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MathExtremist
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May 25th, 2016 at 6:02:38 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I never said "there is no other possibility." I keep saying that you have to *consider* Intelligent Design, You cannot really be intelligent without considering it to be quite honest. It is quite a simple concept, really. Life forms cannot be infinite. We know this because we know the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So it had to form from somewhere. Why did it not form on any of the other 8 (I am grandfathering Pluto) planets? Should be just as much chance.

I've explained the flaws in your above logic before; the fact that you keep repeating yourself, without substantively addressing my rebuttals, is ample indication that your mind is closed to learning about the science. You cannot disprove the theory that the Earth and all its creatures were created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster, but presumably you reject that origin story. But if you could be honest with yourself, you would have to admit that, once you reject science and rational inquiry, FSM is no more or less likely as ID because you have no evidence or proof of either.

But thinking that the probability of life should be equally likely on Earth, Mercury, Pluto, or any of the other bodies orbiting the Sun is just innumerate. That's like saying you have a 50-50 chance to live if you fall out of an airplane at 35,000 feet because there are only two possibilities.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
AZDuffman
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May 25th, 2016 at 6:19:02 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I've explained the flaws in your above logic before; the fact that you keep repeating yourself, without substantively addressing my rebuttals, is ample indication that your mind is closed to learning about the science. You cannot disprove the theory that the Earth and all its creatures were created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster, but presumably you reject that origin story. But if you could be honest with yourself, you would have to admit that, once you reject science and rational inquiry, FSM is no more or less likely as ID because you have no evidence or proof of either.



You have not explained any logic flaws. You keep pushing your religious beliefs and saying I am wrong for considering intelligent design just because you reject even the possibility,

Quote:

But thinking that the probability of life should be equally likely on Earth, Mercury, Pluto, or any of the other bodies orbiting the Sun is just innumerate. That's like saying you have a 50-50 chance to live if you fall out of an airplane at 35,000 feet because there are only two possibilities.



Not at all. If things are all random then many planets should be able to support life, Not as we know it, but something that adapts. Even some sort of micro-life should just spring up over billions or years to fill the vacuum. And you still cannot say just why life would emerge from no life.

Then you ask why I do not show some kind of proper respect for "education." Your whole line here shows why. You claim to be educated, yet refuse to show intellectual curiosity. You are pushing a religious belief while mocking another. I would ask you why you thought that religion shows up anthropologically around the world in virtually every society in one form or another. From the religions of Christianity to Jewish to the religion of Global Warming. I''d ask but am tired of talking about spaghetti.

But I will ask one thing. If you do not believe in "imaginary" things. how is it you express the square root of -1?
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rxwine
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May 25th, 2016 at 6:40:21 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Then you ask why I do not show some kind of proper respect for "education."



The result of education is we can target a cruise missile to come in your bedroom window and strike you on your pumpkin head while you're sleeping. There are layers and layers of education of all sorts to reach that kind of technology,

And what do you have from the non-educated folks? A fancy bow & arrow maybe and a fake deity?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
AZDuffman
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May 25th, 2016 at 6:44:06 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

The results of education is we can target a cruise missile to come in your bedroom window and strike you on your pumpkin head while you're sleeping. There are layers and layers of education of all sorts to reach that kind of technology,

And what do you have from the non-educated folks? A fancy bow & arrow maybe and a fake deity?



Go right ahead. Every nation with declared nuclear weapons has been attacked or/and lost a war to a nation without them. Nice personal insult, though. Sure sign I am winning the discussion.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rxwine
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May 25th, 2016 at 6:51:59 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Nice personal insult, though.



Thanks.
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MathExtremist
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May 25th, 2016 at 7:24:56 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

You have not explained any logic flaws. You keep pushing your religious beliefs and saying I am wrong for considering intelligent design just because you reject even the possibility,

Now you're deliberately misinterpreting my prior arguments, and that's fundamentally dishonest. I previously said that I don't reject intelligent design -- I can't test it. That's a qualitative distinction that you simply fail to appreciate. That's why you don't comprehend what I'm saying even when I repeat myself.

Quote:

If things are all random then many planets should be able to support life, Not as we know it, but something that adapts. Even some sort of micro-life should just spring up over billions or years to fill the vacuum.

This is utterly and terribly wrong, but you don't understand biology or mathematics so you don't understand why. This is devolving into a silly display of your lack of science knowledge.

Quote:

You claim to be educated, yet refuse to show intellectual curiosity. You are pushing a religious belief while mocking another.

Again you fail to distinguish between testable, evidence-based observations and untestable, faith-based dogma. There is no possible intellectual curiousity with regard to intelligent design, either your chosen flavor or another one. You want to take the Flying Spaghetti Monster off the table because you can't disprove it? Let's use a historical version: How do you know that Ra did not create life on Earth?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra
Or Chaos, Gaia, and Eros?
http://www.igreekmythology.com/creation-myth.html
You cannot use logic or evidence to distinguish your chosen creation myth (Intelligent Design) from either the ancient Egyptian or Greek creation myths. The only way you can provide support for Intelligent Design is to start with the end in mind ("God made the world, therefore God made the world") and that's invalid circular reasoning.

Here's a relevant difference between us, and why your reference to intellectual curiosity is so hilariously hypocritical. I am comfortable admitting that I don't know things, and that others don't know things. You, on the other hand, are so uncomfortable with the idea of a lack of knowledge that you need to invent supernatural explanations for things you don't understand. You asked about the origin of religion? That's it right there. That's why the ancients believed Apollo carried the sun across the sky in a chariot, or that Ra's tears created all humanity. We know those explanations don't hold water, now, because the intellectually-curious among us developed scientific methods of testing those questions. If everyone were as devoid of wonder as you are, we'd still believe in the ancient Greek origin story or geocentricity. For you, "God did it" is enough of an answer to any question, end of story, with no point in investigating further. Fortunately, actual scientists don't share your willful lack of inquiry. Importantly, that lack of curiosity is the last thing we should be teaching our children. That's why no faith-based dogma belongs in science class, regardless of whether it's the Judeo-Christian origin story, the Greek origin story, the Egyptian origin story, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster origin story. None of them are valid scientific theories.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DRich
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May 25th, 2016 at 8:08:16 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine



And what do you have from the non-educated folks? A fancy bow & arrow maybe and a fake deity?



Yes, companies like Microsoft, Apple, Facebook will never succeed because their founders are all college dropouts.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
rxwine
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May 25th, 2016 at 8:38:14 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Yes, companies like Microsoft, Apple, Facebook will never succeed because their founders are all college dropouts.



Actually, I would question the assertion they are uneducated or did not benefit from efforts of other traditionally educated people whether directly or not.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
MathExtremist
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May 25th, 2016 at 9:06:59 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Calling someone a racist is a serious charge. Can you explain why you believe he is?

You're kidding, right? Even real conservatives (which Trump isn't) think Trump is racist:

https://www.nationalreview.com/nrd/articles/430412/conservatives-against-trump

Here are more Trump quotes and examples:

Quote: Donald J. Trump


"I have a great relationship with the blacks."

"I love Hispanics!" (Said while eating a taco bowl on Cinco de Mayo, a Mexican (but not generally Hispanic) holiday.)

"The Hispanics are going to get those jobs, and they’re going to love Trump."

"I’m doing good for the Muslims"

"Jeb Bush is crazy, who cares that he speaks Mexican, this is America, English !!"

His casino was fined $200,000 for pulling black dealers from a game when a high-roller visited, and his floor managers pulled black employees from the floor when Trump himself visited.

