Cooperation Game II
Poll
 | 23 votes (69.69%) | ||
| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| | 4 votes (12.12%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| | 2 votes (6.06%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| | 1 vote (3.03%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 4 votes (12.12%) |
33 members have voted
Quote: RomesUltimately, to protect ourselves (assuming we're pooling in the end) we should do half the teams steal, half the teams share. So long as we have a mixture we get all the prize pool money. The only way we ALL LOSE is if we ALL vote STEAL, so having everyone "except" one team vote STEAL kinda leaves our noses open, if that team happens to vote STEAL.
I like how you are reducing risk without reducing EV. There are an odd number of teams now... Not an even split. I would think 3 steals and 4 shares?
If you like that maybe you are King this round and call what team goes where.
Oh, this time I'll pass and still leave SOOPOO as our leader. Just wanted to throw some comments/suggestions/ideas in the ring, if I'm understanding the rules/payouts correctly.Quote: prozemaI like how you are reducing risk without reducing EV. There are an odd number of teams now... Not an even split. I would think 3 steals and 4 shares?
If you like that maybe you are King this round and call what team goes where.
SOOPOO, what say you?!?!
Quote: RomesUltimately, to protect ourselves (assuming we're pooling in the end) we should do half the teams steal, half the teams share. So long as we have a mixture we get all the prize pool money. The only way we ALL LOSE is if we ALL vote STEAL, so having everyone "except" one team vote STEAL kinda leaves our noses open, if that team happens to vote STEAL.
That's what I see, as well.
Trust, but verify.
A better strategy might be
Teams 1-3 vote share, others vote steal ,
No matter who is currently on the teams.
Quote: RomesOh, this time I'll pass and still leave SOOPOO as our leader. Just wanted to throw some comments/suggestions/ideas in the ring, if I'm understanding the rules/payouts correctly.
SOOPOO, what say you?!?!
I think SooPoo's gone up the river (on a cruise)... hopefully not sending all of us down the river.
I'm curious about your assumption about pooling. I know we got most of the folks on board with pooling last time, although IIRC, there was some debate as to each person's equity. Can we count on it this time? I've only seen a few commit here to pooling (plus Wizard explicitly said the rules allow for lying about such things).Quote: RomesUltimately, to protect ourselves (assuming we're pooling in the end) we should do half the teams steal, half the teams share. So long as we have a mixture we get all the prize pool money. The only way we ALL LOSE is if we ALL vote STEAL, so having everyone "except" one team vote STEAL kinda leaves our noses open, if that team happens to vote STEAL.
If we think everyone is on board for pooling/sharing, I like this strategy. I, for one, am planning to share/pool like we did last time. But, if there's a chance that a significant number of people don't want to pool/share, SOOPOO's strategy is still best since it distributes the winnings as evenly as possible. Personally, for this round, it doesn't really matter since I am on Team #2 -- voting "share" under both SOOPOO's strategy, and Romes'.
People on my team, how should we vote? Technically this may just be a formality, me asking, since I can do as I want. :)
Quote: AyecarumbaI think SooPoo's gone up the river (on a cruise)... hopefully not sending all of us down the river.
If soopoo is traveling and Rome's has deferred we need a vice-soopoo to call the play.
Any volunteers for the vice-soopoo gig?
3 of 5 members on my team support continuing to stay in a steal vote until being told otherwise.
I notice that none of SM777, Jufo81, and PlayYourCardsRight are captains this time, so its not an issue for this round.
Which team is supposed to vote SHARE this time?
Quote: gordonm888First, I was on team #2 last time with Romes, SM777, Jufo81, PlayYourCardsRight and I definitely voted STEAL. Since Romes voted SHARE, this means that at least 2 of SM777, Jufo81, and PlayYourCardsRight voted SHARE also.
I notice that none of SM777, Jufo81, and PlayYourCardsRight are captains this time, so its not an issue for this round.
Which team is supposed to vote SHARE this time?
That is assuming Rome's response was true. Do not think that because they are honest in real life, that they are here. Lying is acceptable here. I wouldn't be throwing people under the bus just yet.
Quote: RSFirst 4 teams should vote share and the rest of the teams vote steal. Maximize EV.
Let me make sure I have this right.
I'm team 4 cap... I vote share.
RS is team 5 cap... You vote steal.
Assuming you and I do this and winnings are split in the end, it really doesn't matter what anyone else does, right?
If so, I'm down with this plan and nominate RS as vice-soopoo.
Seems that we don't yet have all of us having committed to pool winnings.. That could be a problem.Quote: Romesso long as in the end we're pooling it all anyways)???
Quote: prozemaLet me make sure I have this right.
I'm team 4 cap... I vote share.
RS is team 5 cap... You vote steal.
Assuming you and I do this and winnings are split in the end, it really doesn't matter what anyone else does, right?
If so, I'm down with this plan and nominate RS as vice-soopoo.
Someone should make a list of who has and has not absorbed the risk of a share vote and has collaborated in good faith in case there is tomfoolery in the end.
Quote: RSUs team captains should go on strike and not vote. Who’s with me?!
