Decision 2012

Quote: rdw4potus

This is amazing. Romney is the more dynamic speaker. .

Romney is a more practiced extemporaneous speaker.
Obama is a better speech giver. Its obvious Romney
has a strong grasp on the subject matter and expresses
himself better. Obama has always been advertised as
the smartest person in the room. He sure fumbled and
bumbled a lot tonight if thats true.

Quote: EvenBob

Romney is a more practiced extemporaneous speaker.
Obama is a better speech giver. Its obvious Romney
has a strong grasp on the subject matter and expresses
himself better. Obama has always been advertised as
the smartest person in the room. He sure fumbled and
bumbled a lot tonight if thats true.

I'm watching the streaming NYT fact check stream (others don't seem to be in real-time. not sure what's with that...). It looks like Obama is stumbling in part to make sure that he's being accurate. NYT has many more false and half-truths for Romney than for the Big O.

That was fun and it went by so fast! I could watch Obama clean Romney's clock for another ninety minutes (just get rid of that cateract-man)

Minute 92. Debate over. Romney wins first 70 minutes. Obama wins last 22 minutes. Romney wins debate by decision. He tried to win by KO, but over-reached and gave Obama an opening to land some blows during the closing minutes.

Obama seemed flat, almost disinterested at times. Like
he'd rather be somewhere else.

Quote: EvenBob

Obama seemed flat, almost disinterested at times. Like
he'd rather be somewhere else.

Well, it IS his anniversary:-)

But I think he'd also like to say something else. he stayed completely away from 47%, Bain, Switzerland, basically all of the Romney hotbuttons. I guess he can sit back and see what this debate did to the numbers, then decide whether or not to fight back later. He'll do better governing in the Spring if he doesn't have to be an ass now.

Quote: EvenBob

Obama seemed flat, almost disinterested at times. Like
he'd rather be somewhere else.

I'm sure he would have wanted to be somewhere else.

Quote: EvenBob

Obama seemed flat, almost disinterested at times. Like
he'd rather be somewhere else.

Maybe he was thinking about that house he's going to buy in Hawaii because he's so far behind in the polling (giggle)

Probability of Reaching 270
Democrats 98%
Republicans 1%
Neither (Tie) < 1%

Obama was slow out of the gate. After that, Obama seemed comfortable for the rest of the debate.. Romney was continually more aggressive, but I question if Romney did any real damage. If he didn't, even a win on point making is a net zero gain as far as the long run. Definitely no knock out.

Quote: rxwine

but I question if Romney did any real damage. .

People don't watch these things, they're boring. Debates
seldom have any effect on elections. The only time they
do is if somebody really messes up and gives the other
side a soundbite they can use for the last 3 weeks.

Whats funny is, those close to Obama say the really thinks
he's an effective off the cuff speaker. Can you imagine the
ego he must have? He reminds me of a character in Catch 22.
One of the guys who drove Yossarian nuts because he was
so totally narcissistic.

The whole election boils down to are you a socialist or a fascist?

Quote: ncfatcat

The whole election boils down to are you a socialist or a fascist?

Thats just ridiculous.

The Moderator of the Debate absolutely sucked. I don't care if the participants are the President of the United States and the Republican Nominee, YOU manage the Debate, not them. Why are you going to have structure and Rules if you are not going to enforce them with an Iron Hand? I don't care if you have to blow a Klaxon or a chorus of Vuvuzelas to get them to shut up, they get their five seconds leeway, and then they shut their G*****n mouths, those are the Rules.

What you must do is penalize them (with five seconds leeway) for every second they go over on their time your opponent gets added to his next answer and you get subtracted from your next answer. Listen to that pathetic excuse for a Moderator waiting for the end of sentence and passively trying to cut in between words, he should be embarassed. "PRESIDENT OBAMA (OR MR. ROMNEY) YOU ARE NOW FINISHED SPEAKING. YOUR OPPONENT NOW HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS WHAT YOU SAID," that's the way it needs to be.

There are just people out there that have no idea how to exercise authority. YOU have authority over the President, in this scenario, use it!!!

Ridiculous.

I concur that Romney was stronger in the beginning and Obama finished better. Both did a good job of trying to appeal to swing states and segments of voters such as the Middle-Class, College-Age Kids, loved the nod to Ohio and the Elderly, acknowledge your base while trying to get people to jump on one side of the fence or the other, predictable and effective strategy. I would say the advantage Romney has was closer to 45min./45min. rather than 60min./30min., just because it was that midway point where you could tell the tide was starting to turn.

