FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
March 4th, 2012 at 7:37:47 PM permalink
Gave a talk recently on Humanae Vitae, the last encyclical of Paul VI written in 1968 when he laid out the reasons behind the Church's oppostion to artificial contraception. I found these paragraphs prophetic and thought I would share them:

Quote: Humanae Vitae

17. Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife.

s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
  • Threads: 51
  • Posts: 3259
March 4th, 2012 at 8:27:28 PM permalink
I was going to point out some flaws in the logic but I think they are glaring and need no assistance from me. I'll just add that "celibate" people really shouldn't be talking about sex because they don't have a clue.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
March 4th, 2012 at 8:38:42 PM permalink
>>reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner>>

Yeah, those poor women, too bad they can't enjoy sex too.
What a bunch of malarky. Spoken like a man who's never
had sex with an insatiable wowam, or any woman at all.

Its been proven with brain scans that women actually enjoy
sex more than men do. At orgasm, a woman's brain lights
up like a Christmas tree. In a man, only a small part lights
up. So when a man is satisfying his evil desires, he's also
satisfying hers. The Church should really wander out of the
15th century and look around once in awhile.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
March 4th, 2012 at 9:43:30 PM permalink
Yikes. With the 60 minutes interview last night about the Catholic Church sex scandal coverup (still going on) and the contraceptive bull shit, I'm really getting pissed off at the Catholic Church.

Look. Women and men really enjoy sex, especially together. In a married relationship, I'd like to have sex over and over again without thinking about having children. The rhythm method and the withdrawal method are both very unreliable. My 14 year old daughter is a result of the rhythm method, as my now-ex wife didn't want to take the pill because of bloating. Now, don't get me wrong, she's a beautiful thing, mind you (my daughter) but was completely unintentional.

In an relationship outside of marriage, of course, the pill and other contraceptive methods I am sure has made intercourse outside of marriage more prolific. And maybe that's your point. But the cat has been let out of the bag now -- the pill's been available for over 50 years (40 years if you were unmarried). And condoms have been around for hundreds of years.

Let it go already.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
March 4th, 2012 at 10:57:46 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Gave a talk recently on Humanae Vitae, the last encyclical of Paul VI written in 1968 when he laid out the reasons behind the Church's oppostion to artificial contraception. I found these paragraphs prophetic and thought I would share them:



When the pill was first marketed in 1960, all advertising was aimed purely at married couples who wanted to control their fertility. From antiquity, the plant Sikphium (which no longer exists) which functioned as a contraceptive was one of the world's most valuable commodities. So valuable that it's likeness was put on a coin.


I would like to momentarily set aside the issues of infidelity and pre-marital sex. clearly unplanned pregnancies, sexually transmitted disease, and many other issues are combined into those questions.

A half century after the introduction of the pill, it seems dated to tell married couples to rely solely on the rhythm method as contraceptive given the extreme life altering consequences of unplanned pregnancy. As I am not Catholic, I don't know the position on Vasectomy or other surgery.
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
March 4th, 2012 at 10:59:46 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo


Look. Women and men really enjoy sex, especially together. In a married relationship, I'd like to have sex over and over again without thinking about having children. The rhythm method and the withdrawal method are both very unreliable. My 14 year old daughter is a result of the rhythm method, as my now-ex wife didn't want to take the pill because of bloating. Now, don't get me wrong, she's a beautiful thing, mind you (my daughter) but was completely unintentional.

In an relationship outside of marriage, of course, the pill and other contraceptive methods I am sure has made intercourse outside of marriage more prolific. And maybe that's your point. But the cat has been let out of the bag now -- the pill's been available for over 50 years (40 years if you were unmarried). And condoms have been around for hundreds of years.

Let it go already.



Congratualtions on your daughter, intentional or not what a precious gift. The science of Natural Family Planning is such that today if you do not want to conceive a child it is every bit as effective as any artificial means of brith control and still respects the natural and healthy fertility of a woman (and in doing so respects the woman herself).

I agree the cat is out of the bag and it has caused devasting consequences. Hopefully by having the topic of contraceptives in the news lately many people will honestly look at the issue and see that the Church has been 100% correct about this all along.
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
March 4th, 2012 at 11:07:05 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


A half century after the introduction of the pill, it seems dated to tell married couples to rely solely on the rhythm method as contraceptive given the extreme life altering consequences of unplanned pregnancy. As I am not Catholic, I don't know the position on Vasectomy or other surgery.



The rhythm method is not taught anymore. Science has progressed and given a very reliable way to avoid pregnancy if for good reasons a married couple determines they should not have children at this time. This is called Natural Family Planning or NFP and it is not only as effective as artifical birth control but much better in many ways. Any sterlization procedure for man or woman would be an artifical means (and sometimes permanent) of birth control and therefore rejected by the Church.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
March 5th, 2012 at 12:15:46 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

This is called Natural Family Planning .



The reason NFP only works for the most fanatical religious
zealots is most people want to have sex spontaneously.
The whole charting, checking your mucous, checking your
temperature, and scheduling when you can have sex is
way too much work for most people and definitely kills
the mood. And at its very best, NFP is effective about 90%
of the time, and thats if you follow it to the letter, which
hardly anybody does. Thats like buying a box of condoms
where every 10th one has a hole in it. Whats the point..

Its the height of irony and hypocrisy that people who never
have sex, take it upon themselves to preach to others how
they should handle their sex lives. Thats like people who've
never driven or ridden in a car, trying to lecture others on
how to drive. Its ridiculous.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 907
March 5th, 2012 at 12:18:39 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

The rhythm method is not taught anymore. Science has progressed and given a very reliable way to avoid pregnancy if for good reasons a married couple determines they should not have children at this time. This is called Natural Family Planning or NFP and it is not only as effective as artifical birth control but much better in many ways. Any sterlization procedure for man or woman would be an artifical means (and sometimes permanent) of birth control and therefore rejected by the Church.



So NFP tracks a woman's fertility cycle and you adjust accordingly? What is the percentage of accuracy there? A good JOB machine can give me 99.7% or better. I would walk past a JOB paying 97%. My wife according to God's plan has MS. Fortunately God found it apt to give her a "benign" case (benign in MS means you are not F'ed up now but every morning is a Come Out roll.) however if we were to have children there is a good chance they would end up with MS. Tell me how it is more of a sin to have a vasectomy than to give birth to a child who may have a short life of pain? Slippery slope to Christian Scientists. Methods of birth control were used in Biblical times however they don't feature prominently in the Bible.

I mean no disrespect to you Father but as the old saying goes "Walk a mile in my shoes" or perhaps "judge not lest ye be judged thy self". If my admission to Heaven comes down to a 1/16th of an inch of my vas deferentia I might not want to come in anyway.

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 907
March 5th, 2012 at 12:20:17 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

The reason NFP only works for the most fanatical religious
zealots is most people want to have sex spontaneously.
The whole charting, checking your mucous, checking your
temperature, and scheduling when you can have sex is
way too much work for most people and definitely kills
the mood. And at its very best, NFP is effective about 90%
of the time, and thats if you follow it to the letter, which
hardly anybody does. Thats like buying a box of condoms
where every 10th one has a hole in it. Whats the point..

Its the height of irony and hypocrisy that people who never
have sex, take it upon themselves to preach to others how
they should handle their sex lives. Thats like people who've
never driven or ridden in a car, trying to lecture others on
how to drive. Its ridiculous.



See even me and Evenbob agree. The world is comming to the end!
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.

  • Jump to: