2016 Election
I went out of my way to agree with EvenBob about Sarah Palin. Except for calling Sarah Palin a scatterbrain which is demonstrably true, where did I first "insult" conservatives?Quote: RonCI know we will never agree and you did decide to insult "Conservatives" first this time around
Quote: s2dbakerPeople will see the true meaning of "Conservative".
Here.
How is that an insult? Is it the scare quotes?Quote: RonCHere.
Quote: s2dbakerHow is that an insult? Is it the scare quotes?
You meant "Conservative" in a derogatory way; just as I meant "Liberal". I said that we should just agree to disagree but you can't just do that...
When you said "Liberal" I didn't take it as derogatory. Don't you want people to see the true meaning of the word "Conservative"? I do. I think people should have informed choices. I believe that if they have informed choices then they, by and large, will choose to be "Liberal". It's not an insult to "Conservatives" to believe that, is it?Quote: RonCYou meant "Conservative" in a derogatory way; just as I meant "Liberal". I said that we should just agree to disagree but you can't just do that...
Quote: s2dbakerWhen you said "Liberal" I didn't take it as derogatory. Don't you want people to see the true meaning of the word "Conservative"? I do. I think people should have informed choices. I believe that if they have informed choices then they, by and large, will choose to be "Liberal". It's not an insult to "Conservatives" to believe that, is it?
Let's not play silly word games here...you meant "Conservative" in a negative way and feel that people would just hate "Conservatives" if they truly knew how they would like to see the country work. I said "Liberal" in a negative way and feel that if people knew what "Liberals" really want they would not like going in that direction.
So is portraying conservatism in a negative way rise to the level of "insult"?Quote: RonCLet's not play silly word games here...you meant "Conservative" in a negative way and feel that people would just hate "Conservatives" if they truly knew how they would like to see the country work. I said "Liberal" in a negative way and feel that if people knew what "Liberals" really want they would not like going in that direction.
Quote: s2dbakerSo is portraying conservatism in a negative way rise to the level of "insult"?
No--you can portray them any way you like. The word "insult" never came to mind in that way; the overly sensitive here might be looking for an insult in everything people who don't agree with them say, but I have little time for that nonsense. It is simpler than that and I guess I didn't explain it well enough to get my point across...
If we sit across the room and shout back and forth to each other that "Liberals are bad" and "Conservatives are bad" we are just wasting our time. Discussions about issues, even though we don't agree, might lead to positions that where compromise is possible but just saying "Liberal bad" or "Conservative bad" is a waste...
Quote: EvenBobWhat a speech. Just saw it again on Youtube. Flawless,
riveting. Nailed Obama to the wall. She's right where
we need her, pissing off the Left and getting out the
vote. She has the Libs peeing their pants about Nov..
I really wish there was a way for us liberals to truly convince conservatives that we actually like Sarah Palin. No, not the woman herself, she's a horrible human being who isn't qualified to hold any elected office, but we like the "idea" of her. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh. The stuff he says day in and day out makes Republicans look like a bunch of racist bigots, yet he appeals to the base so everyone on your side is afraid to say anything bad about him. Yes, Palin gets out the base vote for your side, but the rest of America (liberals and independents) understand that she's just a snake oil salesman with no other objective than getting attention and earning money for herself. So sure, flaunt her all you want. Rile up the base. But it's not going to attract any independents to your side.
And she does not have us "peeing our pants."
Well, maybe peeing our pants from laughter....
Quote: ams288I really wish there was a way for us liberals to truly convince conservatives that we actually like Sarah Palin. No, not the woman herself, she's a horrible human being who isn't qualified to hold any elected office, but we like the "idea" of her.
Please explain why she is a "horrible human being."
Quote:Kind of like Rush Limbaugh. The stuff he says day in and day out makes Republicans look like a bunch of racist bigots, yet he appeals to the base so everyone on your side is afraid to say anything bad about him.
Oh, please. It has been proven time and time again that Limbaugh does not make any racist remarks. When asked to provide examples liberals never can.
With Obama's approval at about 41% approval the independents are already speaking.
Can you imagine what his approval rating would be if journalists weren't constantly wearing their Lewinsky "presidential kneepads"? People would be clamoring for his impeachment by now.Quote: AZDuffmanWith Obama's approval at about 41% approval the independents are already speaking.
I always thought laws had a date they took effect and it was up to the President to implement and enforce them.
She served only half of her term as Governor of Alaska after being elected to that office by the people of Alaska. The reason she gave for quitting her job is unclear. That press conference is one of my favorites. I watch it in delirious wonder. Something about dead fish going with the flow. Totally incomprehensible. She just quit. That's a horrible person.Quote: AZDuffmanPlease explain why she is a "horrible human being."
We liberals provide examples that Limbaugh is a racist and then you make excuses for him. "Oh, Donovan McNabb wasn't a very good quarterback so saying that the press wanted him to succeed just because he is black isn't racist at all", "Oh, Barack the Magic Negro was a quote from the LA Times so putting it to music and playing it repeatedly isn't racist at all".Quote: AZDuffmanOh, please. It has been proven time and time again that Limbaugh does not make any racist remarks. When asked to provide examples liberals never can.
With Obama's approval at about 41% approval the independents are already speaking.
BTW, Gallup has BHO at 45% approval which (even at 41) is still higher than GWB at the same point in his presidency.
Quote: s2dbaker"Oh, Barack the Magic Negro was a quote from the LA Times so putting it to music and playing it repeatedly isn't racist at all".
.
It isn't. A black guy wrote it about a black guy, how
can it be racist. You have no idea what racism is,
you've proven it again and again.
...and we conservatives provide examples of how the Obama administration LIED about Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the NSA, etc., but then you make excuses for Obama saying:Quote: s2dbakerWe liberals provide examples that Limbaugh is a racist and then you make excuses for him. "Oh, Donovan McNabb wasn't a very good quarterback so saying that the press wanted him to succeed just because he is black isn't racist at all", "Oh, Barack the Magic Negro was a quote from the LA Times so putting it to music and playing it repeatedly isn't racist at all".
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!!"
The same reasons why gullible people want to impeach any president whose approval rating is in the tank.Quote: boymimboImpeachment for what, exactly?
Quote: s2dbakerBTW, Gallup has BHO at 45% approval which (even at 41) is still higher than GWB at the same point in his presidency.
Impeachment fantasy. The conservatives need to stop swallowing and start spitting.
And Congress remains at 10-14%, and nobody has them hung in trees yet.
Quote: boymimboImpeachment for what, exactly?
How about appointing people without sending them to the Senate for confirmation even though the Senate was in session? Or just changing a law because he felt like it without sending it to Congress for revision?
Quote: s2dbakerShe served only half of her term as Governor of Alaska after being elected to that office by the people of Alaska. The reason she gave for quitting her job is unclear. That press conference is one of my favorites. I watch it in delirious wonder. Something about dead fish going with the flow. Totally incomprehensible. She just quit. That's a horrible person.
Not sure why quitting a job to take another makes you a horrible person. By that standard Obama decided he did not want to be a Senator after just a few months and wanted to be POTUS. Except he stayed around and collected his paycheck even though he was no longer fully working for the people who elected him. Is he a horrible person by your standards?
Quote:We liberals provide examples that Limbaugh is a racist and then you make excuses for him. "Oh, Donovan McNabb wasn't a very good quarterback so saying that the press wanted him to succeed just because he is black isn't racist at all", "Oh, Barack the Magic Negro was a quote from the LA Times so putting it to music and playing it repeatedly isn't racist at all".
What he said about McNabb is the truth, not racism. If you do not believe the press has been giving black QBs push since the 1970s you are blind or crazy. Limbaugh just broke an unwritten rule and pointed it out. And Obama has as his VP a guy who said he was "clean" and "didn't use his negro dialect unless he chooses to do so." So it seems such a thing is fine to use and not racist.
Good luck with that.Quote: AZDuffmanHow about appointing people without sending them to the Senate for confirmation even though the Senate was in session? Or just changing a law because he felt like it without sending it to Congress for revision?