No surprise that Romney was more aggressive and Obama played it as clean as possible. It's not going to get nasty this early. Romney comes out swinging (albeit lightly) and Obama plays the Diplomat, see where the polls go, and Romney will become more aggressive (if the polls swing in his favor) at the same time Obama pulls out the big guns like Bain, 47%, etc... It will be the same thing if they stay the same. It's hard to tell what Romney will do if Obama's position is even stronger after this, as he was clearly more aggressive, probably have to just go through the motions and mail it in.

It was such a poorly Moderated Debate that it was tough to get much enjoyment out of it either way, though it was nice to hear a few specifics of the candidates plans...though very few still...for a change.

Overall Winner: Romney

Quote: EvenBob

The only time they
do is if somebody really messes up and gives the other
side a soundbite they can use for the last 3 weeks.

Actually, Romney may have done that. Turns out that companies, including many advised and invested in by Bain, really can deduct costs associated with location changes - including location changes to overseas destinations. So, when Romney says "I have no idea what you're talking about there..." it's a pretty big lie. It looked like it scored points for him during the debate, but now all someone has to do is find one connection to him or his former company and he's screwed.

Quote: Mission146

It was such a poorly Moderated Debate that it was tough to get much enjoyment out of it either way, though it was nice to hear a few specifics of the candidates plans...though very few still...for a change.

The politics of picking a moderator are pretty interesting. The networks don't want somebody else's anchor on their air, so they usually go to retired/retiring anchors or to PBS institutions like Mr. Lehrer. Candy Crowley (CNN) will probably be ok, and you could do worse than Bob Schieffer (CBS).

I'd love to see someone with a spine like Bill O'Reilly or Pierz Morgan moderate one of these debates, or someone with a personality like Anderson Cooper or Jon Stewart could moderate by making it into a 2 way interview with snark doled out for BS answers.

Quote: rdw4potus

but now all someone has to do is find one connection to him or his former company and he's screwed.

LOL! Whatever.. You give so much credit to minutia.
For the 100th time, none of this means anything.
When Joe Blow and Mrs Blow pull the curtain, all
they are thinking about is THEMSELVES! They only
care about how they and their fam is doing, not
about who said what or who won which debate.

You are way over thinking this. Under think it and
you're far closer to the truth.

Quote: EvenBob

You are way over thinking this. Under think it and
you're far closer to the truth.

LOL. That's what you were supposed to say before the debate when the outcome wasn't known. Your guy did well. Now you're supposed to be talking about how everything has changed. Didn't you get your new RNC talking points?

But seriously, you're the one who talked about the importance of going gaffe free. I'm just saying that such a gaffe may have happened.

Quote: Mission146

There are just people out there that have no idea how to exercise authority. YOU have authority over the President, in this scenario, use it!!!

Ridiculous.

Someone should be able to bang a counter top bell, or a gavel. But there's probably some formality or custom they follow, or I'd suggest a boxing ring bell, or a bullhorn, or a police whistle. Or all of them.

Quote: rdw4potus

I'm just saying that such a gaffe may have happened.

Thats not a gaffe. A lie, if it was one, is not a gaffe.
Gore in 2000, agreeing with everything Bush said,
and walking over to him, that was a gaffe. And Gore
still won the popular vote. A gaffe would be Obama
giving Romney the finger when he thought the camera
was off him. Or Romney using the F word a couple
times.

Quote: rdw4potus

The politics of picking a moderator are pretty interesting. The networks don't want somebody else's anchor on their air, so they usually go to retired/retiring anchors or to PBS institutions like Mr. Lehrer. Candy Crowley (CNN) will probably be ok, and you could do worse than Bob Schieffer (CBS).

I'd love to see someone with a spine like Bill O'Reilly or Pierz Morgan moderate one of these debates, or someone with a personality like Anderson Cooper or Jon Stewart could moderate by making it into a 2 way interview with snark doled out for BS answers.

