AxelWolf -- RIP

Quote: Wizard

Updating the list of WoV members we've lost. Anyone I'm missing?

Axelwolf
Steeldco (unconfirmed)
DanLubin
Perdition
Fleastiff (likely)
Moses

RIP all.
link to original post

You missed that guy I can't remember his name but he used his full name as his handle. I think he started the other gambling site and ran some gambling news.

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo

Quote: billryan

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo
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Alan. I think of him every time I walk past a display of Duncan products.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: billryan

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo
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Alan. I think of him every time I walk past a display of Duncan products.
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I wasn't being disrespectful; I couldn't think of his name. I was thinking Dick Oliver, but knew that wasn't right.

Quote: billryan

Quote: Dieter

Quote: billryan

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo
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Alan. I think of him every time I walk past a display of Duncan products.
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I wasn't being disrespectful; I couldn't think of his name. I was thinking Dick Oliver, but knew that wasn't right.
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Alan Mendelson. On his tombstone it says….

18 YO’S IN A ROW

I often disagreed with Alan, but I admired his tenacity.

"Innumerate"- Alan Shank, on the TV guy.

This is Axles facebook page which is public information, I got permission to post this from the head moderator so don't climb down my throat about doxxing somebody. When Dan Lubin died stuff about him was posted here and this puts a face to one of our oldest and most prolific members. I'm sure Axel would not mind at all

https://www.facebook.com/tyston.bethlen/

Quote: billryan

Quote: Dieter

Quote: billryan

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo
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Alan. I think of him every time I walk past a display of Duncan products.
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I wasn't being disrespectful; I couldn't think of his name. I was thinking Dick Oliver, but knew that wasn't right.
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No disrespect here, either.
Yo-yos make me smile these days, especially when 9 are lined up in a row.

Quote: Wizard

Updating the list of WoV members we've lost. Anyone I'm missing?

Axelwolf
Steeldco (unconfirmed)
DanLubin
Perdition
Fleastiff (likely)
Moses

RIP all.
link to original post

Pretty sure Petroglyph. Pacomartin disappeared same day elsewhere. Don’t know if that’s related.

Was going to mention someone else, but he got better.

Quote: rxwine

Was going to mention someone else, but he got better.
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I'm still here. 28 surgeries have not defeated me yet.

RIP Ty

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: billryan

Quote: Dieter

Quote: billryan

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo
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Alan. I think of him every time I walk past a display of Duncan products.
link to original post

I wasn't being disrespectful; I couldn't think of his name. I was thinking Dick Oliver, but knew that wasn't right.
link to original post

Alan Mendelson. On his tombstone it says….

18 YO’S IN A ROW
link to original post

Sounds like a brawl at a high school graduation.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: billryan

Quote: Dieter

Quote: billryan

Your favorite newscaster is not on the list., Yo
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Alan. I think of him every time I walk past a display of Duncan products.
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I wasn't being disrespectful; I couldn't think of his name. I was thinking Dick Oliver, but knew that wasn't right.
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Alan Mendelson. On his tombstone it says….

18 YO’S IN A ROW
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No one can prove he didn’t see it.

Quote: EvenBob

This is Axles facebook page which is public information, I got permission to post this from the head moderator so don't climb down my throat about doxxing somebody. When Dan Lubin died stuff about him was posted here and this puts a face to one of our oldest and most prolific members. I'm sure Axel would not mind at all

https://www.facebook.com/tyston.bethlen/
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I've been asked to share the following:

https://www.cattermolefh.com/obituary/Tyston-Bethlen

This is the funeral home that will be handling the arrangements.

RIP.

Is Axel the one with like 2000 player cards? If so what happened to them with the pins? I wonder how many player cards are in AP circulation of people who are no longer with us.

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Was going to mention someone else, but he got better.
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I'm still here. 28 surgeries have not defeated me yet.

RIP Ty
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lol fantastic!! Stay healthy

Quote: Slotenthusiast

RIP.

Is Axel the one with like 2000 player cards? If so what happened to them with the pins? I wonder how many player cards are in AP circulation of people who are no longer with us.
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I don't think it was him.

Quote: rxwine

Pretty sure Petroglyph. Pacomartin disappeared same day elsewhere. Don’t know if that’s related.
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I was pretty good friends with Paco in real life. He was just like his persona here -- full of facts but said little about himself. I hope he won't mind me saying that he moved to Pennsylvania and then just went silent. He was about my age but had some health issues. I tend to think death is the only thing that could silence him.

