steeldco
steeldco
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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March 18th, 2014 at 1:29:35 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

Hot stuff! GTAT waited for you to buy in to take off today. Here is to hoping that past result are indicative of future performance.



Nice, but not as good as YNDX or SVA. :-)
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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March 18th, 2014 at 1:51:33 PM permalink
Quote: treetopbuddy

I'm fairly sure that CoolMike knows what the SPXS is……I'm also fairly sure you don't know that you don't know that your portfolio's Delta is way out of whack……look up Delta and report back:-)



Actually.... Cool Mike's post was initially a paragraph or two basically saying I should buy something like SPY or something.... then he edited the whole thing after he saw the other poster's spxs post..... so I think I was correct..... but it doesn't matter.....
As far as this particular portfolio's delta.... it is just a part of my overall retirement portfolio, so it really can't be viewed by itself that way......
I have another that is split equally between VPL and VTI.....
And another that is solely in FUSEX....

If you look at those individually you would think I have no idea what I am doing.......

(And maybe you would be right?)

By the way, thanks to all the suggestions....... since this is a decades long thing it doesn't really matter... but day one and two were great!
SFB
SFB
Joined: Dec 20, 2010
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March 18th, 2014 at 3:16:18 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

What? Any ETF's fees are disclosed via the expense ratio, which you can compare right along side the mutual funds as well. In addition, most brokerage accounts allow you to trade in their "branded" asset-class ETFs with no trading fees.


WOW, this is some genuinely terrible investing advice. Sounds like a recipe for buying high, selling low, and eating up your return in trading fees.



Like you broker doesn't do this?

My point is the costs of managing your account.

The brokers and financial advisors all want you to by ETF's, mutual funds, or to be "advised" by them. So that they can charge you more fees.

SOOPOO is asking for some stocks to buy for a portion of his IRA account. He will have to pay a transaction cost to buy into those individual stocks, with TDAmeritrade, that direct cost at that time can be pretty low.

After that, what is his cost to have that stock in his portfolio?

What is the cost to have an ETF? Yes, its fee's are listed in its prospectus. And It can be pretty low. Less than 1%....

What about mutual funds? Another fee. It is disclosed as well. But it is still a fee.

Remember, the ones collecting the fee are the ones telling you to pay it.

And where did I say that you are Buying High and Selling Low? I stated to review your portfolio and sell the losers. (And you get to define what losers you have in your portfolio...by whatever means) And then buy better companies. And your fees are FIXED right then. This is what it cost you to make that trade, no further expenses as long as you hold that stock.

If SOOPOO buys all the stocks on his list, and comes back one year from now, and stays put on everything, I would have to presume that each stock was worth keeping at that point. But if Stock XYZ was up 30% and its P/E was 50, maybe it is time to sell. Or not. But if a stock was down 30%, maybe it is time for it to go. The point is to LOOK and then make a decision.

SFB
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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March 18th, 2014 at 4:46:52 PM permalink
Quote: SFB

Quote: AcesAndEights

What? Any ETF's fees are disclosed via the expense ratio, which you can compare right along side the mutual funds as well. In addition, most brokerage accounts allow you to trade in their "branded" asset-class ETFs with no trading fees.


WOW, this is some genuinely terrible investing advice. Sounds like a recipe for buying high, selling low, and eating up your return in trading fees.



Like you broker doesn't do this?

My point is the costs of managing your account.

The brokers and financial advisors all want you to by ETF's, mutual funds, or to be "advised" by them. So that they can charge you more fees.


I only buy mutual funds and ETFs that track an index. Yes, there are fees to manage their operation, but there is no hot-shot hedge fund manager picking stocks...the funds track an index. The expense rations are generally under 0.5%. I don't pay any advisers or financial managers.

Quote:

SOOPOO is asking for some stocks to buy for a portion of his IRA account. He will have to pay a transaction cost to buy into those individual stocks, with TDAmeritrade, that direct cost at that time can be pretty low.


Yes, I understand transaction costs/trading fees. These are the fees I'm talking about when you're frequently changing positions in your portfolio. But I can buy and sell Schwab-branded ETFs and mutual funds fee-free in my Schwab account; most other online brokers offer the same service.

Quote:

After that, what is his cost to have that stock in his portfolio?

