EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 12th, 2012 at 10:07:00 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

I am simply saying that there are truths you cannot reach through science and these are the truths that really matter, like life after death.



How does what happens after death matter? It
happens to every living thing, it is what it is.
Its not us thats nervous about accepting the
inevitable, its the high strung religious types,
that are so stressed about it they have to invent
paradises and then convince themselves it real.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 12th, 2012 at 10:19:23 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

As wise woman once said "Anyone can invent a "truth" and then challenge science to explain it. Science has no explanation for the "truths" claimed by Astrology, for example. That must mean these are most true and most important, right?"



Not only are there truths outside of the scientific realm there are also ways of verifying truth and validity that do not depend on the scientific method. There are other tests besides scientific ones that can prove for example Astrology or the flying spaghetti monster is not the most true or most important.
Nareed
Nareed
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October 13th, 2012 at 6:58:50 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Not only are there truths outside of the scientific realm there are also ways of verifying truth and validity that do not depend on the scientific method.



Be honest. What you're claiming is that there are "truths" that can be verified without suing any evidence gained objectively by human senses. In other words, "truths" that can be verified by wishful thinking.

Quote:

There are other tests besides scientific ones that can prove for example Astrology or the flying spaghetti monster is not the most true or most important.



BTW, the Pastafarian version of Armageddon has the Antipasto and his followers consuming the Most Hallowed Noodly One in a Last Supper. Scary stuff ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Scotty71
Scotty71
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October 13th, 2012 at 7:44:10 AM permalink
It must be strange for many of these folks who believe that they don't have a soul or a connection to the earth and heavens. I have never seen a picture of love but I have felt it. I am NOT saying that the "non believers" don't have souls but simply cant explain why they are unique beyond obvious life experiences that shaped their attitudes. Here is an amazing presentation by a SCIENTIST amazing
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." E.E. Cummings
Mosca
Mosca
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October 13th, 2012 at 8:07:41 AM permalink
Assuming that what is meant is "awareness", life after death is simply unknowable. We only have the position of life to understand it from. However, you could also say that awareness is simply part of the world understanding itself. Death for our awareness and understanding means life for the worms and bacteria. Are bacteria aware? I don't know, let's ask 'em!

Understand, I'm not agreeing with those who are adamant about awareness after death. They are as ignorant as anyone else on the subject. However, I would suggest that if awareness leaving the body creates an impenetrable barrier to communication, then the question becomes moot. And, apocrypha to the contrary, there is no verifiable evidence of communication with the dead.
NO KILL I
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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October 13th, 2012 at 8:13:54 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Nareed
Nareed
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October 13th, 2012 at 8:34:24 AM permalink
Quote: Scotty71

I have never seen a picture of love but I have felt it.



That's not so. Everyone's seen and experienced love. People act and feel differently towards people and things they love than those they don't. The same goes for anger, sadness, happiness, etc. Emotions have been researched and investigated by psychiatrists, psychologist, sociologists, endocrinologists, neurologists, and a plethora of other specialists in the physical and social sciences.

Quote:

I am NOT saying that the "non believers" don't have souls but simply cant explain why they are unique beyond obvious life experiences that shaped their attitudes.



I AM saying non-believers, believers and agnostics don't have a shred of evidence of any kind regarding the existence of "souls."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 13th, 2012 at 8:25:41 PM permalink
Do you really think there is no spiritual realm or immaterial realities like souls or spirits? When you see a corpse what is different about that human being whose heart has stopped beating and the moment before it stopped? What about the difference between us and every other living thing that exists? I think if you reflect on these things you might find some reasonable evidence for the existence of souls which goes a little beyond "wishful thinking".
Nareed
Nareed
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October 13th, 2012 at 8:37:58 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

When you see a corpse what is different about that human being whose heart has stopped beating and the moment before it stopped?



For one thing the corpse no longer has a beating heart. For another, the cells and compounds that constituted and sustained that person are now beginning to decay and rot. That's a very big difference. If you want more, the corpse's brian is no longer active, so it's without a mind. That's an even bigger difference.

Quote:

What about the difference between us and every other living thing that exists?



Plenty. For one thing we have brains big enough to form and manipulate abstractions. for another, we have the physical means, lacking in most other species, to manipulate the world around us.

In most case, these are differences in kind. In some case, they are differences in degree. For example, many great apes can be taught a rudimentary form of language (though they have none of their own). Therefore they have some capacity for abstraction, but one that is clearly well below the human level. That's why even though they have hands, they don't build tools.


Quote:

I think if you reflect on these things you might find some reasonable evidence for the existence of souls which goes a little beyond "wishful thinking".



I've reflected a great deal about it. I see nothing that would lead me to even suspect an immaterial human component that exists in any way independently of the human body.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 13th, 2012 at 8:42:59 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Do you really think there is no spiritual realm or immaterial realities like souls or spirits?



Whatever happens after death, happens to everybody.
Its organized religion that has to make a huge meldrama out
of it. Its lines their coffers and inflates their egos.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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