Updated list:

Confirmed:
Axelwolf
AlanMendelson
DanLubin
Perdition
Moses

Suspected:
Steeldco
Petroglyph
Pacomartin
Fleastiff

How many died under age 60? A.Wolf died at 54. DanLubin was 56?

Moses was 63. AlanMendelson 70.

Quote: Slotenthusiast

RIP.

Is Axel the one with like 2000 player cards? If so what happened to them with the pins? I wonder how many player cards are in AP circulation of people who are no longer with us.
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That's me.

I'm currently at about 1200. Cards get deactivated or casinos have crack downs. But I'm still plugging away.

I run my own operation so there isn't any AP circulation. When I pass away my daughter might try taking over.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Slotenthusiast

RIP.

Is Axel the one with like 2000 player cards? If so what happened to them with the pins? I wonder how many player cards are in AP circulation of people who are no longer with us.
link to original post

That's me.

I'm currently at about 1200. Cards get deactivated or casinos have crack downs. But I'm still plugging away.

I run my own operation so there isn't any AP circulation. When I pass away my daughter might try taking over.
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Ahh my bad! Glad you’re still around!

Fleastiff hasn’t posted for almost six years and he’s number seven on the top contributors list.

Quote: JimRockford

Fleastiff hasn’t posted for almost six years and he’s number seven on the top contributors list.
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He was older and sick for the last couple of years he was around and at the end he was in a nursing home for old poor people which he complained about daily and then all of a sudden we stopped hearing from him. In another 25 years maybe there's a chance he might be removed from the contributors list but don't count on it.

MrV reported under going treatment for cancer several years ago then suddenly stopped posting.

Quote: rainman

MrV reported under going treatment for cancer several years ago then suddenly stopped posting.
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Oh my gosh you are correct I'd completely forgotten about Mr V

Soon, this will all be moot as our personal LLM agents that we have been training with all our social media presences simply take over all conversations for us, as us.

I was thinking that this site would be ideal for that kind of reseaerch for several reasons: here for a long time, many posters have been here for a long time, and it's mostly words. Lots of conversations, about real topics, between very intelligent people with different perspectives and experiences. So the LLM would have a lot to work with.

So maybe we should give it a try- try verbally resurrecting one of our deceased members from his content posted here. Then all the people who have conversed with him can be the judge of how accurate it is, and prompt the machine to refine its modeling to get better at it. Imagine that, something important happening on WoV! Vegas, math, gambling, and groudbreaking research into digital immortality.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Soon, this will all be moot as our personal LLM agents that we have been training with all our social media presences simply take over all conversations for us, as us.

I was thinking that this site would be ideal for that kind of reseaerch for several reasons: here for a long time, many posters have been here for a long time, and it's mostly words. Lots of conversations, about real topics, between very intelligent people with different perspectives and experiences. So the LLM would have a lot to work with.

So maybe we should give it a try- try verbally resurrecting one of our deceased members from his content posted here. Then all the people who have conversed with him can be the judge of how accurate it is, and prompt the machine to refine its modeling to get better at it. Imagine that, something important happening on WoV! Vegas, math, gambling, and groudbreaking research into digital immortality.
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ISHYGDDT.
Naughty Monkey.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: rainman

MrV reported under going treatment for cancer several years ago then suddenly stopped posting.
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Oh my gosh you are correct I'd completely forgotten about Mr V
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Isn't he Missedhervee on DT?
https://diversitytomorrow.com/member/missedhervee/

.
MrV is alive and posting quite often at vegascasinotalk.com

.

damn, that's heavy. He would usually get some comped drinks when he played. I'll get some and pour them out in his honor. Great guy. RIP.

Cap'n Morgan, I presume.

This was sent to me by a former Forum member who wants me to post the story they wrote about their experience with Axel. I heavily redacted it at their request to remove any references to other people and personal references to themselves. This is what Axel did for a living so he must have been under a huge amount of stress all the time and that isn't good for you.

"When Axel first advertised on here for new team members (about 12 years ago), I went ahead and sent him a note asking to be considered.

A possible play came up and I was available. So I got the question a few days prior, and said, "Sure, let's give it a try".
Axel and company sent a smart, valued team member who went in a couple days early and heavily scouted the machine options and promo details because of the high expense involved in making the play. Then Axel came in and they spent a lot of time going over machines and doing some machine tracking. They asked M to help confirm some math for some of the other tricky machine options, since some things are not as easy and obvious as VP. (VP and other obvious machines weren't allowed.)

