Arrested for playing on someones players card
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: billryanI suppose when one makes $20,000 a week, one must put up with the minor inconveniences.
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Exactly. DarkOz has found a lucrative career, but it is not all roses. Some of it is the thorns attached. My career had 24 hour shifts. Not as bad as being backroomed, but it sucked.
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I began writing my memoir when I started making the big money.
Then after my first backroom experience and subsequent loss of offers I complained woe is me to my daughter.
She replied (paraphrasing), "Dad, you have some exciting stuff for your memoirs now. Discussing how you win all the time would be boring to read. Day, fifty-three, won another ten gees. Day fifty-four, won another six gees. Each bad experience in your AP career is just another chapter in your book."
Winning all the time is great but makes for boring tales.
If you read any long threads about winning all the time you will know what I mean
Quote: VegasriderPlayers cards are the property of the casinos, even if it has your name on it.
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When you rent a car it remains the property of the car rental agency but it's in your name.
Not a crime to let someone drive it.
On the other hand, I know a person who inadvertently received $10k loaded onto his players card account. He was redeeming them for free play. Problem was he could only redeem $500 per day. After a week, the casino must have figured out the mistake and it was gone. But he never got in trouble, but I'm guessing he could have. He tried flying under the radar as muchbas possible, always redeeming his free play using the kiosk.
Quote: darkozQuote: VegasriderPlayers cards are the property of the casinos, even if it has your name on it.
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When you rent a car it remains the property of the car rental agency but it's in your name.
Not a crime to let someone drive it.
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Letting an unauthorized driver use a rental cars opens you up to all sorts of problems. I'm not sure it is illegal but it certainly opens you to all sorts of civil penalties.
Quote: VegasriderIt is a crime or violation of the rules if the promotions are used improperly.
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Quote clipped for relevance. Those are two very different things separated by an “or”. One is a crime. One is not a crime.
Quote: VegasriderIt is a crime or violation of the rules if the promotions are used improperly. Arresting someone is a bit extreme. Banning the player or players involved and forfeiting any points accumulated would have been more appropriate.
On the other hand, I know a person who inadvertently received $10k loaded onto his players card account. He was redeeming them for free play. Problem was he could only redeem $500 per day. After a week, the casino must have figured out the mistake and it was gone. But he never got in trouble, but I'm guessing he could have. He tried flying under the radar as muchbas possible, always redeeming his free play using the kiosk.
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Violation of the rules yes.
Crime no.
Why do people think casinos make laws?
I will say this - if there is going to be something done about this, the biggest offenders will end up being the targets. Whom do they go after with the largest and most organized enforcement actions? Pablo Escobar, and El Chapo, or the nameless faceless anonymous nickel bag dealer.
This case sounds so extreme. Search warrant? Confiscate items? Arrest?
I know reservations have their own rules, but this one sounded pretty ridiculous.
Quote: VegasriderI used the word crime since their was an arrest. When you are dealing with the Indians on tribal land, its a new set of rules, laws, and who knows what else that most people are not aware of. You just don't mess with the Indians.
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Let's exclude Indian casinos.
They are sovereign nation. You forfeit some of your civil rights going to those.
I would not hit Mohegan Sun in Connecticut but I have hit Mohegan Sun in Poconos or Atlantic City (Resorts).
The difference? The other two aren't on sovereign land and must abide by US Law! Regardless of ownership.
Quote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
I hate you, you got there first. ROFLMAOQuote: mcallister3200Yeah....let’s leave the car rental analogies to people with drivers licenses ;)
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That's your experiences with all this. You can't possibly know all the other situations that have come up.Quote: darkozQuote: AxelWolfIn other states people have been arrested for using other peoples cards with that person's permission and had significant legal bills. I don't know if anyone has ever been prosecuted. From what I know it's always been settled, dropped, or pleased down.Quote: AlanMendelsonWe've had this debate before.
To the best of my knowledge all casinos say player club cards cannot be used by others.
And to the best of my knowledge I dont know of any law saying using another's casino card is a crime.
This can easily be resolved. If you believe it's a crime cite the law.
I remember checking the Nevada Gaming Regulations and I found nothing about using someone else's card to be a crime or even a violation.
Again, casinos can have their own club rules.
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I haven't been in every state but I know Pennsylvania was a state of contention at one point.
A group of people were arrested and charged with using other people's cards. This came PRIOR to my own backroom at a Pennsylvania casino and once I proved I had the players permission was released same day with no arrest.
The people who did get arrested in the Pennsylvania case either were doing something different (uploading freeplay from employees or stealing pins) or didn't have the support of the players(that is the people whose cards they used didn't admit to giving permission to use the cards).
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Fortunately for me, I have been savvy enough to avoid such problems myself.