"I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

"Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Then there was the opening salvo about Mexican immigrants being criminals, killers, and rapists, which is not only racist but blatantly false:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Boz
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May 25th, 2016 at 9:26:17 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

You're kidding, right? Even real conservatives (which Trump isn't) think Trump is racist:

https://www.nationalreview.com/nrd/articles/430412/conservatives-against-trump

Here are more Trump quotes and examples:

Then there was the opening salvo about Mexican immigrants being criminals, killers, and rapists, which is not only racist but blatantly false:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/08/donald-trumps-false-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/



If those are what you consider racist, most of us have been at one time or another. Not sure why liberals do not think how blacks and Mexicans are treated in this country by Democrats is not racist. There is little opportunity for young blacks in our cities and it hasn't changed in 50 years. Mexicans are being used as cheap labor because they are willing to do "The Jobs Americans won't".
Boz
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May 25th, 2016 at 9:30:41 PM permalink
Quote: ams288

Rumor has it the bookies are going to start favoring Trump to win in November based on Boz's enlightening Lowes anecdote.




Thanks for validating my research! All your worst fears are coming true and there is nothing you can do about it except to degrade others who believe in Trump. But then again, isn't that the basis of the liberal mindset? Fear is what causes them to riot in the streets. But what is it you fear??
Boz
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May 25th, 2016 at 9:33:00 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Um, the betting odds *have* shifted. Clinton had been about a 3-1 favorite for weeks or months. Now she's less than a 2-1 favorite.



Correct. It seems those who gave longer odds on Trump on here may not have made a good bet based on value. It's said you should leave personal feelings about one side or the other out of gambling. Seems some forgot them when betting on Hillary.
MathExtremist
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May 25th, 2016 at 9:46:15 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

If those are what you consider racist, most of us have been at one time or another.

Not once have I ever removed all employees of a particular skin color from my casino because a high roller was coming in, nor would I. Do you actually think that's okay? Not once have I ever said "Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Do you actually think that's okay? Do the people you associate with think that way?

If you think calling all black people lazy isn't racist, you don't know what bigotry is and, I'd infer, you've never experienced bigotry yourself. If you think "most of us" believe that "laziness is a trait in blacks" then you're just wrong. You might personally think that, but that would make you just as racist as Trump.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Boz
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May 25th, 2016 at 9:53:32 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Not once have I ever removed all employees of a particular skin color from my casino because a high roller was coming in, nor would I. Do you actually think that's okay? Not once have I ever said "Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Do you actually think that's okay? Do the people you associate with think that way?

If you think calling all black people lazy isn't racist, you don't know what bigotry is and, I'd infer, you've never experienced bigotry yourself. If you think "most of us" believe that "laziness is a trait in blacks" then you're just wrong. You might personally think that, but that would make you just as racist as Trump.



So you pick that quote while you posted 10 including one about him eating Mexican Food? I assume you consider everyone racist who celebrated Cinco?

Selective targeting, is that what that math degree taught you? I get that you think you are superior to most, most liberals do, but be more creative than that. Posting 10 Trump statements and then picking the one almost everyone on both sides feel is wrong to use, really?
MichaelBluejay
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May 25th, 2016 at 10:01:49 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

I get that you think you are superior to most, most liberals do....

Repeating that ad nauseous doesn't make it true. For the umpteenth time, pointing out the logical failings of a FEW people is not the same as feeling superior to MOST people. You have a big problem with your understanding of the word "most".
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
MathExtremist
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May 25th, 2016 at 10:25:45 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

So you pick that quote while you posted 10 including one about him eating Mexican Food?

You don't understand why that was racist, I see. You may not understand that Cinco de Mayo is a political holiday, not a racial one. You may not understand that "Hispanic" doesn't mean the same thing as "Mexican." You may not understand that taco bowls are not Mexican food. You may never have been to Mexico and realized that tacos aren't crunchy or filled with drippy orange ground beef, beans, cheese, nor do they come with plastic packets of chemical preservatives masquerading as hot sauce. You might not know those things, but Trump does. That makes his racism intentional, not merely ignorant.

Quote:

Selective targeting, is that what that math degree taught you? I get that you think you are superior to most, most liberals do, but be more creative than that. Posting 10 Trump statements and then picking the one almost everyone on both sides feel is wrong to use, really?

You're playing apologist for a bigot yet you're accusing me of acting superior? Nice one.

If you have a gun and you shoot at 10 people but only kill one, you're still a murderer. If you make 10 statements that treat an entire group of people as a monolithic whole based only on the color of their skin, but one statement is far more deplorable than the others, you're still a racist. These things don't average out. Trump is a bigot even if he doesn't say bigoted things all the time.

Go back and re-read the National Review article. See how you can justify your faith in Trump after reading the viewpoints of actual conservatives.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Rigondeaux
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May 25th, 2016 at 10:43:15 PM permalink
I don't know how seriously to take Trump's racism. The "drug dealers and rapists" line is a bit overblown, I think. If your de facto immigration policy is, anybody who wants to leave their country can come to ours, that is a concern. But, I'd imagine some number of people fleeing Ireland or Poland a hundred years ago were also doing so because they'd committed crimes.

The problem is, he seems too eager to pin the blame for this situations on common people of a given group. Rampant illegal immigration is bad, but it's not all the fault of the immigrants. It's largely the fault of the politicians and businesses that favor that arrangement because it allows them to use workers who have no rights.

The situation in the ME is effed up, but it's not all the fault of random Muslims.

The blacks are lazy line is pretty hard to brush off, as is removing black employees to placate a racist high roller.
jjjoooggg
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May 26th, 2016 at 12:21:38 AM permalink
I don't think Trump is a career politician. He doesn't need more money.

All the other candidates have monetary reasons for running.

I could be wrong. But that's what I'm leaning towards.

I think people resort to mudslinging when they can't think of real solutions to problems.

A radio host in our city lost his job and was blacklisted. He is now elderly and talks about this on his new radio show. Trump is somewhat fearless because he takes his paycheck from no person.

As a business owner that has worked next to all minorities since i was 11 working overtime throughout my high school years. I and my company have been accused of false racism and inhumanity. We are going through a trail right now. The plantiff has absolutely no case when you read the 200 pages of text that she deserves physical disability. You hear the most outrageous accusations from employees, cops, and customers as a business owner. We get a frivolous legal threat every three months. Every six months it turns into a legal case. We have been in business for over 50 years. Also, the people working for the city are bullies too. If they just feel like bullying, they will. Regular people who never experience this are easily suckered into believing anything they read. If the establishment wants to destroy Trump. They just say he is from Mars and most will believe.

Some of the things in the news may be true. But I wouldn't trust the media just because .
Last edited by: jjjoooggg on May 26, 2016
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AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:18:39 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Now you're deliberately misinterpreting my prior arguments, and that's fundamentally dishonest. I previously said that I don't reject intelligent design -- I can't test it. That's a qualitative distinction that you simply fail to appreciate. That's why you don't comprehend what I'm saying even when I repeat myself.



You cannot test for what global temperature was even 250 years ago, either. But you believe in global warming. The point of intelligent design is that it has to be taken on faith that there is a force greater than humanity. Scientists have a devil of a time believing man is not at the top and cannot figure our or do anything to the point that many think we can control the temperature of a planet that has never had a stable temperature. Mankind is not the top force in the universe, or at least I sure hope it is not.

Quote:

You cannot use logic or evidence to distinguish your chosen creation myth (Intelligent Design) from either the ancient Egyptian or Greek creation myths. The only way you can provide support for Intelligent Design is to start with the end in mind ("God made the world, therefore God made the world") and that's invalid circular reasoning.



Days of this discussion and your religious beliefs still prevent you from seeing the point of intelligent design. It does not matter what you call the greater being, it matters that the force can be there. You do not get to test it. It is greater than you are or will ever be, Scientists tent to be very arrogant in the regard of admitting this.
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AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:24:20 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

You don't understand why that was racist, I see. You may not understand that Cinco de Mayo is a political holiday, not a racial one. You may not understand that "Hispanic" doesn't mean the same thing as "Mexican." You may not understand that taco bowls are not Mexican food. You may never have been to Mexico and realized that tacos aren't crunchy or filled with drippy orange ground beef, beans, cheese, nor do they come with plastic packets of chemical preservatives masquerading as hot sauce. You might not know those things, but Trump does. That makes his racism intentional, not merely ignorant.



Racism is a charge most often leveled when an opponent has nothing intelligent to offer and wants to deflect the situation. Other times it is a tactic to deflect from the bad behavior of the person making the charge. In the case of Trump, Mexicans crying racism are out causing violent riots. Personally I have had the charge made by employees who were just not doing their job to actively destroying the business they worked it.

Come up with something serious.
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ams288
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:41:57 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Thanks for validating my research! All your worst fears are coming true and there is nothing you can do about it except to degrade others who believe in Trump. But then again, isn't that the basis of the liberal mindset? Fear is what causes them to riot in the streets. But what is it you fear??



My worst fear would be the country electing a psychotic right winger like Ted Cruz.

If we have to elect a Republican, I'm okay with electing the one who was a liberal Democrat for most of his life.

But he isn't going to win. So this is all irrelevant.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
RonC
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May 26th, 2016 at 4:05:20 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

My worst fear would be the country electing a psychotic right winger like Ted Cruz.

If we have to elect a Republican, I'm okay with electing the one who was a liberal Democrat for most of his life.

But he isn't going to win. So this is all irrelevant.



If you are wrong, you'll be the next nominee to join the EB Election Prediction Hall of Fame...joining the founding member.

C'mon...you have to understand that Trump can win...and so can Hillary. It is not anywhere close to a "done deal"...
Rigondeaux
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May 26th, 2016 at 4:29:54 AM permalink
I'll take +260 on Trump. If he has no shot, anybody is free to take my money.

I got into a chat with a bunch of somewhat high profile leftists, via a friend. We're not talking Stalinists here or anything, just the sort of person who has supported Bernie, who is sick of war, opposes TPP, etc.

Not a one is voting for Hillary. Some are considering voting for Trump, and I'd say a majority hope Trump wins if it is him and Hill. Part of the reason for this is that the Hill campaign is STILL trying to smear Sanders supporters as violent, racist, etc. It's hard to think of a dumber tactic in any venue. She is such a bad candidate and it is such a bad campaign.

I'm looking at Bernie +300 in Cali. If he gets that debate with Trump, what a coup. A high profile, high ratings event, with Hillary sitting on the sidelines. There might be some demographic barriers though. There are a lot of limo liberals too, which is all Hillary.
ams288
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May 26th, 2016 at 4:59:20 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

If you are wrong, you'll be the next nominee to join the EB Election Prediction Hall of Fame...joining the founding member



Yes, but I won't take a months long hiatus from the board afterwards and then pretend like nothing happened when I return.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
Sabretom2
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May 26th, 2016 at 5:17:50 AM permalink
Quote: Sabretom2

Ok, let's try this.
Greatest contribution as a Senator?
Greatest contribution as Secretery of State?



Crickets...
Boz
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May 26th, 2016 at 7:25:16 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Yes, but I won't take a months long hiatus from the board afterwards and then pretend like nothing happened when I return.



I hope we all get to see that. By the way, I do believe you will admit you were wrong if Trump wins. But you will be saying all the bitter things we did when Obama won. And the world didn't end, life moved on, those hard working motivated people continue to succeed because they always will. And those who thought Obama would make their life better are still looking for more handouts and being played for victims.
MichaelBluejay
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May 26th, 2016 at 8:03:13 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Racism is a charge most often leveled when an opponent has nothing intelligent to offer and wants to deflect the situation.

And *that's* a charge that's leveled when the speaker wants to justify racism.
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
ams288
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May 26th, 2016 at 8:27:05 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

I hope we all get to see that. By the way, I do believe you will admit you were wrong if Trump wins.



Oh absolutely!

