2016 Election

Quote: Mooseton

Lolololol! What a hoot!
Are you freaking serious?
.
.
.
Whew!
OMG. Please, keep this going.

My guess is Trump eventually will yield to public opinion/pressure to release his tax because there are voters who will raise the issue of tax evasion/fraud and result in skeptical views about his honesty & integrity.

Trump would be a total IDIOT (assuming there is nothing in his tax return that could hurt him) for not releasing his tax if there is strong NEGATIVE public opinion about his not releasing the income tax return

It is smart for Trump not releasing his tax return if there is a "bombshell" in it. Conversely, he is a total idiot if his tax return has no "bombshell" in it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-tax-rate-none-business-133201644.html#

I thought 'crooked' was a distinct anatomical reference to Bill.
Squirrelly is a term I like. Squirrelly Hillary works for me....

Quote: 777

My guess is Trump eventually will yield to public opinion/pressure to release his tax because there are voters who will raise the issue of tax evasion/fraud and result in skeptical views about his honesty & integrity.

Trump would be a total IDIOT (assuming there is nothing in his tax return that could hurt him) for not releasing his tax if there is strong NEGATIVE public opinion about his not releasing the income tax return

It is smart for Trump not releasing his tax return if there is a "bombshell" in it. Conversely, he is a total idiot if his tax return has no "bombshell" in it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-tax-rate-none-business-133201644.html#

He will never release his tax returns. Guaranteed.

Quote: ams288

He will never release his tax returns. Guaranteed.

I suspect there is something of significant “negative” or “bombshell” values in Trump’s tax returns, and therefore; for Trump’s not releasing his tax returns is a wise political move. And I consider Trump a total IDIOT for not releasing his tax return if there is nothing of significant negative/bombshell values in them.

What bother me is that many of Trump supporters vehemently demand Obama releasing his birth certificate, and these same people are o.k. with Trumps’ not releasing his tax return.

Quote: 777

What bother me is that many of Trump supporters vehemently demand Obama releasing his birth certificate, and these same people are o.k. with Trumps’ not releasing his tax return.

Totally agree
The difference between me and conservatives
Me- If somebody does something wrong, I speak out regardless if the person is on the right or left
Conservative - They cant decide if somebody has done something wrong unless they know the persons politics.

I don't know!.... (Imagine that).
There do seem to be some rules and regs about qualifications to run for POTUS.
I don't remember 'tax returns' mentioned..... (Or good hair;-)

Maybe 'cause they hadn't invented the tax code yet?
Minor oversight. (major undersight ;-?

It is cramped under the fridge....

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I don't know!.... (Imagine that).
There do seem to be some rules and regs about qualifications to run for POTUS.
I don't remember 'tax returns' mentioned.....

Maybe 'cause they hadn't invented the tax code yet?
Minor oversight. (major undersight ;-?

It is cramped under the fridge....

The only "rules and regs" is the Constitution requirement regarding age, residency and citizenship.

Tax return is a "political" requirement in a vetting process that would aid voters in judging a candidate conflict of interest, honest, and integrity. You don't need to release tax return in applying for a busboy, CPA or other less glamour jobs. But for the POTUS position ...

Quote: 777

Tax return is a "political" requirement in a vetting process that would aid voters in judging a candidate conflict of interest, honest, and integrity.

We don't need anything but Trump's word that he's a great guy.

(sarcasm)

Quote: rxwine

We don't need anything but Trump's word that he's a great guy.

He's tremendous, a really very great guy. I have a lot of friends who call me, they call me and they say "you know, Trump is really great. He's great." And then you have the press, the media with their lies and stories and everything else, and look at the news, okay? It's horrible, it's a big problem. Now, if you remember how they treated Trump, how Megyn Kelly treated Trump, it's very unfair. But they're losers and they're not going to win, Donald Trump is going to win, and he's going to make America great again.

Quote: 777

Tax return is a "political" requirement in a vetting process that would aid voters in judging a candidate conflict of interest, honest, and integrity..

I got no problem with any of that.
Which once again brings us back to Hillary ;-)

Quote: terapined

??
The answer is obvious
Tax evasion
Tax fraud
Hel's afraid to release his taxes

Do you have evidence that he has been audited or otherwise to suggest fraud? Guys at his level get audited pretty often so your point is a bit hard to believe. He probably gets the super-audit that NYS gives to most rich folks so it seems like that would have come up if he was cheating and they would have called the IRS.

Why hasn't anyone brought up how we literally had this same conversation 4 years ago with mittens and Dirty Harry? Is there any difference? Only thing I recall was Dirty Harry saying he had a 'source' that knew mittens was hiding something big. And of course all the left ate it up. Also, of course, he didn't have squat as nothing happened, no investigation or anything at all really(IIRC). Didn't matter. Dirty Harry still got to smear him as the crooked rich white guy (he should look in the mirror on that one) during election season to the mostly colored base.

Quote: Mooseton

Why hasn't anyone brought up how we literally had this same conversation 4 years ago with mittens and Dirty Harry? Is there any difference? Only thing I recall was Dirty Harry saying he had a 'source' that knew mittens was hiding something big. And of course all the left ate it up. Also, of course, he didn't have squat as nothing happened, no investigation or anything at all really(IIRC). Didn't matter. Dirty Harry still got to smear him as the crooked rich white guy (he should look in the mirror on that one) during election season to the mostly colored base.

And Mitt just stood there and took it, something Trump is less far likely to do. Democrats do pull the same attacks over and over. Ask about Whitewater and it somehow does not matter, make up a charge and the GOP has to drop everything and spend a week denying it.

Quote: AZDuffman

And Mitt just stood there and took it, something Trump is less far likely to do. Democrats do pull the same attacks over and over.

Well there are two options: stand there and take it or actually release the returns.

John Miller Trump isn't ever going to release his returns, so he's gonna have to take it like Mitt did.

Quote: AZDuffman

Democrats do pull the same attacks over and over. .

Huh?
Dems have never been able to attack a repub due to taxes because they all have nothing to hide
Except John Miller aka Donald
Dems have never been able to attack a repub because he pretends to be somebody else
except Donald Trump aka John Miller
Dems have never attacked a repub over something as absurd a border wall paid for by Mexico
except John Miller aka Trump making these pie in the sky absurd promises
Try again

Has Trump released his long-form birth certificate?

Quote: Dalex64

Has Trump released his long-form birth certificate?

Yes. And Trump's long-form birth certificate shown him as John Miller, 7.5 pounds & 20.16 inches long, and he was born in the same hospital in Nigeria where President Obama was born.

Quote: Dalex64

Has Trump released his long-form birth certificate?

Google search shows he did in 2013 to answer a challenge of Bill Maher.

Quote: AZDuffman

Google search shows he did in 2013 to answer a challenge of Bill Maher.

It would be hilarious if someone do a parody of Trump's birth certificate by just changing the Donald Trump name to John Miller.

Quote: AZDuffman

Google search shows he did in 2013 to answer a challenge of Bill Maher.

That was the short form. As of 2015, he was refusing to release the long form. You know, the one he demanded Obama release. Obama eventually did.

Quote: 777

It would be hilarious if someone do a parody of Trump's birth certificate by just changing the Donald Trump name to John Miller.

The John Miller thing is just too much comedy fodder to go away soon.

Quote: rxwine

The John Miller thing is just too much comedy fodder to go away soon.

It's crazy.

He's ADMITTED it was him before! He apologized to the People Magazine reporter....

Today: it's not me. It doesn't sound like me.

And he sends out his communications people to say it doesn't sound like him.

I just had a thought that Hillary is going to pick Romney for VP. And he's going to agree.

Quote: rxwine

The John Miller thing is just too much comedy fodder to go away soon.

I have to imagine Saturday nite live is going to be all over this
Trump is just gold for comedy writers

Quote: rxwine

I just had a thought that Hillary is going to pick Romney for VP. And he's going to agree.

Show Spoiler

Pretty sure the GOP would totally disintegrate in a massive head exploding event. A lot of dems would be upset, but it might be worth it just to see the rightwing start pulling their hair out and screaming.

You know, he seems pretty sensible compared to Trump or Cruz as President.

Today on one of the cable shows one of those "Game Change" guys was predicting that she was going to choose a conservative woman as her VP. I was like..... Huh?!?!

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

IIt is cramped under the fridge....

Did you get stuck there trying to remove the lint?

Quote: AZDuffman

Do you have evidence that he has been audited or otherwise to suggest fraud? Guys at his level get audited pretty often so your point is a bit hard to believe. He probably gets the super-audit that NYS gives to most rich folks so it seems like that would have come up if he was cheating and they would have called the IRS.

I would bet he hasn't even seen his return in a long time other than maybe to sign it.

If I were him, I wouldn't show my trade secrets either. Why should he? I think next years might be more interesting. Do candidates still get matching funds?

Quote: petroglyph

I would bet he hasn't even seen his return in a long time other than maybe to sign it.

If I were him, I wouldn't show my trade secrets either. Why should he? I think next years might be more interesting. Do candidates still get matching funds?

They get matching funds in the general, which if I recall were too good for even Obama to pass up, though he did pass on them in the primary.

As to the tax return, he should and may use it as a bargaining chip to get released all of the return of the Clinton Foundation, something Hillary for sure would never want to do.

Quote: AZDuffman

They get matching funds in the general, which if I recall were too good for even Obama to pass up, though he did pass on them in the primary.

As to the tax return, he should and may use it as a bargaining chip to get released all of the return of the Clinton Foundation, something Hillary for sure would never want to do.

John MillerTrump won't be able to use his taxes as a bargaining chip.

It is not required by law to release them, but all Presidential candidates do. To not release them is an indication he's hiding something YUUUGE. Hillary and the Dems will pound him all year if he doesn't.

The "I'm being audited" excuse is B.S. and everyone knows that.

Quote: AZDuffman

As to the tax return, he should and may use it as a bargaining chip to get released all of the return of the Clinton Foundation, something Hillary for sure would never want to do.

Bargaining chip?
The reason candidates release taxes is to show the people they are honest and have nothing to hide.
Its a tactic to get votes. People vote for candidates they trust. Presidential candidates know this
If John Miller chooses not to release his taxes that's his right
Its also the right of voters to consider that John Miller is not being completely honest and open and therefore not vote for him.

Quote: ams288

John MillerTrump won't be able to use his taxes as a bargaining chip.

It is not required by law to release them, but all Presidential candidates do. To not release them is an indication he's hiding something YUUUGE. Hillary and the Dems will pound him all year if he doesn't.

The "I'm being audited" excuse is B.S. and everyone knows that.

Apparently this tradition started in 1952, when Richard Nixon challenged his democratic opponents to release their tax returns. They did, but Nixon did not.

So the tradition and hypocracy of demanding records such as tax documents and birth records of democrats, them complying, and then refusing to do so themselves, has been a republican tradition for over 60 years.

Everyone should either release this sort of document without complaining or feet-dragging or excuses, or the two parties should agree and release a joint statement that no one has to do it any more.

Quote: TwoFeathersATL
IIt is cramped under the fridge....

Quote: petroglyph

Did you get stuck there trying to remove the lint?

I AM the lint.
Just lint avoiding the landfill,
By hiding under the fridge ;-)

Quote: MathExtremist

He's tremendous, a really very great guy. I have a lot of friends who call me, they call me and they say "you know, Trump is really great. He's great." And then you have the press, the media with their lies and stories and everything else, and look at the news, okay? It's horrible, it's a big problem. Now, if you remember how they treated Trump, how Megyn Kelly treated Trump, it's very unfair. But they're losers and they're not going to win, Donald Trump is going to win, and he's going to make America great again.

Show Spoiler

Yes, that was also sarcasm. I just watched this video analyzing Trump's speech patterns. How'd I do?

In this CNN report, you can hear John Miller also say good thing about Trump. http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/13/politics/donald-trump-recording-john-miller-barron-fake-press/

A quick internet search for John Miller results in many listings on Donald Trump. In Trump's world, anyone whose name is John Miller certainly can file defamation lawsuit against Trump.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=john+miller







https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=john+miller

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Quote: TwoFeathersATL
IIt is cramped under the fridge....


I AM the lint.
Just lint avoiding the landfill,
By hiding under the fridge ;-)

Good trick

It has not been a good couple of days for John MillerTrump.