The politics of picking a Moderator are patently ridiculous. The only necessity is that one select a Moderator who is not afraid to exercise authority over those who would typically have authority over him and who may be better speakers. The referee need not be (or have been) a better football player (or one at all) than the guys on the field, it is simply that he must know the sport and be willing to exercise the authority granted him by the stripes. The Moderator is there for only two purposes, to enforce the Rules and to try to manage the tempo of the Debate, it's not his job to call b***s*** (which Lehrer didn't) on anything that is said just to make sure that it gets said within time parameters and that the next question is reached in a timely fashion.

My personal opinion is that Anderson Cooper has as much personality as my left kneecap, and believe it or not, I'm a pretty quiet person in real life...but authoritative. There are those who enjoy Anderson Cooper, so my opinion is no more correct or incorrect than theirs, it is subjective. I consider the gentleman more of an actor than he is anything else. Jon Stewart is hilarious, but biased. Bill O'Reilly probably would be a good choice, in my opinion, provided he could keep his own mouth shut and opinions out of the Debate. There is no question, however, that he has a spine.

There are very few people that can speak with enough authority to either of those two man in a manner that is both dignified and commands a respect for the Rules that are in place. I'm personally having trouble thinking of any examples of people who would have been really good for this assignment, there are a few that have the personality, but I don't think they could keep their own biases out of it. Patrick Stewart would be excellent, dead serious.

Quote: rxwine

Someone should be able to bang a counter top bell, or a gavel. But there's probably some formality or custom they follow, or I'd suggest a boxing ring bell, or a bullhorn, or a police whistle. Or all of them.

Give them something that they cannot talk over for sure. They want to exercise the authority to keep talking, they'll talk over a gavel, take a stand and let them know it won't happen. I think a bell of some sort would be excellent, or vuvuzelas, the latter are so annoying how could one possibly even remember what he was saying?

It was odd watching King Obama having to stand there
and have somebody tell him to his face for an hour and
a half what a failure his presidency has been. Obama had
lots of pissed expressions, irritated, impatient. He doesn't
hear this from anybody in private and both him and his
wife never watch the news. He truly lives in a bubble.

Quote: RonC

The economy still sucks.

Obama killed my camel.

Obamacare took 700 billion from Medicare.

Obama killed my camel.

Obamacare costs way more than they said it would.

Obama killed my camel.

We haven't had a budget in years; even when the Democrats controlled both sides of Congress.

Obama killed my camel.

Yes, Bin Laden's dead. I am thankful for that. He did what had to be done.

That isn't a reason to vote for him (or anyone else)!!!

Camel is relevant.

That wasn't an exact quote from RonC. Camel.

Quote: EvenBob

It was odd watching King Obama having to stand there
and have somebody tell him to his face for an hour and
a half what a failure his presidency has been. Obama had
lots of pissed expressions, irritated, impatient. He doesn't
hear this from anybody in private and both him and his
wife never watch the news. He truly lives in a bubble.

I disagree with that. I think that his facial expressions were consistent with absorbing Romney's statements and attempting to formulate rebuttals. He did not appear at all agitated, in my opinion, speaking is what the guy does best, so I think he was happy in his element. I think that both Obama and Romney are guys intelligent enough to understand the approach and ideologies of the other side, perhaps fully, and they just happen to disagree. Romney, for example, has made some hard business decisions, affecting millions and millions of dollars in his life, so he's a guy that knows that there are multiple ways of doing things and he endeavors to pick the most efficient and effective one. In order to pick the most effective one, you must understand them both, inside and out and he does.

However, so does Obama. Regardless of where Obama's policies have led us (or will lead us) I think that he is a guy that genuinely tries to have the best interest of the masses in his heart. It's a very simple matter, in my opinion. Romney is a better Manager and Obama is more compassionate. Romney will pursue and maintain social programs provided that they are more or less self-sustaining (or absolutely necessary) and attempt to run them in as effective a manner as possible in order to avoid a drain on Government revenues. Obama also wishes to do this, however, Obama is willing to take more risks (such as Green Energy funding) with a less certain result.

Moderator(s), please delete. Extraneous camel. Thank you.


Camel?!?!?

Quote: EvenBob

It was odd watching King Obama having to stand there
and have somebody tell him to his face for an hour and
a half what a failure his presidency has been. Obama had
lots of pissed expressions, irritated, impatient. He doesn't
hear this from anybody in private and both him and his
wife never watch the news. He truly lives in a bubble.

Camel!?!?!?

Quote: Mission146

I disagree with that. I think that his facial expressions were consistent with absorbing Romney's statements and attempting to formulate rebuttals. He did not appear at all agitated,.