Quote: s2dbakerShe served only half of her term as Governor of Alaska after being elected to that office by the people of Alaska. The reason she gave for quitting her job is unclear. That press conference is one of my favorites. I watch it in delirious wonder. Something about dead fish going with the flow. Totally incomprehensible. She just quit. That's a horrible person..
President Obama says a lot of things that are unclear. He voted "present" 129 times while serving in Illinois, which Hillary brought to our attention. He has trouble going off-prompter. He won't answer direct questions--did you see O'Reilly try to get him to do so? His Vice President praised his dialect. Wonderful.
Yet he is a great and wonderful person where Palin is lampooned over her bad moments.
No...both are individuals with flaws. One is not a major player on the national scene at this point; one is President. It is laughable that one gets more attention than the other over her mistakes.
Quote: s2dbakerWe liberals provide examples that Limbaugh is a racist and then you make excuses for him. "Oh, Donovan McNabb wasn't a very good quarterback so saying that the press wanted him to succeed just because he is black isn't racist at all", "Oh, Barack the Magic Negro was a quote from the LA Times so putting it to music and playing it repeatedly isn't racist at all".
Everything said about a person of color that you don't think is right is "racist" because there is no other way to make it "wrong"... Rush has used parody against every form of politician and he does not limit it to those of color. Is there somethng wrong with not thinking McNabb was a good QB? He most certainly is not the Hall of Fame player he tried to say that he was. He was adequate, not great.
Quote: s2dbakerBTW, Gallup has BHO at 45% approval which (even at 41) is still higher than GWB at the same point in his presidency.
There you go again...Bush isn't President and poll numbers have nothing to do with whether or not he is doing things that are immoral or illegal. The press is aiding and abetting by not demanding full investigations. Those full investigations would either determine he has done wrong or he hasn't. The problem is that neither the President or the press really want the answer...
Obama Visits Gap, Amazed by Credit Card Machine
At least not the way they portrayed Bush 41:
Bush Encounters the Supermarket, Amazed
Some people here will say that this is an "ethical dissimilarity".
I say it's media BIAS.
Hillary couldn't pump gas.
Mitt was fascinated with the sandwich ordering screen.
Obama was impressed with the credit card machine.
Who cares how the media treats it? If you think they're going to win elections based on the media's coverage of their interactions with credit card machines, you cray cray.
Quote: ams288Meh. Big time politicians are all isolated and out of touch.
Hillary couldn't pump gas.
Mitt was fascinated with the sandwich ordering screen.
Obama was impressed with the credit card machine.
Who cares how the media treats it? If you think they're going to win elections based on the media's coverage of their interactions with credit card machines, you cray cray.
So the media portraying one candidate as the best thing since sliced bread and the other as a buffoon would never have any impact on an election, right?
Sarah Palin said that she could see Russia from her backyard (just meaning that she was close to it; not that she could actually get up and watch Putin each morning) and Joe Biden said that Barack Obama was "clean and articulate"...just take a second and look at with them having said the opposite thing--Pain would have been portrayed as a racist; Biden would have gotten a pass due to his vast experience in foreign affairs.
The media has no impact...say it often enough and you may convince yourself...
Quote: ams288Meh. Big time politicians are all isolated and out of touch.
Hillary couldn't pump gas.
Mitt was fascinated with the sandwich ordering screen.
Obama was impressed with the credit card machine.
Who cares how the media treats it? If you think they're going to win elections based on the media's coverage of their interactions with credit card machines, you cray cray.
So the media portraying one candidate as the best thing since sliced bread and the other as a buffoon would never have any impact on an election, right?
Sarah Palin said that she could see Russia from her backyard (just meaning that she was close to it; not that she could actually get up and watch Putin each morning) and Joe Biden said that Barack Obama was "clean and articulate"...just take a second and look at with them having said the opposite thing--Pain would have been portrayed as a racist; Biden would have gotten a pass due to his vast experience in foreign affairs.
The media has no impact...say it often enough and you may convince yourself...