His taxes.
His treasonous butler.
John Miller.
And now this New York Times article detailing his creepy behavior with various women in his life:

http://nyti.ms/24RqHYi

Quote: ams288

It has not been a good couple of days for John MillerTrump.

His taxes.
His treasonous butler.
John Miller.
And now this New York Times article detailing his creepy behavior with various women in his life:

http://nyti.ms/24RqHYi

Below is an excerpt from the comment section of the NY Times' John Miller article (comment made by reader Nuschler):

Every one of Trump's low class no education male supporters LOVE these stories! "Wow--he can have ANY woman he wants..and he has the best looking women--all tens with great t*** and a**!!"

And the woman who support him? The dream of having this POWERFUL man desire them..."Take your clothes off honey" is something THEY want to hear! Oh Donald thinks I'm great looking--OOH!!"

Edit #1 to add another comment by reader Claudia Piepenburg:

Trump is a misogynistic sociopath; that Republican 'leaders' (the word is used loosely in this case) are coming around to accepting him is revolting. The photo of Trump with his 15-year old daughter on his lap is disgustingly similar to the pic of Gary Hart and Donna Rice. I am ashamed for my country that over 10 million people have voted for this vile, reprehensible excuse for a husband, father, employer, friend and man.


Edit #2 to add another comment by reader Coolhunter:

Sleazy is to kind a word to describe what Trump is all about. Those that vote for him will have a lot of explaining to do to their children. Voting for Trump, the ultimate 'dirty old man', tells you the actual voters, angry white men, envy his behavior.


Edit #3 to add another comment by reader Freedom Furgle:

I sometimes wonder what Trump looks like right after he gets out of the shower. I would figure he has a doughy body and very long hair - easily touching his shoulders - at least on the sides and back of his head, and a very large bald spot on top. It's an image I find somehow...creepy.
It's amazing to me that this man would have the sheer chutzpah to ever comment on any woman's looks. Really. And yet I know several several strong, independent women who support him. One of them actually told me she thinks he's good looking. I am now convinced she is either blind or insane. And I know for a fact she isn't blind.

Edit #4 to add another comment by reader Christine McMorrow:

I found this article as profoundly disturbing as I do the man himself--not for the behavior per se, but because this man has the potential, even the likelihood, of becoming our next President.

There are lots of men who treat women like this, always have been, always will be. But to think this is the kind of character voters would elect to the highest office in the world, is nothing short of amazing.

Whether it's his policies, his background, or his relationships with women, the man is unfit for office. I wish voters would be less concerned about his celebrity, money, and glamour (such as it is), and really think long and hard about who they want in that office.

President Obama could not have said it better: The Presidency is not some sort of reality show. Entertainers entertain, leaders govern.

Mr. Trump has shown no capacity to "govern" in the traditional sense of the word, whether it's curbing his appetites or working with a good sense of US history and our constitution.


Edit #5 to add another comment by reader Christine Trillian:

His supporters don't care. They. Don't. Care.

The only true thing Trump ever said was that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and people would still vote for him.

I can't figure it out.


Edit #6 to add another comment by reader Sven Gall:

I like Trump!
He's great and I'm voting for him along with a billion others.
November we win! No party holds on for 3 terms so we win we win!
Go TRUMP!


Edit #7 to add another comment by reader Pat Boice:

NO!!! We cannot let this immature buffoon humiliate the U.S./us to the world!


Edit #8 to add another comment by reader Anne:

This was interesting. I draw some conclusions from it- creepy ones. What sticks in my mind mostly about Trump though are his comments on Mexicans and Muslims in the US -and how articles like this ( and it is a good article) will be seen as positive by Trump supporters. Trump's popularity has upended my view of Americans. It scares me .


Edit #9 to add another comment by reader MK:

It is difficult enough raising two young girls in this social-media-oriented, sensationalistic society - that I dare not imagine the difficulty explaining to my daughters how such a proven misogynist and bully could be ever so close to the Presidency.


Edit #10 to add another comment by reader Tom:

I laugh out loud when a Trump supporter tries to convince me that Bill Clinton is evil incarnate around women, their candidate is not a misogynist and ignore my question about their support for a candidate that is pro choice (depending on which day it is).


Edit #11 to add another comment by reader steve:

A significant amount of this behavior would be actionable under the sexual harassment policies of almost any for profit or non-profit organization in America. If he worked in my institution he would be fired for cause.

And this is the man many Americans wish to be President of the United States.

He is simply, utterly, disgusting.


Edit #12 to add another comment by reader D.A.Oh (in response to reader Dad whose comment is "Worse than JFK? Bill Clinton? Not even close"):

Have you not heard about how the Trump raped his first wife?

Or how he said he was sexually attracted to then 12-year old Paris Hilton, right before volunteering how he enjoyed her illegally distributed sex-tape with Melania?

Or how, when asked of his 18-month old daughter's finest attributes, he immediately declared that he hoped she'd have her mother's breasts?

The man is either sick or hopelessly crude. Seemingly both. JFK and Clinton, for their faults were at least loved and respected. The Trump is a dog with a golden collar and no leash.


Edit #13 to add another comment by reader ALB:

Actually, a lot of this was well-known "local" news around NYC back in the day. "The Donald" and his exploits were often in the paper. It wasn't really international news or international concern; it wasn't as important as it is now. Now he is running for President. Then he was just a wealthy jerk with an oversized ego who changed girlfriends and wives as often as he changed his clothes, and built glass boxes trimmed in gold with his name plastered across the front.


Edit #14 to add another comment by reader MoneyRules:

The fact that he is the GOP nominee is not a reflection of him -- clearly Trump is being himself as he always says. That he may become President says more about the country, our dumbed down citizenry, and yes, the media's constant pornification of women.


Edit #15 to add another comment by reader MichaelJ:

Just the thought that this vulgar, hateful man is the Republicans' choice to run for President says it all. Whether or not the Donald wins is immaterial. Never in my wildest dreams would I have predicted a person as unqualified to be president as Trump could get the nomination of a major party. Remember, after Trump is gone, all the people who actually voted for this man will still be here.


Edit #16 to add another comment by reader Rob:

There are not enough denigrating words to describe this embarrassment of a "man" who doesn't know the difference between the truth and a lie. And I blame the press for giving him so much free coverage. He's a spoiled brat who treats people like objects and obviously has no conscience. I pray he disappears forever after Hillary stomps him


Edit #17 to add another comment by reader Richard:

It would be far preferable to this registered independent voter (who generally votes for the Democrats) to give Richard M. Nixon a shot at redemption than to see Donald Trump sitting in the Oval Office for one day.


Edit #18 to add another comment by reader Nick K:

To call Trump an infantile egomaniac obsessed with the female beauty would be fair. More so, he is an insecure sycophant who craves attention.


Edit #19 to add another comment by reader Andy Hain:

DJT will certainly not be the first President of the USA with those character traits. As a matter of fact, they just might have been a job requirement. Time for a woman in this most powerful position, indeed.


Edit #20 to add another comment by reader GiGi:

None of this will hurt Trump. It is likely that most of his male supporters admire his machismo and would emulate it if they could. Lots of his female supporters would have been happy to be a Trump girl friend. Demeaning behavior would just have been part of the deal.


Edit #21 to add another comment by reader Rick Gage:

Boy, this takes a major arrow from the Republican quiver. If they can, no longer, claim some higher standard of (false) religious moral standing when it comes to their Republican brand, they'll have to come up with actual ideas for governing. No wonder the establishment is torn. This candidate will drag their party down long after he leaves the stage. From this point forward whenever they point a finger at a Democratic politician we can just play the Trump card. If Sarah Palin made them the party of stupid, this guy makes them the party of the soulless. And to the 20-30% of women who still back him, show a little respect for yourself and your gender.


Edit #22 to add another comment by reader JustWondering:

There is a real level of desperation showing in Trump supporters in this comment thread. The more Trump is examined the more things are found that make him a terrifying prospect as President. Perhaps "President Trump" as an adult cartoon would be appropriate, but as an actual POTUS no. That he would have even broached the idea of asking holders of U.S. bonds to take less shows the monumental degree of ignorance he has. His behavior toward women shows something even darker.


Edit #23 to add another comment by reader violetsmart:

Trump is so like former Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi. Same syndrome. He drove italy into virtual bankruptcy during his 20 years in power, but he always had gorgeous young women as cabinet ministers. I could not believe that Italians would vote for such a hoax, but they did and it appears that Americans are no more discerning. What a nightmare, not only for the USA, but for the world!


