Are some members paid to be on the WOV forums?

Quote: MathExtremist

I've been in the business for a very long time, and I can't imagine it would ever be cost effective to actually pay someone to "work" a forum board in the way you're describing. It's just a business decision -- what revenue would be gained by doing so that would outweigh the cost of paying that person?

Many many industries and large businesses pay "marketing people" to patrol social media and defend the industry or company against criticism and nasty rumors. WOV is perhaps a bit small for anyone to care what is said on here, but my question was a legitamate one.

I have seen on the Discover Channel that entrepreneurs in India and third world countries offer services in which thousands of people will get on facebook and "Like" your products or posts -or tens of thousands will get on You-tube and look at your video -to try to prompt it into going viral. And there are many companies and private interests (like agents for performers) that pay for these services.

So, Mathextremist - the world is a much bigger place than you know and has changed greatly since you closed your mind and stop learning and observing. You have "been in this business" too long, IMO - many of the things you think you know are no longer true.

Quote: gordonm888

Many many industries and large businesses pay "marketing people" to patrol social media and defend the industry or company against criticism and nasty rumors. WOV is perhaps a bit small for anyone to care what is said on here, but my question was a legitamate one.

I have seen on the Discover Channel that entrepreneurs in India and third world countries offer services in which thousands of people will get on facebook and "Like" your products or posts -or tens of thousands will get on You-tube and look at your video -to try to prompt it into going viral. And there are many companies and private interests (like agents for performers) that pay for these services.

So, Mathextremist - the world is a much bigger place than you know and has changed greatly since you closed your mind and stop learning and observing. You have "been in this business" too long, IMO - many of the things you think you know are no longer true.

You are the one that seems to have the lack of knowledge. Math is almost always right on the mark when he says something.

You didn't ask if people were paid to like a facebook page or video. You are comparing apples and oranges in your comparison.

You asked if people were paid to come here. Every person that's in the industry that replied said no. Maybe it's you that needs to learn and observe??


ZCore13

The answer is no.

If a game or product is good, it'll be a success by gamblers selecting it.

If a game or product is poor, it'll be a failure by gamblers rejecting it.

Shilling for free doesn't work. Shilling for cash is asinine.

Good products sell themselves.

Quote: gordonm888

Many many industries and large businesses pay "marketing people" to patrol social media and defend the industry or company against criticism and nasty rumors. WOV is perhaps a bit small for anyone to care what is said on here, but my question was a legitamate one.

I have seen on the Discover Channel that entrepreneurs in India and third world countries offer services in which thousands of people will get on facebook and "Like" your products or posts -or tens of thousands will get on You-tube and look at your video -to try to prompt it into going viral. And there are many companies and private interests (like agents for performers) that pay for these services.

That may be true, but your question was specifically directed at whether anyone was being paid by their gaming-industry employer to post here, on this forum. That's a totally different question than whether the new owners of WoV are using paid authors (or like-button clickers) to increase readership of this forum. In this case, neither is true, but you only asked the first question, not the second.

Quote:

So, Mathextremist - the world is a much bigger place than you know and has changed greatly since you closed your mind and stop learning and observing. You have "been in this business" too long, IMO - many of the things you think you know are no longer true.

You asked whether any forum members who worked in the gaming industry were being paid to post here and they all answered no. I went so far as to doubt that it could even be cost-effective for any company to hire someone to post here, and your reply is "I watch Discover Channel shows and you're closed-minded"?

Whatever it was that you were trying to prove, you didn't get there.

Quote: MathExtremist

You asked whether any forum members who worked in the gaming industry were being paid to post here and they all answered no.

That is so silly. Where, on this thread, did everyone in the forum answer "No!" It never happened! Most people never responded - instead Paigowdan diverted attention from the question.

Quote: MathExtremist

I went so far as to doubt that it could even be cost-effective for any company to hire someone to post here, and your reply is "I watch Discover Channel shows and you're closed-minded"?

Your comment was "I've been in the business many years. . . blah, blah, blah." I would respect the opinion of a young college graduate who had grown up with the internet and been in the industry 1-2 years far more then I would respect your opinion - when it comes to social media and what businesses will do.

I have a family member who graduated within the past 2 years with a B.A. degree in Marketing-Social Media and has worked in social media for companies. I know for a fact that companies hire people to patrol social media -no, its usually not a full-time job for anyone (except maybe for unpaid interns) but it can be a part of wider responsibilities for marketing people.

There are practices in "marketing" in the year 2016 that you seem to be unaware of. There are concepts such as "unpaid interns" that you seem to be unaware of. And since no one has chosen you to be in senior management of a casino corporation (or of anything else), Mathextremist, I have no reason to believe you have a core competency in how to run a major corporation in the year 2016 and know anything at all about how executives would make decisions of this sort. So I judge that your opinions on this subject are meaningless.

I have gone back and reviewed many of your posts in this thread and others that I have started -and my conclusion is that - given your "many years in the business" - that the worms may already be at work on you, and you simply haven't yet noticed it.

Gordon is my cousin, go easy on him ;-)

Hey Gordo, cuz. What's up? If I may, your initial question wasn't clearly dilineated and generated quite a few responses all around, and outside, the answers I think you were looking for. I have pondered the initial question a bit and wondered why you asked it.

Why did you ask it? Was it a simple yes or no type thing? I'm sure I could get someone to pay me for posting here, maybe that guy with the jumpy cat. Just tell him, "I'll make sure that an investment in paying me to post here returns 25% return on your investment. Done deal. Now someone is paid to post here. Is that what you wanted to hear?

We're you asking about why someone might be paid to post here, and by whom, and for what reason?

The thread is alive and well, and active.
I'm not sure why.
Are we looking for conclusions, or is this just academic discussion toward someone's dissertation?
I like what you post Gordon, at least generally, but you have lost me once again. Can you take me by the hand and explain where we are going and why?

Quote: gordonm888

Your comment was "I've been in the business many years. . . blah, blah, blah." I would respect the opinion of a young college graduate who had grown up with the internet and been in the industry 1-2 years far more then I would respect your opinion - when it comes to social media and what businesses will do.
...
I judge that your opinions on this subject are meaningless.

I have gone back and reviewed many of your posts in this thread and others that I have started...

You took the time to respond to a post I made more than three weeks ago just to tell me how closed-minded I am and, subsequently, how meaningless my opinions are. And you also re-read other, older posts I made? That's both flattering and creepy at the same time. You need something else to think about, to really work over in your mind and ponder thoughtfully. How about the details of Donald Trump's foreign policy positions.

Oh, you're done already?

Quote: Zcore13

You are the one that seems to have the lack of knowledge. Math is almost always right on the mark when he says something.

You didn't ask if people were paid to like a facebook page or video. You are comparing apples and oranges in your comparison.

You asked if people were paid to come here. Every person that's in the industry that replied said no. Maybe it's you that needs to learn and observe??


ZCore13

I disagree Z. Gordo was spot on about the business of social engineering/manipulation and everything he stated was correct about whats going on this instant. The Casino industry isn't any different. The cottage industry of paid social influence is I think exactly associated with this question. But the personal comments by anyone about anyone else wasn't needed, including yours. I learned that the hard way.

"That's a totally different question than whether the new owners of WoV are using paid authors (or like-button clickers) to increase readership of this forum. "

He never asked any question like that. Where did that come from? Gordo's point about social manipulation is relevant to HIS original question as it pertains to people being paid by organizations (casinos) to monitor and influence forum boards. The Casino industry, now that everyone and their brother are trying to be online casino's would be even more interested in the online community. And who's to say a casino employee may just be interested and self motivated to hang out as well and not reveal themselves, for whatever the reason.

gl

Stop it you guys. Sniping isn't becoming of neither one of you.
And it's below both of you as well.

This is a tough topic in the first place and it looks to be failing rapidly.
Sorry this is happening to yet another interesting thread.

Quote: sammydv

"That's a totally different question than whether the new owners of WoV are using paid authors (or like-button clickers) to increase readership of this forum. "

He never asked any question like that. Where did that come from?

The premise of hiring like-button clickers and video watchers is the analogy he was making based on watching some television program about social media manipulation. It's entirely inapposite because this forum is not like Facebook or YouTube in the slightest, both in data-mining functionality and in scale. The Wizard knows more about me from personal interactions than the owners of this forum do from my posts. That's certainly not true for Facebook and their typical user. But I've been scolded that, since I didn't graduate from college only two years ago, I must not know anything about social media, so we'll just leave it at that.

Quote:

Gordo's point about social manipulation is relevant to HIS original question as it pertains to people being paid by organizations (casinos) to monitor and influence forum boards. The Casino industry, now that everyone and their brother are trying to be online casino's would be even more interested in the online community. And who's to say a casino employee may just be interested and self motivated to hang out as well and not reveal themselves, for whatever the reason.

First off, not everyone and their brother are trying to be online casinos. Not in the slightest -- just ask the actual land-based casino operators on this forum.

More to the point, when you ask a question, get an answer, but don't like it, the wrong thing to do is to argue with the people who bothered to answer in the first place. I'm in the industry, I'm not paid by anyone to post here. Neither is anyone else in the industry who posts here and who actually answered his question. There's nothing wrong with being a casino employee who is interested and self-motivated to hang out in secret, as you suggest, but that's very different than being paid to do so.

Suppose you were a casino operator and you were thinking about hiring a part-time social media manager to participate in forum discussions. What activity would that person do to justify their salary and how would you quantify the value of that activity in order to convince your shareholders that it was a good investment? Convince me that paying someone to post here would yield any sort of measurable returns on a regular basis.

Quote:

The premise of hiring like-button clickers and video watchers is the analogy he was making based on watching some television program about social media manipulation. It's entirely inapposite because this forum is not like Facebook or YouTube in the slightest, both in data-mining functionality and in scale.

I'm not the one questioning your education or expertise. You seem to be defending a point that doesn't seem to exist or apply here. Knowledge about social media control has been around for years, and the fcc and government agencies making the massive mistake about qualifying instant non verifiable social sites as credible sources will add to the mess.
The recent turmoil of betsoft would be a good example perhaps of hiring someone to become a mod and make certain posts vanish. Slot Game designers could ask questions anonymously about their designs and such.
Maybe even have people planted to befriend AP's on forum boards and get info. But it doesn't need to be insidious. Casinos can use forum boards to tally interests in casino efforts. but someone has to spend the time and even if it's a college kid, it won't be for free.

wov is one board, the practical operation by an individual is multiple boards over the internet globe. And one does not do research one thread at a time, they use search engines and such. There's plenty of 3rd party forum board search web crawlers.

But I realized early on that the original question would never be answered because forums are for the most part about anonymous members and if there was any covert observation going on, no one would certainly admit that.

Maybe that's why the thread threatens to fall apart. There's really nothing left to keep it together.

Funny thing about this thread is the poll. Only 5 votes for No industry shills on WOV. 12 people saying they are paid to be here. 9 people saying others are paid to shutdown conversations.

If you read through the thread you would think the poll would be the exact opposite. I didn't see one person saying that they think people are paid to be here in the discussion, only on the poll.

The polls are anonymous, so a person could be honest on the polls, and still be a shill as well. It's interesting.

Quote: JyBrd0403

Funny thing about this thread is the poll. Only 5 votes for No industry shills on WOV. 12 people saying they are paid to be here. 9 people saying others are paid to shutdown conversations.

Maybe, - MAYBE - concerning online casinos with a spurious claim, "I was ripped off at online casino Lucky Wazoo's" . and when asked to substantiate, the malarkey may reveal itself. And this can be for free. I can't see it at all for a brick and mortar casino.

Quote: JyBrd

If you read through the thread you would think the poll would be the exact opposite. I didn't see one person saying that they think people are paid to be here in the discussion, only on the poll.

I can't see getting paid to either shill or defame a casino; it would come under quick scrutiny and exposure.

Quote: JyBrd

The polls are anonymous, so a person could be honest on the polls, and still be a shill as well. It's interesting.

Or...(more likely), a person can fib in the polls, and be honest in accounts, as it would be hard to produce fabrications without being questioned on plausible and verifiable details.

Quote: Wikipedia Internet trolls: Corporate, political, or special interest sponsored trolls

See also: troll army, Trolls from Olgino, and Megaphone desktop tool

Investigative journalist Sharyl Attkisson is one of several in the media who has reported on the increasing trend for organizations to utilize trolls to manipulate public opinion as part and parcel of an Astroturfing initiative. Teams of sponsored trolls, sometimes referred to as sockpuppet armies,[41][42] swarm a site to overwhelm any honest discourse and denigrate any who disagree with them.[43] A 2012 Pew Center on the States presentation on Effective Messaging included two examples of social media posts by a recently launched "rapid response team" dedicated to promoting fluoridation of community water supplies. That same presentation also emphasized changing the topic of conversation as a winning strategy.[44]

A 2016 study by Harvard political scientist Gary King reported that the Chinese government's 50 Cent Party creates 440 million pro-government social media posts per year.[45][46] The report said that government employees were paid to create pro-government posts around the time of national holidays to avoid mass political protests. The Chinese Government ran an editorial in the state-funded Global Times defending censorship and 50c party trolls.[47]

A 2016 study for the NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence (NATO StratCom COE) on hybrid warfare notes that the Russian military intervention in Ukraine "demonstrated how fake identities and accounts were used to disseminate narratives through social media, blogs, and web commentaries in order to manipulate, harass, or deceive opponents."[48](p3) The NATO report describes that a "Wikipedia troll" uses a type of message design where a troll does not add "emotional value" to reliable "essentially true" information in re-posts, but presents it "in the wrong context, intending the audience to draw false conclusions." For example, information, without context, from Wikipedia about the military history of the United States "becomes value-laden if it is posted in the comment section of an article criticizing Russia for its military actions and interests in Ukraine. The Wikipedia troll is 'tricky', because in terms of actual text, the information is true, but the way it is expressed gives it a completely different meaning to its readers."[48](p62) Unlike "classic trolls," Wikipedia trolls "have no emotional input, they just supply misinformation" and are one of "the most dangerous" as well as one of "the most effective trolling message designs."[48](pp70, 76) Even among people who are "emotionally immune to aggressive messages" and apolitical, "training in critical thinking" is needed, according to the NATO report, because "they have relatively blind trust in Wikipedia sources and are not able to filter information that comes from platforms they consider authoritative."[48](p72) While Russian-language hybrid trolls use the Wikipedia troll message design to promote anti-Western sentiment in comments, they "mostly attack aggressively to maintain emotional attachment to issues covered in articles."[48](p75) Discussions about topics, other than International sanctions during the Ukrainian crisis, "attracted very aggressive trolling" and became polarized according to the NATO report, which "suggests that in subjects in which there is little potential for re-educating audiences, emotional harm is considered more effective" for pro-Russian Latvian-language trolls.[48](p76)