2016 Election -- Part II

Well I can see who you are voting for lol

However, that's the real problem I have. I cannot truly believe that nowadays there are still people that are on board with either parties agenda fully.
For instance I can't in my heart believe that trump is not in favor of abortion,
I have been at lunches back in the day with him. Most of his views then were much more moderate, especially if you are a Howard stern fan and remember his dozens of phone calls to the show.
Hillary seems extremely unlikable to me. (The way she dresses bothers me- side note)
I don't consider myself a dem or rep. I view it more of a realist . Some of trumps views bother me/ some of hillarys. I think trump has some extreme views, but I also think that he does care about the country . I can't say I support republicans because although I am not against guns fully, I can for one second fathom why anyone needs let's say more then 10. Or semi automatic assault weapons.

Trump isn't a real Republican anyway, and the GOP knows it. He gave to Hillary's campaign 8 years ago, something that would be political suicide for a less Teflon, more rank-and-file Republican. The only reason any of the party stalwarts are rallying behind him is they perceive an opening to beat Hillary. If the Democratic candidate were stronger, the GOP would throw in the towel, put up some sacrificial lamb, and treat this as a rebuilding year. But there is rightly the perception of weakness in Hillary's candidacy so here we are.

Trump seems like he's on a roll right now, but I expect his momentum to wane in the next three months. Hillary has been under the microscope for a while now and, it seems to me, most of her dirty laundry has been aired already. Trump's hasn't come close, and I think once all his shady dealing in the past comes to light, many of his fanboys will realize his true colors. For one, he's mobbed up:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910

Quote: RonC

What are you looking for in a candidate? Do her positions fit what you are looking for better than her opponent's? You can make arguments for her getting your vote based on experience, her positions, etc., but first it helps to know what you want in a candidate.

Best reply to a question I've seen on this forum in quite a while.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I may break this off to a new thread if it gets a few more replies, but I think the most important part of voting is to know what the party intends to do if they get in office. And then vote for what's important to you. Because the candidates are each only one person, and they take their positions from the party platform.

Another way to see this election is on a referendum on the DNC position that we should have no choice, other than neoliberalism, mass incarceration, perpetual war, etc. Someone who is worth $100 million from legalized bribery and who knowingly votes for unjust wars isn't acceptable. If you want my vote, do better. The Dems as a right wing party that is socially liberal on some issues, should fail, imo.

I hope Trump wins. Won't vote for him, as I think strategic voting is foolish. I always vote for a candidate I genuinely like, or with whom I agree on many major issues. So, on the question of who to vote for, I think the answer should always be, "the candidate who best represents your positions."

Quote: Rigondeaux

Another way to see this election is on a referendum on the DNC position that we should have no choice, other than neoliberalism, mass incarceration, perpetual war, etc. "...

Rig... I appreciate you weighing in, but I don't understand what you said here. I don't know what the term neoliberalism means (new dog whistle maybe)? Mass incarceration and the private prison system (worth 10s of billions to the contractors) is largely Republican legislation and lobbying. Perpetual war is Republican Hawks and the defense industry, also mostly Republican controlled. So how are you throwing that stuff at the Dems?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Rig... I appreciate you weighing in, but I don't understand what you said here. I don't know what the term neoliberalism means (new dog whistle maybe)? Mass incarceration and the private prison system (worth 10s of billions to the contractors) is largely Republican legislation and lobbying. Perpetual war is Republican Hawks and the defense industry, also mostly Republican controlled. So how are you throwing that stuff at the Dems?

Many of them, including Hillary, voted for the Iraq war, knowing (assuming they had access to as much or more information than I did, as a college kid with an internet connection), that it was being justified on false pretenses. I don't see how someone can knowingly vote for unjust wars, and not be considered a hawk. She's buddy buddy with Kissinger. She has not called for reduced military spending.

"As Secretary of State, Clinton backed a bold escalation of the Afghanistan war. She pressed Obama to arm the Syrian rebels, and later endorsed air strikes against the Assad regime. She backed intervention in Libya, and her State Department helped enable Obama’s expansion of lethal drone strikes. In fact, Clinton may have been the administration’s most reliable advocate for military action. On at least three crucial issues—Afghanistan, Libya, and the bin Laden raid—Clinton took a more aggressive line than Gates, a Bush-appointed Republican."

"Former administration officials also tell TIME that Clinton was an advocate for maintaining a residual troop force after the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq—an issue of renewed interest given al Qaeda’s resurgence there. They also describe her as skeptical of diplomacy with Iran, and firmly opposed to talk of a “containment” policy that would be an alternative to military action should negotiations with Tehran fail."
http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/14/hillary-clintons-unapologetically-hawkish-record-faces-2016-test/

Hillary has taken a great deal of money from private prison companies. She only recently stopped accepting these bribes after being called out on it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-will-ban-private-prisons_b_9297568.html

She does not support marijuana legalization. She, along with BIll, has generally been a proponent of the drug war and mass incarceration. She voted for the death penalty for drug dealers. Perhaps I'm a pie in the sky idealist, but I don't think it's too much to ask that the "liberal" candidate opposes the government paying corporations to cage people with substance abuse issues or, shit, even people who use drugs for fun.

There are even some important issues where Trump is far better than Hillary, like TPP. He is a massive jerk, but oh well.

The continuing Trump paradox

Quote:

The Trump International Hotel in Ireland applied for a permit to build a seawall on its golf course to prevent erosion. Politico reports the permit application included an environmental impact statement that explicitly said the wall would need to be built to combat “global warming and its effects.” The golf course is located at Trump International Golf Links & Hotel Ireland, in County Clare.

http://time.com/4345367/donald-trump-climate-change-golf-course/

Trump's achiellies heal might be his Tax returns. Even more so than Clinton's emails and paid speeches. Every presidential candidate for the last 50 years+ has released theirs when nominated. I think there is something hiding in them.

Clinton's email and paid speeches bother me immensely, but she is no where near the first high level politician to do those things. Not that it's an excuse.

Quote: gamerfreak

Trump's achiellies heal might be his Tax returns.

I think the type of person to vote for Trump wouldn't care.

Ding, ding, ding......
The Wizard speaks.
I will prolly vote for Trump, whether or not I see his tax returns before November.