mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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December 18th, 2015 at 10:50:22 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

I'm curious... if slot free play "has no cash value," as is explicitly stated, is it still theft? Nothing of value was taken.



The IRS thinks free slot play has a cash value
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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December 18th, 2015 at 11:38:49 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

The IRS thinks free slot play has a cash value



I don't think so.

I believe you're supposed to report what your actual results were after playing through the free-play (ie: $100 FP, end up with $90, report a $90 win). Not a $100 win (FP) then a $10 loss.

But -- the casinos say it themselves, free-play has no cash value.
Dalex64
Dalex64
Joined: Feb 10, 2013
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December 18th, 2015 at 12:02:25 PM permalink
Quote: Joeman

I'm curious... if slot free play "has no cash value," as is explicitly stated, is it still theft? Nothing of value was taken.


"no cash value" just means that it can not be redeemed for cash.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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December 18th, 2015 at 12:04:47 PM permalink
Quote: RS

But -- the casinos say it themselves, free-play has no cash value.


This just means that they won't give you that value in cash. Store coupons are almost the same with most saying something like "cash value = 1/100 of 1¢" or something equivalent. When in reality, that coupon let's us keep the full amount listed in our pockets.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
waasnoday
waasnoday
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
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December 18th, 2015 at 12:29:45 PM permalink
At present time IRS does not consider free-play to be a revenue stream but they are looking to tax what is won from free-play at the promotional level and not at the present jackpot level. Currently a casino must report slot machine winning at the $1200 cap which includes winnings from free-play. Casinos have been informed that the IRS is considering a requirement for casinos to track all wins from free-play and reporting winning at the $600 dollar level. Casinos are not happy with that and are fighting it. Hopefully the reporting level does not change to the lesser level.

Regarding the player card issue, kewlj I believe has hit the nail on the head with his post. At present time there is a pretty major investigation in progress that does involve the FBI and is in regards to player card use, atm card use, and identity theft. A bulletin came out that mentioned a case in Ohio (I think) but also mentioned the east coast stuff. The bulletin was not that informative and basically supplied the information I just stated. That was several months ago and I have not had anything else like that cross my desk. While that investigation is happening, I think many native and non-native casinos may be a bit paranoid about player card use.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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December 18th, 2015 at 2:39:53 PM permalink
Saying that the IRS doesn't consider freeplay to have monetary value but that the income from it is taxable is entirely an issue of semantics.
waasnoday
waasnoday
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
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December 18th, 2015 at 2:46:00 PM permalink
eh? Just reporting what the revenue audit staff was told at the last training session by the IRS rep that was present.
qwertyoc
qwertyoc
Joined: Dec 17, 2015
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December 18th, 2015 at 4:19:14 PM permalink
Thanks everyone for the information so far, to answer some of the questions, this casino does not make you sign anything or read any rules about a players club card before issuing it. You hand them your license, they scan it and ask you what you would like to use for your PIN and then hand you the players card. On the Casino's website under casino rules, in regards to playing on other peoples cards states: "Use of another person's player's club card is not permitted for any reason." but then in regards to cashing out tickets (unrelated to this case) says "Using or cashing out another patron's machine credits/tickets without that patron's permission may result in a permanent ban and/or arrest and prosecution."

Why wouldn't they have said use of another persons card was subject to these same things unless they knew they have no right to do so regarding playing on another persons players club card?

Also, how can they allow a person to play on their spouses card and claim they have no problem with that but then prosecute because someone is playing more cards than they would prefer? It is either against the rules/illegal to play on someone elses card or it isn't? Correct?
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
Joined: Jul 9, 2010
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December 18th, 2015 at 5:16:16 PM permalink
In my opinion, they turn a blind eye towards spouses sharing cards as a practical decision. For most cases a marriage contract represents a shared pool of money, so treating both partners as a single business unit makes sense. I understand your objection to selective enforcement of a regulation. The regulation exists to protect the casino’s interest. I believe all businesses selectively enforce the regulations they make, ignore them if it suits their purpose and change them in a heartbeat if that’s expedient. Your friend may try to hinge his case on selective enforcement, but I think the severity of the violation will weigh against him.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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December 18th, 2015 at 5:34:20 PM permalink
Couldn't one just play ignorant? Even if the rules are posted on their site or on a sign in the casino how do they know you read it? I have never once signed anu thing saying I knew any rules nor have I even had them read to me when getting a new card. How would one know about these rules.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW

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