Yes that's wrong. And for the record I do not disagree with anything you are saying when it comes to the actual laws and what the truth is. But, the fact remains (you can even ask Bob N.) Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean you won't have legal issues and you won't have to pay out the ass to prove your case.Quote: darkozQuote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
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Quote: billryanAttempted possession of marijuana is not illegal in NYC but the NYPD has arrested thousands, if not tens of thousands for it.
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You are about a year late.
Marijuana is legal in NYS.
And not even certain what that has to do with casino cards. I never "attempt" to use them. When backroomed I usually just hand the cards over. They usually already have them flagged by that point.
Quote: AxelWolfYes that's wrong. And for the record I do not disagree with anything you are saying when it comes to the actual laws and what the truth is. But, the fact remains (you can even ask Bob N.) Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean you won't have legal issues and you won't have to pay out the ass to prove your case.Quote: darkozQuote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
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You have convinced me.
I'm handing everyone back their players cards over the weekend.
Searching online for a job now. Lots of 9-5 jobs available after the pandemic.
Maybe I will go for usher in a movie theater. I can watch free films as a sort of AP maneuver.
Quote: darkozMaybe I will go for usher in a movie theater. I can watch free films as a sort of AP maneuver.
Become a brassiere fitter at Macy's.
Heck, if you're gonna reinvent yourself GO BIG.
Besides, if casinos saw it as enough of a problem, then they could simply require physical ID for the loading of any Free Play. It would be a serious pain and would really slow things down, but they could do it, or require it if it is a large enough amount.
Quote: Mission146Yeah, but they also say that free play and comps have no cash value...at least in any materials I have read. That leads me to the question: How do you charge someone with the left of something that is declared to have no value when the perpetrator isn't even committing theft because they were given permission to take the valueless thing?
Besides, if casinos saw it as enough of a problem, then they could simply require physical ID for the loading of any Free Play. It would be a serious pain and would really slow things down, but they could do it, or require it if it is a large enough amount.
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And one casino actually did do that!!!
I hit them harder than the other casinos!!!
I sent in people who were local to pick up their own offers.
Yes, no one broke any rules and I hit that casino for six years. YEARS!!!
Until they finally caught on. You know what they told all my people? They committed fraud because they used their OWN cards to collect freeplay without gambling.
I have absolutely no mercy for casinos and no qualms about following or not following their rules
Quote: VegasriderIf you found a voucher or money in the machine, its considered casino property even though its abandoned or lost. At least here in Nevada. You could get in trouble if you kept it or played it. Have I found money in tbe machine or a voucher on the floor? All the time, but I always turn it into the slot attendant or security. I believe the back of the players card states its the property of the casino. If there are any legal issues, that could be used against that said individual.
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Mission says it. The offers have no cash value.
However more importantly, the offers are meant for the players named. Let's take your abandoned or lost vouchers example.
You pocket a voucher left in a machine. Security surrounds you and says someone left that and they know it's not you.
AND THEN the person who left the voucher comes up and says they told you to print it from the slot machine because they were in a rush and the person who's money it belongs to wants to know why the casino claims it isn't theirs?
What do you think is going to happen in court?
Remember, I always use the players cards with permission of the players!!!!
Quote: darkozQuote: VegasriderIf you found a voucher or money in the machine, its considered casino property even though its abandoned or lost. At least here in Nevada. You could get in trouble if you kept it or played it. Have I found money in tbe machine or a voucher on the floor? All the time, but I always turn it into the slot attendant or security. I believe the back of the players card states its the property of the casino. If there are any legal issues, that could be used against that said individual.
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Mission says it. The offers have no cash value.
Your scenario on somebody coming back saying for me to print the voucher because they were in a hurry? LOL? Don't forget surveillance, they can back track every step you take from the second you arrive on their property. Casinos are probably one of the worst places to commit a crime or do something wrong because of all the cameras.
However more importantly, the offers are meant for the players named. Let's take your abandoned or lost vouchers example.
You pocket a voucher left in a machine. Security surrounds you and says someone left that and they know it's not you.
AND THEN the person who left the voucher comes up and says they told you to print it from the slot machine because they were in a rush and the person who's money it belongs to wants to know why the casino claims it isn't theirs?
What do you think is going to happen in court?
Remember, I always use the players cards with permission of the players!!!!
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Quote: darkozQuote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
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Deliberate or not, that's either a misquote or a misread. I did not say that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name" as his clipped quotation implies - I said that continuing with the DarkOz misuse of rental car analogy (driving a rental car without being on the contract), the corollary would be that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name."
If he's going to propose these mismatched metaphors or similes then he needs to carry them to their logical conclusion. Or realize that his analogies are misplaced - that driving a rental car with permission while not on the contract is not the same as what he is doing.
