Casinos don't cheat.....prove it.

Or at least prove there is a deterrent.

I posed a question in an earlier thread asking whether anyone had knowledge of gaming control checking dice or cards. This was the only comment.

q=SanchoPanza]Before the tables open for the day, I've seen CCC personnel in Atlantic City walking around as the calipers were being deployed. It's not a big deal. And it's probably more in the casinos' interest to have unbiased dice in the event that sharp-eyed customers might pick up on some anomaly.

Who are CCC personnel?

I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who witnessed gaming control snatching the dice off the table and checking them right there. If I am ever lucky enough to see gaming control in a casino (and so far I have not been lucky) I plan to ask for identification and call their office to confirm they don't work for the casino.

Has anyone ever seen gaming control check the dice or the cards? Any first-hand knowledge? Any gaming commission readers out there?

I have watched the routine for introducing new cards hundreds of times. The pit boss opens new decks right there at the table, and the dealer fans them out and methodically counts them down, making sure no cards are missing. (I don't play craps so don't know that process.) Too many people -- including low level employees and card makers -- would have to be in on the conspiracy for it to work.

Deck-fixing simply doesn't happen at mainstream, reputable casinos, so you can get off that horse.

Silly boy ...

There is no porcelain tea pot in orbit around mars. Prove it ...

You can't?

I guess there must be one.

--Dorothy

Quote: Headlock

Who are CCC personnel?

The Casino Control Commission, Jersey's answer to the NGC.

My only reason to believe that it doesn't happen is that most employees, everywhere, are drones. You can't get drones to care enough to get them to cheat. If you ORDER them to cheat, they'll quit; too much risk for no reward. (If they get caught, you think they'll get backed up? They know better.) Most people, even friendly, intelligent, competent people, want to go in, punch the clock, do the job, and punch out, so that they can leave and become a human being again.

In every NJ casino, there's a CCC booth that's always manned. There's nothing stopping you from going up and asking questions.

The CCC, is a commission appointed by the governor. The staff in the CCC booths in the casinos, are just ordinary state employees.

It would surprise me to learn that there wasn't a similar booth with state or federal employees in every casino in the nation - or at least the ones that have table games. (I can't see it in those little slot machine parlors scattered all over Nevada...)

FYI: This topic got my curiosity piqued, so I did some surfing. There's lots of interesting reading at http://www.nigc.gov/ - the National Indian Gaming Commission.



On a side note, a few years ago, NJ had a state budget crisis and all non essential services got shutdown, including the CCC, This, despite the fact that the casinos pay the state much more than the CCC staff's salaries. The stupidity of that rule got changed immediately after the budget crisis got resolved.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

In every NJ casino, there's a CCC booth that's always manned. There's nothing stopping you from going up and asking questions.

The CCC, is a commission appointed by the governor. The staff in the CCC booths in the casinos, are just ordinary state employees.

It would surprise me to learn that there wasn't a similar booth with state or federal employees in every casino in the nation - or at least the ones that have table games. (I can't see it in those little slot machine parlors scattered all over Nevada...)

FYI: This topic got my curiosity piqued, so I did some surfing. There's lots of interesting reading at http://www.nigc.gov/ - the National Indian Gaming Commission.



On a side note, a few years ago, NJ had a state budget crisis and all non essential services got shutdown, including the CCC, This, despite the fact that the casinos pay the state much more than the CCC staff's salaries. The stupidity of that rule got changed immediately after the budget crisis got resolved.

I read a bit about the CCC. It appears the Division of Gaming Enforcement enforces the gaming laws and regulations. Does anyone know if other gaming control entities maintain a presence in casinos as the CCC does in NJ?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

In every NJ casino, there's a CCC booth that's always manned. There's nothing stopping you from going up and asking questions.

Like its big brother in Nevada, the New Jersey Gaming Control Board is a paper tiger.

I was at a crap table at the GarbageCana in Atlantic City several years ago. The table had been winning--BIG. The shooter had a point of eight. He shot the dice---and the dice went behind the dealer's chip stacks, Only three of us players could see the result--five-three, winner on the line! The three of us cheered while everyone else strained to see. The STICKMAN THEN CALLED "SEVEN-OUT" and HIT THE DICE WITH HIS STICK, "destroying the dice"!! The dealers then swooped up several thousand dollars' worth of bets. Of course, the three of us screamed bloody murder. We wound up stomping over to the little booth where the Gaming agent sat. We explained what had happened, and demanded action. He refused. We demanded that the casino surveillance tapes be examined. He refused. We demanded to see casino mangement. He refused to even try to talk to them. The upshot was that we returned to the table, demanded to see the tapes and/or the casino manager, and were ultimately thrown out, after about 45 minutes of fruitless effort.

The guy in the booth might as well be dead, or wearing a clown suit.

NJ is the only gaming jurisdiction that has a live (or dead) representative on site. For all the good it does.

I thought some other reasoning (on another thread) for casino cheating was fairly reasonable (I'm not sure who made it) that many (a lot, here and there?) businesses can be found cheating their customers. (crime reports). From everything to dry cleaners to bankers. Does someone need me to prove it? I will do it with Google news archives, but only if you pay me $10,000 for going to the effort. : ) Otherwise, I do nothing!

Really, though, doesn't it become sort of a 1000 lemmings argument(TM)? We see that 1000 lemmings walk off a cliff, but my lemming is the exception. Why? Why is the casino industry the exception? If that's a bad logic argument, then explain "logically" why?

Okay, I'll answer my own challenge -- sure but many (probably most) businesses don't have strict mechanisms set up to monitor them? But on the other hand, someone (I assume) was suppose to be watching Wall Street and look what happened there.

(However, I myself, only play at the fair casinos. Don't think so. Well, prove it then.)

(also file under: police sometimes lie, politicians sometimes tell the truth, it's rarely an all or nothing thing)

I also would like to find money sometimes growing on trees, but so far, no luck. I remain hopeful.

Quote: Headlock

I read a bit about the CCC. It appears the Division of Gaming Enforcement enforces the gaming laws and regulations. Does anyone know if other gaming control entities maintain a presence in casinos as the CCC does in NJ?

I have first hand experience with the Indiana Gaming Commission. I was playing Ultimate Texas Hold'em at Hollywood Casino in Lawrenceburg, IN. I had asked earlier on if Surrender was offered (throw away a hand with bad kickers, when the board has 3-of-a-kind of better and still win the bonus.) The staff said yes; well a shift change and crew change later, and the answer was all of a sudden, NO!

I called the casino manager, who sided with the floor personnel. I demanded to speak with a Gaming commission rep, who informed me that he would look at the rules. I held up the game for an hour (ok I was the only one there, but still would not bet anything until I had a resolved answer.)

He came back about 20 minutes later (after waiting 40 minutes already), and he said that I was right, and they would be refunding me my money. I proceeded to play, and I think lose, but that's beside the point.