2016 Election

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-foreign-policy-speech-left-174900567.html;_ylt=AwrC0CYRiSNXxloAoPKTmYlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyNHZhZWZrBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDVklEMDNfMQRzZWMDc2M-

Below is an excerpt from the link above:

"To be fair to Trump, some folks liked his speech. For example, right-wing pundit Ann Coulter called it, “The greatest foreign policy speech since Washington’s farewell address.” Really, she did. In all caps, too."

I think we are about to enter a new phase of the campaign where all the tricks Trump has used during the primary no longer work for him in the general.

"Crooked Hillary" isn't catching on like "Little Marco" or "Lyin' Ted."

His speech on foreign policy was met with a shrug (although he claims the reviews were fantastic).

The "woman card" attack on Hillary backfired. Hillary fundraised off of it.

Today he put out a weird tweet saying Hillary was an "enabler". If his plan is to attack Bill Clinton's infidelities as a way of damaging Hillary with women, he's shooting his wad early. (Plus, it will never work).

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I like to read Bluejay input, more than I like to read mine, even if I find him offensive and uppity, on occasion. He's pretty good with sentence structure and punctuation.

Aw, that's the sweetest thing anyone's ever said to me! (with the exception of, "You know, you an alright nig*a.")

Now, if anyone anywhere ever gives me $#!† about anything, I'm gonna say, "Do you not know who you're dealing with? I'M MICHAEL BLUEJAY! And I am PRETTY GOOD WITH SENTENCE STRUCTURE AND PUNCTUATION!"

Oh, and thank you for offering to serve part of my sentence. You're too kind. But I just decided to take a break from the forum for a while anyway. I'm too busy besides.

Quote: ams288

I think we are about to enter a new phase of the campaign where all the tricks Trump has used during the primary no longer work for him in the general.

"Crooked Hillary" isn't catching on like "Little Marco" or "Lyin' Ted."

Yeah, that one will not work at all for him. Everyone already knew that about her; he is not breaking any news using that line...

Quote: RonC

Yeah, that one will not work at all for him. Everyone already knew that about her; he is not breaking any news using that line...

It's not as catchy.

"Crooked Clinton" sounds better, but she doesn't really emphasize her last name as much.

'Crooked Clinton' begs the question,
Which Clinton?

Boehner's tantrum about Cruz shows just what disarray the Republican party is in at this point. It really shows what everyone knew about him--he was a spineless creep who spent too much time tanning and too little time leading. Boehner was not able to face down the President and make him engage in any meaningful way, so he led the cave-ins that allowed the President to pretty much do what he wanted. You can't whine and cry about what the President is doing; you have to make a resounding case for your side and keep your team together. As he went further into his time as Speaker, he lost his team. They didn't fire him quick enough.

It doesn't matter if Cruz helped bring him down; he needs to hate him more privately and work towards getting Republicans elected...or change parties. I feel the same about the rest of the establishment Republicans--they need to get over themselves and work towards getting Republicans elected...even if one of them is not all that Republican (Trump). Sure, they need to fight out the platform and support their candidate along the way, but dividing the party more is not the answer. If Trump wins the nomination following the rules, so be it.

Boehner showed himself to be more like Lucifer than he accused Cruz of being...

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

'Crooked Clinton' begs the question,
Which Clinton?

Pick'em

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

'Crooked Clinton' begs the question,
Which Clinton?

I feel like funnier nicknames could be thought up for Bill than "Crooked Clinton."

Quote: RonC

Boehner's tantrum about Cruz shows just what disarray the Republican party is in at this point. It really shows what everyone knew about him--he was a spineless creep who spent too much time tanning and too little time leading....

If Boehner was trying to derail the shutdown because he knew it was going to backfire, I consider that the smarter move. I never thought it was going to do anything but aggravate more people than help the Republicans accomplish anything.

However, if that is Cruz's method of government, I guess we won't have too much reaching across the aisle going on. When Obama did "my way or the highway" people criticized him for it quite a bit.