People on my team, how should we vote? Technically this may just be a formality, me asking, since I can do as I want. :)
If you don't vote (assuming you're not joking), you and your teammates could get thrown out of the game. Wizard dumped 3 players from round 1 for not voting.
That seems less than optimal.
Quote: gordonm888First, I was on team #2 last time with Romes, SM777, Jufo81, PlayYourCardsRight and I definitely voted STEAL. Since Romes voted SHARE, this means that at least 2 of SM777, Jufo81, and PlayYourCardsRight voted SHARE also.
I notice that none of SM777, Jufo81, and PlayYourCardsRight are captains this time, so its not an issue for this round.
Which team is supposed to vote SHARE this time?
I voted steal as instructed in the thread. If you did also then Romes, SM777, and PlayYourCardsRight all must have voted share.
Quote: RSFirst 4 teams should vote share and the rest of the teams vote steal. Maximize EV.
Any combination that includes at least one steal team and one share team will work for the pool.
Soopoo had suggested teams share by rounds, so this (round 2) team 2 should share. Maybe, with it now depending on only a captain vote, one of the captains of another team should also vote share, since there's now a single point of failure with only a captain vote. Preferably another captain who's been active today and knows they're a captain.
What happens if our team Captain does not post a SHARE/STEAL vote to Wizard for Round 2? I assume that
1. No one on our team will be awarded any share of the Round 2 money?
2. The only person on the team who Wizard would remove from the game would be the Team Captain?
Not a problem at all... at the end of the game we might have something like $40... those that want to 'cash out' can have Mike PM them their $1 or whatever, then all of those who want to pool can and will, so we'll still end up with like $35 all the same.Quote: OnceDearSeems that we don't yet have all of us having committed to pool winnings.. That could be a problem.
C'mon bill...Quote: billryanThat is assuming Rome's response was true. Do not think that because they are honest in real life, that they are here. Lying is acceptable here. I wouldn't be throwing people under the bus just yet.
Quote: prozemaSomeone should make a list of who has and has not absorbed the risk of a share vote and has collaborated in good faith in case there is tomfoolery in the end.
I may or may not be planning on doing some skylarking.
I have no permanent allies. Only permanent interests.
Quote: RSI may or may not be planning on doing some skylarking.
It's thin line between Tomfoolery and skylarking.
Expect a scolding from our more anal moderators.
Second, if I don't hear from a team captain, I'll respect the vote of the second in command, as determined by the name listed second in each group.
Third, I already have a rule twist planned for round 3, so don't get too comfortable with the existing rules.
Fourth, when team captains submit their votes, please put in the title something like "Team x, round 2, steal (nc)." The nc means "no content in the body of the message."
Quote: PokerGrinderI don’t know if I can afford to be pooling my massive winnings. I mean $0.40 USD is like 6 months rent in Canada!
And an infinite amount of health care and snow.
For example, if we get blanked in any given round, does the $10 carry over to the next round making it worth $20?
I won't be moderating any anusses (Ani?) for cooperation game mischief. Mike's game, Mike's rulings. Some mischief will make for more amusement.Quote: billryanIt's thin line between Tomfoolery and skylarking.
Expect a scolding from our more anal moderators.
Just a personal opinion that saying you will share your winnings at the end of cooperating and then selfishly withholding them would be a bit too close to welching for me. Not saying what you'll do... Well that's a different matter.
IIRC and we are following soopoos's plan I take it we share this time as well. I will just assume everyone is cool with that?
Could you please answer this question from earlier? Thanks.
Quote: beachbumbabs(snip)...
Wizard, are YOU allowed to lie? Or must you post absolutely accurate results in all cases? I don't think we clarified whether you can lie just to see the hive start buzzing or whatever group dynamic you're testing. A case could be made that the rules apply to you as well.
Note. I am NOT saying you lied, even if you can. I think the assumption has been that you won't be. But our approach to all of this will need to change if you're allowed to lie to us.
Quote: WizardOnto round 2.
First, the following players are eliminated for not playing: MidwestAP, Boz, HeyMrDJ. If any feel this is an error on my part, please let me know.
Here are the teams for round 2:
Team Players 1 Torghatten, DJTeddyBear, OnceDear, gamerfreak, gordonm888 2 AxelWolf, Joeman, PokerGrinder, billryan, djatc 3 Ayecarumba, Face, beachbumbabs, Dalex64, Mikey75 4 prozema, GWAE, Keeneone, Jmarch79, UKMark 5 RS, JohnnyQ, SM777, Nathan, MidwestAP* 6 MaxPen, miplet, troopscott, PlayYourCardsRight 7 Romes, Jufo81, SOOPOO, onenickelmiracle
The player listed first shall be the team captain. Unlike round 1, this time only the team captain will submit a vote for the entire team. The team captain is encouraged to count votes among his team, but ultimately may submit any vote he wishes. For teams with four members, I recommend the team captain be given two votes.
Otherwise, same rules as last time. $10 prize pool again. Deadline for team votes in round two will be 9 AM Vegas time on Wednesday, July 4.
I'm accepting three newcomers at this point. If any come along they will be placed in one of the teams above with four players.