I'm not gonna pull an EB and keep my head in the sand all election season. If the polls/markets/common sense in Sept/Oct point to a Trump win, I'm not gonna pretend he's gonna lose.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
TigerWu
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May 26th, 2016 at 9:42:34 AM permalink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton%27s_tenure_as_Secretary_of_State

You can see if there's anything here that makes her worthwhile.
RonC
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May 26th, 2016 at 10:53:24 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

And *that's* a charge that's leveled when the speaker wants to justify racism.



Do you ever feel that the term "racism" is invoked when it should not be?
rxwine
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May 26th, 2016 at 12:21:03 PM permalink
When you're suppose to be the guy credited for "telling it how it is" and speaking your mind, it really counts for little when you apparently have so many distortions and exaggerations.




Quote:

WASHINGTON — As Donald Trump makes his bid for the White House, he’s also talked up his new hotel opening this fall on Pennsylvania Avenue in the District of Columbia, bragging that the hotel will open its doors two years ahead of schedule.

The accelerated schedule has been picked up by several outlets. It’s standard bravado from the presumptive Republican nominee, meant to add to the mythology that he is a successful executive who can get things done efficiently when his business record actually includes a number of failures.

But Trump’s boasts about his hotel opening ahead of schedule simply aren’t true.

A June 2013 press release posted on the Trump Organization’s website announced that the redevelopment of the old post office was “expected to start in 2014 with the hotel opening scheduled in 2016.” A few months later, the Trump Organization announced the expected grand opening of the hotel would happen at the end of 2015. The Trump Organization said in a third statement in 2013 the hotel had completion was expected in late 2015.

In 2014, the Trump Organization went back to announcing the hotel would open in mid-2016. In February, in the midst of Trump’s presidential campaign, the organization shifted and announced the hotel was planned to open in September, “almost two years ahead of schedule, which is unheard of for a project of this size and complexity,” Ivanka Trump is quoted as saying.

And during a March visit to the site, Donald Trump said, “We’re two years ahead of schedule. We’re going to be opening in September.”



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-dc-hotel_us_574716bee4b0dacf7ad4213a
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AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:13:46 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux



I'm looking at Bernie +300 in Cali. If he gets that debate with Trump, what a coup. A high profile, high ratings event, with Hillary sitting on the sidelines. There might be some demographic barriers though. There are a lot of limo liberals too, which is all Hillary.



That is an awesome smart move on the part of Trump, GOP primary is meaningless and the Dem one de facto so. But he does a few things. He gets to possibly influence some Bernie #neverhillary types. Maybe not a lot, but if it becomes an anti-hillary party who knows. It gives them both more outsider appeal. And it freezes Hillary out, for which she would throw a hissy-fit.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
MichaelBluejay
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:13:54 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

Do you ever feel that the term "racism" is invoked when it should not be?

Absolutely, it cuts both ways. Extremists claim that *any* criticism of Obama is racism, which of course is preposterous. That would essentially mean that it would never be possible to criticize him for anything. But at the same time, right-wingers routinely spout all kinds of truly racist and sexist things but then scream "P.C.! P.C.!" when anyone calls them on it. And I've certainly seen a lot more of the latter than the former.

It's hard to tease out how much of the ridiculous charges against Obama (born in Kenya, socialist, Muslim) is because he's black and how much is simply because he's a Democrat. Which is a shame, because he's certainly worthy of scrutiny for *actual* policy decisions, but instead there's a focus on these fantasy traits that don't actually exist.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:21:07 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

And *that's* a charge that's leveled when the speaker wants to justify racism.



Nope, just someone who is tired of people with the mentality of children make the charge anytime they can because they want attention. They find racism in the most simple things so they can make a fuss, hoping some weak-willed person in charge listens to them.

I have heard of blacks claiming racism where there was not to get away with bad behavior since I was a kid. A few tried it with me when I was in management. When you refuse to play their little games they really go nuts.

There are more important things in life. Many more.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:28:41 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Nope, just someone who is tired of people with the mentality of children make the charge anytime they can because they want attention.

Okay, then give some examples where right-wingers actually made racist statements.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 3:45:20 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Okay, then give some examples where right-wingers actually made racist statements.