Quote: mcallister3200

I think Gilbert Gottfried and Fran Drescher's voices are probably more tolerable than Limbaugh's. Whether I agree with what he says or not he sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

Well, since you mentioned Gilbert Gottfried, check out my outgoing voicemail message.

Getting back on topic (and apologies if this has been posted but I missed it in the hundreds of pages here), BOTH Clinton and Trump are viewed as unfavorable by most of the electorate. Given that we have a system where most people don't like either of our probable two choices for president, I think we can safely conclude that American democracy is broken.

I found this interesting
The US Wine industry is totally against Trump
Why
They view Trump as Anti business

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/02/wine-lobbyists-won-t-toast-donald-trump.html

See what happens when industry leaders have free access to their product.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I think we can safely conclude that American democracy is broken.

Been broken since at least the early 1970s when baseline budgeting became the law of the land.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Given that we have a system where most people don't like either of our probable two choices for president,

They're both the leaders in their parties.
If they are overwhelmingly disliked,
who the heck is voting for them. One
of these stats is incorrect, or probably
incomplete. Trump gets 30,000 at his
rallies, where are they coming from if
he's so hated. Hillary can't fill the first
5 rows of bleachers in a HS gym.

Quote: EvenBob

They're both the leaders in their parties. If they are overwhelmingly disliked, who the heck is voting for them. One of these stats is incorrect, or probably incomplete.

The stats make perfect sense. As America is roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right, and 1/3 in the middle, then it's not unusual if a majority dislikes a candidate on the left or the right. Though in this case Hilary isn't on the left so much as she's a moderate, and Trump's not on the right so much as he's just crazy.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

The stats make perfect sense. As America is roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right, and 1/3 in the middle, then it's not unusual if a majority dislikes a candidate on the left or the right. Though in this case Hilary isn't on the left so much as she's a moderate, and Trump's not on the right so much as he's just crazy.

Hillary a moderate? Come on, don't expect us to believe that.

Quote: EvenBob

They're both the leaders in their parties.
If they are overwhelmingly disliked,
who the heck is voting for them. One
of these stats is incorrect, or probably
incomplete. Trump gets 30,000 at his
rallies, where are they coming from if
he's so hated. Hillary can't fill the first
5 rows of bleachers in a HS gym.

I always feel like I'm lowering
myself responding to your posts EB, I feel like
I need a shower afterwards but here goes :-)

(The above is a little payback on how EB responds to AMS on DT)

Shrug
Palin the quitter easily got 30k at her rallies
lol
meaningless
Here is the reality
The free market is speaking
Trump about 3 to 1
Clinton about 1 to 3
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/winner

Quote: AZDuffman

Hillary a moderate? Come on, don't expect us to believe that.

You're right, I don't expect you to believe that, because you don't seem to care much for evidence. But for those willing to consider it:

"Hillary Clinton’s Moderation Is a Virtue", Slate. "She shouldn’t apologize for being a moderate. That’s what would make her a good president....Let’s cut out the purging, groveling, and acting. Hillary Clinton is a moderate. Moderation is an honorable way to live and govern. In fact, it’s the best way, because the world is too complex to fit any ideology perfectly. Clinton may shun the M-word, but if you listened to her carefully in Thursday night’s debate in Milwaukee, you heard how a moderate thinks and why it makes sense. Here are some examples...."

"Clinton 'pleads guilty' to being a moderate, CNN. "You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center," Clinton told the audience at a Women for Hillary event in Ohio. "I plead guilty." ... The Clintons -- both Bill and Hillary -- have long been seen as centrist Democrats, politicians willing to work with Republicans to strike compromise deals. Bill Clinton did this consistently in the White House, pushing free trade agreements and prioritizing debt reduction. ... Clinton argued at the Columbus event that being in the "center" is a positive, not a negative.