In any case, he misquoted me by making it seem like I meant something I did not.
Quote: MDawgQuote: darkozQuote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
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Deliberate or not, that's either a misquote or a misread. I did not say that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name" as his clipped quotation implies - I said that continuing with the DarkOz misuse of rental car analogy (driving a rental car without being on the contract), the corollary would be that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name."
If he's going to propose these mismatched metaphors or similes then he needs to carry them to their logical conclusion. Or realize that his analogies are misplaced - that driving a rental car with permission while not on the contract is not the same as what he is doing.
In any case, he misquoted me by making it seem like I meant something I did not.
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Ahhh, that was a misread.
Axel misread it also because he agreed with me a post or two later.
I thought you were saying a car lent out would result in the user being in the hook and that IS the same situation with players cards.
That's why I singled out that part of the quote.
I did add dots to show there was more to the quote.
Sorry I misunderstood.
Quote: VegasriderTheoritcally, a player redeeming free play in form of promotional chips, then giving the chips to another individual to play on behalf of them would be the same scenario, except its in the form of a slot or VP machine?
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Yes.
Or even a player getting a free toaster and giving it to someone else in the parking lot.
Or redeeming a free hotel stay and then letting someone else stay in the room.
I don't think I missread anything. I was just pointing out that I didn't disagree on your views regarding this stuff. I don't think there's one simple answer that fits all jurisdictions and situations.Quote: darkozQuote: MDawgQuote: darkozQuote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
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Deliberate or not, that's either a misquote or a misread. I did not say that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name" as his clipped quotation implies - I said that continuing with the DarkOz misuse of rental car analogy (driving a rental car without being on the contract), the corollary would be that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name."
If he's going to propose these mismatched metaphors or similes then he needs to carry them to their logical conclusion. Or realize that his analogies are misplaced - that driving a rental car with permission while not on the contract is not the same as what he is doing.
In any case, he misquoted me by making it seem like I meant something I did not.
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Ahhh, that was a misread.
Axel misread it also because he agreed with me a post or two later.
I thought you were saying a car lent out would result in the user being in the hook and that IS the same situation with players cards.
That's why I singled out that part of the quote.
I did add dots to show there was more to the quote.
Sorry I misunderstood.
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Quote: darkoz
Axel misread it also because he agreed with me a post or two later.
I thought you were saying a car lent out would result in the user being in the hook and that IS the same situation with players cards.
That's why I singled out that part of the quote.
I did add dots to show there was more to the quote.
Sorry I misunderstood.
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No problem.
As far as AxelWolf...he has stated that he reads only 20% of what I post, and perhaps this applies to everything on the forum, so...no wonder.
Quote: MDawgIn any case, he misquoted me by making it seem like I meant something I did not.
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Quote: darkoz
Ahhh, that was a misread.
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In light of the acknowledgement and apology, can I consider this resolved?
Quote: DieterQuote: MDawgIn any case, he misquoted me by making it seem like I meant something I did not.
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Ahhh, that was a misread.
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In light of the acknowledgement and apology, can I consider this resolved?
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I'm good!!!
Quote: billryanIf I give someone a toaster they are free to give it to whomever they want. If I offer a toaster to person A as a reward for something and person B shows up and takes the toaster claiming to be person A, that is something different.
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Right!
The only difference is you didn't get to smile at the person you wanted too.
End result is the same!
I got the toaster meant for the other guy. Handed directly to him and he gives it to me or he handse his card and I pick.it up.
De facto, his giving me his pin and card is just another way of his picking up the toaster and handing it to me!
Quote: MDawgNo problem.
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Quote: darkozQuote: VegasriderTheoritcally, a player redeeming free play in form of promotional chips, then giving the chips to another individual to play on behalf of them would be the same scenario, except its in the form of a slot or VP machine?
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Yes.
Or even a player getting a free toaster and giving it to someone else in the parking lot.
Or redeeming a free hotel stay and then letting someone else stay in the room.
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I've done that. Check in on behalf of a friend to use the room and most of the free giveaways, I will redeem it and give it away to the employees of the casino.
But the big difference is I have personally claimed the promotion then have given it away. Using someones players card to redeem the promo on behalf of someone else is totally different.
Quote: VegasriderQuote: darkozQuote: VegasriderTheoritcally, a player redeeming free play in form of promotional chips, then giving the chips to another individual to play on behalf of them would be the same scenario, except its in the form of a slot or VP machine?
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Yes.
Or even a player getting a free toaster and giving it to someone else in the parking lot.
Or redeeming a free hotel stay and then letting someone else stay in the room.
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I've done that. Check in on behalf of a friend to use the room and most of the free giveaways, I will redeem it and give it away to the employees of the casino.