Quote: RonCSarah Palin said that she could see Russia from her backyard (just meaning that she was close to it; not that she could actually get up and watch Putin each morning)
Lol I think you've just opened a can of worms for Beethoven.
Quote: ams288
Mitt was fascinated with the sandwich ordering screen.
Mitt was not fascinated by an ordering screen. He used it as an example of how the private sector does things better than the government.
Quote: RonC
Sarah Palin Tina Fey said that she could see Russia from her backyard (just meaning that she was close to it; not that she could actually get up and watch Putin each morning) and Joe Biden said that Barack Obama was "clean and articulate"...just take a second and look at with them having said the opposite thing--Pain Fey would have been portrayed as a racist; Biden would have gotten a pass due to his vast experience in foreign affairs.
The media has no impact...say it often enough and you may convince yourself...
Even though the example is correct I hate to confuse the liberals who think Palin said it.
Jimmy Carter was weak and ineffectual as president and everything he did was framed in that light by the media (most notably the malaise speech).
Obama gets a pass because he is seen as hip and technologically savvy. This incident doesn't fit the narrative.
The media is harder on Republicans in this regard because more of the "cool kids" are liberal than conservative.
+1Quote: AZDuffmanMitt was not fascinated by an ordering screen. He used it as an example of how the private sector does things better than the government.
LL again.Quote: ams288Lol I think you've just opened a can of worms for Beethoven.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: RonC
Sarah Palin Tina Fey said that she could see Russia from her backyard (just meaning that she was close to it; not that she could actually get up and watch Putin each morning) and Joe Biden said that Barack Obama was "clean and articulate"...just take a second and look at with them having said the opposite thing--Pain Fey would have been portrayed as a racist; Biden would have gotten a pass due to his vast experience in foreign affairs.
The media has no impact...say it often enough and you may convince yourself...
Even though the example is correct I hate to confuse the liberals who think Palin said it.
You jumped in too quick, AZ...I was hoping to sucker one of the folks that always tries to talk badly about her into "remembering" her saying it...
She actually said:
"They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska"
Read more at http://snopes.com/politics/palin/russia.asp#AGIrgqYLXCVes6TX.99
Quote: AZDuffmanMitt was not fascinated by an ordering screen. He used it as an example of how the private sector does things better than the government.
Yeah good for him. The point of my post is that you guys get way too huffy puffy about media bias.
You have FOX News/Newcorp, by far the most biased media conglomerate, on your side. It just sounds like whining every time you complain about media bias.
Pick a winning issue to argue, cause you'll never gain points in a presidential election by whining about bias the whole time.
Don't respond to this trying to argue that FOX is fair and balanced, cause that'll just be a waste of your time.
How many utterly stupid things has this woman said in public? Yet the media or comedians never mention her, even if she is a nobody in Congress.
Yeah, when the Pilgrims came here 400 years ago the first thing they did was write the Mayflower Compact Constitution.
Quote: Beethoven9thLL again.
What does that even mean?
Quote: AZDuffmanHow many utterly stupid things has this woman said in public? Yet the media or comedians never mention her, even if she is a nobody in Congress.
You've answered your own question.
EDIT: Also, do comedians mention stupid things that Republican nobodies say? They usually just pick on the stupid things really famous Republicans say.
Quote: ams288The point of my post is that you guys get way too huffy puffy about media bias.
So...if the issue is not important to a Liberal (assumed; since you used the term "you guys"), we should just let it go?
Quote: ams288You have FOX News/Newcorp, by far the most biased media conglomerate, on your side. It just sounds like whining every time you complain about media bias.
Whining, huffy puffy...whatever. ABC/CBS/NBC vs. Fox. Which side wins in viewership on regular TV? Now Fox News does kick butt on "cable" but I doubt
EVENING NEWS (Week of March 3, 2014)
TOTAL VIEWERS ADULTS 25-54
ABC WORLD NEWS 8,547,000
NBC NIGHTLY NEWS 9,740,000
CBS EVENING NEWS 7,581,000
Granted Fox is by far the #1 News provider in the "cable" sphere...but their numbers fall far short of the totals for the major "over air" networks.
