Casinos don't cheat.....prove it.

Quote: cclub79

You obviously haven't seen the AC casino numbers recently. I think you've got the two animals mixed up. You have an entire agency in the Attorney General's office who's job it is to find cheating. I can't believe that NO DEALER who experienced this rampant cheating and was let go for any reason wouldn't go to them and start an investigation that led somewhere, if the cheating is everywhere. Nevertheless, I think I'm going to do my own investigating with the NJDGE and see what I can find. Your posts will be a good start. I have nothing to lose as I'm not employed by a casino and if they kill me over their cheating, then I guess I'll just be another collateral loss caused by the elephants.

I assume that the numbers you refer to are the reduced revenue figures for AC in recent months. I don't see how those numbers are relevant to the topic--the effectiveness of Gaming Control in AC or NV, or lack thereof.

I would, however, reiterate my comment about the political clout of casinos in BOTH jurisdictions.

Quote: Headlock

Most of us would agree that cheating the player occurred with some regularity during the Mob control days.

When the Nevada Gaming Control Board was formed in 1955, they found that every game in every Nevada casino was rigged, there were no honest casinos. Of course, every casino was run by the Mob, what did they expect. Marked cards, loaded dice, gaffed wheels, stacked decks, slots that never paid off. It was incredible. And collusion between dealers and suits was rampant, it was amazing the casinos made any profits at all. Every single rule a dealer has to follow is the direct result of cheating in the past. Dealers used to hide money and chips everywhere on their person. In their cuffs, collar, hair, belts, socks, and even in their mouths. Those were the days..

Quote: mkl654321

By the way, if you could listen to the conversation in the break room for five minutes, you'd never toke the dealer again. The people who toke heavily ("georges") are the ones held in the highest contempt.

I was a bartender years ago and I felt the customers who tipped big were chumps. Its because they think they can buy you with a big tip, and the opposite is true. I always took small tips with no emotion, as I'm sure most dealers do.

I read something interesting years ago. Mob guys always tip big, real big. Sinatra used to carry nothing but a roll of hundreds. They do it to show contempt for the person their tipping, that they've 'made it', and the person they're tipping hasn't. It works. They envy and hate the tipper all at the same time, which is the intention. When Sinatra gave you a hundred dollar bill for parking his car in 1960, he wasn't saying "Great job, pal." He was showing you how big the gap was between you and him, how much of a somebody he was, and how much of a nobody you were.

Quote: DorothyGale

Silly boy ...

There is no porcelain tea pot in orbit around mars. Prove it ...

You can't?

I guess there must be one.

--Dorothy

"Em! Em! Dorothy's eaten her crayons again!"

"No, Henry. I took them away because she was scribbling on the walls!"

"Well, I suppose she'll be posting nonsense on the internet forums again."

Quote: mkl654321

And the casinos don't "know" diddly about the mathematics. They are under the delusion that the house edge means they should win over and over, constantly, without interruption, all the time.

Funny but true. You'd think your average suit in the pit would know his game inside out, yet they usually don't know squat about the math of the game. They're almost all former dealers and when they put the suit on, its like they leave half their brain at home. Now they can finally relax, and make somebody elses life miserable for a change. You'd think that with a promotion to management, they'd want to learn all they can about what they do, but they don't. They just get fat and lazy. Human nature, I guess.

I'll try to steer this thread back to the original topic.

Is there any evidence that gaming controls are effective and enforced to ensure casino patrons get a fair game?

Specifically, has anyone seen gaming commission personnel in the casino measuring and weighing dice and examining cards?

Thanks to superrick for pointing me to The Bear Growls website. One thing I found particularly interesting was the article about Colorado casinos required to keep balancing calipers near the craps tables. I am going to Colorado this weekend, and I intend to ask about that. I may even ask to see the dice balanced if I see an opportunity.

As an aside, I play craps almost exclusively, and I have gambled in Colorado 4 weekends this year and 3 times come home a winner. Certainly not a scientific indicator, but much better than the results I've had in Iowa, Kansas, Missouri and Nevada.