According to Axel, experience and knowledge and gut instincts all come into play in picking the targets. The team was disappointed the casino didn't have a particular, more valuable machine. Axel was torn between a few possibilities. He's happy with his decision, though, especially avoiding one particular machine. They looked at the promotion, examined the pay tables of every machine in the casino, and asked clarifying questions from the player’s club people. Then they re-checked everything the next morning before starting the play.

Part of the testing involved playing the machines that looked the best for several hundred dollars’ worth, seeing some trends and pays. The testing wasn’t just about the machines; it was about S…, who had the responsibility for the first time of deciding exactly what machines we would concentrate on, likely hit frequencies, bankroll needed to support the play, lots of other details. It all looked juicy enough to try at least once. They gave me the go-ahead, and I came and met them the night before, got my player's card, got a briefing on what my job was to be.

Axel also explained the ground rules about how I was to act, how to handle money, how to go through the various steps of the play as it appeared they would come, gave me a basic schedule, and to expect close oversight on the execution.

I came back early the next morning, in advance of the promotion starting time, and was the first one in line. There was only one guy following me, and he wanted a different machine than I did, so that worked great for both of us. He was in from out of town, looking at something more long-term at a different location, and decided to come by and catch this quick on his way home.

So I got the machine Axel had selected as the best one for our purposes, inserted my player's card and a $100 of my own, and hung out making a slow minimum bet to keep the machine busy.

Axel and crew got there about 10 minutes later, and could not believe we were the only AP-looking people in the area. I pointed out the other guy I'd visited with while I was waiting for the promotion to start, and Axel went and talked to him a bit. The other AP was still scouting the machines and waiting to speak to a manager, trying to sort out some of the details before he spent money. I think he and Axel knew some guys in common, not a good thing in every case; Axel later said he’d heard of the guy, hadn’t gotten to meet him before, but had a great amount of respect for his reputation as a solo AP.

Axel came back with a large wad of bills in his hand, and I was bankrolled and ready to start. It was very strange for me to have that much money in my hand; 50 crisp Benjamins just to start. I had decided to treat it like Monopoly money.

I was very surprised at how quickly I hit; it only took $662 to make over $4000.  The paperwork took most of 1/2 hour, for the first part of the promo, then I stepped out, passed off all of the money to Axel, and went back in to do the second half. That took a lot longer, and I was less knowledgeable on that part, so Axel  mentored me, but his training method is a little different, telling you to do something that seemed wrong (he hoped) and waiting to see if you caught the bad advice. I gave him some crap about it, mostly because I was taking it all very  seriously with it being other people’s money, but all in all we had a good time.

Turned out, I could do it again the following week. The crew took a look at the results of the first week and decided to go again.  I came back early that morning and made sure I was first in line again, grabbed the same machine, put in $100. 

3 other AP crews came in behind me. I wasn't positive they were AP’s at first, but they were quite open about it. A couple of guys who did well, 3 middle-aged women who I think broke even, and a very friendly group of 4 guys who said they were "locals". The locals were kind of interesting, because they were breaking every rule Axel had set for me (and the crew) and were just throwing money around. He was right, too; after a few hours they got thrown out after losing (depending on which one was talking about it) between $15K and $20K for their money guys (because they weren't allowed to finish up). I watched the money guys striding angrily out of the front doors, one shoving a TITO slip in his wallet, arguing about who did what to get thrown out. Oops!

So after about 45 minutes of dog-in-the-manger on the best machine,  I'm watching these other teams make $5K, $7K, 2K, 3K,

Then, after another hour, another handful of money. This time, it takes about $2500, but I hit for $10K. Part of the fun was sitting at the machine waiting for the paperwork, because all the other AP crews were cruising the area to see what I hit and giving me congratulations.

I head out with the first part and hand off all the cash…, and we relax for a little while before going back in. I feel a bit more comfortable with the second part this time,  and Axel double-checks several times to make sure I’m doing it the best way. Mean time, others are taking their turns and going through the process. A nice lunch with Axel, and we finish up their part of the play in a different part of the casino at a nice, relaxed pace. I hear that ZZZ has had the best hit yet, a really decent amount, and while a couple people lost, overall it’s a good win. I didn’t take a hotel this time because of other obligations, so I take off soon after that. Next time, however, I have instructions to recruit some more people to come play next time, as long as there is a next time.

Third time is not the charm for me. Same routine, except even better managed, with lots of team there, more experience, and more people involved. Axel is scouting the area and sees someone he needs to keep an eye on. I get my same first-in-line machine but this time it takes me 7K to hit for 5K.  I lost! 
Meanwhile, 2 other AP crews are careless and get thrown out.  And then parts of the crew that got thrown out the previous week came wandering around, hoping to pick up a sponsor and get paid (they approached me first, probably because we’d visited for a while the time before, and I suggested they inquire further). Axel agreed to employ them, and it came out really well; one guy hit big on his first spin (I think it was the 2nd best hit overall), and the second one won too.