I just watched a 3min montage of Obama when Romney
was talking. He indeed looked irritated, smirking, pissed,
upset. And he rarely looked at Romney, he was always
looking down or at the moderator.

Quote: EvenBob

I just watched a 3min montage of Obama when Romney
was talking. He indeed looked irritated, smirking, pissed,
upset. And he rarely looked at Romney, he was always
looking down or at the moderator.

I accidentally flagged this post. Moderators and Bob: I'm sorry.

Anyway, on to the debate, if they had allowed even 1 3rd-party candidate, I would have paid attention. Sure, none of them are going to win this year. But the American people deserve to know that they CAN vote for them if they so choose. #garyjohnson2012

Quote: EvenBob

I just watched a 3min montage of Obama when Romney
was talking. He indeed looked irritated, smirking, pissed,
upset. And he rarely looked at Romney, he was always
looking down or at the moderator.

Irrelevant. He was taking notes a good bit of the time, and despite the lack of eye contact, I think that he was listening actively or else he wouldn't have had any facial expressions at all. Obama might have smirked occasionally, but that's just when he thought that Romney was misinterpreting something that he did or was lying or blaming Obama for things over which Obama felt he had no control.

I agree that more eye contact, or just looking at Romney as he spoke would have been better simply because Obama would come off as more confident.

On the other hand, I could say that Romney stared at Obama with a little smirk of smug condescension the entire time, but I am not going to declare that. In reality, I think that his staff just encourages him to smile any time he is not speaking, and he really just has a fake-looking smile when it's not genuine. For what it's worth, I have the same problem, if I try to smile in a non-genuine manner it looks like some sort of evil smirk. Some people just can't fake a smile well.

In any event, I'm going to base the bulk of my opinions upon what the dudes said rather than trying to read into facial expressions or body language. Is there some truth to both? Sure. However, I am well-versed on neither.

My take on the debate: Obviously Mr Romney won the debate with a strong performance. In addition, he didn't have to answer to any of the things that we thought he would like the 47% comment or his record at Bain capital or as governor of Massachusetts. President Obama, on the other hand, looked very unprepared and had a stunningly weak showing. I would expect the polls to tighten slightly in the coming days, especially the national polls, which as we all know, doesn't have that much meaning, as we elect the president through a series of state elections and president Obama will still lead in that area. The one area that President Obama did well, was the issue of medicare, where, Romney admitted, he would change medicare to a voucher program. That issue is the driving force with the senior community and is largely responsible for Obama's good showing in several key 'battleground' states like Ohio, Florida, Nevada. Because of this I don't think you will see the needle move all the much in these key states and that is what Mr Romney really needs.

One interesting thing I saw was on CNN after the debate they had a series of polls about who won the debate, etc. Mr Romney won all those polls decisively as you would expect, because he did clearly win the debate. But the last question was, has you favorability rating of Mr Romney changed? It barely moved from before the debate, up a single point. My point: Romney had a strong showing and the president a surprisingly weak showing. But, it may not matter all that much in the long run. John McCain was seen as the winner of the first debate 4 years ago. John Kerry declared the winner of first debate in 2004. Many think he won all 3 debates. Just didn't matter all that much. I don't think there is that many undecided voters remaining. It seems voters decided on their candidate earlier than previous elections. Hell, the whole election process has been moved up as 2/3 's of the country is already involved in some sort of early voting. So the Romney camp can hold his hand high in the air as the debate winner, and all Romney and republican supporters and/or Obama haters can dance in the streets tonight, but you may be placing way too much emphasis on what you saw tonight and only really seeing what you want to see. The polls will be interesting in the next few days, but I suspect you will only see small movement. Maybe 2-3 points in the national polls, declaring the race even or even a slight Romney lead, but probably only a point in the key battle ground states, where President Obama will still enjoy a lead of several points.

Here's a good take on the debate by an Obama loving Lib.
Reads from the bottom up. This debate has really shaken
the Left to its core.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/live-blogging-the-first-presidential-debate-2012.html

Obama doesn't stand a chance against Romney in debates. Romney has vast experience in business and the private sector creating jobs, making a payroll, and balancing budgets. This is experience that Obama simply doesn't have. Not to mention the fact that Romney is quite a bit more intelligent than Obama. The president is lost without his teleprompter. That was an embarrassing performance by the president.

Quote: Keyser

Obama doesn't stand a chance against Romney in debates. Romney has vast experience in business and the private sector creating jobs, making a payroll, and balancing budgets. This is experience that Obama simply doesn't have. Not to mention the fact that Romney is quite a bit more intelligent than Obama. The president is lost without his teleprompter. That was an embarrassing performance by the president.

So for the next debate the challenger's expectations are extremely high and incumbents low.

Hmm.

Naw, they probably didn't plan it that way, but if they did that could be genius.

Anyone play poker with a "weak" player. Then find out later you were sadly mistaken?

Quote: rxwine

Naw, they probably didn't plan it that way, but if they did that could be genius.

Nobody's getting this. Obama doesn't want to be
president anymore. He made his point, now he
can retire in style in Hawaii and live like a real
king. Go on the lecture circuit, have servants
for the rest of his life. Four more years to him
means more misery, more work he has zero
interest in. Retire after one term, the perks are
identical. His fire is gone, his interest is gone.

You think I'm joking? Look at his perfromance
tonight. He already grabbed the brass ring once,
grabbing it again proves nothing.

Did Romney say that I'm entitled to an airplane and a house but I'm not allowed to use facts?

Quote: s2dbaker

Did Romney say that I'm entitled to an airplane and a house but I'm not allowed to use facts?

No, it appears that would be a misquote of what he actually said:

"Mr. President, you’re entitled as a president to your own airplane, and to your own house, but not to your own facts." -Mitt Romney

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/10/03/debate-quote-romney-mr-president-youre-entitled-to-your-own-airplane-your-own-house-but-not-your-own-facts/

Quote: ncfatcat

The whole election boils down to are you a socialist or a fascist?

With Obama you get both!

Quote: EvenBob

Here's a good take on the debate by an Obama loving Lib.
Reads from the bottom up. This debate has really shaken
the Left to its core.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/10/live-blogging-the-first-presidential-debate-2012.html

Thanks for the post of this, seeing an f-bomb dropped in it shows how bad Obama must have been going down. I only saw anout 10 mins of this debate in the break room (10:00 EDT) , but in those 10 minmutes I noticed Obama stammering and blinking a lot. Must have went on more because that is one of the things I have read about in the news today. I wasn't going to watch a replay, but now I might. The lamestreams are not even trying to make this look good for Obama.

It shows what many of us have been saying since 2008:

1. Obama cannot communicate without a teleprompter.
2. Obama cannot function unless everyone in the room is fawning all over him.
3. Obama has never been challenged to lead in a situation where he had to deal with the opposition.

"Blame the moderator" seems to be a theme here on WoV and elsewhere. Did Obama do that bad? I cannot wait to watch when I have time later this week.


Just imagine what a slaughter Ryan-Biden will be.l

Re: Moderator, I actually liked that the candidates got to go back and forth at each other a little bit, rather than just take turns giving their semi-prepared remarks. That being said, Jim Lehrer got pwned.

I was in and out of the room, but it seemed like Romney was directly addressing his remarks to Obama, while Obama would talk to the camera or to Lehrer.

Quote: slyther

I was in and out of the room, but it seemed like Romney was directly addressing his remarks to Obama, while Obama would talk to the camera or to Lehrer.

If I was to hazard a guess here I would say Obama was coached and watched tape from 1980. The debate then was known for the audience sayig "Carter won" in part because he focused on the audience but the nation said "Reagan won" in part because he was looking at the camera, and thus them. Anyone who has trained or coached people on anything have likely seen that when you coach people about something so speciffic there is a huge chance that they will ovedrdo or overcorrect.

Wow, did these election threads die or what. Take
heart, another debate tomorrow. I just heard Romney
went to Havrard Law and Harvard Business at the SAME
time. Do you know how smart you have to be to do
that? He graduated only 20 years ago in his mid 40's,
Magna Cum Laude.

Obama will release his Harvard record any day now, I'm
sure. (snicker)

There is good news on Intrade, though. They
still have Obama 61-39 to beat Romney. Those
Lib EU folks, are they ever wrong?

My thoughts: the election has definitely tightened up, especially the popular vote. I said back in January that I thought it was very possible Romney would win the popular vote, while Obama won enough states to retain the presidency. I feel equally as strong about that possibility at this moment.

There is no doubt there was quite a bump for Mr Romney in both the popular vote and several swing states. A bump that I found extremely surprising, simply because history has not shown this kind of a bounce from either debate performance or Conventions. So this bounce, almost game changing is kind of unprecedented. It almost cost Obama the election. I think what prevented this was Ohio. This election was always going to be about Ohio. There is almost no path for Romney without Ohio. Obama need only carry the 'Kerry states', ie traditional democrat states while winning Ohio and he is within 4 electoral votes of winning. This means any other swing state, with the exception of New Hampshire and he wins. If he won New Hampshire's 4 votes and nothing else, you are looking at a 269-269 tie.

So back to Ohio, because again, it now is all about Ohio. Ohio will basically elect the president, much as they did in 2004 and Florida did in 2000. Romney can win Florida, and North Carolina which I always figured he would win. He could win Virgina which is tight. And still he is unlikely to get there without Ohio. Now Ohio has tightened as well, no doubt. You may see a stray poll or two that now have it even or even Romney up a point, but even the diehard repubs know thats not true. It has probably tightened from an 7-8 point Obama lead to 3-4, but that is a big lead for a state that has very few undecided and is already well into early voting. It is expected that a third of the people in Ohio will vote early. Obama has a strong ground game in Ohio, even the Romney camp admits they have a stronger ground game. And the truth is Ohio was always going to be an uphill struggle for Romney. The economy is doing better there, with unemployment 1-2 points well below the national average, in large part because the auto bail out succeeded. The same auto bailout that Romney opposed. Romney can downplay his opposition, but the folks there know he opposed it and it saved many of their jobs.

So yes there has been a shift. In my eyes an amazing shift. But not so much in the single most important state. Still major Obama advantage in Ohio. Predictwise still lists Ohio at better tha 2-1 for Obama, despite these polls that say it is 3 points.

Tomorrow is another day, and another debate. maybe Romney can duplicate his very strong showing and who knows. Things may change. But for now, even after this 'shift' it is still Advantage Obama and is his to lose. (IMO)

Quote: s2dbaker

I'm going with the guy that got bin Laden. Also, the US economy histoically does much better with a Democrat at the helm.

I think your stats are probably right in general regarding the economy under a Dem... but the jobs would have come back and Bin Laden would have been dead if my 6 year old had been in the white house IMO.
I hate to cast a vote for either but will vote Romney because I think he will be more likely to compromise to get stuff done and can deliver a clearer outlook on the regulatory and tax environment for business. Community activists dont have the same negotiating skills as Private Equity suits.
I feel bad for anyone in a swing state as the ads must be unbearable... I predict Florida will go Republican but Ohio will be tough to take from the Dems. But It's the Presidents race to lose and I expect he will keep his job.

Speaking of Ohio, guess who has invitations to go see Bill Clinton on Thursday in Steubenville!!!

I'm taking my copy of, My Life, anyone want to give me some Odds of it getting signed?

Quote: Mission146

Speaking of Ohio, guess who has invitations to go see Bill Clinton on Thursday in Steubenville!!!

I'm taking my copy of, My Life, anyone want to give me some Odds of it getting signed?

I'm interested in Clinton's mood towards Obama
when you see him. He is not happy right now,
Obama is dumping the Libya fiasco in Hillary's lap
because of his massive incompetency. They
aren't happy and very much want Obama to
lose in Nov. Hillary has no chance in 2016
if we get four more years of a do nothing disaster
like Obama.

Quote: EvenBob

I'm interested in Clinton's mood towards Obama
when you see him. He is not happy right now,
Obama is dumping the Libya fiasco in Hillary's lap
because of his massive incompetency. They
aren't happy and very much want Obama to
lose in Nov. Hillary has no chance in 2016
if we get four more years of a do nothing disaster
like Obama.

Tokyo Rose, is that you?

Quote: Mission146

I would be shocked if Bill Clinton expresses any of this, !

He won't express it, its his mood towards Obama
I'm interested in. He hates Obama's guts because of
how Obama treated him in 2008.

Quote: EvenBob

He won't express it, its his mood towards Obama
I'm interested in. He hates Obama's guts because of
how Obama treated him in 2008.

It is actually being speculated that Bill Clinton wants some sort of role in an Obama second term. He also would have no problem taking credit for the win based on his Convention speech, which was widely viewed as responsible for the Obama's Post convention bump.