SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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December 18th, 2015 at 5:46:55 PM permalink
Quote: qwertyoc

This casino does not make you sign anything or read any rules about a players club card before issuing it.

They don't have to do that. Each one of the five cards in my wallet says use of it means that you agree to their terms. Just like EULA's on computers and the Internet.
Quote: qwertyoc

On the Casino's website under casino rules, in regards to playing on other peoples cards states: "Use of another person's player's club card is not permitted for any reason." but then in regards to cashing out tickets (unrelated to this case) says "Using or cashing out another patron's machine credits/tickets without that patron's permission may result in a permanent ban and/or arrest and prosecution." Why wouldn't they have said use of another persons card was subject to these same things unless they knew they have no right to do so regarding playing on another persons players club card?

Because they DO have "that right." If you post a link or copy of the rules here, that can be shown.
LuckyCharms711
LuckyCharms711
Joined: Nov 10, 2015
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December 18th, 2015 at 5:49:18 PM permalink
GWAE: Ignorance has never been a viable excuse to break the law or even just rules. If you say you didn't know the speed limit the cop will still give you a ticket. It's you're responsibility to know. Likewise, if a rule states "must wear proper attire" but you show up in something else, you still don't get to go into the venue. Despite not knowing what to wear. Again, it was your responsibility to find out.
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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December 18th, 2015 at 7:34:45 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyCharms711

GWAE: Ignorance has never been a viable excuse to break the law or even just rules. If you say you didn't know the speed limit the cop will still give you a ticket. It's you're responsibility to know. Likewise, if a rule states "must wear proper attire" but you show up in something else, you still don't get to go into the venue. Despite not knowing what to wear. Again, it was your responsibility to find out.



I guess that is all true.

I guess the million dollar question is whether or not it is actually illegal or just breaking the rules.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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December 18th, 2015 at 10:11:48 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

... Haven't you gotten yet that the casino considers all winners by skill (even progressive bonus hunters) to be thieves?


Interestingly, the casino where may partner and I get our field trials suggest and endorse publicly supplying the player's strategy, even on the rack cards, so that the new games can be played well and properly (skillfully) by the patrons. We agree, because our games should be played well and properly by all participants. Players may use skill in setting their hands, and dealers use skill in properly dealing the house way. Never had a problem for setting a hand well in Pai Gow Poker or making the correct holds in Jacks or Better. The fact that something's a skill is irrelevant, it's that it's allowed or disallowed.

Some Casinos even sell strategy cards in their gift shops. Was never considered a thief for these skills.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
muleyvoice
muleyvoice
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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December 21st, 2015 at 7:56:22 AM permalink
So if a casino gift shops sells a book on counting, then it would be ok too ???
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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December 21st, 2015 at 9:10:25 AM permalink
Quote: muleyvoice

So if a casino gift shops sells a book on counting, then it would be ok too ???

Interesting. If you know a casino that does this, it would really destroy all of Dan's arguments about it being against the house rules.

Not that his arguments are good in the first place.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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December 21st, 2015 at 9:28:35 AM permalink
Granted this is all true and no info is being left out, I feel like this is something that would only happen at a Tribal Casino.

Getting arrested and having your car seized/searched over a players club card is the civil rights equivalent of getting taken to the back and roughed up.
ukaserex
ukaserex
Joined: Jul 12, 2015
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December 21st, 2015 at 11:00:21 AM permalink
My opinion is this: I can't see/read any fine print by the tribal casino in question, but I'm pretty sure that these cards do not belong to the player. They belong to the casino and are issued to the player.

Let's be honest here. Your friend is getting over on the casino by using other people's free/match play. You say he's risking his own money - he's not. He puts 5 coins in, the machine reimburses those 5 coins, win or lose. So, he is essentially stealing money from the casino. You could argue that if it's not him getting the money, it's his friend/family, so what's the harm?

Honestly - I can't say what the specific harm is, because nobody can really specifically lay out the financial loss.

But, I think it comes down to human psychology.

One person, like myself when I'm rested, can enter a casino, use the free play and leave without doing any more gambling
Another, like myself when I'm not rested, can enter a casino and will toss 400 bucks in one machine hoping for a big hit and then be mad at myself for believing the machine "was due".
Another person, like myself with a whole lot of beer (hasn't happened in a dozen years) and a few shots of Ouzo, will call friends, bring them into the casino and give all of them money to gamble and blow thousands that were ear-marked for other things.

So, when those match/free play offers are sent out - and one guy uses all of them, unless he's guy number 3, or maybe even guy number 2, it doesn't really play to the casino's best interest. I realize that the casino looks like some big giant place with big stacks of money on hand and that "they can afford it", but the reality is, for whatever reason, most casino's are struggling to make it. With the proliferation of sites like these educating players, with travel costs rising (maybe not fuel costs, but some airfares are pretty high) and workers wanting more money and more benefits - those costs are having an impact on the casinos, too.

I remember the last time I was playing Roulette at Boomtown in Vegas. The croupier said, "Hey, we didn't quit when we were winning!" (I left $640 ahead doing nothing but betting 5 bucks on the 2nd and 3rd thirds every spin. Very, very lucky. ) Remember, all those dealers, the flashing lights, they all have to get paid. Their insurance is probably being subsidized if not wholly paid by the casino. Taxes are likely high - maybe not for a tribal casino. Ultimately, jackpots can have a big impact on their bottom line, too. Over time, they *should* make that up, but they don't always last long enough. And, of course, sometimes, they're mismanaged. For example: too comp heavy - like Harrah's on the gulf coast. I've spent $1400 bucks in a two month period through two trips. Now I get 120 bucks of free play for the next two months, plus a lot of comps for meals and free rooms. Far more than what I've put into them. (only right since their machines don't have the best pay-tables and their buffet is sub-standard.)

So, that's my opinion. Beat the casino with your own free/match play. Don't give yours to others, and don't accept theirs. Those free play offers are like a part time job for me, giving me about $200 to $400 a month over the past 6 months. And it's a lot more fun than other jobs I've had. Let's not give them a reason to stop giving it out.
"Those who have no idea what they are doing, genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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December 21st, 2015 at 11:30:10 AM permalink
Quote: muleyvoice

So if a casino gift shops sells a book on counting, then it would be ok too ???


No. Casino bookstores may even sell Richard Marcus' book on how he used past posting and "pre-posting/retrieval" methods (the infamous Savannah) and that wouldn't make such actions all right.
The point here is that some things are indeed all right, but that the casino in this case doesn't mind allowed good play, as opposed to any sort of disallowed play, and AP's do know this difference. So no, they don't need to post the Bill of Rights or all of the State regs right at the table for them to be in force. Casinos don't expect all people to follow the rules, and will have the floorman provide status updates to the player if anything is amiss.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
muleyvoice
muleyvoice
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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December 21st, 2015 at 11:47:21 AM permalink
" will have the floorman provide status updates to the player if anything is amiss." Guido is the one who will deliver the update. LOL

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