* MidwestAP was added after the initial posting.
Axel... I know you won't believe it but someone changed the rules for round two.
To the WIz:
You said only the Captain submits a vote for this round. How would you know the vote of the "2nd" Captain (if the Captain does not vote)?
Quote: prozemaRule clarification please... Is the payout $10 a round regardless of the results of the prior round?
For example, if we get blanked in any given round, does the $10 carry over to the next round making it worth $20?
Yes, every round is independent. There is no carryover.
Re-look at Djatc's vote I think you missed something.Quote: Wizard
Quote: NathanI have a confession to make. I don't have a PayPal account. Does that mean I have to resign? :/
Yes.
Quote: NathanI have a confession to make. I don't have a PayPal account. Does that mean I have to resign? :/
Retroactively, to three days before you first joined.
Quote: billryanRetroactively, to three days before you first joined.
LMAO! :D
Don't worry about it.Quote: NathanI have a confession to make. I don't have a PayPal account. Does that mean I have to resign? :/
Can someone confirm this: If we all SHARE we all lose OR if we all SHARE we ALL win??
I know if we all STEAL no one wins and
If x teams SHARE and x teams STEAL the STEAL teams share the $10 prize
However if "we all SHARE we all win" then surely all we need to do is all SHARE all the time meaning the $10 pot is split between all teams every round which maximises what we can get from the Wizard's pockets (which seems to be the aim)
We are relying on all teams cooperating but isn't that the name of the game :-)
On top of that if we all agree to all share all the time and we're pooling the proceeds at the end then what is the point of playing further rounds?
Quote: UKMarkJust for the record I'm in for the pooling of funds, just want to know/have a say where it's goes.
Can someone confirm this: If we all SHARE we all lose OR if we all SHARE we ALL win??
I know if we all STEAL no one wins and
If x teams SHARE and x teams STEAL the STEAL teams share the $10 prize
However if "we all SHARE we all win" then surely all we need to do is all SHARE all the time meaning the $10 pot is split between all teams every round which maximises what we can get from the Wizard's pockets (which seems to be the aim)
We are relying on all teams cooperating but isn't that the name of the game :-)
On top of that if we all agree to all share all the time and we're pooling the proceeds at the end then what is the point of playing further rounds?
LMAO! It's my educated theory that the big prize is actually more like $40($10 for each round which is like 4 rounds), and say 40 people are playing, so everyone gets $1 when the rounds are finished. :)
Quote: Nathan
LMAO! It's my educated theory that the big prize is actually more like $40($10 for each round which is like 4 rounds), and say 40 people are playing, so everyone gets $1 when the rounds are finished. :)
The reference to $10 was made for each round, well done with the maths, big tick :-)
I'll make a note to add more detail next time, just for you :-)
Quote: UKMarkJust for the record I'm in for the pooling of funds, just want to know/have a say where it's goes.
Can someone confirm this: If we all SHARE we all lose OR if we all SHARE we ALL win??
I know if we all STEAL no one wins and
If x teams SHARE and x teams STEAL the STEAL teams share the $10 prize
However if "we all SHARE we all win" then surely all we need to do is all SHARE all the time meaning the $10 pot is split between all teams every round which maximises what we can get from the Wizard's pockets (which seems to be the aim)
We are relying on all teams cooperating but isn't that the name of the game :-)
On top of that if we all agree to all share all the time and we're pooling the proceeds at the end then what is the point of playing further rounds?
This is just opening rounds. The rules are going to change (expected to anyway) each round. We don't know what's planned or what may develop; some changes may be conditional on what happens in previous rounds.Teams and alliances change every round.
Keep in mind that Wizard is a huge fan of Survivor, and is interested in human nature. Also that many people playing seek an edge for a living, and the rules have been set up to allow for duplicity and collusion.
People may or may not be telling the truth about pooling afterwards. May or may not be telling the truth about their vote. May or may not have hidden alliances.
It is two separate things to pool winnings among all share and steal teams each round, and to then pool whatever that amount is into a group bet. I don't know if that's clear yet to everyone. The first part is essential for maximum Wizard coin receipt; the second is almost irrelevant.
Wizard is tracking amounts awarded by individual names. If your team went "share", your members are now trusting that the others who "stole" in the end will follow through. That's why the "share" rotates, to try and strategically spread that risk and encourage the follow-through.
IMO: The group should insist on knowing who among them are committed to share or steal pooling (SOOPOO strategy, which may adjust in reaction to rule changes) . This information should NOT be available to the Wizard, because it will figure into team composition in future rounds. The group needs to identify who is not trying to eliminate them from some or all of the money down the line. However, the rules allow people to lie about it, so I'm not sure there's much point in trying to track it.
If people want to try anyway, I am willing to maintain a database (list) of commitments that I will NOT share with the Wizard. However, I will commit to releasing that database to players during the game for optimal strategy, and in the thread once the game is declared over. So people probably want to be truthful if such a database is agreed to and they volunteer their status . All via PM.
Or someone else of the group's choosing can have that duty. There are several credible people who come to mind.