But there's some whispering going on here and there, and the slot people who'd been so nice to me every week stayed nice, but they were acting a little funny too. Sure enough, the casino decided they'd lost too much money and killed the promotion before the day was out. I heard there were still more people coming in that had to turn around without getting to play, but I think it was still a success. I gotta give kudos to the scouting, though, because the machine that hurt the casino the worst (scuttlebutt I heard from the slot attendant) was the one they had picked for me to play.

So we find some lunch again, settle up to that point, and decide to hang out a bit. I go play with Axel while other crew members are doing their thing. And he is so bold, when the Host comes up to talk, he makes him take my card out of the machine and go look at the account. I'm going, here's where I get thrown out...and the Host comes back and has loaded a bunch of free play on my card and hands me a bunch of comps! I could NOT believe it. So I play it off, cash it in for Axel, and we all head out.

 These guys saw it all coming ahead of time, planned for it, and it all worked out great. I saw what happened to those who didn't. Axel and his team worked really well together and made it pay."

What did the other APs do that got them thrown out? (And after $15k lost.. sheesh )
Why wasnt the main person in your post thrown out?

Quote: 100xOdds

What did the other APs do that got them thrown out? (And after $15k lost.. sheesh )
Why wasnt the main person in your post thrown out?
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My impression was they were being loud and talking to each other on different machines and exchanging money and these are things you don't do if you're on a team. You're not even supposed to recognize each other let alone talking and exchanging money. They were amateurs. Axel's team was not thrown out because they were professionals and the casino didn't know they were a team.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: 100xOdds

What did the other APs do that got them thrown out? (And after $15k lost.. sheesh )
Why wasnt the main person in your post thrown out?
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My impression was they were being loud and talking to each other on different machines and exchanging money and these are things you don't do if you're on a team. You're not even supposed to recognize each other let alone talking and exchanging money. They were amateurs. Axel's team was not thrown out because they were professionals and the casino didn't know they were a team.
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Yes, being seen passing money around is a mistake. When I do this I do it in the restroom. Better to be suspected of doing a drug deal than being an advantage player!

Talking is good, because casinos are supposed to be social places and not talking to anyone might stand out more than talking. And everyone knows card counters can't talk or drink or do anything else when they are playing.

People can say what they want. I haven't been able to find the correct words to do poetic justice for Axel. I'm ashamed I couldn't be a better friend in the end. This guy was a legendary gambler. There was mystery around him and his team. Even when I was at his wedding, I had doubts that this was even real. I'm aghast at how it turned out. RIP my friend.

He loved to argue. No argument there. A single post feels short of what he deserves. Damn I miss my friend.

Quote: Mooseton2

People can say what they want. I haven't been able to find the correct words to do poetic justice for Axel. I'm ashamed I couldn't be a better friend in the end. This guy was a legendary gambler. There was mystery around him and his team. Even when I was at his wedding, I had doubts that this was even real. I'm aghast at how it turned out. RIP my friend.

He loved to argue. No argument there. A single post feels short of what he deserves. Damn I miss my friend.
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There was a bunch of arguing between Axel and other people in the original story but I edited it all out because it wasn't relevant but yeah, in the original story it even got him kicked out for getting into a loud argument with somebody.

Quote: Dieter

No disrespect here, either.
Yo-yos make me smile these days, especially when 9 are lined up in a row.
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Yes, that's 9.

Axel is one of the smartest people I know. He's so secretive, but he should not be forgotten. Is there a funeral planned?

Quote: Wizard

Quote: rxwine

Pretty sure Petroglyph. Pacomartin disappeared same day elsewhere. Don’t know if that’s related.
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I was pretty good friends with Paco in real life. He was just like his persona here -- full of facts but said little about himself. I hope he won't mind me saying that he moved to Pennsylvania and then just went silent. He was about my age but had some health issues. I tend to think death is the only thing that could silence him.

Updated list:

Confirmed:
Axelwolf
AlanMendelson
DanLubin
Perdition
Moses

Suspected:
Steeldco
Petroglyph
Pacomartin
Fleastiff
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What happened to Tringlomane?
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/tringlomane/

He had a higher post count than me but just stopped coming in mid 2025.