What is the cost to have an ETF? Yes, its fee's are listed in its prospectus. And It can be pretty low. Less than 1%....

What about mutual funds? Another fee. It is disclosed as well. But it is still a fee.

Remember, the ones collecting the fee are the ones telling you to pay it.

And where did I say that you are Buying High and Selling Low? I stated to review your portfolio and sell the losers. (And you get to define what losers you have in your portfolio...by whatever means) And then buy better companies. And your fees are FIXED right then. This is what it cost you to make that trade, no further expenses as long as you hold that stock.

If SOOPOO buys all the stocks on his list, and comes back one year from now, and stays put on everything, I would have to presume that each stock was worth keeping at that point. But if Stock XYZ was up 30% and its P/E was 50, maybe it is time to sell. Or not. But if a stock was down 30%, maybe it is time for it to go. The point is to LOOK and then make a decision.


Okay, you're correct that I mis-attributed how you were picking the losers and winners in your portfolio. If it were just based on price, that's where my buy-high, sell-low comment came from.

Past that, I'm not really sure what we're arguing about. There are costs involved in putting your capital to work, yes. The goal should be to make sure those costs are as small a percentage as possible of your expected long-term return. Buying low-cost index funds and ETFs on your way to following an appropriate asset class allocation strategy for your goals is a good way to do that. Picking individual stocks and constantly swapping them in and out of your portfolio is not a sane investment strategy. You are not smart enough to beat the indexers. Even Warren Buffet, the greatest investor of all time, agrees with this point.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
soxfan
soxfan
Joined: Oct 10, 2013
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March 18th, 2014 at 5:11:23 PM permalink
Shrewd cats should be loading up on mining exploration plays, hey hey.
" Life is a well of joy; but where the rabble drinks too, all wells are poisoned!" Nietzsche
treetopbuddy
treetopbuddy
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
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March 18th, 2014 at 5:35:38 PM permalink
Quote: soxfan

Shrewd cats should be loading up on mining exploration plays, hey hey.



Serious resistance yet on those plays. Lots of cats waiting to be made whole. Shrewd cats are laying in the bush waiting for a breakout.
Each day is better than the next
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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March 18th, 2014 at 5:46:51 PM permalink
Quote: SFB

My point is the costs of managing your account.



I finally see what you mean.

However, I don't agree that this rules out ETFs, which have little cost. Take a look at the kind of diversification you get with Funds in general. In the prospectus the biggest holding might be 2% or something. I value diversification very highly and you can't duplicate it on your own.

Soopoo's diversification in his allocations looks good, but in no way is this a like a fund.

ETFs? pay the fees and quit grumbling. Mutual Funds? Observe some caution, go with Vanguard or similar, the wrong fund can eat you alive with costs. [with all funds there is the need to avoid goofball ideas, like an etf that only invests in , I dunno, pickle factories or somesuch - there are some weird ones out there]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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March 18th, 2014 at 6:05:45 PM permalink
The bigger ETFs have expense ratios around 0.2%. But remember... you are paying that 0.2% every year until you liquidate the position. For opening this account they are not charging me transaction fees for now. So buying a lot of different stocks doesn't really cost me anything now.... if I start trading a lot later its around $10 a trade.
The cost of managing this account will essentially approach zero. The hidden costs in ETFs I'll have to bear.

For whatever its worth, this account used to be part of a pension that we paid a manager 0.6% fee. He put it into a variety of DFA mutual funds which of course had their own internal fees, and individual bonds, which have fees for buying and selling, as well as the 'spread' you pay when you buy or sell. Due to the nature of the account and certain requirements, it was 60% bonds and 40% mutual funds. So I am very happy to 'freely' manage my own funds now...
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
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March 18th, 2014 at 6:15:09 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

So I am very happy to 'freely' manage my own funds now...

That begs the question, how did we do today?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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March 18th, 2014 at 6:23:05 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

That begs the question, how did we do today?



The picks from the members and my few on my own outperformed the market hugely. Up around 2%. Overall market up 1%. I think 5 individual issues were up 5% or more which is ridiculous positive variance. I'll edit in a minute with the top performers.

Rounded..... YNDX 7%
SVA 6%
RBL 6%
GTAT 5%
MM 4%
AR 4%

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