"Clinton: A Moderate Republican in Democrat's Clothing?, Tremr. To call Hilary Clinton a Democrat, while technically accurate, has always been a bit of a stretch. Her upbringing in a fervently anti-Communist, politically conservative household, as well as her active participation in Republican causes throughout the 60's, has been well documented. Obviously this is not to suggest politicians retain all the values of their younger years, but it is somewhat significant. Her views on the Civil Rights Movement and Vietnam War changed her political leaning away from the GOP while in college, however even she claimed that she saw herself as "a mind conservative and a heart liberal." ... If her actions as Secretary of State were any indicator of what her actions as President would be, it seems that Clinton favors military intervention far more than her competitors. ... Clinton has received major contributions from various banking and investment companies, including Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, and the Lehman Brothers. This essentially cements the idea that the banking industry would see no major changes under a possible Clinton presidency. ... While running for the Democratic ticket in 2008, Clinton endorsed civil unions for the LGBT community, but would not support marriage rights."

"There Is a Moderate Republican in This Race, But She’s Running as a Democrat, Huffington Post. This article explains how the entire political spectrum, both Republicans and Democrats have shifted to the right, putting Hillary in what has traditionally been considered the center. "Before this, from 1932-1976, the Democratic Party as a whole was far more progressive. The issues and approaches advocated today by Bernie Sanders were considered mainstream Democratic ideas by Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson, and even many moderate Republicans. It was common to support strict financial regulation, liberal immigration, social services for the poor, and progressive tax policies. ... Hillary Clinton’s stances, while fluid during this election cycle, are historically most in tune with classical Republican ideas, as advocated by Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and others. As a young woman, she volunteered for the conservative Barry Goldwater, and while today she’s become liberal on some social issues, she’s generally at home with moderate conservative ideas, such as a hawkish military, strict immigration laws, reduced welfare, laissez-faire rules for Wall Street, and international business treaties that favor large corporations. One group started a petition this year asking Clinton to run as a Republican, suggesting that while she is “liberal on some issues, on a wide range of important issues she lands squarely as a moderate conservative.” As for the Republican candidates still running in the primary this year — Donald Trump, John Kasich, and Ted Cruz — they are all to the right of Goldwater, and they would have been considered unelectable extremists and distant outliers on the spectrum before 1996."

She's no moderate.

Her voting record in the Senate got her listed as the 11th most liberal member of the Senate.

More liberal than 70% of the Democrats and 85% of all Senate members.

VoteView

She also voted with Bernie Sanders 93% of the time.

Washington Post

Based upon her political philosophy, she is ranked with Elizabeth Warren as a hard core liberal by

On The Issues

Scroll to the bottom of that page for the ranking and analysis.

Quote: Tanko

She's no moderate....

Most of that is because, like I said, the political spectrum has moved so far to the right that what is truly moderate now looks liberal by comparison.

OnTheissues places a lot of emphasis on quotes, but as we know, Hillary often says one thing and does another.

Yes, OnTheIssues rated her a hard-core liberal, but nevertheless notes that she:

* Wants to "pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget."
* Protect next generation by paying off national debt.
* Voted to limit credit card interest to 30%. (30%! Not much of a limit.)
* Opposed gay marriage
* Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning.
* Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping.
* Was rated rated only 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record.
* In an OpEd, disagreed with progressives on corporatism & military.
* Was rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record.
* Is a longtime advocate of death penalty.
* Supports “Three Strikes” and more prison.
* Failed to initially oppose the Keystone pipeline.
* Advocates a cap and trade system. [definitely the moderate position, compared to a carbon tax]
* Voted for Bush's Patriot Act.
* Voted for Bush's Gulf War.
* Advocated military intervention in Libya.
* Believes that Medicare-for-all is not economically feasible.
* Says that her priorities are to deport criminals and terrorists.
* Said, "I plead guilty to being a moderate."
* Said that Bill would be her adviser, and represent US around the world. [CLEAR moderate]
* Is sincerely religious.
* Said, Have faith in God, in our country, and in each other....Faith is not just something to cling to in hard times....I have always felt the presence of God in my life." Favorite Bible story: Purim story of Esther. etc. etc.
* "Hillary’s paradox: she’s not as liberal as people think."
* Believes millionaires should pay 30% tax rate instead of 0%-10%. [30% is below even what George W. Bush did in tax cuts for the rich]
* Pledged for no increase in middle tax taxes.
* Thinks we should perhaps raise capital gains tax, but at most to 20%. [20%!]

These are not the kinds of things you think of when you're thinking about a "hard-core liberal".

Yes, many of her positions and actions are truly liberal, but they're certainly balanced by her non-liberal positions and actions, which is what makes her overall centrist, and why so many have identified her as such (including Hillary herself, when she said "I plead guilty to being a moderate.")

Quote: EvenBob

They're both the leaders in their parties.
If they are overwhelmingly disliked,
who the heck is voting for them. One
of these stats is incorrect, or probably
incomplete. Trump gets 30,000 at his
rallies, where are they coming from if
he's so hated. Hillary can't fill the first
5 rows of bleachers in a HS gym.

How many rallies has Trump gotten 30,000 at?

1? 2?

I'm talking actual numbers, not Trump saying "There's 30,000 people here and thousands outside who can't get in!" He overinflates his numbers every time. He is a compulsive liar.

Quote: terapined

I always feel like I'm lowering
myself responding to your posts EB, I feel like
I need a shower afterwards but here goes :-)

(The above is a little payback on how EB responds to AMS on DT)

No need to defend me against EB.

I take him blocking me as a compliment.

We all know he can't handle the truth. ;)

Is there any forum member that does not think that Hilary Clinton will be the next President?

Quote: MichaelBluejay

You're right, I don't expect you to believe that, because you don't seem to care much for evidence.

Op-Eds from liberal publications are not "evidence" of her being a moderate. She is a far left liberal who will make a deal with her own devil if she thinks it will help her.

If you want to say you are a liberal and are voting for her because she is a liberal I will buy that. But to say she is a moderate is incorrect.

Quote: AZDuffman

If you want to say you are a liberal and are voting for her because she is a liberal I will buy that.

You really think I would vote for her, based on everything I've said? I would say something about your reading comprehension, but I got in trouble the last time I went that route.

But anyway, which of the following about Hillary are the liberal ones?

* Wants to "pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget."
* Protect next generation by paying off national debt.
* Voted to limit credit card interest to 30%. (30%! Not much of a limit.)
* Opposed gay marriage
* Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning.
* Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping.
* Was rated rated only 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record.
* In an OpEd, disagreed with progressives on corporatism & military.
* Was rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record.
* Is a longtime advocate of death penalty.
* Supports “Three Strikes” and more prison.
* Failed to initially oppose the Keystone pipeline.
* Advocates a cap and trade system. [definitely the moderate position, compared to a carbon tax]
* Voted for Bush's Patriot Act.
* Voted for Bush's Gulf War.
* Advocated military intervention in Libya.
* Believes that Medicare-for-all is not economically feasible.
* Says that her priorities are to deport criminals and terrorists.
* Said, "I plead guilty to being a moderate."
* Said that Bill would be her adviser, and represent US around the world. [CLEAR moderate]
* Is sincerely religious.
* Said, Have faith in God, in our country, and in each other....Faith is not just something to cling to in hard times....I have always felt the presence of God in my life." Favorite Bible story: Purim story of Esther. etc. etc.
* Believes millionaires should pay 30% tax rate instead of 0%-10%. [30% is below even what George W. Bush did in tax cuts for the rich]
* Pledged for no increase in middle class taxes.
* Thinks we should perhaps raise capital gains tax, but at most to 20%. [20%!]

Quote: SOOPOO

Is there any forum member that does not think that Hilary Clinton will be the next President?

It's definitely possible. She could get indicted over the email issue. Or if Cruz gets the nomination at a contested convention, he has a real shot against her. Here's how he's done against her historically in the polls.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

You really think I would vote for her, based on everything I've said? I would say something about your reading comprehension, but I got in trouble the last time I went that route.