But the big difference is I have personally claimed the promotion then have given it away. Using someones players card to redeem the promo on behalf of someone else is totally different.
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Not legally.
People can "feel" it's different all they want.
My only concern is the law and it's not different.
The law does not address any difference (for use with players permission) between who picks up any given item or uses a players card.
I also thought that’s what MDawg meantQuote: darkozQuote: MDawgQuote: darkozQuote: MDawg.. the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name.
Wrong!
Already had a casino try that.
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Deliberate or not, that's either a misquote or a misread. I did not say that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name" as his clipped quotation implies - I said that continuing with the DarkOz misuse of rental car analogy (driving a rental car without being on the contract), the corollary would be that "the person who misuses thousands of player cards would be on the hook to pay back every penny earned not in his name."
If he's going to propose these mismatched metaphors or similes then he needs to carry them to their logical conclusion. Or realize that his analogies are misplaced - that driving a rental car with permission while not on the contract is not the same as what he is doing.
In any case, he misquoted me by making it seem like I meant something I did not.
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Ahhh, that was a misread.
Axel misread it also because he agreed with me a post or two later.
I thought you were saying a car lent out would result in the user being in the hook and that IS the same situation with players cards.
That's why I singled out that part of the quote.
I did add dots to show there was more to the quote.
Sorry I misunderstood.
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Quote: darkozQuote: VegasriderQuote: darkozQuote: VegasriderTheoritcally, a player redeeming free play in form of promotional chips, then giving the chips to another individual to play on behalf of them would be the same scenario, except its in the form of a slot or VP machine?
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Yes.
Or even a player getting a free toaster and giving it to someone else in the parking lot.
Or redeeming a free hotel stay and then letting someone else stay in the room.
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I've done that. Check in on behalf of a friend to use the room and most of the free giveaways, I will redeem it and give it away to the employees of the casino.
But the big difference is I have personally claimed the promotion then have given it away. Using someones players card to redeem the promo on behalf of someone else is totally different.
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Not legally.
People can "feel" it's different all they want.
My only concern is the law and it's not different.
The law does not address any difference (for use with players permission) between who picks up any given item or uses a players card.
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You keep saying "the law" as if there is some Universal law that applies in every casino everywhere. "The law" doesn't work like that. There are at least 50 different state jurisdictions and I imagine some municipalities that can establish laws affecting this. What the law is today is not always what the law is tomorrow.
Quote: billryanQuote: darkozQuote: VegasriderQuote: darkozQuote: VegasriderTheoritcally, a player redeeming free play in form of promotional chips, then giving the chips to another individual to play on behalf of them would be the same scenario, except its in the form of a slot or VP machine?
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Yes.
Or even a player getting a free toaster and giving it to someone else in the parking lot.
Or redeeming a free hotel stay and then letting someone else stay in the room.
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I've done that. Check in on behalf of a friend to use the room and most of the free giveaways, I will redeem it and give it away to the employees of the casino.
But the big difference is I have personally claimed the promotion then have given it away. Using someones players card to redeem the promo on behalf of someone else is totally different.
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Not legally.
People can "feel" it's different all they want.
My only concern is the law and it's not different.
The law does not address any difference (for use with players permission) between who picks up any given item or uses a players card.
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You keep saying "the law" as if there is some Universal law that applies in every casino everywhere. "The law" doesn't work like that. There are at least 50 different state jurisdictions and I imagine some municipalities that can establish laws affecting this. What the law is today is not always what the law is tomorrow.
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And as noted not one person has been convicted anywhere in the US for using another person players card WITH their permission.
And no one has yet to point to any law against it.
Lots of maybes, no evidence.
As for tomorrow's laws, I will worry about that "tomorrow".
Quote: mcallister3200Stop being intentionally obtuse you KNOW I’m referring to the players card issue when I say “it’s” and “for that.”
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Note: Emphasis mine.
Please be warned to keep things friendly.
You can see the warden in Shawshank Redemption didn't take well be being called obtuse.
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7wREOySaxU
Quote: WizardQuote: mcallister3200Stop being intentionally obtuse you KNOW I’m referring to the players card issue when I say “it’s” and “for that.”
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Note: Emphasis mine.
Please be warned to keep things friendly.
You can see the warden in Shawshank Redemption didn't take well be being called obtuse.
Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7wREOySaxU
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Fair, thank you for the reminder. I love that movie, used to watch it any time it was on tv. IIRC, the warden also did not enjoy it when his fraud was exposed.
Quote: SandybestdogI think your problem was the 28 cards. Casinos would have been fine with 27 but that extra one was one too many.
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Nice humor.
I have had my crew stopped for using just two players cards.
Since there is a zero policy it makes no difference if I get caught with two or twenty or one hundred.
It's all legal either way.