To those who consider it ridiculous to think biased dice could be in the casinos favor, pay attention to where the money is. You don't often see much money on the don't side, nor on the horn bets. And I don't believe many players change their playing strategy to take advantage of a preponderance of one number or another. A few times long ago I would switch from Pass/Come to Don't Pass/Don't Come and the results were almost always bad, so I don't do that anymore.

As for cards, I've seen them break out new decks and count them down. So what? Once they go in the shuffler, you'll never see them all face up again.

Quote: Headlock

pay attention to where the money is. You don't often see much money on the don't side, nor on the horn bets. And I don't believe many players change their playing strategy to take advantage of a preponderance of one number or another. A few times long ago I would switch from Pass/Come to Don't Pass/Don't Come and the results were almost always bad, so I don't do that anymore.

To what would you attribute the imbalance of money on pass and don't pass?

Quote: Headlock

To those who consider it ridiculous to think biased dice could be in the casinos favor, pay attention to where the money is. You don't often see much money on the don't side, nor on the horn bets. And I don't believe many players change their playing strategy to take advantage of a preponderance of one number or another. A few times long ago I would switch from Pass/Come to Don't Pass/Don't Come and the results were almost always bad, so I don't do that anymore.

Did you check out page 6 of this thread and boymimbo's excellent analysis? If the bosses don't do math well, I have a hard time believing they'd be able to figure out how to weight the dice to give the house an edge, when they already have one. But let's put that argument aside and assume that the people in charge are math experts. The only one that might make sense (based on your Pass>Don't Pass assumption) is to balance 1 die on the 1 and 1 die on the 6. Perhaps this is why there are FIVE dice. You have a good chance of picking both dice that are calibrated to the same side, as in both 1 or both 6, meaning you'll have LESS 7s. So here's my question. You have 5 dice. You want to make them unbalanced to favor the house more than they already do. What do you do to each of the five dice? I'm not asking rhetorically; I'd like to know how it would be mathematically possible to get more out of the player with 5 dice that you can manipulate. If we can prove or disprove the math here as a group, we will be closer to knowing whether the house can cheat by putting in weighted dice.

Quote: cclub79

Did you check out page 6 of this thread and boymimbo's excellent analysis? If the bosses don't do math well, I have a hard time believing they'd be able to figure out how to weight the dice to give the house an edge (when they already have one). The only one that might make sense (based on your Pass>Don't Pass assumption) is to balance 1 die on the 1 and 1 die on the 6. Perhaps this is why there are FIVE dice. You have a good chance of picking both dice that are calibrated to the same side, as in both 1 or both 6, meaning you'll have LESS 7s. So here's my question. You have 5 dice. You want to make them unbalanced to favor the house more than they already do. What do you do to each of the five dice? I'm not asking rhetorically; I'd like to know how it would be mathematically possible to get more out of the player with 5 dice that you can manipulate. If we can prove or disprove the math here as a group, we will be closer to knowing whether the house can cheat by putting in weighted dice.

Off topic again. Does the gaming commission check the dice or the cards while in play?
Edited:
Sorry, my reply was a bit terse and I didn't mean it that way. I would lean more to the possibility of the boxman switching one die for another on a stick change or die off the table.

Quote: cclub79

Did you check out page 6 of this thread and boymimbo's excellent analysis? If the bosses don't do math well, I have a hard time believing they'd be able to figure out how to weight the dice to give the house an edge, when they already have one. But let's put that argument aside and assume that the people in charge are math experts. The only one that might make sense (based on your Pass>Don't Pass assumption) is to balance 1 die on the 1 and 1 die on the 6. Perhaps this is why there are FIVE dice. You have a good chance of picking both dice that are calibrated to the same side, as in both 1 or both 6, meaning you'll have LESS 7s. So here's my question. You have 5 dice. You want to make them unbalanced to favor the house more than they already do. What do you do to each of the five dice? I'm not asking rhetorically; I'd like to know how it would be mathematically possible to get more out of the player with 5 dice that you can manipulate. If we can prove or disprove the math here as a group, we will be closer to knowing whether the house can cheat by putting in weighted dice.

As far as that goes, the casino could put in biased "Don't" dice if a preponderance of money was being bet on the Pass Line, and could put in biased "Do" dice to destroy a single big Don't Pass bettor.