No idea what you have said, I have been on a break here the last few months as the board got too far left on political posts and no listening to reason on everything from gay marriage to global warming. So had a little strike.

I am not going to bother going point by point on what appears a cut and paste list. But you should look closer. She flipped on the Iraq war and PATRIOT Act. She flipped on gay marriage. She was against the Bush tax cuts. She believes in global warming.

Her saying she is a pleads guilty to being a moderate is about as useful as me pleading guilty to dating Lori Grunier. At best she acts moderate to fool fools into thinking she is one.

But anyway, which of the following about Hillary are the liberal ones?

* Wants to "pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget."
* Protect next generation by paying off national debt.
* Voted to limit credit card interest to 30%. (30%! Not much of a limit.)
* Opposed gay marriage
* Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning.
* Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping.
* Was rated rated only 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record.
* In an OpEd, disagreed with progressives on corporatism & military.
* Was rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record.
* Is a longtime advocate of death penalty.
* Supports “Three Strikes” and more prison.
* Failed to initially oppose the Keystone pipeline.
* Advocates a cap and trade system. [definitely the moderate position, compared to a carbon tax]
* Voted for Bush's Patriot Act.
* Voted for Bush's Gulf War.
* Advocated military intervention in Libya.
* Believes that Medicare-for-all is not economically feasible.
* Says that her priorities are to deport criminals and terrorists.
* Said, "I plead guilty to being a moderate."
* Said that Bill would be her adviser, and represent US around the world. [CLEAR moderate]
* Is sincerely religious.
* Said, Have faith in God, in our country, and in each other....Faith is not just something to cling to in hard times....I have always felt the presence of God in my life." Favorite Bible story: Purim story of Esther. etc. etc.
* Believes millionaires should pay 30% tax rate instead of 0%-10%. [30% is below even what George W. Bush did in tax cuts for the rich]
* Pledged for no increase in middle tax taxes.
* Thinks we should perhaps raise capital gains tax, but at most to 20%. [20%!]

It's definitely possible. She could get indicted over the email issue. Or if Cruz gets the nomination at a contested convention, he has a real shot against her. Here's how he's done against her historically in the polls.

Ted Cruz dropped out.

Liberals everywhere are celebrating: Donald J Trump, the man hated by 70% of women, will be the Republican nominee.

Quote: SOOPOO

Is there any forum member that does not think that Hilary Clinton will be the next President?

Put me in that camp.

Carly Fiorina shot down again.

I'll take 8-5 on trump for any non sock puppet member here over 6 months

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I'll take 8-5 on trump for any non sock puppet member here over 6 months

To win the General election? Are you aware the BetFair odds are:

Clinton: -250
Trump: +280

Odds converted to American format. I know that looks like one could arbitrage it, but there is still a chance other people could win.

Yes I am aware I'm giving up some- I bet trump months ago to win the nomination and also to win overall at way bigger odds so I'm giving some back for fun here- no HUUUUGEEEEE wagers

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I'll take 8-5 on trump for any non sock puppet member here over 6 months

I'll lay $160 to win $100 on Trump not winning

Tom I'll take 80- 50

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Tom I'll take 80- 50

It's a bet

Locked in

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Well, since you mentioned Gilbert Gottfried, check out my outgoing voicemail message.

Getting back on topic (and apologies if this has been posted but I missed it in the hundreds of pages here), BOTH Clinton and Trump are viewed as unfavorable by most of the electorate. Given that we have a system where most people don't like either of our probable two choices for president, I think we can safely conclude that American democracy is broken.

Yea, I'm back my far left friend.....Or is it there isn't someone who makes people like you happy?

You obviously know how I see you and I understand how you see me.

So explain to me what is wrong with the options we have as the voting public.

Remember there will be other crazy options on the ballot.

As far as I can see there is nothing that doesn't allow you to vote for any of them, or write in your choice of who you think should be President.

Perhaps even a nude hippie.

Or is a system where "American democracy is broken"????????

