Wizard
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Wizard 
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September 23rd, 2021 at 5:17:31 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

He plays with an edge. You don't.

  • link to original post



    I think a more diplomatic way to say that would be something like, "You have not provided evidence you have an advantage."

    As I've said before, one cay say they don't believe MDawg, but they can't say he is lying. That is where a line is drawn.

    Your comment comes closer to accusing him of lying. I'm going to give you a chance to rephrase your comment or stronger action may be taken.
    It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
    sabre
    sabre
    Joined: Aug 16, 2010
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    September 23rd, 2021 at 6:37:00 PM permalink
    Quote: Wizard


    Your comment comes closer to accusing him of lying. I'm going to give you a chance to rephrase your comment or stronger action may be taken.



    It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation. If that manner was +EV, then that poster never alluded to +EV play once. They alluded to -EV play based on progressions, card flow, and other voodoo repeatedly. Dozens of times in fact.

    If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision

    If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.

    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.

    If he's playing +EV and he's encouraging others to pay exorbitant withdrawal fees to play +EV then I honestly have no idea what this whole dog and pony show is about
    Wizard
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    Wizard 
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    September 24th, 2021 at 6:03:07 AM permalink
    Quote: sabre

    It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation.



    I'm waiting to hear if this quote officially gets challenged. If it does, I'll have to ask you to demonstrate where MDawg says this. If you can't, you get suspended, if you can MDawg does. However, I'll give you the chance right now to retract it, if you wish. If you stand by it, no need to document it, unless a challenge is filed.
    It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
    OnceDear
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    OnceDear
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    September 24th, 2021 at 7:56:44 AM permalink
    Quote: sabre

    It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation.



    Quote: Wizard

    I'm waiting to hear if this quote officially gets challenged. If it does, I'll have to ask you to demonstrate where MDawg says this. If you can't, you get suspended, if you can MDawg does. However, I'll give you the chance right now to retract it, if you wish. If you stand by it, no need to document it, unless a challenge is filed.

  • link to original post

    If I can assist.....
    In a hidden thread which I will not dignify with a link, the member MarcusClark66 attributes his baccarat success to the guidance that he has received from MDawg. I've never seen any reference to them being in communication by phone. I HAVE seen a member, which I believe was Marcusclark66 post that he drew cash from an ATM at considerable cost so that he could place his wager. However, that post seems to have been quickly redacted*

    Some quotes
    Quote: MarcusClark66

    ... MDawg turned me on to baccarat and is the one that totally influenced me. He allowed me to realize many positive things that totally influenced me. Credit where credit is due. Nothing wrong where I come from big guy!



    Quote: MarcusClark66

    Thanks to all of you but most of all to the Great MDawg!


    Quote: Marcusclark66

    EXTRA NOTE: Almost gave up and left a $1,500.00 loser, but MDAWG is to credit and receive a huge hug and high five for his ‘words of wisdom’ and other private things that have been absorbed from the great one! Public thanks and huge appreciation to the Great MDawg!

    Bolding mine. First suggestion that they have been in private conversation.
    Quote: Marcusclark66

    I played nine times so far and I'm very modest in what I do and I contribute everything I've been able to learn and do because of MDawg. I have no affiliation whatsoever with him in any way, shape or form. A lot of long-time members here have made me out to be the bad guy. All fine and good as the saying goes. Hugs once again!! :)

    Quite possibly if some of the well-established longtime members here didn't stay on me and talk down to me, I might not have had the wherewithal to accomplish what I did with the knowledge and the Insight that I adopted and adapted from MDawg.



    So I think that we can fairly say that MDawg has influenced MarcusClark66. BUT. I see no mention of phone calls between them. Never have seen mentions of such calls.

    There are many similar references to MDawg being MarcusClark's inspiration, but those references are at other forunms and so are out of scope here.

    *Now, as to the drawing cash from an ATM to gamble. There WAS a post where a member, I believe it was MarcusClark66 mentioned drawing cash from an ATM at significant cost. I believe the original post...
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/36061-i-have-learned-a-lot-here-and-ready-to-play/25/#post822183
    was heavily redacted to hide that mention, but it is referenced here.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/36061-i-have-learned-a-lot-here-and-ready-to-play/25/#post822228

    *I do recall a mention of ATM fees of $600, but might be mistaken.
    Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 25, 2021
    Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
    Wizard
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    Wizard 
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    September 24th, 2021 at 9:36:50 PM permalink
    Quote: sabre

    It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation.