"I'll have them niggers voting Democrat for 100 years!"

Wait, that was LBJ!

There was that KKK leader from WV who was in the Senate forever.

Wait, he was a liberal.

There was that filibuster of the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s.

Damn. that was Democrats also.

I have to go and eat, I'll get back to you when I actually care.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Boz
Boz
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May 26th, 2016 at 4:36:36 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

Do you ever feel that the term "racism" is invoked when it should not be?



Didn't ask me, but the answer is NO, it is in the the Hippy handbook to use anytime you don't have an answer right behind "I was stoned", "There are no jobs man" & "Free Mumia".
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
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May 26th, 2016 at 6:07:42 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Okay, then give some examples where right-wingers actually made racist statements.

Quote: AZDuffman

[gives no examples and then says:] I have to go and eat, I'll get back to you when I actually care.

As I suspected. In your world, Republicans are never racist, to the point that you can't give even one example of them being so. And when anyone who points out actual racism on the part of right-wingers it makes you "tired of people with the mentality of children make the charge anytime they can because they want attention. They find racism in the most simple things so they can make a fuss, hoping some weak-willed person in charge listens to them."
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Boz
Boz
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May 26th, 2016 at 6:18:54 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: AZDuffman

[gives no examples and then says:] I have to go and eat, I'll get back to you when I actually care.

As I suspected. In your world, Republicans are never racist, to the point that you can't give even one example of them being so. And when anyone who points out actual racism on the part of right-wingers it makes you "tired of people with the mentality of children make the charge anytime they can because they want attention. They find racism in the most simple things so they can make a fuss, hoping some weak-willed person in charge listens to them."



Just like liberals never are involved in violent protests. Your people were a disgrace in NM the other night.

PS, love the quotes. Like Tom Bodett, I'll leave a light on for you.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 6:35:46 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: AZDuffman

[gives no examples and then says:] I have to go and eat, I'll get back to you when I actually care.

As I suspected. In your world, Republicans are never racist, to the point that you can't give even one example of them being so. And when anyone who points out actual racism on the part of right-wingers it makes you "tired of people with the mentality of children make the charge anytime they can because they want attention. They find racism in the most simple things so they can make a fuss, hoping some weak-willed person in charge listens to them."



Liberals claim it is racist to demand we enforce the borders of the USA for crying out loud.

Maybe my point was not direct enough. I have heard so many silly charges of racism in my life I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK IS RACIST. 99% of the charges are basically bogus. I am not going to point out examples because I DO NOT CARE.

Lefties will find something to call racist no matter what, I would wager there are lefties who will call it racist that you like vanilla ice cream better than chocolate. Or hate pool because the white ball controls the table and the black ball is ignored until the end. They are waiting to be offended. I have no time for that.

Maybe you should discuss it in a safe space where people who love to cry racism will discuss it with you.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
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May 26th, 2016 at 6:49:42 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Your people were a disgrace in NM the other night.

Not my people, especially as I disavowed them. I was telling my son just yesterday that they shouldn't be protesting, because Trump is the will of the Republican voters, and that they should register their disapproval at the ballot box. See, that's the difference between me and AZDuffman (and you, I suspect): I'm not partisan and don't hesitate to call the left out on their bad actions. But in AZDuffman's world, all liberals are bad and all conservatives never make a mistake. He won't disavow conservatives' bad actions, because in his mind, they never do anything wrong, only liberals do that.

Quote: AZDuffman

I am not going to point out examples because I DO NOT CARE.

Thank you for proving my point.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 26th, 2016 at 6:56:47 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay



Thank you for proving my point.



Happy to help you out.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
ams288
ams288
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May 26th, 2016 at 7:11:27 PM permalink
Denying racism is a form of racism.


My favorite is when racists whine about being called out for being racists (usually the phrase "political correctness" will appear in their rant) and then whine about "reverse discrimination."

