qwertyoc
qwertyoc
Joined: Dec 17, 2015
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 7
December 18th, 2015 at 12:20:39 AM permalink
A good friend of mine was just recently arrested for playing on players club cards on slot machines that were friends and families cards which he had full permission from the persons and they had given him their PIN numbers to use them. This is a tribal casino that operates in Oklahoma and he was arrested by tribal police who also seized all of the cards by searching him without his permission and was transported by them to a municipal/city jail where he had to spend several hours until posting bail. Not only was he arrested, they obtained a search warrant for his vehicle and they towed it to their tribal police station (which consists of a portable building) and searched the vehicle as well as seized items in the vehicle that were completely irrelevant to players club cards (they claim they have 10 days to document everything they took from the vehicle and then they will mail the items to him). Every players club card he had in his possession and was playing on were cards that were given to him by family and friends along with their PIN numbers so he had full permission to use them by every person. He would go during match play times where the casino offers a $5 or $10 match play in that you would play the amount on the machine and then be able to download the match offer onto the machine. I have heard of other people getting caught doing this in other casino's in the area (much larger casinos BTW) which will personally confront the person and give them a temporary short term ban with the threat of a trespassing charge but this Casino had never confronted him to let him know they had a problem with this and it seems like the Casino realized how much they were losing by offering the promotions and then try to retaliate against my friend by abusing their power and arresting him for something that isn't against the law. The charge is "Obtaining property by false pretense". How could they consider free/match play "property" considering it has no cash value as you can't just cash it out of the machine, it forces you to play the vapor credit/money. Also, he is "earning" the free/match play by first risking money of his own so it isn't just being given to him and on many of the cards and some trips to the casino loses money even when only playing the required amount and playing the match/free play offered (although mostly not). I am curious what others opinions are or if anyone else has had this happen to them?
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 172
  • Posts: 10346
December 18th, 2015 at 12:32:35 AM permalink
Of course, a casino doesn't want their promotions used in ways they don't intend. They likely get more value when more people are showing up, than one person using all the cards.

Anyway, don't know about the rest. Always interesting to hear individual results from enforcement. Never really know what they are going to do next.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
tongni
tongni
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 203
December 18th, 2015 at 12:32:59 AM permalink
Probably not illegal, but your friend may spend $30k-80k in lawyer fees to prove that. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean you should do it or you will get away with it. You may PM for more detailed advice.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
December 18th, 2015 at 1:00:18 AM permalink
LOL! The universe punishes rash and un-thought
out acts likes this rather severely.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 261
  • Posts: 8852
December 18th, 2015 at 1:16:03 AM permalink
Quote: tongni

Probably not illegal, but your friend may spend $30k-80k in lawyer fees to prove that. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean you should do it or you will get away with it. You may PM for more detailed advice.



It is not illegal. Why would he spend 30k and up? The charge must be for something that is illegal. You don't have to prove a charge that doesn't exist.

In fact, if this was not a tribal casino, the casino would end up paying when a lawyer took them to court for illegal imprisonment. However, since it is a tribal casino, there is probably little recourse for a lawsuit.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 261
  • Posts: 8852
December 18th, 2015 at 1:24:02 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

It is not illegal. Why would he spend 30k and up? The charge must be for something that is illegal. You don't have to prove a charge that doesn't exist.

In fact, if this was not a tribal casino, the casino would end up paying when a lawyer took them to court for illegal imprisonment. However, since it is a tribal casino, there is probably little recourse for a lawsuit.



BTW - Every casino has published consequences in their club rules of what happens during unauthorized use of the cards by members other than the card holder. In every casinos literature, the consequences are usually forfeiture of promotional comp and, termination of membership. This is a casino standard (check the rules on almost every casinos website if you don't believe me.)

The published consequences are the only consequences the casino can do. If there were laws (you could be charged with a crime) then that would be stated.