I read a lot of good stuff from Tringlomane on another site called VMB - Vegas Message Board (assuming it is the same person). He lists a lot of good stuff at that VMB outfit and helps everyone out with analyses relating to gambling math (his VP and parlays insights have helped me a lot!). A big thing at VMB is people recapping or presenting in real-time their Vegas visit with "trip reports"- the ones contributed by Tringlomane have great detail and are supported with awesome pictures.

Quote: MDawg

Cap'n Morgan, I presume.
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Captain and Coke -- always.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: MDawg

Cap'n Morgan, I presume.
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Captain and Coke -- always.
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One of the worst things you can drink on a regular basis is spiced rum and Coke.. Puts an extra heavy burden on your liver because of all the additives in the spice rum and all the sugar in the coke just adds to the problem. From what I've heard he drank heavy amounts of this for years and years. The reason you see true Alcoholics drink nothing but vodka is not because it's cheap it's because it has no impurities, the hangovers are far less severe.

Rubbing alcohol for you?

Quote: MDawg

Rubbing alcohol for you?
link to original post

If you're serious about drinking avoid anything that was aged in a barrel because it imparts a huge amount of impurities into the alcohol and this is what screws up your liver. This is why beer is one of the worst things you can drink in quantities over a long period. Beer is nothing but impurities as is wine. Straight distilled vodka and straight distilled rum are your best bets. The rubbing alcohol they're referring to in the video I'm sure is vodka

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: MDawg

Rubbing alcohol for you?
link to original post

If you're serious about drinking avoid anything that was aged in a barrel because it imparts a huge amount of impurities into the alcohol and this is what screws up your liver. This is why beer is one of the worst things you can drink in quantities over a long period. Beer is nothing but impurities as is wine. Straight distilled vodka and straight distilled rum are your best bets. The rubbing alcohol they're referring to in the video I'm sure is vodka
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Ethyl alcohol was once used for massage and medical purposes just because it was easier. Isopropyl manufacture was developed during Prohibition because of the difficulties in getting ethanol.

The most toxic thing about drinking alcohol is the acetaldehyde that the liver metabolizes it to, and there's nothing you can do about it except limit your consumption. Aldehydes tend to be quite toxic but they also impart a lot of pleasant taste and smell, in minuscule amounts. What you might be thinking of is congeners which are other compounds, usually other alcohols, generated during the fermentation process and none of them are good for you, although they also impart taste. But whatever you drink, none of it will do as much damage as the acetaldehyde you will be getting if you consume any alcohol at all.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Wizard

Quote: MDawg

Cap'n Morgan, I presume.
link to original post

Captain and Coke -- always.
link to original post

One of the worst things you can drink on a regular basis is spiced rum and Coke.. Puts an extra heavy burden on your liver because of all the additives in the spice rum and all the sugar in the coke just adds to the problem. From what I've heard he drank heavy amounts of this for years and years. The reason you see true Alcoholics drink nothing but vodka is not because it's cheap it's because it has no impurities, the hangovers are far less severe.
link to original post

I find it difficult to enjoy pure grain alcohol mixed with rainwater.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: MDawg

Rubbing alcohol for you?
link to original post

If you're serious about drinking avoid anything that was aged in a barrel because it imparts a huge amount of impurities into the alcohol and this is what screws up your liver. This is why beer is one of the worst things you can drink in quantities over a long period. Beer is nothing but impurities as is wine. Straight distilled vodka and straight distilled rum are your best bets. The rubbing alcohol they're referring to in the video I'm sure is vodka
link to original post

It you’re serious about drinking, you’re not real serious about health. Reminds me of a guy I knew who wouldn’t drink Gordon,s gin because it came in a plastic bottle.

Quote: JimRockford

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: MDawg

Rubbing alcohol for you?
link to original post

If you're serious about drinking avoid anything that was aged in a barrel because it imparts a huge amount of impurities into the alcohol and this is what screws up your liver. This is why beer is one of the worst things you can drink in quantities over a long period. Beer is nothing but impurities as is wine. Straight distilled vodka and straight distilled rum are your best bets. The rubbing alcohol they're referring to in the video I'm sure is vodka
link to original post

It you’re serious about drinking, you’re not real serious about health. Reminds me of a guy I knew who wouldn’t drink Gordon,s gin because it came in a plastic bottle.
link to original post

Most people don't know that vodka was unknown in the United States until after World War Two. If you went into a bar and ordered a vodka martini in 1938 they wouldn't have known what you're talking about. It wasn't until the 1950s and aggressive marketing that vodka became popular because you could mix it with anything. And it gave you very little hangover compared to whiskey. Of course vodka has been popular in Russia since the 14th century but that's a different story.