Edit #24 to add another comment by reader Mountain Dragonfly:

And this is the man who wants to blame Hillary for her husband's escapades? Despite Bill's wandering eyes (and other parts, I don't remember when all was exposed that he did anything that the women did not allow, nor did he humiliate them. And Hillary, while I am not crazy about her as a candidate, is NOT the one who strayed. Every time there is another article about Trump in the news, I shiver. Too many voters seem taken with him...I guess he represents what they wish they could do and get away with, as he seemingly has. Doesn't say much about our country, does it?


Edit #25 to add another comment by reader Ron S:

The mystery is not Donald Trump. We have ample evidence about who he is. The mystery is that there are many American men and women who support his run for the Presidency. If he is elected, they will deserve what they get; an ill informed self serving narcissist who is not fit to be President.

Quote: Dalex64

Apparently this tradition started in 1952, when Richard Nixon challenged his democratic opponents to release their tax returns. They did, but Nixon did not.

Where did you get that information?

Nixon was the first Presidential candidate to release his tax returns.

It started with Nixon.

President Tax Returns

Well...

Quote:

Nixon released his returns even though he was under audit. Ultimately, the audit didn’t go well for him– it was unpleasant, embarrassing, and ultimately very expensive.

So Nixon released them under audit. Interesting.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2016/04/05/donald-trump-wont-release-his-tax-returns-while-under-audit-but-richard-nixon-did/2/#4f3b511f59ef

Quote: Tanko

Where did you get that information?

Nixon was the first Presidential candidate to release his tax returns.

It started with Nixon.

President Tax Returns

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/16/presidential-candidates-have-long-history-of-releasing-tax-returns/

Says he did not release his tax returns until he was president.

In 1952, he got his opponents to release theirs but did not release his own at that time.

Quote: Dalex64

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/16/presidential-candidates-have-long-history-of-releasing-tax-returns/

Says he did not release his tax returns until he was president.

In 1952, he got his opponents to release theirs but did not release his own at that time.

The article does not suggest that Nixon asked Stevenson and Sparkman to release their tax forms.

He never asked them to do that.

Nixon went on television in 1952 and disclosed his financial information before a national audience.

The "Checker's" speech was a hit with the public, so Nixon challenged Stevenson and Sparkman to follow his lead and release their financial information as he did.

Stevenson apparently didn't have a pup, so he and Sparkman chose to release their tax forms instead.

Quote:

Everyone should either release this sort of document without complaining or feet-dragging or excuses, or the two parties should agree and release a joint statement that no one has to do it any more.

All Presidential candidates are required by law to submit a financial disclosure report to the Federal Election Commission within thirty days of announcing their candidacy.

Trump Financial Disclosure

I just hope that all of those whiny, insane, evil leftists don't scurry and slither up here north of the border after Trump wins the election in November, hey hey.

The insanity of entrenched politicians....Republicans, like Democrats, are facing a huge rebellion against "politics as usual" among their party members and independents--as shown by the successful candidacy of Trump and the rise of Bernie Sanders.

The entrenched Republicans answer to this rebellion. Of course--exactly--we shall find out why people think we aren't serving them well and make the party better.

Nope...we'd rather be stuck on stupid and run a guaranteed to lose "Real Republican" like Mitt Romney. Yes, the guy who couldn't defeat a weakened President Obama in 2012.

It is amazing how much the establishment cares about, well, staying established!!

The rules of the Democrat party practical hand the nomination to Clinton. That is fair, or course, because no one changed the rules to make the outcome different coming into this election cycle. They are simply following established rules. Perhaps they should change them. That is up to them. If it weren't for those rules, we could have two outsiders running.

...and the establishment still refuses to listen. A Romney (or some other jackass) run practically guarantees Clinton three to four Supremes...

Quote: RonC

The insanity of entrenched politicians....Republicans, like Democrats, are facing a huge rebellion against "politics as usual" among their party members and independents--as shown by the successful candidacy of Trump and the rise of Bernie Sanders.

The entrenched Republicans answer to this rebellion. Of course--exactly--we shall find out why people think we aren't serving them well and make the party better.