Quote: Wizard

To win the General election? Are you aware the BetFair odds are:

Clinton: -250
Trump: +280

Odds converted to American format. I know that looks like one could arbitrage it, but there is still a chance other people could win.

How much could be had on that?

Kasich is calling it quits today....

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Carly could still be picked as a running mate for another candidate, yes or no?

No.

Thinking Trump/Kasich vs Hillary/Deval Patrick

Quote: Boz

As far as I can see there is nothing that doesn't allow you to vote for any of them, or write in your choice of who you think should be President.

Nevada state law specifically and pointedly prohibits any and all write-in votes.

Quote: Tanko

Thinking Trump/Kasich vs Hillary/Deval Patrick

If Trump picks a woman, how much would that repair his low standing among women voters? If he picks an African-American, how much of traditionally-Democrat black voters could he siphon away?

While Trump is certainly the underdog, President Trump is not an extreme longshot. He's 6.5 points behind Clinton now, but at one point he was only 0.8 points behind, and anything can happen between now and November. If he won the states that Romney took and then just a handful of swing states, he could pull it off.

I'm wondering whether he would be as bad as Bush. Some of his ideas are worse, sure, but I wouldn't expect Congress to be very accommodating about his agenda, which would limit the damage.

Here in Texas, it doesn't really matter for whom I vote because it's never close. (Republicans get 60-something percent.) But I wonder whether it'll be different this year, because everything's different this year.

BTW, the fact that the votes aren't close in most states, and that it's a winner-take-all system, is the main thing wrong with the electoral system. The candidates don't care about the states in which they have solid leads, so those states get ignored. I can't imagine that the electorate is thrilled that their votes are trivialized.

OK, here's a plan.
OK, not really a plan, more of a concept.
OK, not really a concept, more of a (well, ya know, 2F wrote it ;-)

Run Trump / Walker, win in a landslide.
Take 30 days, put together a 90 day plan to 'make this country great again'.
Buy off any opposition with big enuf balls to oppose, or they vanish, whichever is less expensive.
Enact "The Plan".

Trump resigns, puts the "Plan" in the capable hands of Walker.

Trump announces , I'm moving to Russia, I'm gonna take down Putin and make 'The World Great Again'.
'Have you seen the crowds in the streets?' 'They love me in Russia'.

Ten billion goes a long way over there ;-)

If Hillary were to really game Trump in the general, she would pick Colin Powell or Condi Rice. Landslide.

Quote: beachbumbabs

If Hillary were to really game Trump in the general, she would pick Colin Powell or Condi Rice. Landslide.

It's easy to imagine her doing something like that. And if she does, I'll rest my case about her being a moderate. Certainly no Republican would ever cross party lines for a VP pick, and probably not even a cabinet position. (Obama did so many times with his cabinet, a fact that Republicans conveniently ignore when blaming Obama for supposedly being a divider who never reaches across the aisle.)

There's all this chatter on TV today about Trump potentially picking Newt Gingrich as his VP.

Seriously?

It's like they're trying to lose in a landslide.

Quote: ams288

There's all this chatter on TV today about Trump potentially picking Newt Gingrich as his VP.

Seriously?

It's like they're trying to lose in a landslide.

Trump has been a Manchurian candidate all along, that doesn't mean his ego didn't override "the plan".

The people on the Left say they're 'giddy'
with happiness today, Trump won. He's
the easiest to beat for Hill, they say.

Really? The Clinton campaign, not a super
pac, spent over $5 mil on Trump attack ads,
more than any other candidate. Do you do
that to people you claim you WANT to run
against? Heck no you don't, you spend zero
money on them.

If she spent more than anybody else, it means
she DOES NOT want to run against him. She
knows he'll embarrass her, get in her face,
bring up every subject in her past she wants
to avoid. It's an uphill battle for her now. If
she can avoid being indicted, that is. It's always
something if your name is Clinton.

Maybe the Republicans are just getting themselves set up for a 3rd party run.