99% of reverse discrimination is just racists upset that their racism isn't acceptable anymore.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
MathExtremist
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May 26th, 2016 at 8:43:56 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

You cannot test for what global temperature was even 250 years ago, either. But you believe in global warming.

Perhaps you are unaware that the climate involves more than temperature, or that climate change involves more than temperature change, and specifically includes atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane. You are clearly unaware that glaciology has already tested what carbon dioxide and methane levels were 250 years ago, but you shouldn't be -- I posted several links earlier that you should have been able to read and comprehend.

My "belief" in climate change is not equivalent to your belief in intelligent design. My belief is not based on untestable faith but testable evidence. I believe that the climate has changed because the evidence shows that it has. You believe it hasn't despite what the evidence shows, because your faith somehow leads you to conclude the evidence should be rejected.

Quote:

The point of intelligent design is that it has to be taken on faith that there is a force greater than humanity. ...
Days of this discussion and your religious beliefs still prevent you from seeing the point of intelligent design. It does not matter what you call the greater being, it matters that the force can be there. You do not get to test it. It is greater than you are or will ever be,

You are ignorant of my faith and I have not discussed it here, but it is beside the point. And that's actually the point in and of itself. Faith is orthogonal to science, it is not a replacement for it. At the same time, science is not a replacement for faith and isn't trying to be (except maybe in the view of atheists, but that's just as invalid as your attempt to disprove science with religion). Science is about answering how and why things happen in the natural world, not their greater purpose in any supernatural, religious sense. Science is not attempting to disprove your belief that there are forces in the universe greater than humanity. There are *lots* of forces greater than humanity. Some of them are testable and some, like many religious tenets, are not.

But you're corrupting religion when you try to cram it into a scientific theory. You admit that religion is untestable, and I agree, but science is only concerned with the testable. Because intelligent design requires untestable faith, it is not a scientific theory and cannot be compared to one. It's entirely possible that the hand of God (or the FSM's Noodly Appendage) was guiding evolution, but such intelligent design is not required to explain evolution. I've already described why it's important not to subject God (or the FSM) to testability and disprovability. I still don't think you understand why that's true, but as before, the decline of Apollo should serve as a warning.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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May 26th, 2016 at 10:40:22 PM permalink
I just figured out why Trump is running for president. It's not because he wants to be president, it's for what happens afterwards. What is the one defining trait of Trump's real estate developments?




But he had to build all of those buildings to get his name on them. Ex-presidents get their names on lots of buildings for free:




I'm pretty sure being an ex-president is the least expensive way to accomplish the goal of having the Trump name on as many buildings as possible. Paying for naming rights on a building-by-building basis doesn't scale the way paying for a winning presidential campaign does...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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May 26th, 2016 at 11:07:55 PM permalink
Liberals even think it's racist for some guy to come into your work and call you a ngger, and for your boss, who believes blacks are inherently lazy, to kick you out of your work station on the basis of your race to appease that guy.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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May 27th, 2016 at 1:09:48 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Liberals even think it's racist for some guy to come into your work and call you a ngger, and for your boss, who believes blacks are inherently lazy, to kick you out of your work station on the basis of your race to appease that guy.




I...what? ...speechless.

Just stop it, guys, please. Good grief.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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May 27th, 2016 at 2:09:31 AM permalink
In reference to the arguments here, that being treated like a piece of garbage in your workplace because of your race isn't racism, or at least worth being bothered by.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/25836-trump-and-the-racist-high-roller/

Trump is quoted earlier in this thread as saying blacks are inherently lazy.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 27th, 2016 at 3:03:55 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Denying racism is a form of racism.

.................................................

99% of reverse discrimination is just racists upset that their racism isn't acceptable anymore.



In one breath says to deny racism is racism then denies that racism can exist except against the "right" people.

And some of you peeps wonder why I do not care about charges of "racism?"
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
ams288
ams288
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May 27th, 2016 at 4:03:42 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

And some of you peeps wonder why I do not care about charges of "racism?"



Because it's much easier for you to pretend it doesn't exist than actually address it.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
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