Quote: ams288Pick a winning issue to argue, cause you'll never gain points in a presidential election by whining about bias the whole time.
Thanks, friend...why not let us pick our issues and you folks pick yours. I love how those who are already on our side want to define our issues, too.
That is not to say that picking winning issues is not important--but each side can choose their own, thank you!
Quote: ams288Don't respond to this trying to argue that FOX is fair and balanced, cause that'll just be a waste of your time.
There is no need to make that argument--even if they are not fair and balanced, they don't control the media.
They are more fair and balanced than others, of course. Not ALL others, but some of them. MSNBC, for example.
Quote: ams288Quote: AZDuffmanHow many utterly stupid things has this woman said in public? Yet the media or comedians never mention her, even if she is a nobody in Congress.
You've answered your own question.
EDIT: Also, do comedians mention stupid things that Republican nobodies say? They usually just pick on the stupid things really famous Republicans say.
I'm blessed (cursed) to have this woman as a representative in our local area (she does not represent me, thankfully) and I can assure you that should a Republican say things similar to all of the things that she has said (shackles, being a slave, two Vietnams living side by side, etc.) and had her educational background (Yale undergrad, UVa JD), they'd be regularly lampooned as the dumbest Ivy Leaguer to ever earn a degree.
She is not exactly a nobody--she is featured at every State of the Union, often in a very bright outfit, trying to get ANY President (even one she says bad things about) to sign her copy of the speech and be pictured with her.
Quote: RonCThanks, friend...why not let us pick our issues and you folks pick yours. I love how those who are already on our side want to define our issues, too.
That is not to say that picking winning issues is not important--but each side can choose their own, thank you!
Well your side is awful at choosing what battles to fight.
Granted, you were never ever going to win the presidency in 2012, but your side could easily have taken the Senate by now had you not picked fringe candidates who were obsessed with abortion and couldn't stop talking about dumb stuff like "legitimate rape."
Quote: ams288Well your side is awful at choosing what battles to fight.
Granted, you were never ever going to win the presidency in 2012, but your side could easily have taken the Senate by now had you not picked fringe candidates who were obsessed with abortion and couldn't stop talking about dumb stuff like "legitimate rape."
All well and fine. The Democrats could have already locked up 2014 and maybe 2016 if they had done things right...but I don't get to pick what they do or their issues.
Quote: ams288
Granted, you were never ever going to win the presidency in 2012, but your side could easily have taken the Senate by now had you not picked fringe candidates who were obsessed with abortion and couldn't stop talking about dumb stuff like "legitimate rape."
The Democrats seem to be the ones obsessed with abortion. Demanding it be free; demanding it be available even to the point the baby is delivered; demanding minor females be allowed to get it without parental consent. They cannot stop talking about it. You would think if one abortion does not happen the world will end.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou would think if one abortion does not happen the world will end.
...and we think that when one happens, a world does end for someone.
I understand not making it the biggest issue at all times, but our stance will not be popular with everyone. It isn't an attempt to win a popularity contest. It is how we feel about an issue. If someone asks the question, we should be allowed to answer. If you don't want to vote for us because of it, fine. Being a one issue voter is just as stupid as being a one issue candidate.
Poll: Hillary Clinton trounces GOP in Iowa
Quote: Beethoven9thBTW, for those of you conservatives who think Republicans will come storming back in 2016, here's a reality check:
Poll: Hillary Clinton trounces GOP in Iowa
Way too early...we are over two years out; this poll is from about 18 months or so out in 2007...
"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton continues to lead the pack of Democratic presidential hopefuls, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll released Wednesday.
Clinton has a lead of about 15 percent, followed by Sen. Barack Obama in second place and former Vice President Al Gore and John Edwards tied for third."