    A coach's challenge has been issued for this claim. Here is what is going to happen. You have 48 hours to provide evidence for your claim. If you can't, you will be suspended for false quoting. If you can, MDawg will be suspended for losing the challenge. The term of the suspension to be decided by me, but I'm thinking a week.

    The clock is ticking.
    It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
    AxelWolf
    AxelWolf
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    September 24th, 2021 at 10:10:09 PM permalink
    Quote: Wizard

    A coach's challenge has been issued for this claim. Here is what is going to happen. You have 48 hours to provide evidence for your claim. If you can't, you will be suspended for false quoting. If you can, MDawg will be suspended for losing the challenge. The term of the suspension to be decided by me, but I'm thinking a week.

    The clock is ticking.

  • link to original post

    I talked to sabre via text and told him I paid 6% in withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation.

    It did not happen, I just claimed it did as a joke. Unfortunately, I didn't put a J/k afterwards, so he may have thought it to be true.

    J/K

    But seriously, Sabre didn't claim anyone posted it or that it was first hand, it could have been a private conversation by a 3rd party.
    It seems very odd sabre would just pull this out of his ass.

    I agree that's a serious allegation and some fact-checking would be in order on his part if he insisted on posting that. I certainly am not in favour of serious misinformation like this being spread and stated as a fact about anyone.
    Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Sep 25, 2021
    ♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
    OnceDear
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    OnceDear
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    September 25th, 2021 at 2:28:27 AM permalink
    Quote: sabre

    It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation.


    Quote: Wizard

    A coach's challenge has been issued for this claim. Here is what is going to happen. You have 48 hours to provide evidence for your claim. If you can't, you will be suspended for false quoting. If you can, MDawg will be suspended for losing the challenge. The term of the suspension to be decided by me, but I'm thinking a week.

    The clock is ticking.

  • link to original post

    I'm extensively editing this after finding what I'd described]
    Wizard,
    I believe this is what is being referred to.
    link to original post
    Quote: marcusclark66


    Well I went to the casino, brought $3,500.00 ...... Won $1,500.00. I parlayed and wagered $3,000.00 on the players again. Players got a 6 and the bankers side got a natural 8. I was down $1,500.00 now.


    ...
    Quote: marcusclark66

    I was now down $3,000.00.


    Quote: marcusclark66 Emphasis mine

    Here is where the plot definitely thickens! And against everything I told myself up to this very point about walking away. Win or Lose. But I went to the cashiers counter and pulled $5,000.00 from my card linked to my bankroll account, cost me a shade under $300.00 service fees. Got the cash and returned to the baccarat table.

    Quote: marcusclark66

    $3,500.00 I put on bankers.



    So. We have MarcusClark66, MDawg's No#1 fan wagering on baccarat. He often says he is inspired by MDawg.
    MarcusClark66 making multiple Thousand dollar+ wagers on baccarat.
    MarcusClark66 finding himself $3,000 in the hole for the session.
    MarcusClark66 finding himself inclined to withdraw $5,000 using a card at a cost of $300 ( 6% by my reckoning)
    MarcusClark66 finding himself wagering $3,500 of that $5,000 on his next hand.
    He then goes on to win some $11,000 or so in that session and has in that post
    Quote: marcusclark66

    Thanks out once again to MDawg. Thank You! Hug as well!



    Now, I don't know if that fits exactly Sabre's allegation. I recognise that there is no evidence of any phone call. But as I see it, Sabre has reasonably faithfully characterized the situation. Maybe Sabre will find the extra evidence of some phone call, though MDawg has already refuted that he ever made such a call, and I believe him on that.




    Anyhow, here is what I had posted before this edit. Only fair that I leave it as a matter of record.


    I will testify that I recall seeing such a post. It did relate to drawing thousands out from a casino ATM at considerable cost. That money was, of course then used to play Baccarat. I believe that it was posted by MarcusClark on 5th September in this postbut that that post was later redacted. As such, the evidence seems to only exist in my memory. Look closely in the follow up post by ChallengeMilley.
    Quote: ChallengeMilly

    Surprised you pulled out so much having to pay fees that steep for it.


    Quote: marcusclark66

    Advances are steep. Some places local, not in casinos, have no fee atm's but limited withdrawals. Probably my first and last time doing that.

    Bolding mine.
    I vaguely recall the ATM withdrawal suffering a $300 or $600 fee. I don't recall a percentage being mentioned.

    Wizard. Who was the 'coach'? MDawg? Forgive me I'm not overly familiar with coach's challenge terminology.
    Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 25, 2021
    Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
    MDawg
    MDawg
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    Thanks for this post from:
    OnceDear
    September 25th, 2021 at 5:21:36 AM permalink
    Quote: Wizard

    A coach's challenge has been issued for this claim. Here is what is going to happen. You have 48 hours to provide evidence for your claim. If you can't, you will be suspended for false quoting. If you can, MDawg will be suspended for losing the challenge. The term of the suspension to be decided by me, but I'm thinking a week.

    The clock is ticking.

  • link to original post


    As I made clear

    I have never talked on the phone with anyone from WOV other than the Wizard, and I certainly never have advised anyone to cash advance money at 6% or to cash advance money period to gamble.

    That OnceDear is coming forward with some vague recollection of what someone else posted is irrelevant hearsay. There is no evidence to support what Sabre has said and that he posted it as "stone cold fact" is especially egregious.

    Keep in mind the second part of his post. I challenge all of that too.


    If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision

    If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.


    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.


    Sabre is saying ("assuming") that I TELL others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play. Where is the evidence for that? PLURAL OTHERS. There is an S there no less!
    That's a terrible assertion to make.

    The point of Sabre's post is that I advise ("tell") people to go withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees. That OnceDear is wasting time trying to support such a terrible allegation makes him as guilty as Sabre in my book. Unless he doesn't understand that the nature of Sabre's post is that I tell others [on the phone] to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play, I'd expect him to withdraw his weak and irrelevent, in any case, support for sabre, now.

    I dealt with someone I met in Vegas a couple years or so ago, whom I specifically advised NOT to EVER use credit cards for gambling, and I provided the links to my saying that in those posts above - I am against anyone's using a cash advance for gambling, which is why I object so much to this mischaracterization of something I'd tell someone to do.

    Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Sep 25, 2021
    I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
    Expectedvalue
    Expectedvalue
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    September 25th, 2021 at 5:28:58 AM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: Wizard

    A coach's challenge has been issued for this claim. Here is what is going to happen. You have 48 hours to provide evidence for your claim. If you can't, you will be suspended for false quoting. If you can, MDawg will be suspended for losing the challenge. The term of the suspension to be decided by me, but I'm thinking a week.

    The clock is ticking.

  • link to original post


    As I made clear

    I have never talked on the phone with anyone from WOV other than the Wizard, and I certainly never have advised anyone to cash advance money at 6% or to cash advance money period to gamble.

    That OnceDear is coming forward with some vague recollection of what someone else posted is irrelevant hearsay. There is no evidence to support what Sabre has said and that he posted it as "stone cold fact" is especially egregious.

    Keep in mind the second part of his post. I challenge all of that too.

    If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision

    If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.


    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.

    Sabre is saying that I tell others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play[/]. Where is the evidence for that? PLURAL OTHERS. There is an S there no less!
    That's a terrible assertion to make.
  • link to original post



    In almost every single post Marcus Clark writes he thanks you and has claimed in the past that you so called mentored him. You chime in on his thread so you know what’s going on. You know if you are telling him some hocus pocus or not
    Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Sep 25, 2021
    OnceDear
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    OnceDear
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    September 25th, 2021 at 6:13:39 AM permalink
    Quote: MDawg

    Quote: Wizard

    A coach's challenge has been issued for this claim.


    As I made clear

    I have never talked on the phone with anyone from WOV other than the Wizard, and I certainly never have advised anyone to cash advance money at 6% or to cash advance money period to gamble.

    That OnceDear is coming forward with some vague recollection of what someone else posted is irrelevant hearsay. There is no evidence to support what Sabre has said and that he posted it as "stone cold fact" is especially egregious.
  • link to original post



    FYI to Mdawg, Sabre and Wizard.

    I had some vague evidence to recollect and I posted about that. I have since found the hard evidence that supported my recollection and I hadn't done too bad at all for an old guy.
    I went back and edited and cited the full evidence by referring to a found post from 5 Sept.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/gambling/36459-perpetual-comp-machine/15/#post825073

    You will see that I agree that there is never any suggestion or evidence of any phone call or even any 'advice' in that post. In other posts, MC refers to some words of wisdom that he attributes to MDawg.

    Now. I suggest that we await Wizards ruling on this challenge and let this thread get back to it's original topic.
    Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 25, 2021
    Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.

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