All the focus on Trump masks that the Democrats have near as huge a problem for the same reasons. Remember, in 2008 they wanted to hand it to Hillary same as today, until Obama threw a Monkey Wrench into the plans. Remember also that then Obama was an outsider candidate running as an unabashed liberal. It isn't conservatives sick of business as usual, it is a huge part of the USA.

Quote:

Nope...we'd rather be stuck on stupid and run a guaranteed to lose "Real Republican" like Mitt Romney. Yes, the guy who couldn't defeat a weakened President Obama in 2012.

It is amazing how much the establishment cares about, well, staying established!!

Because their lives do not change if they win or lose. Go to the country club in your Mercedes; have lunch at the trendy place; cocktail party and dinner with the power brokers; then home to the brownstone in Georgetown. Wake up and do it all again. In fall spend Sunday in a box at the Redskins game, in summer at the Nationals. Lobbyists pay tribute to keep your ear then leave and pay the same tribute to the other family. All the while you as kingmaker shake down the people in your party for money and favors they owe because you make them. Trump has the power to not take your phone calls. That to them is more scary than 9 Ginsbergs on the Supremes.

Trump is leading Hillary in the two latest polls. "President Trump" -- get used to hearing those two words together. It could happen.

Quote: Wizard

That is risking getting off topic, but I just said "win."

Well, he didn't really win. He was essentially *appointed*.

Quote: Wizard

I don't wish to get into it, but I think the Bush camp has their complaints as well, like the Gore side fighting to not count military votes on technicalities in the recount.

Given that the (illegal) military ballots *were* counted (and they decided the election), so what?

"After the election was certified, however, the New York Times conducted a six-month investigation, during which it retrieved the envelopes in which the ballots were mailed and searched for violations of the law.¹ In one of the longest sets of articles ever published by the Times, the news organization concluded that 680 of the overseas absentee ballots that had been counted by Florida counties unambiguously violated one or more aspects of Florida election law and, by any reasonable interpretation of the law, should have been discarded. Indeed, after the Times story appeared, commentators and partisans from both sides accepted these factual claims.²" Harvard Symposium

Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I'd argue that in 2000, the more charismatic candidate (Bush) didn't actually win; the election was stolen through fraud. Even before considering voter suppression, it's indisputable that he got fewer votes than Gore.

"A comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots from last year's presidential election reveals that George W. Bush would have won even if the United States Supreme Court had allowed the statewide manual recount of the votes that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to go forward.

"Contrary to what many partisans of former Vice President Al Gore have charged, the United States Supreme Court did not award an election to Mr. Bush that otherwise would have been won by Mr. Gore. A close examination of the ballots found that Mr. Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida court's order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been reversed by the United States Supreme Court." The New York Tmes

Quote:

About Trump, his charisma is relative. Women are far more likely to find him creepy than charismatic.

And that is based on . . .

Posts, except the one above, about the 2000 election were split off to DANGLING CHADS -- FRAUD IN THE 2000 ELECTION.

Due to the length of this thread, it took a long time to split-off, and the post above was made during the process. SanchoPanza, can I trouble you to please re-post the above in the new thread?

Speaking of the length of this thread, I'd like to close it and start a part 2 for the topic. Can I get anybody to second that? Objections?

Quote: Wizard

Posts, except the one above, about the 2000 election were split off to DANGLING CHADS -- FRAUD IN THE 2000 ELECTION.

Due to the length of this thread, it took a long time to split-off, and the post above was made during the process. SanchoPanza, can I trouble you to please re-post the above in the new thread?

Speaking of the length of this thread, I'd like to close it and start a part 2 for the topic. Can I get anybody to second that? Objections?

I hope we can stop going off topic for so long and causing you guys that much work.

I'm fine with a new "part 2"--that may even make it easier if we go off on a tangent.

Some warnings for going too far astray or quicker splits might help...but please not suspensions!!

No second needed. If thread length makes it too cumbersome for you moderators, then of course start new thread.

Quote: soxfan

I just hope that all of those whiny, insane, evil leftists don't scurry and slither up here north of the border after Trump wins the election in November, hey hey.

Build a wall. Let Fort Erie/Niagara Falls be an imperial free zone so we can still visit.