Now, use of the cards without other players permission is a crime (theft of comps) and the tribal casino may be investigating (I'm sure they are not going to take your friends word for it.) Most likely, they will email or call the card holders to confirm. If they say they know nothing about it (to keep their comps) then your friend may be in trouble but these people would have to testify at a trial. And then your friend may have to spend thousands to get through this pickle. He should tell his family and friends to speak the truth if the casino contacts them.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
Joined: Jul 9, 2010
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 946
December 18th, 2015 at 1:33:55 AM permalink
One tribal casino operating in Connecticut states "membership benefits are non-transferable," the other says "benefits are only valid for the guest whose name appears on the card." I think it probable the tribal casino your friend visited has a similar provision, and if so, he was violating tribal law. That said, it is generally known that spouses sharing a card is tolerated, but playing a large number of other people's cards is not. Your friend should have been aware of the risk he was taking. If you take the casinos money in a way they don't approve, of course they will step on you hard.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 261
  • Posts: 8852
December 18th, 2015 at 1:41:49 AM permalink
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

One tribal casino operating in Connecticut states "membership benefits are non-transferable," the other says "benefits are only valid for the guest whose name appears on the card." I think it probable the tribal casino your friend visited has a similar provision, and if so, he was violating tribal law. That said, it is generally known that spouses sharing a card is tolerated, but playing a large number of other people's cards is not. Your friend should have been aware of the risk he was taking. If you take the casinos money in a way they don't approve, of course they will step on you hard.



Please recognize that rules of a casino are not laws. Now tribal lands may be different however, if you were in a non-tribal casino and the rules you stated above were printed, this would not make using multiple cards illegal - because a casino is not a lawmaking body.

Now, I looked up 3 OK tribal casinos (there are about 500) and I noted two things about all of them.

1) none printed the rules of membership period. Nothing about consequences of using another players card. As BleedingChipsSlowly points out, the tribal casino in Connecticut certainly does.

2) These casinos are really small. One boasts of just 200 slots. In most casinos its impossible to catch this because they don't have the manpower to zoom in on thousands of players at the slots to check on who is using someone else's card but these casinos are so small, the guy probably gave himself away by switching cards
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
Joined: Jul 9, 2010
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 946
December 18th, 2015 at 2:00:05 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Please recognize that rules of a casino are not laws. Now tribal lands may be different however, if you were in a non-tribal casino and the rules you stated above were printed, this would not make using multiple cards illegal - because a casino is not a lawmaking body.

Now, I looked up 3 OK tribal casinos (there are about 500) and I noted two things about all of them.

1) none printed the rules of membership period. Nothing about consequences of using another players card. As BleedingChipsSlowly points out, the tribal casino in Connecticut certainly does.

2) These casinos are really small. One boasts of just 200 slots. In most casinos its impossible to catch this because they don't have the manpower to zoom in on thousands of players at the slots to check on who is using someone else's card but these casinos are so small, the guy probably gave himself away by switching cards

Point taken: casino regulations are not law. Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun are large enough enterprises to get the legal ends tied up nicely, as opposed to the outfits you researched. However, I wouldn't take their web site as the complete authority in the matter. I'll bet there was some paperwork signed during the process of obtaining a player's card that has much more detail. In the end I think we both agree the major fault was blatant abuse to the point of drawing attention.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 311
  • Posts: 8622
December 18th, 2015 at 3:15:28 AM permalink
I'd like to have multiple player's cards - and the permission to use them as I pleased - when what you can earn in promotional free play is limited. This would allow me to bust through the limits. I would then go ahead and use the free play.

Quote: qwertyoc

he is "earning" the free/match play by first risking money of his own



You seem to suggest your friend gives the free play earned to the person who loaned him the card. That is certainly still not going to be liked by the casino but probably they would tolerate it to some degree if they knew for sure that was the case. If I was the casino I'd assume it was situation #1 above without the granted permission though; I'd see if I could prove it too.

I agree that it seems they could have just banned him instead of going nuts; however, if the amounts he has accumulated trip over into the felony zone? You have to figure this sometimes happens. Since you are defending your friend, I'll go along with the idea that he was no such thief and sympathize. I'm sure you are confident about the quality of his character.

Did you give him your card and pin ?

btw, why does he need the pin?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

  • Jump to: