." (Llegó a la casa de su tía a las 4:00 de la mañana.)

2) To show (someone) up - Hacer quedar mal (a alguien)
ex. "The opening band showed the headliners up"
Wizard
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June 8th, 2011 at 7:28:19 AM permalink
Fecha: 8 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: Vegas


I've always been told that Las Vegas means such things as the meadows or fertile valley. This would make some sense because Las Vegas is in a valley surrounded by small mountain ranges. It was also a reliable source of cold springs for those traveling between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City. That all sounds fine and dandy. However, if you look of Vegas in a Spanish to English dictionary you get jack squat. If you look up meadow in the English to Spanish side then you get prado or pradera.

So I fail to see any support for the theory that Vegas=meadows, other than word of mouth. Perhaps Paco or Nareed can help shed some light on the etymology of the word. I'd like to remind Paco about the fine job he did at the last mystery word, pardall [sic]. Let's skip the "lost wages" jokes.

Ejemplo time

Me gusta parar al prado entonces mi caballo se puede beber agua. = I like to stop at the spring so my horse is able to drink water.
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Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 8:42:08 AM permalink
The dictionary defines "vega" as: Parte de tierra baja, llana y fértil.

Me, I learned Las Vegas means "the meadows" on a Showtime tour of Hoover Dam. Othern than applies to Las Vegas, too, I'd never heard any use of the word vega or vegas.

Oh, well, the translation of the above definition is "part of the land that's low, flat and fertile" I've no idea what low means in this context.
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Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 8:45:57 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Él presume que el está muy inteligente - He boasts that he is very intelligent



El presume que ES muy...

Quote:

Él ha presumado que el está muy inteligente - He has bragged that he is very intelligent



El ha presumido que ES muy... the second "el" is superflous. Oh, and its presumIdo rather than presumAdo

Quote:

Él había presumado que el estába muy inteligente, en la isla - He had bragged that he was very smart on the island
Él está muy inteligente - He is very intelligent



Se above about ES and the repetition of "el" and again presumAdo is not a word.
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Wizard
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June 8th, 2011 at 9:44:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

The dictionary defines "vega" as: Parte de tierra baja, llana y fértil.

Me, I learned Las Vegas means "the meadows" on a Showtime tour of Hoover Dam. Othern than applies to Las Vegas, too, I'd never heard any use of the word vega or vegas.

Oh, well, the translation of the above definition is "part of the land that's low, flat and fertile" I've no idea what low means in this context.



You must have a bigger dictionary than me. Low probably refers to the location being down in the valley, surrounded by mountains. That is why Vegas is prone to flash flooding.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 9:48:35 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You must have a bigger dictionary than me. Low probably refers to the location being down in the valley, surrounded by mountains. That is why Vegas is prone to flash flooding.



All I did was go to google.com.mx, type "diccioanrio" in the serach box, click on the first link (I didn't notice which one it was), and once there searched for "vega."
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pacomartin
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June 8th, 2011 at 10:04:37 AM permalink
EDIT: I took to long writing this answer, since several more comments have been added. The word is not in google translation probably because it is not commonly used to mean "flatland" anymore. Google does statistical translations. You should always double check with RAE.

Quote: Wizard

Palabra del día: Vegas



The Real Academia ESPAÑOLA says it is from a Pre-Roman word *vaica. Incidentally when a dictionary puts a * in front of the word, there is not a clear written history to the word. It is a guess by linguists as to how the word was pronounced. As there was no written language in Spain much before the Roman invasion, the research is all done through archeology, and linguistic analysis.

Vega is a feminine noun defined as parte de tierra baja or "lowlands" or as llana y fértil which means fertile flat land. There was a park in Oaxaca city that everyone called "El Llano" because it was completely flat.

The word "prado" is also spanish for "meadow" but is based on the latin word "pratum". It is more commonly used since that is the word that google uses for the translation.

Young girls posing in El llano.


Quote: Sidebar Spanish pre-history


Traces of modern man in Spain have been dated roughly 32 thousand years ago. It is generally assumed man came into Europe 50K years ago as part of his march out of Africa. Neanderthal skulls have also been unearthed in Southern Spain at about the same time. Parts of the peninsula remained warm (not the center) through the ice age, and were a bastion where survival of the species in Europe was possible. After the ice age about 11000 years ago the re-population of Europe began. The people who lived in Spain at that time are called Iberians.

Palaeolithic era caves at El Soplao and Altamira Caves in northern Spain near Santander with extravegant cave paintings are discovered in 1789 which are later dated 14K years ago. Metalworking begins about 5K years ago. About 3100 years ago Cadiz is rumored to be established by Hercules, but more probably Phoenician traders.

Less than 3000 years ago the celts come into Spain from Germany through France and across the Pyrenees. By 600BCE, they have established a culture in northern Spain. The Celts mixed with the Iberians in central Spain and subsequently produced the "Celtiberian" race.

Wikipedia has a list of Spanish words of Iberian or Basque origin.

Written history begins with Hannibal crossing through Spain on his way to the Alps with his team of war elephants to invade the Roman empire. These elephants from northern Africa are now extinct. Shortly afterwards the Romans invade and make modern Spain a critical component of their empire.

Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 3:25:57 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

But most English books describe "Tengo frío" as a Spanish idiom where "an idiom" is defined as an expression that cannot be immediately understood by analyzing its literal meaning.



As my history teacher used to say "Why do you insist on making my life so difficult?"

Seriously, she did say that...

Anwyay, it's not an idiom because that's how the expression is commonly used. I understand a literal translation is meaingless (I have cold), but that's true for many literal translations. The english term "crossexamine" has no good one-term translation into Spanish, for example. It may seem like an idiom, I'll admit, but treating it like that only complicates matters.

Quote:

Although it is common in textbooks to call it an idiomatic phrase, I never thought that the phrase "tengo frío" should properly described that way. The original latin word had the concept of sensation or feeling to it. We would not get the English word tender or in Spanish tierno from the same latin word. If you look it up the Latin it has the possible translation of "soft".



Sure. and plenty of words have drifted from what they meant in the original Latin, too. and soe words seem to mean the opposite of their apparent meaning. Like "inflamable," which works about as well in English and Spanish. I won't go into why it seems to mean "won't burn" when it actually means "will catch fire easily," because I'm sure you can figure it out or already know.

The point is the original meaning only takes you so far. usage changes menaings.


Quote:

But since it is described as an idiom, people do what the wizard did, and try to count the idioms using tener, that actually literally translate similar to "I have cold". But I admit I have trouble coming up with the proper word to describe the "feelings" associated with tener.



It's simple, really. Any phrase starting with "tengo" and following with a feeling like hunger, cold, thirst, envy, etc, translates as "I'm cold, hungry, thirsty, wahtever." If tengo is followed by anything else, then it means "I have..."


Quote:

It's like the sentence "mi abuelo está muerto" . Many people tell english speakers that estar is "to be" for temporary things, and "ser" is "to be" for permanent attributes. So an English speakers always say "mi abuelo es muerto" since they think death is a very permanent condition.



That's so wrong I don't know where to start.

Let's see. Estar means both location "Yo estoy en la oficina," and a current state "yo estoy contenta."

As far as I can see, it's the same in english. You'd ask someone "how are you?" and expect an answer like "I'm fine," or "I'm sick," or something. You might also ask someone "where are you?" and expect to here "I'm at home," or "I'm on the highway heading towards Topeka."

Ser means something more along the lines of being. So "Mi abuelo es muerto" would translate back in English as "My grandfather be dead," which really fails to make sense. If you ask someone "who are you?" she'd reply "I'm your worst nigthmare," for example. That means "Soy tu peor pesadilla." If you ask "Who is she?" and the answer is "She is the new history teacher," that translates as "es al nueva maestra de historia." That's the common use of the verb Ser.


Quote:

My Oaxacan Spanish teacher told me that "death is not permanent in Mexico (unlike the USA) because they are Catholic and they celebrate the day of the dead".



I don't know what the goyim believe, but I've never heard anyone in this country say death is not permanent, outside of psychics and assorted wackos. I know little about el día de los muertos beyond the facts that 1) I usually get the day off, 2) cemeteries are packed and flower sellers make a killing and 3) you find candy skulls for sale everywhere.

BTw elsewhere in this thread you claim the day of the dead is a pagan thing, which I suppose ti is. In this post you relay someone describing as a Catholic thing. Just pointing out the contradiction.

Quote:

How would you translate the name of this hip hop song, Sentir La Vida ? Would it be "To Feel Alive" ?



I try not to play audio or video on my computer; it tends to crash lately. Beyond that, I try to stay as far away from hip hop as is possible. Thanks for the warning :)

The title tranlsates as "Feeling life," or "Feeling the life."
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