"A recent CBS News/New York Times poll showed the public expects a Democratic candidate to win in 2008 by a more than 2-to-1 ratio. Democrats are overwhelmingly confident of victory, with 78 percent predicting their party will win."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/democrats.poll/
"According to the Washington Post-ABC News survey, Clinton’s lead has expanded over the Illinois senator, and is now at 53 percent to 30 percent among Democrats and Democratic-leading independents surveyed between Sept. 28 through Sept. 30. Her support is up 12 points in just three weeks while Obama's has fallen 7 points. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards ranked at 13 percent."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/10/03/hillary-clinton-leaps-ahead-in-latest-democratic-poll/
...but I hope the Democrats do start counting the Republicans out!!
Quote: RonCQuote: Beethoven9thBTW, for those of you conservatives who think Republicans will come storming back in 2016, here's a reality check:
Poll: Hillary Clinton trounces GOP in Iowa
Way too early...we are over two years out; this poll is from about 18 months or so out in 2007...
"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton continues to lead the pack of Democratic presidential hopefuls, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll released Wednesday.
Clinton has a lead of about 15 percent, followed by Sen. Barack Obama in second place and former Vice President Al Gore and John Edwards tied for third."
...but I hope the Democrats do start counting the Republicans out!!
The thing about Hillary is she has nowhere to go but down as things move on. She has supporters of course, but a good bit of her support is just that she is the only name people know. People who dislike her are never going to vote for her. A GOP challenger will come in as a mostly unknown, with lots of chances to win people over.
Hillary quite honestly has always seemed like a miserable person who never enjoys herself. I don't see her coming off as "more likable" no matter who the GOP puts up.
Actually, I totally agree with you on that.Quote: RonCWay too early...we are over two years out; this poll is from about 18 months or so out in 2007...
But considering that Republicans will probably have a good 2014, I guess what frustrates me the most is that a good number conservatives will end up all giddy and crowing about how they're going to win the presidency, just like they did in 1994 and 2010. And we all know what happened in the elections following those years.
But even if Hillary ends up tanking, and there is a different Democrat nominee in 2016, Republicans will still lose. Trust me, I would LOVE to be wrong about this, but when you look at the biased media and the scores of low information voters out there, it all adds up to disaster. For example, Democrats have flat out said that they're going to campaign on gay marriage in '14 and '16. This is the type of stuff that low information voters eat up!
Quote: RonCAll well and fine. The Democrats could have already locked up 2014 and maybe 2016 if they had done things right...but I don't get to pick what they do or their issues.
Oh come on. There was no way the Democrats were ever going to lock 2014 up. Mid-term elections during the 6th year of a President's tenure are historically awful for his party. Plus it's a tough year for Democrats just based on which states have Senate races this year. Lots of Democratic senators from red states will have a tough time defending their seats.
On the other hand, who says we don't already have 2016 locked up? :p
Quote: ams288Oh come on. There was no way the Democrats were ever going to lock 2014 up. Mid-term elections during the 6th year of a President's tenure are historically awful for his party. Plus it's a tough year for Democrats just based on which states have Senate races this year. Lots of Democratic senators from red states will have a tough time defending their seats.
"History" is just that...I believe that the Democrats were in a good position to hold their power through 2014's election cycle but now they will spend way too much time running away from the President. Having a "tough" year does not necessarily equate to a "losing" one.
Quote: ams288On the other hand, who says we don't already have 2016 locked up? :p
I hope they think that they do have it locked up!!
Quote: RonC"History" is just that...I believe that the Democrats were in a good position to hold their power through 2014's election cycle but now they will spend way too much time running away from the President. Having a "tough" year does not necessarily equate to a "losing" one.
I would not say they were in a good position at all. A POTUS who won with fewer votes and a narrower margin in 2012 vs 2008; unfavorable map in the Senate; midterm cycle/in-power; and above all the whole Obamacare fiasco. Blabermouth Schultz is pulling an Iraqi-Information-Minister on that one, saying Obamacare is so popular that is why they lost.
Looking more and more like it is time to send a case of duck food to the White House for Christmas.
LOL! The sad part though is that even if we could do a re-vote, low information voters would STILL support Obama!
Quote: Beethoven9thPoll of Americans: Vladimir Putin is a stronger leader than Barack Obama
LOL! The sad part though is that even if we could do a re-vote, low information voters would STILL support Obama!
They needed a poll for that?
